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The Official ES All Things Redskins Name Change Thread (Reboot Edition---Read New OP)


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a vocal, persistent minority who has managed to convince white and black 'jounalists' that their brethren are too stupid to understand when they are being insulted?

gibbs, are you questioning the polls, or are you saying the should be changed even if the polls are accurate?

 

I'm saying I don't think the polls mean anything.

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I'm saying I don't think the polls mean anything.

 

Facts don't either.

Once the media is involved, they REALLY don't matter.

there's Good PR in the water. ..    i mean, blood..  uh,, of course.

 

~Bang

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i think you lost me. 

 

how could they not mean anything? native americans opinions really dont matter? at all?

The only opinions that matter are those that agree with irrational liberalism. They will shout down the rest, loudly, and get their way. It will make the world so much better and all the stupid people with the wrong opinions (or facts) will see how much better in time. They will get their name change and then the perpetually offended will move on to a new reason to be offended. Its a lifestyle or a personality disorder.

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The bottom line to me is the following.  The argument against the name is easy, obvious, simple, and fundamentally incorrect.  The argument for the name is nuanced, complex, and ultimately true.  This is America.  People take the easy, obvious, and fallacious evidence/argument every single time.  I think a name change is inevitable. *snip*

 

This is what it has come down to.

 

Sadly I'm starting to think you are right and that we are going to lose the name eventually due to the constant spread of false equivalencies (Native American history = African American History, Redskin = N****r, etc.), false dichotomies (You're against the name or you are racist), and cherry picked history (etymology of the word Redskin, George Preston Marshall hated black people, therefore he hates all races, therefore the name is racist, etc.)

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The NFL is not just annoying.  It's corrupt.  Like Big Tobacco.  It's also a farce that stole 36 million dollars and 36 million in cap space from us, then gave that money to all of our competitors, all because we didn't participate in a collusion.  I've stopped watching everything but the Redskins too.  The only reason I still watch any games at all is habit.  And wanting to see RGIII play.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree. I Iong held the opinion that College football was far more corrupt and greedy, but I finally woke up. I'm now to the point where I'd give anything to see them crash and burn because of it. They've got so many corporations and fans byt he strings that it's not even funny.

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You guys keep producing polls and you keep saying that most people are in favor of the name.     That's great!   Why isn't it working, like, at all?

 

If polls showed that 75% of Americans and 68% of Native Americans opposed the name, there would already be preparations to change it.  Public opinion absolutely matters, especially that of Native Americans.  When they speak out, more people come out on their behalf and if public opinion begins affecting Dan's pocketbooks you can bet for damn sure the change will be made.

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I've said it once, I'll say it a million times!

Red Mesa High School in Arizona, a Navajo Reservation school.

Redskin Pride baby!!!!

http://www.rmusd.net/education/components/layout/default.php?sectiondetailid=944&

Keepin' It Rez 89.7 FM Redskin Radio

http://www.rmusd.net/education/components/scrapbook/default.php?sectiondetailid=497&

Stupid natives don't they know that they're calling themselves the N-word!

Quick send Bobbie Costas out there to educate those savages!

 

 

What needs to happen is for a school like this to invite Costas and Jenkins and Wise and other writes to come and explain to these kids why they are offended, and don't even know it. 

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If they did, why are we still talking about this?

 

 

gibbs, i'm really trying to follow you but i'm not sure i'm getting your argument. 

 

you want the name changed why? because some native americans say its offensive? tell me.

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gibbs, i'm really trying to follow you but i'm not sure i'm getting your argument. 

 

you want the name changed why? because some native americans say its offensive? tell me.

 

I think what he is saying is that, if the opinions of native americans on this issue actually mattered, it would not be an "issue" and the name would stay. But their opinion doesn't matter at all, as we've come to learn, most particularly over the past couple months.

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gibbs, i'm really trying to follow you but i'm not sure i'm getting your argument. 

 

you want the name changed why? because some native americans say its offensive? tell me.

 

I don't want the name changed.  I'd love it if the name went back to being what it is.  An NFL team name.  Case closed.

 

However, I see the writing on the wall and we just don't have any room to stand.   Public opinion is that the name is somewhat racist.  Even if no one is offended, the way it's worded isn't acceptable any longer.   Red Skins.   It sounds like it's categorizing a group of people by the color of their skin.  That's simply more than frowned upon in today's world of diversity.

 

It doesn't matter if anyone is offended.  It doesn't matter what the original intent of the word was.  It doesn't matter how many reservation High Schools have the same mascot.

Public opinion is that the name groups people together due to their skin color.   It may be completely wrong.  But it isn't changing.  The snowball is coming down the mountain side and it's just gathering more snow.     I think we are all on the wrong end of this one and I'm just trying to embrace a change because I think it's inevitable at this point.

 

Plus, I'm tired of people saying the name of the team I care so much for is bad, negative and racist.   

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I don't want the name changed.  I'd love it if the name went back to being what it is.  An NFL team name.  Case closed.

 

However, I see the writing on the wall and we just don't have any room to stand.   Public opinion is that the name is somewhat racist.  Even if no one is offended, the way it's worded isn't acceptable any longer.   Red Skins.   It sounds like it's categorizing a group of people by the color of their skin.  That's simply more than frowned upon in today's world of diversity.

 

It doesn't matter if anyone is offended.  It doesn't matter what the original intent of the word was.  It doesn't matter how many reservation High Schools have the same mascot.

Public opinion is that the name groups people together due to their skin color.   It may be completely wrong.  But it isn't changing.  The snowball is coming down the mountain side and it's just gathering more snow.     I think we are all on the wrong end of this one and I'm just trying to embrace a change because I think it's inevitable at this point.

 

Plus, I'm tired of people saying the name of the team I care so much for is bad, negative and racist.   

Here... study up on where the name came from...

http://anthropology.si.edu/goddard/redskin.pdf

Edited by Ellis
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Ok. I've read some other posts before and wasn't sure if this was your position, but it sounds like you're saying that "redskins" since it refers to native Americans, had to be changed.

I don't think "grouping people together by the color of their skin" is what some people are upset about. If that were the case, "black", "white" would be unacceptable.

The debate about the name is about the name being a slur, according to some- not about grouping people together.

Does that make sense?

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It doesnt make sense because it's not used as a slur.

 

Can you (or anyone) find any evidence that it's been used as a slur in the past 50 years?  Or past 100?

 

The term means one thing- the name of the Washington football team.

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If they did, why are we still talking about this?

Simple

 

The people who can't find legitimate proof to back up their case...refuse to back down.  

 

Edit: or support from the people they are trying to defend

Edited by Painkiller
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It doesnt make sense because it's not used as a slur.

Can you (or anyone) find any evidence that it's been used as a slur in the past 50 years? Or past 100?

The term means one thing- the name of the Washington football team.

I agree with you. I was saying that some people are saying it is a slur.

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I agree with you. I was saying that some people are saying it is a slur.

Actually, I think some people are claiming that other people SHOULD consider it a slur.

 

And even if some did, what does that matter.  If I was offended by another teams name, should they have to change it?

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Ok, I can't stand this any longer.  If people are going to continue to use the word "racist" they at least need to know what the definition is.  

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racist?s=ts

 

rac·ist  [rey-sist]  Show IPA
noun
1.
a person who believes in racismthe doctrine that a certain human race is superior to any or all others.
 
 
and for good measure
 

 

prej·u·dice   [prej-uh-dis]  Show IPA noun, verb, prej·u·diced, prej·u·dic·ing.
noun
1.
an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.
2.
any preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorable.
3.
unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, especially of a hostile natureregarding a racial,religious, or national group.
4.
such attitudes considered collectively: The war against prejudice is never-ending.
5.
damage or injury; detriment: a law that operated to the prejudice of the major

 

 

at the most the name "Redskins" is racially insensitive, but it is not inherently "racist" nor is it evidence of "prejudice."  People who are going to use those words against the team need to at least understand what they mean.

Edited by Painkiller
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