The Official ES All Things Redskins Name Change Thread (Reboot Edition---Read New OP)

[Commander PK]

Also, in hand with my last post

 

simply acknowledging someone as having "red skin" does not necessarily mean that you think because you do not have "red skin" you are BETTER than they are.

 

Also, acknowledging someone as having "red skin" does not mean that you don't like them, because of their "red skin"  

 

I do not think that anyone who acknowledges my skin as "white" is a racist or prejudice against me either.  I am very white.  I look at my arms, and my face in the mirror.  I see a "white" man.  Another simply acknowledging what I see myself is not racist or prejudiced against me. I have been called "white boy" many times in my life.  

 

Frankly, so what 

[steve09ru]

Why is this so hard for people to grasp, the redskins name was never a racial slur. The name originated and came from the war paint they used and not their skin color- how is this so hard to understand? Can the skins sue NBC for that little **** fit last night for defamation? That would be awesome

[Passepartout]

Remember when the NBA team Washington Bullets caused an uproar back in the mid 1990s? And changed to the Washington Wizards! That is the same kind of uproar that is happening with the Redskins as long as they have been the Redskins?!

[SlinginSammy HOF '63]

I hate to say this folks, but if the team name changes I don't know that I can hang. I'd have to see if my heart would be with this team anymore. If the colors also changed then forget it. I no longer have a team. I have no regional or family identity to this team. My fan identity is tied strictly to team name, laundry color, and history. If that all goes then I will be a heartbroken rabid fan with no team.

[End2round2sanders]

Forget Costas, and Peter King for that matter as well. These guys have been in broadcasting and sports journalism for over 50 years combined, now all the sudden they have a problem with the name. Interesting no one was making a fuss about the name when Grossman was our QB..I also find it interesting that Costas made this statement in the friendly confines of Dallas Texas, why not make this statement in week 17 last season in DC?  Or in December against the Giants?

 

If they care so much about native Americans I bet neither have been on a reservation to do any community service to benefit them.. Why don't they change fighting Irish while they are at it.

 

If they change our name, I hope they advocate to get every other Indian themed team name changed as well.

 

In the end, the only way we could make an impact on the team change is to petition and threaten to cancel season tickets and just put a ban on the team. Money talks more politics.

[BleedBNG]

It's all a bait to get people to comment on their websites. Just as Costa's invitation at the end of his drivel.

[spjunkies]

I hate to say this folks, but if the team name changes I don't know that I can hang. I'd have to see if my heart would be with this team anymore. If the colors also changed then forget it. I no longer have a team. I have no regional or family identity to this team. My fan identity is tied strictly to team name, laundry color, and history. If that all goes then I will be a heartbroken rabid fan with no team.

Im right there with you. If my team goes, so do I I'm a fan of the tradition that this franchise has because it sure as hell isn't the product that had been put on the field in recent years. I'll just start treating football like I do basketball and baseball and that's halfway paying attention to it.

 

Don't do it Daniel Mr. Snyder.

[Destino]

Also, in hand with my last post

simply acknowledging someone as having "red skin" does not necessarily mean that you think because you do not have "red skin" you are BETTER than they are.

Also, acknowledging someone as having "red skin" does not believe that you don't like them, because of their "red skin"

I do not think that anyone who acknowledges my skin as "white" is a racist or prejudice against me either. I am very white. I look at my arms, and my face in the mirror. I see a "white" man. Another simply acknowledging what I see myself is not racist or prejudiced against me. I have been called "white boy" many times in my life.

Frankly, so what

It becomes racist when the people with red skin ask you to stop and you do not. This movement against the redskins name isn't simply arguing that it is racist, it is also making it so. You know how people in this thread have said, repeatedly, that the poll shows very few are offended? I'm willing to bet that this campaign is ticking the offended number upwards. We've already heard from a bunch of Native American sources no one had heard from previously.

[Forehead]

Well, in case the tides turn, I'm going to squat on ExtremeWarriors.com and sell it to the mods for $10,000 when the time is right.

[daveakl]

I hate to say this folks, but if the team name changes I don't know that I can hang. I'd have to see if my heart would be with this team anymore. If the colors also changed then forget it. I no longer have a team. I have no regional or family identity to this team. My fan identity is tied strictly to team name, laundry color, and history. If that all goes then I will be a heartbroken rabid fan with no team.

 

Just used my first like.  100% agree with this post.  Not to mention explaining to my kids that they are no longer allowed to wear their Redskins clothes to school or say that the Redskins are their favorite team because some people find the word racist (and then explain what racism is and how the word Redskins fits into that mess).

 

I love the game of football, always have and will continue to play it.  But watching the new team with a new name and a new identity when my heart has no ties to that new tradition will more then likely not happen.  

 

The players change, the coaches change, the owners change, the team name and colors stay the same.  Take those away and to me you are taking the team away, even if it still plays in DC.

[SkinsGuy]

Im right there with you. If my team goes, so do I I'm a fan of the tradition that this franchise has because it sure as hell isn't the product that had been put on the field in recent years. I'll just start treating football like I do basketball and baseball and that's halfway paying attention to it.

 

Don't do it Daniel Mr. Snyder.

 

 

Relax.

 

Snyder isn't going to change the name.

 

This is one matter he is handling correctly. He just let's all the white noise stay in the backround, occasionally putting out a statement that basically says "I'm not changing the name.... deal with it".

 

The vocal minority against the name made up of low foreheads like King, Costas, Wilbon, and Wise are getting frustrated. They can't get anyone on their side. Not the Native Americans who are supposedly the ones who are supposed to be offended (but aren't), not the Redskins fans who continue to buy the Redskins merchandise, not even the NFL who acts like they are interested, but won't do anything because they are making as much off the name as Snyder.

 

The WORST thing that can be done is to give in to their PC blackmail and change the name.

 

Keep fighting the good fight.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

I will still be a fan if the name of the team changes. You HAVE to think the colors stay the same. These aren't the Bullets; the Caps and Nats could change their colors and it wouldn't bother a ton of fans. The Washington Football Team is Burgundy and Gold, damnit.

It would be the same franchise I've followed, the same history applies to it. What is in a name? A lot, sure, it would be very weird having the name changed. However, if Michael Jordan's name was Johnny Doe, he'd still be the best basketball player ever. It'd still be --HIM--. It'd still be --US--. We still had Riggo, Darrell Green is our guy, Sammy Baugh is Babe Ruth, and Joe Gibbs is our greatest legend.

Again, weird. Weird transition, tough to handle, but we as a fanbase can get through it by being proud of the Redskins, and moving forward. We don't forget about Walter Johnson from the Senators, or Wes Unseld from the Bullets. My dad is a huge Nats fan, like he was a Senators fan. Talk about a loyal D.C. guy, he put up with decades of no baseball team.

We've all been watching this franchise morph over the years. This is another chapter, not the end of the line. Whatever dumb name they give us, the Redskins are our history.

[sacase]

I feel sorry for skins fans. There is really no way you can win this fight. I was laughing at Costa last night. He pretty much said....yeah most native Americans' dont' find it offensive, but hey what do they  know, it is still offensive. You can't fight this fight with facts because facts don't matter. You have some hyper PC liberals who know whats best for NA and they are championing this fight. It truly is a shame that people have to make up controversy when there is none. 

 

I truly hope that the skins don't change their name, but it seems the writing is on the wall. Every year more and more people are going to champion it. Partly due to their own ignorance, partly because they want to be on the "winning" side, partly because of jealousy. 

 

If the skins end up losing their trademark, that will be the biggest sign that the name will change quickly. Let's hope it doesn't' come to that. 

[Burgold]

You guys keep producing polls and you keep saying that most people are in favor of the name. That's great! Why isn't it working, like, at all?

Perhaps for the same reason the federal government is shut down. A small minority of the minority party is screaming at the top of their lungs trying to intimidate or tire everyone into getting their way.

[grego]

It becomes racist when the people with red skin ask you to stop and you do not.

The "people with red skin"? Which ones?

If millions of native Americans were of one voice on this issue, it would have been solved by now. It doesn't even appear to be a majority, making it even more complex.

[HighPlainsDrifter]

[Spearfeather]

The "people with red skin"? Which ones?

If millions of native Americans were of one voice on this issue, it would have been solved by now. It doesn't even appear to be a majority, making it even more complex.

 

[Destino]

The "people with red skin"? Which ones?

If millions of native Americans were of one voice on this issue, it would have been solved by now. It doesn't even appear to be a majority, making it even more complex.

I addressed that in the post you quoted, you just snipped out that part. Also you don't need anything approaching a majority, would you really argue that's it's not offensive if a quarter or a third disagreed with you? That's what this anti redskin campaign is doing. It's not just attacking the name it's drawing attention and putting pressure on people to agree with them.

[grego]

I addressed that in the post you quoted, you just snipped out that part. Also you don't need anything approaching a majority, would you really argue that's it's not offensive if a quarter or a third disagreed with you? That's what this anti redskin campaign is doing. It's not just attacking the name it's drawing attention and putting pressure on people to agree with them.

Honestly, des, I don't see an answer to my question in your previous post.

So I'll ask- do I listen to the ones with red skin who say they love the name? Or the ones who say its a slur?

You're asking about percentages, I've been asking the same thing forever. What's the % that necessitates a change?

Here's your whole post below-just making sure we are talking about the same post.

---------------------------------

It becomes racist when the people with red skin ask you to stop and you do not. This movement against the redskins name isn't simply arguing that it is racist, it is also making it so. You know how people in this thread have said, repeatedly, that the poll shows very few are offended? I'm willing to bet that this campaign is ticking the offended number upwards. We've already heard from a bunch of Native American sources no one had heard from previously.

[GhostofSparta]

I hope people like Wise and Costas are willing to help Matthew Inman in his fight to eliminate Columbus Day because of his horrendous actions against Natives.

 

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/columbus_day

 

But then, that fight might require effort and people might disagree with them, so they'll probably stick with easy issues that only require the ablility to speak English and lie.

[AsburySkinsFan]

You know, it's funny...it's not okay to name a team after Native Americans (Redskins) but it IS okay to name them after people who made a reputation of killing them (Cowboys).

....and Buffalo Bills

[War Paint]

I still don't think the name will change anytime soon.  Right now the name change thing is like a strong hurricane and we're at the point where the eye is making landfall.  The winds are strong, but we just need to hunker down and wait out the storm.  Sure, there will be other storms, but I don't think they will be as strong as this one.  I think right now the media is throwing everything but the kitchen sink at us.  We have to stand firm and eventually they will find some other self-righteous cause to focus on. 

 

I wish I could truly know how the average Native American thought about this and not Bob Costas, Profootball Talk, ESPN, or some questionable Chief who seems to be shady. 

[Glenn X]

Daniel Greenfield, who wrote a previously mentioned article on the execrable Ray Halbritter, penned another piece about the nickname controversy.  The following is an excerpt that I found to be salient.

 

Political correctness though doesn’t practice consistency. Like most liberal activism, it’s about class and power.

 

If Redskins fans were poor whites, they could be hit directly. But a mostly black team with a large black fan base can only be attacked indirectly with a manufactured controversy about their name.

 

The latest wave of pressure is being headed up by Ray Halbritter, CEO of Oneida Nation Enterprises, who has the virtue, unlike Rachel Maddow and 99 percent of the skinny pale liberals wearing retro glasses who write about this, of actually being Native American. (Or least 1/4 Native American considering that’s the blood quantum standard in the Oneida Nation, the small tribe, not the company, whose employees are mostly of the tribe of New Yorkers.)

 

The more local chiefs of the Patawomeck and Pamunkey in Virginia who said they weren’t offended were ignored. Robert Green, the former chief of the Patawomeck, said that he was a Redskins fan and would be offended if the team did change its name. Then he added that the Redskins name came from the Indians and that the country had become too politically correct.

 

This final excerpt includes a fascinatingly complex bit of English sports history that I had never encountered before.

 

Fans of the Tottenham Hotspur soccer team [in the U.K.] defy the police and the Football Association by chanting “Yid Army”. The Hotspurs once had a strong Jewish fanbase which responded to anti-Semitic taunts of “Yids, Yids” by calling itself the Yid Army. The now no-longer Jewish fans still call themselves the “Yid Army” and the players “Yiddos” for reasons of tradition – something Jews can certainly appreciate.

 

The Yid Army has run afoul of soccer’s efforts at stamping out racism, even though Yiddo, like Redskin, by now represents a different sort of tribal identity. A tribal identity built on team sports, rather than ethnicity or race. The latter, like urban identities, proliferate in multicultural societies where the number of actual Indians and Jews by blood is sharply diminished.

 

In one of the more surreal sports shouting matches, the Spurs fans shouted “Yid Army” in defiance of the ban while their rival West Ham supporters shouted, “Racists” at them. Somehow a game of soccer had turned into a paper on the more confusing aspects of multiculturalism.

 

Prime Minister Cameron, on a campaign to justify his political survival with strategic displays of common sense, said that, “There’s a difference between Spurs fans self-describing themselves as Yids and someone calling someone a Yid as an insult.”

 

There’s also a big difference between the Redskins team and calling someone a Redskin – which as a slur probably died out around the same time as Daniel Boone.

 

The refusal to look at what people mean, rather than what they say, has led to the criminalization of language and restrictions on speech with senseless results.

 

... Ridiculous incidents like these keep happening because liberal speech codes emphasize that it’s not what you mean; it’s whether it resembles something on the banned list.

 

The racism standard has moved away from motive to effect. Laws can be struck down as racist if it can be shown, not that they were discriminatory in intent, but in effect. It doesn’t matter what you do; only that someone was offended. And the only way to screen out the things that someone might possibly be offended by is by banning everything that could possibly be offensive.

 

Controlling language is about controlling people.

 

[grego]

Interesting article Glenn.

Wonder why costas didn't talk about halbritters shady past during his speech?

[thebluefood]

And I don't think I can emphasize this enough: this is NOTHING like the segregation controversy in the 1960s. Absolutely nothing. Anyone who draws parallels between that and this is full of it.