The Official ES All Things Redskins Name Change Thread (Reboot Edition---Read New OP)

[mcsluggo]

I swear to god my dad has that VHS.

i think i had it also... and may still have it somewhere

(it has been a while since i looked through my old tapes... i better check and see if i have anything more incriminating than this!)

[RedskinsFan44]

I wholeheartedly disagree with his premise that there is widespread anger at NA's on this, this is not them vs. us. I see no reversal of the love and compassion for NA's. If anything this rekindles the spirit of the plight of NA's and brings it to the forefront. Don't let the Casino and Tobacco mogul speak for all NA's.  

I do not think there is widespread anger, but if you go back through the thread you will find plenty of "we should do this, that would show them", etc.  I am sure a lot of it is in jest, but sometimes a debate becomes so frustrating that you begin to attack the people rather than the ideas.   I really do not care for Harjo or Halbritter, but I think it is important to attack the lies as opposed to the people

[SWFLSkins]

I do not think there is widespread anger, but if you go back through the thread you will find plenty of "we should do this, that would show them", etc.  I am sure a lot of it is in jest, but sometimes a debate becomes so frustrating that you begin to attack the people rather than the ideas.   I really do not care for Harjo or Halbritter, but I think it is important to attack the lies as opposed to the people

 

Okay but it is hard to not attack the people lying, I just meant that I don't see Redskins fans turning on NA's as a group because of this name debate. I feel this is more an attack on freedom of speech and commerce then it is an attack on a mascot's usage or intent. 

 

 

http://nypost.com/2014/06/20/patent-ly-offensive/

 

Despite polls suggesting Native Americans at large either don’t find the name “Redskins” offensive or don’t care, the patent decision suggests key parts of laws designed to protect intellectual property — trademarks, copyrights, etc. — are now vulnerable to partisan undermining.

If a precedent is set, what would stop the politically correct targeting of trademarks of teams such as the Chicago Blackhawks, Atlanta Braves, Cleveland Indians — or the Notre Dame Fighting Irish, for that matte

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------

July 4th will be coming up soon, and you can be sure if you are getting together with family members from various parts around the globe, one or more will ask you how you can love that football team with the name that is so offensive to so many Americans — who obviously have been fighting for decades for the health and welfare of Native Americans, and surely will continue to do so.

Enlarge Photo

The Washington Redskins name is displayed on a building at their training ... more >

That’s the offensive part in the Washington Redskins name debate — the hypocrisy of people perfuming their righteous vanities who couldn’t have cared less about the plight of Native Americans before they were told they should be offended by this name, and who will go back to caring even less if and when the name is changed.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jun/19/hypocrites-will-get-their-way-redskins-nickname/#ixzz35BghVrPc 

Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

 

 

 

There was a nuclear overreaction over the disputed decision by the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office that canceled the Washington Redskins trademark registration because the name is “disparaging to Native Americans.”

I hope the Red Mesa High School Redskins on a Navajo reservation in Arizona — where nearly 100 percent of the students are Native Americans — got that memo.

Nothing has changed as a result of the board’s decision — the same one it made in 1999 and was overturned four years later. The team is still doing Redskins business with the Redskins name, and, no, you can’t start a Redskins Dry Cleaners or some other venture.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jun/19/hypocrites-will-get-their-way-redskins-nickname/#ixzz35Bgb3AVD 

Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

[mcsluggo]

people that wnat to change the name aren't lying, they just disagree with you.  and the ones that do so in an overly grandiose and denigrating way are jackasses that hurt their supposed cause.    but most people that want the name changed aren't that way.   

 

similarly people that post things like:

 

 

Unbelievably hypocritical.  So it's not ok for the "white guys" to tell the Native Americans they shouldn't be offended by the name.  But yet it's ok that Harry Reid and the rest of his liberal filth in the senate tell the Native Americans that they should be offended by this and want the name change?  Are you unaware that the majority of NAs support the team name?  This has everything to do with votes......Harry Reid can give a damn about the name.

 

 

hurt THEIR own cause.  

[Bantu]

Eh??

[Bang]

Unbelievably hypocritical.  So it's not ok for the "white guys" to tell the Native Americans they shouldn't be offended by the name.  But yet it's ok that Harry Reid and the rest of his liberal filth in the senate tell the Native Americans that they should be offended by this and want the name change?  Are you unaware that the majority of NAs support the team name?  This has everything to do with votes......Harry Reid can give a damn about the name.

 

And here's a prime example of why it is SO EASY to use the media to manipulate issues like this. 

 

Why do the Harjo group not bother with a poll that would PROVE their point?

Because they don't need one. all they need is media to gin up rage.

See how easy it is?

You think you're railing against them, but what you're doing is enabling them and others like them.

 

Don't do us any favors.

 

~Bark

[Fan since a Fetus]

I think it is easy to attack people's characters that are generally distrustful or you really have no respect for like Halbritter, Harjo, and Reid. I don't like the reporter from the Washington Post, I know his name, I am just not going to promote him. Because I feel that his position on this matter has not been genuine, it makes me question everything he does in the future, even if it is for a good cause. I think he has done this because of disagreements with the Skins and I think he wants his name to be known.

When someone uses a stance, you can look at their past behaviors and it will most likely sway how you feel about their cause, which makes it quite easy to attack their character when they are promoting something that you disagree with.

I think it is human to do so.

[Old Bay]

Here's the full (and huge) findings from the Trademark Trial and Appeal Board which took place in early 2013.

 

http://www.scribd.com/doc/230248014/TTAB-Order#download

[War Paint]

You guys should check this out.  It has different interviews(some are on camera interviews) with Oneida NAs about Halbritter.  The topic of our name comes up towards the end.  This name change battle is worth it if it some how sheds light on helping the Oneida people and exposing Halbritter for what he is.

 

 

Ray Halbritter Is No Better Then A Slum Lord Dictator

[KuNiT21]

 

And here's a prime example of why it is SO EASY to use the media to manipulate issues like this. 

 

Why do the Harjo group not bother with a poll that would PROVE their point?

Because they don't need one. all they need is media to gin up rage.

See how easy it is?

You think you're railing against them, but what you're doing is enabling them and others like them.

 

Don't do us any favors.

 

~Bark

 

Dude are you paying attention?  The cat is already out of the bag.....it's not like its a big secret about the Redskins name change anymore.  They are already enabled as you can see from the massive amount of people who had absolutely no clue that the Redskins name was considered racist and now suddenly it's the worse name in the book.  These people have no clue about the history of the name or literally anything about the Redskins but just that it's offensive.  This **** isn't going to stop until people START talking about and start becoming sick of the PC that runs through this country.

[Zguy28]

Dude are you paying attention?  The cat is already out of the bag.....it's not like its a big secret about the Redskins name change anymore.  They are already enabled as you can see from the massive amount of people who had absolutely no clue that the Redskins name was considered racist and now suddenly it's the worse name in the book.  These people have no clue about the history of the name or literally anything about the Redskins but just that it's offensive.  This **** isn't going to stop until people START talking about and start becoming sick of the PC that runs through this country.

I think this demonstrates his point that you don't see that what you think is helpful, actually isn't.

[Zazzaro703]

Actually it's not, well at least not entirely. A couple of observations:

The side that wants it changed has bunches of tribes representing thousands of NA's in support and have signed petitions or enacted tribal resolutions.

The side that wants to keep it has an owner, players, and sports fans, who are a majority non-NA. Where are the tribal petitions and resolutions supporting the name? Maybe I missed them? They are needed to counter them.

The changers win that one.

The name used in the context of the team, has never been meant to be disparaging and still isn't. In fact many NA's have said they find it honoring.

The name has also become a negative word or disparaging term to many thousands of NA's. They now consider the word equivalent to "darkie" or "chinaman".

Just like in IT, deny will always take precedence over allow. What got you here, won't get you there. The changers have won that one too.

The changers are filled with many forms of hypocrisy. However that doesn't change the points above, it just seeks to discredit or obscure them. Plus, not enough people care.

The changers win again.

And now you all know what it feels like when the sacred is taken away and redefined to a definition that was never intended and was not supposed to be. This is how those of us who oppose gay marriage and support traditional marriage feel. It's a sickening feeling in your stomach isn't it, when you feel something you cherish twisted and changed? This is the path our nation has chosen. Now we all must live with it. The redefinitions will continue.

Again, 25 tribes out of 566, thousands of people out of millions. We

Dont change things because of 10-20 percent. If we did, there would be different laws, regulations and words we have to follow and use every month. Im not going to stop calling our team the redskins because some bums in government who have way more important things to do, the Ridiculous crusading PC crowd and a small minority of NAs have a problem. If it were 35-40 percent ok, but its not even close. The only reason more people are starting to think its offensive now is because the liberal media has been hammering it into peoples head that its offensive. If the media shut up about it, non issue. I do have some sympathy for the NA that are truly offeneded by it, but to hear the cherokee of oklahoma are on that list just makes me wonder about the motives here. Oklahoma means red people. Red people, red skins.... You cant be serious. This whole thing is annoying, im glad snyder feels the way i do so i wont be worrying about a name change for decades.

If we changed things for the 10-20 vocal minority, you better believe almost all the sitting politicians, including Obama, would be gone. You want to talk of offensive, look at the state of our country. Ridiculous first world issues like this contribute to the current state of the US. Ive said what i have to say about the name, im gonna stay out of here. Hail to the REDSKINS!

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

 We Dont change things because of 10-20 percent.

 

Of course we do. We absolutely do. Constantly.

[Zguy28]

Again, 25 tribes out of 566, thousands of people out of millions. We

Dont change things because of 10-20 percent. If we did, there would be different laws, regulations and words we have to follow and use every month. Im not going to stop calling our team the redskins because some bums in government who have way more important things to do, the Ridiculous crusading PC crowd and a small minority of NAs have a problem. If it were 35-40 percent ok, but its not even close. The only reason more people are starting to think its offensive now is because the liberal media has been hammering it into peoples head that its offensive. If the media shut up about it, non issue. I do have some sympathy for the NA that are truly offeneded by it, but to hear the cherokee of oklahoma are on that list just makes me wonder about the motives here. Oklahoma means red people. Red people, red skins.... You cant be serious. This whole thing is annoying, im glad snyder feels the way i do so i wont be worrying about a name change for decades.

If we changed things for the 10-20 vocal minority, you better believe almost all the sitting politicians, including Obama, would be gone. You want to talk of offensive, look at the state of our country. Ridiculous first world issues like this contribute to the current state of the US. Ive said what i have to say about the name, im gonna stay out of here. Hail to the REDSKINS!

To prove your point, gays make up 1.7% of the population. Oh wait...

 

Disclaimer: I'm not saying I necessarily disagree with you in principle, just acknowledging reality.

[skinsmarydu]

What I got from "we don't change" in Zazzaro's post is that we shouldn't. And I agree with him.

Many of the callers on Jamie Dukes' show here the other day were of the opinion that it's come to a "minority rules" society.

They were also discussing what this may mean for the Braves down the road, and I've been a Braves fan since '86, (nowhere near as long as I've been a Redskins fan), and I would hate to see that name contested too.

That being said, I don't think the Braves name would ever become an issue. (But I'm gonna quietly let it fester, because the Redskins may need the fervor of other teams' fans as well.) I'll take all the support I can get.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

What I got from "we don't change" in Zazzaro's post is that we shouldn't. And I agree with him.

 

 

How far do you go with "majority rules?"

[Riggo#44]

What I got from "we don't change" in Zazzaro's post is that we shouldn't. And I agree with him.

Many of the callers on Jamie Dukes' show here the other day were of the opinion that it's come to a "minority rules" society.

They were also discussing what this may mean for the Braves down the road, and I've been a Braves fan since '86, (nowhere near as long as I've been a Redskins fan), and I would hate to see that name contested too.

That being said, I don't think the Braves name would ever become an issue. (But I'm gonna quietly let it fester, because the Redskins may need the fervor of other teams' fans as well.) I'll take all the support I can get.

 

If the Redskins name falls--it'll be the 1st of the dominoes. The Chiefs, Blackhawks, and Braves will all be next--Harjo, Halbritter, Blackhorse have all said as much.

 

It will set the precedent.

[GibbsFactor]

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk  38s

Jerry Jones doesn't see owners pressuring Snyder to change name

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/20/jerry-jones-doesnt-see-owners-pressuring-snyder-to-change-name/

 

 

 

On a side note, the Judge Doty Collusion case has been reinstated by the 8th district court.

[skinsmarydu]

How far do you go with "majority rules?"

Right around 82 years of tradition far.  

This is a football team.  Granted, the most important thing in life to some of us, but it's a football team.  It's not a government policy or law that is meant to hurt anyone.   As has been repeated ad nauseam in this thread, everything offends someone.   Let's put our big boy/big girl pants on & get over it. 

[MattFancy]

 

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk  38s

Jerry Jones doesn't see owners pressuring Snyder to change name

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/20/jerry-jones-doesnt-see-owners-pressuring-snyder-to-change-name/

 

 

 

On a side note, the Judge Doty Collusion case has been reinstated by the 8th district court.

 

 

And this along with the FedEx statement is why I can't see the name changing any time soon. If the other owners and the Redskins' sponsors aren't going to pressure the team, it basically becomes a shouting match between Snyder and the media.

 

The question is, how much time, money and energy will Snyder keep putting into all of this?

 

As of right now, the only way I see it changing is if Congress threatens to pull the NFL's Anti-Trust agreement. Not sure if that would actually happen, but I feel that's what it would take to convince Snyder/NFL to make a change.

[TK]

This is about a year & a half old, but I'm wondering how much casino profit ol Ray slipped to the Senator.

 

 

 

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/01/12/indicted-businessman-names-harry-reid-as-alleged-recipient-of-massive-bribe/

 

 

Indicted Businessman Names Harry Reid as Alleged Recipient of Massive Bribe

Jan. 12, 2013 8:02pm 

Erica Ritz

 

 

 

 

 

A Utah businessman is rocking both state and national politics after claiming Utah Attorney General John Swallow helped him broker a deal with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid to make a federal investigation into his company quietly disappear, the Salt Lake Tribune reports.

Jeremy Johnson was allegedly told that the price would be $600,000, and claims to have made an initial payment of $250,000 when he was slapped with a federal lawsuit.  Now he says he wants his money back.

The Salt Lake Tribune points out that Johnson has no way of knowing whether the funds actually made it to Reid, even if he did make a massive payment to Reid’s alleged intermediary.

The Salt Lake Tribune continues, explaining how the bribe supposedly came to be in 2010:

At the time, Johnson was largely known in Utah as a wealthy philanthropist who spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to ferry supplies into Haiti after the devastating 2010 earthquake.

Then, with the FTC investigation continuing, Johnson said Swallow suggested Reid could make problems with regulators go away — for a price.

“I said, ‘OK, what do I need to do?’ He’s like, ‘OK, it costs money,’ ” Johnson said, who claimed Swallow was adamant he make a deal.

“I think he told me, ‘Richard Rawle has a connection with Harry Reid,’ ” Johnson said.

He said Swallow at first wanted $2 million to enlist Reid’s help. But [his company] I Works was no longer profitable and he did not have the money, Johnson said, so they eventually agreed on $300,000 upfront and $300,000 later.

Swallow put Johnson in contact with Rawle, whose company has operations in Nevada…

Rawle, who died of cancer last month, had contributed to Reid’s 2010 re-election bid and later bragged to Johnson that the Nevada Democrat helped him delay new federal payday-loan regulations, Johnson said.

On Sept. 29, 2010, Swallow sent an email to Johnson with the subject line “Mtg. with Harry Reid’s contact.”

“Richard [Rawle] is traveling to LV tomorrow and will be able to contact this person, who he has a very good relationship with. He needs a brief narrative of what is going on and what you want to happen. I don’t know the cost, but it probably won’t be cheap.”

On Oct. 7, Johnson emailed Rawle, insisting there was “rock solid proof” the FTC allegations against I Works were false. “We will do whatever it take

to get Senator Reid on our side and hopefully you can help make it happen. Let me know.”

Johnson spent 96 days in jail and has released a number of emails and statements seemingly corroborating parts of his story.  However, Swallow insists that Johnson is making “false and defamatory accusations” and that any role he may have played was merely for lobbying purposes.

“There’s nothing wrong with that,” Swallow stated. “As long as I’m not interfering with a government agency as a government official, there’s nothing wrong with me being involved.”

But Johnson told a judge he’s felt guilty about the situation from the start: “The truth is the worst thing I think I’ve done was I paid money knowing it was going to influence Harry Reid…So I’ve felt all along that I’ve committed bribery of some sort there.”

Though the connection to Reid remains unverified, some are remembering how Reid claimed on the Senate floor that Mitt Romney hadn’t paid his taxes for ten years based on far less evidence.

A Las Vegas Review-Journal blog jokes about how Reid might address the situation, if looking in from the outside:

I have a “source” that says that Harry Reid takes bribes all the time. In fact, if you want anything done out of his office, you must come with a suitcase of cash just to get an audience. That’s how he’s gotten so rich on a senator’s salary. He stashes his money in an offshore bank account. And, as a sidebar for Salt Lake church execs, he hasn’t tithed on that bribe money.

Senator Harry Reid’s office has declined to comment.

 

 

 

[War Paint]

Of course we do. We absolutely do. Constantly.

Not really.  We have laws in place to protect minorities from exploitation or discrimination and changes come from that, but the majority view usually overrides the minority view on topics or issues that don't involve a particular group being oppressed or losing their rights.  How is our team name oppressing and stripping the rights away from NAs?

[War Paint]

FWIW,

 

WCSkins310 @RedskinD  ·  10h

I asked Mr. Snyder in Denver bout the name change he told me don't worry it ain't gonna happen. #teamRedskins #HTTR pic.twitter.com/LaG7PECV44

 

 

[KuNiT21]

I think this demonstrates his point that you don't see that what you think is helpful, actually isn't.

 

What point?  The name change is already in local newspapers, local news stations, facebook, twitter, mass media stations, mass media newspapers.  EVERYONE is aware of what's going on.  This is the world we live in and I understand that.  I'm pretty sure everyone who is aware of the name change already knows it's where it is now because of Govt.  So we should stop talking about the political correctness that is running crazy in this country?  The root source of this entire problem is because it came from the Govt.  It's time to start blaming the radicals running PC throughout this country.  Pretty soon we will start reading about ridiculousness like the Cleveland Browns need a name/uniform change because 1% view the name "Browns" as offensive and referring to skin color.  This **** has got to stop already.  

[RedskinsFan44]

people that wnat to change the name aren't lying, they just disagree with you.  and the ones that do so in an overly grandiose and denigrating way are jackasses that hurt their supposed cause.    but most people that want the name changed aren't that way.   

 

When people say redskins is a term for scalps they are lying.  When a group makes an ad that the hook line "one thing they never refer to themselves as.." is demonstrably false they are lying.