Going Commando Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 11 hours ago, Destino said: I hate to say it but politics are probably not helping. I won’t watch a sport because those athletes start pushing politics I agree with... but I’ll stop watching if they start pushing politics I dislike. The nba has gone as political as they could without having players run for office. People that disagree with those politics, and it’s a very large portion of the country, would find it hard to watch if they disagree. It’s also mostly men that vote republican, and mostly men that watch live sports. It doesn’t explain the rating being this low, but it likely contributes. You could probably parse the demography even more and say it's mostly white men, aged 30-60 who watch live sports, and yeah, a lot of that demography is alienated by the NBA's politics. It's kind of the cherry on top though, I think a lot of that demography has been alienated from the NBA fanbase well before the league veered into such outspokenly liberal politics. The NBA is popular with younger sports fans in large part because it's such a meme factory. But that pro-wrestling-esque culture and general lack of professionalism in the league is a turn off to that aforementioned demography, and as you pointed out, it's the one that owns cable subscriptions and watches live sports. The NBA is going to have to drastically change the way they broadcast their games IMO. The regional cable network model doesn't work any more. NBA fans are young and tons of them don't have cable subscriptions. The league is going to live or die with their ability to reach and monetize streaming viewers. Pirated streams of games have been popular around the world, and when piracy thrives, it means you've got a big service vacuum. League pass is going to have to be offered for a fairly cheap monthly subscription like Disney+ or something, and here's the big thing, it needs to not ****ing black out in market fans. That makes their streaming service incredibly niche. Doing it to protect the NBC Sports Washingtons of the world is just unbelievably stupid. I don't know how you transition the broadcasts to focus on in-market streamers, but it desperately needs to happen before the NBA has any chance of growing. Another big factor in the decline of NBA ratings was the lack of broad competitiveness in the league. That was a major turn off for me, and I'm still in the target market for the league. I think you and I are of the same mind that the NFL formula of parity and competitive balance creating 32 strong franchises dispersed throughout the media markets of the country is a much more resilient model than the NBA's. The league is going to have to find ways to enforce competitive balance and build 30 strong and discrete fanbases. And then they need to make sure those fans turn watching the games into an event like NFL fans do, and again, a big part of that is making sure they watch the games in a way the NBA can actually make money off of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 (edited) While politics certainly isn't helping ratings, I think the ability to binge watch shows and having so many entertainment choices these days hurts sports ratings. Especially for leagues that have really long seasons and really long playoffs. But I could be completely wrong. Personally, I wish players would stop complaining so damn much and the replays really ruin the flow of the game. They need to fix how that is done. Edited October 7, 2020 by Hersh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 (edited) People that hate the politics were already not watching. I think you have to start looking at the demographics that really watch the NBA on a consistent basis, and see whether or not it overlaps with the demographics largely affected by this pandemic (in terms of lingering illness, job loss, longer hours, etc). Then throw in the fact that people are dying, people know other people who have died (many of us in this thread have already lost people we loved and cared about). Sometimes, sports aren't a haven for that sort of thing. Then throw in cord cutting, Football season (college and pro), baseball being played, hockey being played, damn near everything being played. It's all a factor imo. Edited October 7, 2020 by Mr. Sinister 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skin'emAlive Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 I’d argue the golden state death lineup and subsequent live/dive by the 3 analytic started the drop. At the same time it became a better choice to shoot from almost mid court rather than 12’, flopping became another form of gamesmanship, and the hemorrhage of allstar players forcing their way on to other contenders continues to grow. These are the reasons fewer tune in now. Politics are a footnote. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 As far as what fans dislike, I think flopping and playing for the whistle are high on the list. I'm just not sure it stops anyone from watching. Soccer fans hate flopping too and yet no one flops like soccer players.... but the fans still watch. Personally I would really like to see some major rule changes with players jumping into defenders to get calls. It's just bad basketball. They aren't trying to score so much as get to the charity stripe. There's no flow to the game as it's constantly broken up by players standing around waiting for free throws. I still think the level of politics we're seeing this year is likely to impact ratings. Imagine if the court said "Blue Lives Matter" and players were wearing jerseys that read "Comply with Orders". Would any of you be able to watch? I'd be completely checked out. What they've done this year is just so exaggerated that anyone that disagrees with the messaging would find it impossible to tune in. I'm not saying they're wrong for doing it, but they're choosing to drive off any fans they might have had that are right wing. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 But I mean, players have been pretty outspoken for years now, really since Trayvon Martin was shot. "Shut up and dribble" was what, 2 or 3 years ago? And many players have taken to social media since to get active in their communities on a host of important issues that play out along racial lines. It's just hard for me to come up with a strong enough percentage that would get further turned off in an already socially conscious, global and super diverse game that's been fueled by urban/hip hop culture for at least 30 years. That's over a generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 1 minute ago, Mr. Sinister said: But I mean, players have been pretty outspoken for years now, really since Trayvon Martin was shot. "Shut up and dribble" was what, 2 or 3 years ago? And many players have taken to social media since to get active in their communities on a host of important issues that play out along racial lines. It's just hard for me to come up with a strong enough percentage that would get further turned off in an already socially conscious, global and super diverse game that's been fueled by urban/hip hop culture for at least 30 years. That's over a generation. There are some fans that are following the orders of their cult leader. These ****ing morons will actually do what Trump wants. Don't underestimate their craziness. Also, there are plenty of racist white people that still cheer for their own team, but their racism kicks into high gear when they see black people interfering with their entertainment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 LeBron will go down as a legend but the animus towards him is still out of this world. Although Jordan was hated on (The Last Dance portrayed this perfectly with the allure around him starting to fade with his behavior being more commonly known i.e. gambling, bashing his teammates, etc) it came nothing close to what LeBron had to go through. This guy is one of the best athletes of this generation yet has constantly had to put up with diving accusations, political accusations, etc. Why can't we just respect his greatness. "But he isn't that good." "But he'll never be Jordan" "RING CHASER" "BENEFICIARY OF CALLS" "DIVE / FLOP" "But his commentary on countries is hypocritical" "But crab dribble" On 10/7/2020 at 4:15 PM, Skin'emAlive said: I’d argue the golden state death lineup and subsequent live/dive by the 3 analytic started the drop. At the same time it became a better choice to shoot from almost mid court rather than 12’, flopping became another form of gamesmanship, and the hemorrhage of allstar players forcing their way on to other contenders continues to grow. These are the reasons fewer tune in now. Politics are a footnote. I have been adamant for years that GS ruined the game with the three pointer. That, and the implementation of freedom of movement which basically removed the hand check. **** you used to be able to slap a guy or hold him. Can't do that no more. That was REAL d. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skin'emAlive Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 The 3-point offense that the GS death lineup created turned the nba into a shooting exhibition. There’s no drama in the game anymore. Imo, the soul of basketball is lost now. I mean, we routinely have guards leading the team in rebounds. Defense is no longer an option. Rivalries are 100% dead. The second Stephenson joined up with Bron, all meaningful or meaningless rivalries died in the nba. 20 point leads mean nothing. There’s a lot causing the lack of interest. None of it is political 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 Definitely, a lot of it caused the decline in ratings and fans such as myself who have become casual Laker fans. The game is very difficult to watch in it's current version. Can't play defense so guys often jack up threes even if they haven't been falling all night, nobody fights or pushes each other anymore because they don't want another Malice in the Palace to happen, nobody throws shade or "hates" anyone anymore because we should all "love each other". Can't hand check anymore because of freedom of movement. Teams collude constantly to bring talent together for superteams (GS / Miami / Boston) and it is the ONLY way to win a title, thus making teams like the Wizards not even in consideration for championships. In the NBA, you have to buy a title. It is the only way. I don't mind the politics. I want to see the PASSION and the fire. I want to see teams legitimately hate each other. None of this buddy buddy ****. You saw a little of that in Boston Toronto when Tatum and the Celtics **** talked Nick Nurse a bit telling him to stay on the sideline or shut his mouth, but it's a lot rarer than the 2000's when Shaq and Kobe garnered legitimate hate from Kings fans. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 (edited) I wish I could watch the NBA like I used to. I dunno, I've watched bad baseball for a long time (Orioles fan) and bad football (WFT fan) for a long time, too. But the Wizards just killed any interest I have in the NBA. I remember the threads on here back in the day when Arenas was killing it, it was so much fun. In the last 10 years or so, my interest has waned completely on the NBA. Doesn't have to do with politics, doesn't have to do with any players, just...I dunno, something about the NBA hasn't felt right for awhile. And quite frankly, I don't know if the Wizards were suddenly a contender tomorrow (hilarious, I know) that I'd be all that into it. The thing is, I keep up on it, I watch the highlights, I read the news...I just have a really hard time watching an actual game, it doesn't keep my interest. But basketball as spectacle is great, they easily have the best offseason of any sport, and it's a couple steps above WWE for storylines. I'll try to watch tonight to see LeBron win a ring and still be 2nd to Jordan fight me but no guarantees. To @Mr. Sinister's point above, ratings being down are probably a perfect storm of things. As much as I don't watch the NBA anymore, I'd still like to see it happy and thriving. And to @stevemcqueen1's point, **** blackouts. Antiquated bull****tery that has no place in the landscape today, and that goes for all sports. Want to piss off any segment of your potential fanbase? Blackout rules! FOH. 18 minutes ago, ixcuincle said: Definitely, a lot of it caused the decline in ratings and fans such as myself who have become casual Laker fans. The game is very difficult to watch in it's current version. Can't play defense so guys often jack up threes even if they haven't been falling all night, nobody fights or pushes each other anymore because they don't want another Malice in the Palace to happen, nobody throws shade or "hates" anyone anymore because we should all "love each other". Can't hand check anymore because of freedom of movement. Teams collude constantly to bring talent together for superteams (GS / Miami / Boston) and it is the ONLY way to win a title, thus making teams like the Wizards not even in consideration for championships. In the NBA, you have to buy a title. It is the only way. I don't mind the politics. I want to see the PASSION and the fire. I want to see teams legitimately hate each other. None of this buddy buddy ****. You saw a little of that in Boston Toronto when Tatum and the Celtics **** talked Nick Nurse a bit telling him to stay on the sideline or shut his mouth, but it's a lot rarer than the 2000's when Shaq and Kobe garnered legitimate hate from Kings fans. Fair points. 80s and 90s, Lakers and Celtics straight up hating each other, Pistons and Bulls, Knicks and Bulls, everyone hating Isaiah Thomas...none of this friendly crap. Disagree a bit with the superteam colluding...while it certainly happens, you do get a team like Milwaukee that all of a sudden becomes interesting because of one transformative player. No one gave a Frenchman's **** about the Bucks before Giannis, no one will after he leaves, but he makes them a team you have to deal with, until the playoffs anyway. But that's because they drafted him, not because he was a great FA that went there. Edited October 9, 2020 by Spaceman Spiff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 Let’s face it...Shaquille O’Neal repeatedly elbowing Matt Geiger in the throat all night is good for ratings. And the league just doesn’t have that anymore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said: Let’s face it...Shaquille O’Neal repeatedly elbowing Matt Geiger in the throat all night is good for ratings. And the league just doesn’t have that anymore. Nothing wrong with getting dirty in the paint. If you posted up against Laimbeer you got hit and then he hit you again as you were getting up. Lol. The old day. That wasn't just the Pistons too. The Celtics in the 80's played just as dirty. And the Lakers, remember the clothesline? They don't let you play like that anymore sadly. Too much money tied up in players. It makes for a more difficult product to watch when every light tap or breathe on is a foul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdcskins Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 (edited) Nevermind, I thought Davis might be injured but he's out there. Go Heat. Edited October 10, 2020 by abdcskins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Nunn has been a godsend. His game is very Dragic-esque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdcskins Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Clutch 3 by Butler with the clock running out. He may will this team to a game 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COWBOY-KILLA- Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Nunn's spark has been a welcome sight. I like the energy, but you gotta give yourself a cushion, they had it and lost it. Buckle down. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Do Itch Big Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 GS didn’t ruin the league with the 3 pointer. That’s hating. GS doesn’t even spam the 3. That’s the rockets. If you can’t see the difference between generating an open look versus spamming that’s on you. There’s a reason GS always lead the league in assists. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 It's like watching Miami defend the Alamo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Do Itch Big Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Side view is so annoying. Can’t see **** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COWBOY-KILLA- Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 I do understand the sentiment that 3's just make it a shooting contest and that the game is softer than its ever been. However, the teams that use ball movement, player movement, and passing are employing basketball 101. It's a thing of beauty at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdcskins Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Duncan Robinson's shot has been money these past several games for the Heat. Him and Herro will be gunners for years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Ahhh the flopping... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 This is a good game. I have to ask is Bam really so injured he can’t attack Morris with space? He needs to be more aggressive. Lakers are having too easy a time defending him because he’s not doing anything when he gets the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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