HNGN: Planned Parenthood's Top Doctor Caught On Video Discussing The Sale Of Aborted Fetus Body Parts

[PeterMP]

I get that, Peter.

Personally, I'm not so much caught up in the "for profit" part of it.

I think for most people it's the language. It's uncomfortable. But it's why we say things like 'procedure' and 'tissue'.

Certainly part of it is the idea that body parts are sold, even if it's not for profit.

 

Yes, and they could have made that point by releasing the whole video initially, but instead they did what they did.

 

I think most Americans still think in general abortion is wrong and that abortion should be rare.  I'm not sure the people running Planned Parenthood agree, and I think that's concerning.

 

(Looking, Zguy is correct.  They have released the whole video for the first one, but only after creating the original hub bub and Planned Parenthood was already having to make corrections.)

[ExoDus84]

Yes, agreed. Yes, we know its edited. It takes things said out of context by removing some statements which sought to clarify or disclaim.

 

So I edited your post to take what you said out of context. In this new version, you completely agree with what he said. See the effect that a little editing can have on how a statement reads, and thus how it will be interpreted?

 

This whole "undercover" bull**** is a hoax, more or less. It's fraud, as far as I'm concerned.

[PeterMP]

I'm not getting into a eugenics argument because that is far from my point. My point is simple to understand in the sense that we have very few protections for women getting pregnant where they can sustain their financial and social livelihood after childbirth. 

 

The best example I can give is from my own field (academia).

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2013/06/female_academics_pay_a_heavy_baby_penalty.html

 

 

 

It's easy to vilify the choice of getting an abortion. But really the heart of the problem is that pregnancy and childbirth affect both genders differently and we have few protections in place that prevent women from being penalized for getting pregnant, especially if they want successful careers. I'm making an assumption but I strongly believe that you'll see abortion rates go down, and maybe even peoples opinion flip if we improve workplace protections for pregnancy/childbirth and expand maternity/paternity benefits.

 

Our societal views on the value of maternity and childbirth can summed up quite nicely by this:

 

http://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/parental_2008_09.pdf

 

 

If there is a desire to protect the unborn, start with making life easier for thoshttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24402590ewho will carry them for 9 months.

 

Given the potential mental health and substance issues that seem sometimes to be associated with abortion (e.g. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23553240),I'm not sure your argument with respect to abortion is correct.

 

What are the "costs" of an abortion vs. child bearing?

 

For most people, is it really better to go through an abortion than have the child (which seems to be an implicit assumption in your argument)?

 

Your argument essentially seems to assume there is no long term penalty with respect to having an abortion, and I'm not at all sure that's the case.

 

Especially if you consider it is possible in many cases to give the child up for adoption (which realistically probably has its own "costs").

 

I think your statement could have been better limited by simply leaving it at pregnancy.  Pregnancy affects the two sexes differently.

 

The effects are different if the child is born vs. aborted, but in either case the sexes are different.

 

With that in mind, planned pregnancy is a better option than planned parenthood.  That also then eliminates your issue.

 

Given the recent videos, I'm not sure that planned parenthood is in a good position to fill that role.

 

(In general, though I understand and agree with your idea of better supporting mothers and evening out the burden, and I think that is something that is slowly happening.

 

**EDIT***

 

After doing some more looking, I'm less sure.  If you look at a country like Sweden, which has very good and more even parental leave laws.

 

http://www.npr.org/sections/babyproject/2011/08/09/139121410/parental-leave-the-swedes-are-the-most-generous

 

They seem to have a large number of abortions.

 

They have a higher abortion rate, a larger percentage of abortions, and a higher abortion ratio (obviously, those 3 numbers are all related) than the US.

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/ab-unitedstates.html

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/ab-sweden.html

[Zguy28]

Booby Jindal has pulled Planned Parenthood from Medicaid funding in his state.

 

You cannot make this **** up.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/health/bobby-jindal-cuts-medicaid-funding-to-planned-125852338057.html

Does PP actually do the mamograms now? I remember a while back them claiming cancer screenings being provided, but they actually were just referrals.

[grego]

So I edited your post to take what you said out of context. In this new version, you completely agree with what he said. See the effect that a little editing can have on how a statement reads, and thus how it will be interpreted?

This whole "undercover" bull**** is a hoax, more or less. It's fraud, as far as I'm concerned.

Exodus- what, in your opinion, was different about the full first video compared to the initial edited one?

[PeterMP]

Does PP actually do the mamograms now? I remember a while back them claiming cancer screenings being provided, but they actually were just referrals.

 

There are ways to do cancer screenings that are not mamograms.  It is possible to not do mamograms, but still conduct (some) cancer screenings.

[Xameil]

There are ways to do cancer screenings that are not mamograms. It is possible to not do mamograms, but still conduct (some) cancer screenings.

Yup and I offer my breast cancer screenings free of charge if you meet certain.....prerequisites

[Zguy28]

Yup and I offer my breast cancer screenings free of charge if you meet certain.....prerequisites

Ha! That's what I tell my wife all the time.

[Slateman]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/aug/13/trojan-horse-argument-planned-parenthood-videos

Nothing in the videos can indicate that PP has broken the law

[twa]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/aug/13/trojan-horse-argument-planned-parenthood-videos

Nothing in the videos can indicate that PP has broken the law

 

the latest one alleges(former employee) that they donate organs w/o patient consent in all cases, as well as share medical information.

 

both seem over the line IF TRUE

[twa]

Human tissue firm cuts ties with Planned Parenthood after videos

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/08/planned-parenthood-fetal-tissue-company-cuts-ties-videos-121371.html#ixzz3ipcRluIJ

[Zguy28]

I Don’t Know if I’m Pro-Choice After Planned Parenthood Videos

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/08/10/i-don-t-know-if-i-m-pro-choice-anymore.html

 

For the last 30 years, I’ve supported abortion rights. This year may be different.

The only thing I hate more than talking about abortion is writing about it. It’s no accident that, in 2,000 columns over a quarter-century, I have never—ever—written about abortion. I’ve avoided the topic like a root canal. 

But that is getting harder to do with the release of what are now five gruesome, albeit edited, undercover videos by The Center for Medical Progress depicting doctors and other top officials of Planned Parenthood discussing, and even laughing about, the harvesting of baby organs, as casually as some folks talk about the weather.

It’s jarring to see doctors acting as negotiators as they dicker over the price of a fetal liver, heart, or brain, and then talk about how they meticulously go to the trouble of not crushing the most valuable body parts. This practice is perfectly legal, and for some people, it is just a business. With millions of abortions each year in America, business is good.

 

Rest at link

[visionary]

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2015/08/arkansas-governor-defund-planned-parenthood

Arkansas Is the Latest State to Defund Planned Parenthood

 

Following in the footsteps of Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal and Alabama Gov. Robert Bentley, Arkansas Gov. Asa Hutchinson has directed his state's Department of Human Services to terminate its Medicaid contract with Planned Parenthood. The termination will be effective in 30 days.

 

In a statement, Hutchinson said, "It is apparent that after the recent revelations on the actions of Planned Parenthood, that this organization does not represent the values of the people of our state and Arkansas is better served by terminating any and all existing contracts with them. This includes their affiliated organization, Planned Parenthood of Arkansas and Eastern Oklahoma."

 

The announcement comes in the wake of outrage over heavily-edited sting videos released by anti-abortion activists alleging a litany of offenses by Planned Parenthood. The Obama administration contends that cutting Planned Parenthood off from Medicaid funds breaks federal law.

[mistertim]

"I don't like what this organization does with the private funds it receives for abortion services, therefore I am going to take away their government funding that is used for women's health services such as cancer screening, STD testing, contraception and has nothing to do with their abortion services* "

 

 

 

 

* Because I am a worthless political hack looking for any opportunity to rile up my base and impose my personal beliefs on others via government intervention, while simultaneously purporting to be a "small government conservative".

[bcl05]

The callous language is the least objectionable part of the story, for me. As I've mentioned here before, I'm a physician. My particular specialty is medical genetics, with a particular expertise/research interest in newborn metabolic diseases. One of the more interesting but difficult parts of the job is that we get called fairly often to assist in the autopsies of stillborn babies or miscarried fetuses to help try to identify if there is a genetic syndrome present to help know recurrence risk. The language we use in those settings is necessarily fairly frank and clinical. If I put the emotional investment and engagement into those babies as I do with children in my non-professional life, I would have burned out ages ago.

In my first year or so after training, I threw myself into the job with everything I could. Many of my patients don't make it, and my involvement all the families is very intimate. That first year I went to every funeral, visited people in their homes, and more. I lived and died a little every day at work. By the end of that year, I was so burnt out that I was not a great husband or father at home. I committed to being the best doc I could be - but in a way that I could sustain for the length of a career. I have to distance myself from my patients. I'm a better person and doctor now because of it.

I admire abortion docs for what they do - help people with emotionally intense decisions and procedures that are never easy. They work tirelessly and thanklessly to protect a right they believe in. They do so in an environment with constant protests and attacks on their character. Of course they need to use some cold and coarse language - I don't know how they could get through the day without it.

[DallasCowboyFan156]

If PP is in it for the money they are doing it all wrong. $30-100?

 

Your Body Part Price List: You're Worth More Dead Than Alive (Infographic) : Discovery News

 

 

 

After seeing this I'm thinking the correct choice for life insurance is just to tell my family to cut my liver out and sell it on the black market when I die. Boom! Instant $150k policy

[Larry]

After seeing this I'm thinking the correct choice for life insurance is just to tell my family to cut my liver out and sell it on the black market when I die. Boom! Instant $150k policy

I hear it goes well with fava beans and a nice chianti.

[DogofWar1]

I'm disappointed that funding cuts are coming before investigations are complete.  If you're going to launch an attack on PP, there should at least be some sort of factual wrongdoing to back it up.  However, I am not particularly surprised that the governors that are defunding PP are doing so without positive investigation results.

 

All the investigations so far have come up negative on criminal conduct (http://www.newsweek.com/planned-parenthood-idaho-butch-otter-no-investigation-363129) and Idaho has seemingly chosen not to investigate due to lack of evidence.  There are a few investigations still going on, but nothing back yet.

 

If you're conducting a witch hunt, at least make sure there's something resembling evidence of the existence of a witch.

 

After seeing this I'm thinking the correct choice for life insurance is just to tell my family to cut my liver out and sell it on the black market when I die. Boom! Instant $150k policy

Probably want to edit out that picture.  Rule 11.  The Mods are generally nice about that rule once or twice a day, but don't tempt them, and we do have mods popping in this thread and posting now and then.

[Predicto]

I'm disappointed that funding cuts are coming before investigations are complete.  If you're going to launch an attack on PP, there should at least be some sort of factual wrongdoing to back it up.  However, I am not particularly surprised that the governors that are defunding PP are doing so without positive investigation results.

 

All the investigations so far have come up negative on criminal conduct (http://www.newsweek.com/planned-parenthood-idaho-butch-otter-no-investigation-363129) and Idaho has seemingly chosen not to investigate due to lack of evidence.  There are a few investigations still going on, but nothing back yet.

 

If you're conducting a witch hunt, at least make sure there's something resembling evidence of the existence of a witch.

 

 

 

Why?   This strategy worked for killing ACORN.   Why not do it again?  

[DogofWar1]

Why?   This strategy worked for killing ACORN.   Why not do it again?  

 

Well, you got me there.  The strategy works, unfortunately.

[Zguy28]

Planned Parenthood fires back

A new ad blitz warns of a government shutdown, and an executive says critics are really after abortion rights.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/08/planned-parenthood-counterattack-121460.html#ixzz3jAIXMrxm

 

 

Planned Parenthood, under assault from conservatives and at risk of losing its government funding, is firing back at critics with a new ad campaign and alleging their real aim is to outlaw abortion.

After weeks of bad PR over videos of its executives discussing fetal tissue and organs, the group is unveiling a six-figure broadcast and cable ad buy Tuesday that will run in the states of four vulnerable Republican senators, according to details obtained by POLITICO. The lawmakers could be key to deciding whether a fight over the group’s funding triggers a federal government shutdown this fall.

 

Yes, nothing to see here, keep believing they care about your health and not the bottom line $$.

[PF Chang]

Are they wrong in saying that all of this outrage is really about trying to outlaw abortion by any means possible?

 

Is it unreasonable to criticize politicians who would shut down the entire government if PP is funded?

 

I also have no idea why you are fixated on PP "caring about your health." It is irrelevant. I don't think the hospital deeply cares about me either -- I am another patient of millions where patient is becoming increasingly synonymous with "customer." 

 

What I care about is that they have funding to provide necessary services. 

[twa]

how could it be about abortion when we are assured none of the federal funding goes toward it?

[PF Chang]

how could it be about abortion when we are assured none of the federal funding goes toward it?

 

Because if the whole organization shuts down they won't be providing abortions either. But I think you already knew the answer to your question  

[Larry]

Planned Parenthood fires back

A new ad blitz warns of a government shutdown, and an executive says critics are really after abortion rights.

Well, they are.