HNGN: Planned Parenthood's Top Doctor Caught On Video Discussing The Sale Of Aborted Fetus Body Parts

[twa]

nuposse ,most have more than some potential, unless killed.

 

Negligent manslaughter is not based on can , I'm good with actions not deliberately targeting them for death.....I can even go along with that at times.

 

seems a odd definition of life,but humans are odd.

[PleaseBlitz]

i dont disagree with this at all (i told larry precisely the same thing above )

 

i just dont know how many people are caught up in the profiting part of it. 

 

when i read, all day and every day, that the videos are heavily edited, i'm waiting for something a little more than that.otherwise, i recognize its yet another yahoo-type headline designed to make you think something before youve actually read it.

 

but, to be fair, my BS detector goes off equally on conservatives as well as liberals. they are all lying  distorting the truth when their lips are moving. i only laugh when true believers think this is exclusive to one side.

 

 

Yep, I agree.  From what I understand, the video was heavily cut (obviously) and the transcriptions were not accurate.  Meaning, when the audio quality was bad (which it often was), the CMP just made the subtitles say whatever they wanted people to read.  Put another way, they made up complete bull****.

 

So, basically, those videos are a less funny version of bad lip reading.  Lets enjoy one now.

 

[nuposse87]

nuposse ,most have more than some potential, unless killed.

 

Negligent manslaughter is not based on can , I'm good with actions not deliberately targeting them for death.....I can even go along with that at times.

 

seems a odd definition of life,but humans are odd.

 

Their potential is based upon their parasite relationship with their mother, at a certain point such a relationship isn't necessary, which is viability to me. We don't call viruses alive since they need a host in order to realize their potential. They cannot survive without a host. I don't attribute human rights to something just because it has some tissue development. Molar pregnancies can have tissue development but most certainly are not human.

 

Don't quite get what you mean on the manslaughter premise...but there is a lot I don't quite get from yours posts lol. 

[twa]

they are clearly human beings though rather than a virus or Molar pregnancies....ask the labs using their organs .

 

their potential is not based on the mother, though clearly we allow them to end that potential. 

[nuposse87]

they are clearly human beings though rather than a virus or Molar pregnancies....ask the labs using their organs .

 

their potential is not based on the mother, though clearly we allow them to end that potential. 

 

Actually their potential is completely dependent on the mother. They cannot survive without her. Had we the artificial ability to develop a fetus to term sans a mother in a laboratory setting I'd say you have a point... but that isn't exactly doable YET. 

 

They have the genetic makeup of humans, but they do not possess the qualities of an independent life form until a certain point in development. Until that point, they hold a parasitic relationship with the mother. 

[Predicto]

they are clearly human beings though rather than a virus or Molar pregnancies....ask the labs using their organs .

 

their potential is not based on the mother, though clearly we allow them to end that potential. 

 

 

They are only "clearly human beings" if you have decided that they are.   There is no scientific definition of "human being" for this purpose.  

 

You can't waive away this fundamental controversy by simply appropriating a  definition of human being to negate the views on the other side.   It only convinces people who already agree with you.

[PleaseBlitz]

What never seems to be discussed in the pro-life/pro-choice free for all, is the usefulness of fetal tissue in research.  

 

http://www.usnews.com/news/science/news/articles/2015/07/29/human-fetal-tissue-long-used-for-variety-of-medical-studies

 

(More at link)

 

Some basic facts about fetal tissue in research:

 

WHAT IS FETAL TISSUE USED FOR?

 

Tissue from elective abortions and miscarriages is used for a wide variety of purposes. Scientists who want to regenerate organs and tissues may use it to learn how the human body makes them in the first place. Others look for defects in early development that can cause disease or miscarriage, or study normal development, which can guide therapeutic strategies. The tissue is also used to learn how medicines or toxins affect a fetus.

 

IS USING FETAL TISSUE A NEW IDEA?

 

Hardly. Scientists have worked with it since the 1930s. The 1954 Nobel Prize in medicine was awarded for work with fetal tissue that led to developing a vaccine against polio. The National Institutes of Health spent $76 million on human fetal tissue research in fiscal 2014.

 

WHAT DISEASES ARE BEING STUDIED TODAY?

 

AIDS and muscular dystrophy, for example. Some experimental treatments for spinal cord injury and macular degeneration involve transplanting fetal cells into patients. And European researchers recently began a study of putting fetal tissue into patients' brains to treat Parkinson's disease, a strategy that has had mixed results in the past.

 

 

So, personally, I am against AIDS and MS and Parkinson's disease and would like to see those things wiped out, just like polio.  It sucks, but abortions happen (every day).  They aren't going to stop no matter how many bibles quotes you recite and they aren't going to stop if you outlaw fetal tissue research.  They certainly won't stop if congress defunds Planned Parenthood, they will increase.

[Larry]

they are clearly human beings though rather than a virus or Molar pregnancies....ask the labs using their organs .

They are clearly human fetuses. Ask the labs using their organs.

Actually their potential is completely dependent on the mother. They cannot survive without her. Had we the artificial ability to develop a fetus to term sans a mother in a laboratory setting I'd say you have a point... but that isn't exactly doable YET. 

 

They have the genetic makeup of humans, but they do not possess the qualities of an independent life form until a certain point in development. Until that point, they hold a parasitic relationship with the mother. 

 

Now, I would advise against becoming too committed to the "self sufficiency is a requirement for personhood" position, though.  I will point out that lots of people who we fully recognize as people, are not self sufficient, at various times in their lives. 

[nuposse87]

They are clearly human fetuses. Ask the labs using their organs.

 

Now, I would advise against becoming too committed to the "self sufficiency is a requirement for personhood" position, though.  I will point out that lots of people who we fully recognize as people, are not self sufficient, at various times in their lives. 

 

I am speaking to metabolic self sufficiency. I understand there is a can of worms with people who are brain dead or in a perpetual state of coma... or people who NEED artificial ventilation in order to stay alive. But in most cases, those people were physiologically normal until something predisposes them to w/e it is that is afflicting them. A fetus is not physiologically able to sustain itself until a certain point... that is my distinction. Admit tingly there are many gray areas still :/ I'm still trying to understand all factors involved. 

[twa]

Actually their potential is completely dependent on the mother. They cannot survive without her. Had we the artificial ability to develop a fetus to term sans a mother in a laboratory setting I'd say you have a point... but that isn't exactly doable YET. 

 

They have the genetic makeup of humans, but they do not possess the qualities of an independent life form until a certain point in development. Until that point, they hold a parasitic relationship with the mother. 

 

 

potential is not determined by survival from homicide,nor dependent on it....be it adult or fetal 

 

some stay parasitic all thru life.

 

They are clearly human fetuses. Ask the labs using their organs.

 

 

a fetus is human and a being

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/being

[twa]

What never seems to be discussed in the pro-life/pro-choice free for all, is the usefulness of fetal tissue in research.  

 

http://www.usnews.com/news/science/news/articles/2015/07/29/human-fetal-tissue-long-used-for-variety-of-medical-studies

 

(More at link)

 

 

So, personally, I am against AIDS and MS and Parkinson's disease and would like to see those things wiped out, just like polio.  It sucks, but abortions happen (every day).  They aren't going to stop no matter how many bibles quotes you recite and they aren't going to stop if you outlaw fetal tissue research.  They certainly won't stop if congress defunds Planned Parenthood, they will increase.

 

pretty sure I discussed it when the thread started, and certainly see putting the condemned to good use as a +.

 

is there some evidence PP does birth control better than other providers?

 

http://thefederalist.com/2015/06/10/the-real-reason-planned-parenthood-trashes-otc-birth-control/

[Zguy28]

They are clearly human fetuses. Ask the labs using their organs.

 

Now, I would advise against becoming too committed to the "self sufficiency is a requirement for personhood" position, though.  I will point out that lots of people who we fully recognize as people, are not self sufficient, at various times in their lives. 

Clearly. That's why the latest video shows the PP person discussing how they cut off the babie's hands and feet so that the academic researcher's and interns don't freak out or can assuage their conscience through telling themselves "its not a human".

[Larry]

Clearly. That's why the latest video shows the PP person discussing how they cut off the babie's hands and feet so that the academic researcher's and interns don't freak out or can assuage their conscience through telling themselves "its not a human".

 

Right. 

 

Because clearly, every one of those medical researchers who are ordering human tissue samples, so that they can perform experiments on human tissue samples, thinks that they're getting dog tissue. 

 

Those medical researchers not really knowing what the word "human" means. 

[Zguy28]

Right. 

 

Because clearly, every one of those medical researchers who are ordering human tissue samples, so that they can perform experiments on human tissue samples, thinks that they're getting dog tissue. 

 

Those medical researchers not really knowing what the word "human" means. 

Not sure if you paid attention. But they said they cut off the hands and feet because basically the researchers freak out over intact fetal cadavers. They open the box and an intact baby is in there and they lose it. They make it more "human tissue" instead of a person so they can cope with the horror of what provided them the material.

[mistertim]

Not sure if you paid attention. But they said they cut off the hands and feet because basically the researchers freak out over intact fetal cadavers. They open the box and an intact baby is in there and they lose it. They make it more "human tissue" instead of a person so they can cope with the horror of what provided them the material.

And that, like it or not, is an essential part of the job. Same thing with people who do research and testing on animals and doctors who deal with horrible diseases and terminally ill patients...no matter how good the cause is they're working on, they HAVE to be able to distance themselves from that stuff. Otherwise they will go nuts and not last.

[nuposse87]

potential is not determined by survival from homicide,nor dependent on it....be it adult or fetal 

 

some stay parasitic all thru life.

 

 

a fetus is human and a being

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/being

 

You think a fetuses potential is independent of its mother? Please, take a zygote and culture it in a petri dish and see what becomes of it. All fetal life is completely dependent on the mother until a hazy point... which is why I argue 6-7 months as a line of demarcation. It cannot be ascribed rights as a biologically independent organism until that period.

[Predicto]

You think a fetuses potential is independent of its mother? Please, take a zygote and culture it in a petri dish and see what becomes of it. All fetal life is completely dependent on the mother until a hazy point... which is why I argue 6-7 months as a line of demarcation. It cannot be ascribed rights as a biologically independent organism until that period.

 

you aren't going to convince him either.

 

 

Because you are both right - from your point of view.   That's why abortion is the hardest ethical dilemma of our times.

[twa]

You think a fetuses potential is independent of its mother? Please, take a zygote and culture it in a petri dish and see what becomes of it. All fetal life is completely dependent on the mother until a hazy point... which is why I argue 6-7 months as a line of demarcation. It cannot be ascribed rights as a biologically independent organism until that period.

 

 

what does the law say becomes of it and why?

 

Potential can certainly be destroyed/ended,but it's potential is not dependent on the mother.

 

it's life continuing is ,but we can say the same for each of us....we live because someone doesn't kill us.

 

add

 

what is the potential for the overwhelming majority of fetuses?....barring someone tearing them in pieces or crushing thei skull ect.

[China]

Legal Problems Are Piling Up For The Activists Behind Abortion Videos

 

The Center for Medical Progress, an anti-abortion group whose hidden-camera videos have sparked a nationwide abortion fight, is facing some big legal problems, independent law experts say.

 

Over the past three years, CMP has surreptitiously videotaped employees of Planned Parenthood and StemExpress, a biomedical tissue firm, discussing costs of transferring fetal tissue to BioMax Procurement, a sham biomedical firm set up by CMP.

 

Last week, Planned Parenthood released an analysis finding that CMP misleadingly edited the videos, as well as transcripts of conversations. CMP’s founder, David Daleiden, vehemently denies any wrongdoing, but the group has received subpoenas for the complete videos from Arizona’s attorney general, with more likely coming from other states.

 

And that’s only the beginning of CMP’s legal problems. The activist group is facing promised invasion-of-privacy lawsuits, a federal case claiming conspiracy to defraud, and challenges to its IRS status as a nonprofit organization. Depending on how these cases shake out, Daleiden could be dealing with as little as a legal bill or as much as several years in prison, though the latter is unlikely.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[Elessar78]

It's just getting sad. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-gop-still-has-nothing-to-show-for-its-anti-planned-parenthood-campaign/2015/09/29/1c79bd02-66e9-11e5-9223-70cb36460919_story.html

 

Republicans tried to inoculate themselves against the inevitable “war on women” charges. Chaffetz admitted three Republican women to participate in the hearing (there is only one GOP woman on the panel) and he started his own remarks by emotionally invoking his wife’s work with breast-cancer patients. Rep. Tim Walberg (R-Mich.) thought it helpful to say that “I’m wearing a pink tie in solidarity with women’s health issues.” The majority dodged an awkward moment when Rep. Scott DesJarlais (R-Tenn.), a pro-life lawmaker who, according to court records, encouraged his wife and mistress to have abortions, yielded his time to a colleague.

[twa]

it's been sad

[Zguy28]

If Planned Parenthood Goes, Where Do Women Go?

 

The first thing to get clear is that Planned Parenthood actually doesn’t provide all that much for poor, vulnerable women — particularly if they don’t live in cities. Indeed, you may remember that, in wake of the Susan J. Komen defunding ridiculousness from a few years ago, lots of charges were thrown around about women losing out on mammograms. But it turns out that Planned Parenthood doesn’t even provide them. As Democrats for Life has pointed out numerous times in recent days, the number of local community health centers outnumber Planned Parenthood clinics ten to one. Rather than the one-size-fits-all franchise approach of Planned Parenthood, these community health centers nicely embody the principle of subsidiarity in responding to the diverse local needs of women — whether in the Bronx, rural Kansas, or southern California.

 

Indeed, these community health centers provide everything Planned Parenthood does, and more, but without doing abortions. Instead of offering a simply negative message of defunding Planned Parenthood, we ought to focus on redirecting the half-billion dollars per year to these nonviolent community health centers. This may be difficult if we are in bed with a Republican party, already somewhat embarrassed by its association with the pro-life movement, which would prefer to keep the government out of this kind of funding. But especially if we care about poor women in cities, where Planned Parenthood primarily serves, we should funnel that money toward community health centers in those areas, and resist the temptation to roll over for small-government conservatives. A consistent concern for the vulnerable — including mothers and their prenatal children — requires nothing less.

 

— Charles C. Camosy (@nohiddenmagenta) is an associate professor of theological and social ethics at Fordham University and the author of Beyond the Abortion Wars: A Way Forward for a New Generation.

 

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/42178/planned-parenthood-womens-health

 

I can definitely get on board with this particular opinion.

 

 

***********************************************

Comparison data on PP and FQHC's.

https://www.lozierinstitute.org/planned-parenthood-and-federally-qualified-health-centers/

 

[Larry]

It's just getting sad.

From the article:

 

This would appear to justify Richards’s contention that the controversy “isn’t about Planned Parenthood. It’s about allowing women in this country . . . to make other decisions about their pregnancies.”

As if to confirm Richards’s suspicion, 28 minutes after the hearing ended, lawmakers went to the House floor to vote on legislation restricting abortion — for the 14th time this year.

---

I can definitely get on board with this particular opinion.

 

 

***********************************************

Comparison data on PP and FQHC's.

Excellent point.

Planned Parenthood only represents a mere 10% of the places providing these services. And they pretty much only are placed to serve poor women in cities.

 

An excellent reason why we need a federal law banning them for providing services which the government is willing to pay for.

[twa]

They are not being banned ,just not directly funded by the govt....I know that is a hard concept.

 

When women's choice involves another's life society has a responsibility......or some of us certainly see it.

 

Refusing the reasonable offer of expanding funding of local providers that offer even more services demonstrates a abdication of society's responsibility.

 

How is women's health a responsibility of society but not protecting the life of another?

 

it is either both or none.

[China]

So did they mention the Satanic temples in the Planned Parenthood facilities?

 

Televangelist: Satanic temples are hidden in Planned Parenthood clinics as ‘legal cover’ for child sacrifice

 

Pastor Jim Bakker and the guests on his show asserted this week that Satanic worship services were taking place in some Planned Parenthood clinics, which were being used a legal cover for the ritual sacrifice of children.

 

...

 

Wiles said that a former Satanist told him that he “performed 164 Satanic rituals inside of abortion clinics.”

“Absolutely!” Lori Bakker chimed in. “I can’t prove it because I wasn’t there… I will tell you, especially on Halloween, that many many many many Satanic rituals — abortion rituals — are performed. It’s the truth.”

 

“I’ve had women sit as close as Jim is to me, as you are to me, crying, screaming from their innermost being because they were in those Satanic rituals where their babies were aborted,” she insisted.

 

Wiles claimed that his former Satanist friend said that “sacrificing a human life is the greatest thing that they can do for Lucifer.”

 

“Because murder is illegal, they have to find a way to have a sacrifice that are human,” Wiles continued. “And so because America has abortion, therefore, their doing these human sacrifices in an abortion clinic because it gives them a legal covering.”

 

“The anti-christ spirit is loose,” Jim Bakker declared. “You know, I believe the first horse of the apocalypse is the Satanic — the white horse, this apocalyptic being is the spirit of anti-christ. And it is riding, this spirit is here.”

 

Click on the link for the full article and video