Common Kirk....I just don't know....

[PartyPosse]

48 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Today was a perfect representation of what some of his critics wanted to see:  a big money drive when the game is on the line and a win.   Some people say they don't care about big stats, they just want Kirk to win and play well when it counts.  Well, they got just that today.   My point wasn't this was one of Kirk's better games.  Clearly it wasn't.  But if he is going to be attacked for not being clutch  -- its a bit unfair for some to move the goal post to something else.  This isn't directed at you but just months months of Kirk debates.  

I'm as anti Kirk as there is here and I was happy with the job he did. My point was though that we saw what he did today and that's not the Kirk we've all seen the last couple years. It was also a team offensive performance that doesn't necessarily need an elite QB. Was the drive clutch? Yes. But as important as he was in it so too were Perine, Crowder, the OL.

 

Kirk did his job. Admirable. No doubt. But many supporters of his claimed that the only way the redskins can win games is if Kirk plays out of his mind. The defense is better, if the run game can maintain some semblance of efficiency then I don't think it's worth spending 28 million of a QB. This game was the best and worst case scenario for Kirk.

[zCommander]

5 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Now see. I would have gotten a warning for this post :). What have you seen out of Cousins that leads you to believe he is capable of winning a championship? I am truly interested to know. I mean going .500 every year or a little above or below that is not what any of us are looking for. We all want ANOTHER Super Bowl win. And personally I dont see Cousins being able to deliver that.

 

FACT 4-5 games last year were lost by the D. So let's not pretend here that EVERY QB elite or not can single handily carry their teams to the SB. Even the great Brady has lost two to the Giants and didn't make it to couple of SB as well. 

 

So why not just build a better team around Kirk instead and keep the continuity? Forget about how much he will be making. Winning a SB is priceless! 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

He is getting better. The first game all his passes were way high, this game he looked a lot more accurate.

 

He had a to deal with a lot of drops and lets not forget that he lost his top two targets to free agency and Jordan Reed was missing for part of the third quarter.... 

 

Its gonna be tough for him to look good against the raiders next week....

 

25 million isn't too much for a game manager, imo. Cousins gives us a chance to win where no other qb in the past 15 years has... 

[ncr2h]

Does anybody know if Kirk still calls the line protections?

 

One thing I've noticed this year is that there have been at least 3-4 times where a defensive lineman has been left unblocked.  It's kind of bizarre - if it were a DB or LB, perhaps it would be because they just brought more numbers than we have.  But these are simple 4-5 man rushes where our line is shifting away from a guy who is clearly going to rush the passer.

 

Did Long take over all the protection duties or something now that he's had a full offseason as the center?  Because one of Kirk's hallmarks has been how clean he's been able to keep himself, and so far this season it has looked really bad.  They're missing some very basic protections.  And I'm used to seeing Kirk being more vocal at the line with the protections, which I haven't seen very much of this year.

 

Anyway, just something that's bugged me - a defensive lineman should not be able to come out of his stance and get a free run to the QB with no stunting or other trickery needed.

[Bacon]

4 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

So why not just build a better team around Kirk instead and keep the continuity? Forget about how much he will be making. Winning a SB is priceless! 

 

You can't just "forget" how much Kirk is making when there's a salary cap to consider. Not sure how you can build a better team around Kirk with the contract he's asking for. 

 

Sometimes expensive QBs bleed their teams dry. Look at the Colts. 

[LaxBuddy21]

14 minutes ago, Bacon said:

 

You can't just "forget" how much Kirk is making when there's a salary cap to consider. Not sure how you can build a better team around Kirk with the contract he's asking for. 

 

Sometimes expensive QBs bleed their teams dry. Look at the Colts. 

I don't think you can blame the Colts on the contract. Look at all the other teams with expensive quarterback contracts that are able to field competitive teams. The Colts are just a mess. 

[readonly]

18 minutes ago, Bacon said:

 

You can't just "forget" how much Kirk is making when there's a salary cap to consider. Not sure how you can build a better team around Kirk with the contract he's asking for. 

 

Sometimes expensive QBs bleed their teams dry. Look at the Colts. 

 

He never counter offered, and therefore didn't ask for any contract.

[Destino]

38 minutes ago, LaxBuddy21 said:

I don't think you can blame the Colts on the contract. Look at all the other teams with expensive quarterback contracts that are able to field competitive teams. The Colts are just a mess. 

Like the falcons?  Matty Ice was racking up 80 rating seasons until they built a winner around him after he signed an extension.  Green Bay on the other hand has squandered a n all time great QB and no one would blame his salary for their inability to win a second Super Bowl.  

 

Bottom line, a good front office will build a good team.  A bad one will not, with or without a QB contract.

 

 

[Fat Stupid Loser]

37 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

I'm as anti Kirk as there is here and I was happy with the job he did. My point was though that we saw what he did today and that's not the Kirk we've all seen the last couple years. It was also a team offensive performance that doesn't necessarily need an elite QB. Was the drive clutch? Yes. But as important as he was in it so too were Perine, Crowder, the OL.

 

Kirk did his job. Admirable. No doubt. But many supporters of his claimed that the only way the redskins can win games is if Kirk plays out of his mind. The defense is better, if the run game can maintain some semblance of efficiency then I don't think it's worth spending 28 million of a QB. This game was the best and worst case scenario for Kirk.

So, if he doesn't play out of his mind and carry the team to victory by himself, he isn't worth a market deal. However, if the team plays well enough around him that he doesn't have to play out of his mind and carry the team to victory by himself, he isn't worth a market deal. OK.

[PartyPosse]

5 minutes ago, Fat Stupid Loser said:

So, if he doesn't play out of his mind and carry the team to victory by himself, he isn't worth a market deal. However, if the team plays well enough around him that he doesn't have to play out of his mind and carry the team to victory by himself, he isn't worth a market deal. OK.

How do we know what market value is? Seriously all this talk of "market value" based on what, media predictions? The second franchise tag? Kirk rejected an offer that would have paid him market value but he's not looking for that. He wants guaranteed money only. He doesn't want market value or else he would have countered the redskins offer. You don't bank on one year deals because you're looking for market value. Market value is what the market dictates he is worth well there is no way of knowing because any GM stupid enough to come out publicly and state what they would pay is looking at major tampering punishment. Stafford and Carr? If you still think Cousins is remotely close to either of those two then you are completely biased.

 

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

15 minutes ago, Destino said:

Like the falcons?  Matty Ice was racking up 80 rating seasons until they built a winner around him after he signed an extension.  Green Bay on the other hand has squandered a n all time great QB and no one would blame his salary for their inability to win a second Super Bowl.  

 

Bottom line, a good front office will build a good team.  A bad one will not, with or without, a QB contract.

 

 

That's not true at all. Ryan was always a good qb. The only year he had an 80 rating was his sophomore year. He is and was way more proven than Kirk. 

[justice98]

26 minutes ago, readonly said:

 

He never counter offered, and therefore didn't ask for any contract.

 

By not accepting the one offered, he's at least asking for that.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Destino said:

He wants to be paid what the market says he's worth, just like the other QBs that signed this past offseason not name Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady.  

The problem is that nobody actually knows what the market says he's worth because the Skins tagged him twice.

 

so they've set the market with the tag.  If he hit FA, he might get more or less than the tag.  But we have no idea.

[Llevron]

24 minutes ago, Destino said:

 

Bottom line, a good front office will build a good team.  A bad one will not, with or without, a QB contract.

 

 

 

So what you are trying to say is.....

 

 

But seriously. As one of those "bad" front offices I don't think we could pull it off if he was the dude. I don't even think he is, but either way he's not making it easy for them to wrap him up asking for record breaking contracts. Then he goes out and has games like this where he largely rides the team to a win despite his own failures for 57 minutes. 

 

It's no ****ing wonder we are confused about the guy. 

[Wyvern]

A few things to note:

 

 That Rams fan who visited ES, mentioned that stopping the run was their Achilles Heel -- perhaps the coaches noticed that as well.

 

It's a sad thing to watch on how ES'ers are somehow blaming Cousins for being the $24 million QB.  How it got to this point, is really on the Skins FO, not Cousins. Or was he supposed to say, don't franchise tag me -- I'm not worth it, and instead, pay me less than what a franchise tagged QB is supposed to get.  That would be unusual, especially for a QB entering what are traditionally considered his prime years.

 

Still -- even with the hyper-inflated contracts for QBs in this market --  I'm confident that if some long-term deal could be reached, that Cousins' annual rate would go down a bit.  But why should Cousins sign an LTD, when he's not sure about the direction of the franchise, the receiving corps, the running, the o-line, the Offensive coordinator, the game-plan, etc.?   Why are people expecting Cousins forget about all that, and just  accept a modest 2-year deal, while doubling down on his trust in the Skins FO by also offering a home-town discount?

 

The ongoing receiving corps issues are worrisome.  It's becoming more apparent that the Skins 2017 receivers are not NFL-ready and as dangerous as was the Skins 2016 receiving squad.  It's likely Cousins numbers aren't going to be as sparkling -- until things get more in synch, until Pryor gets into a groove, Reed and Crowder get more healthy, and Doctson actually starts to contribute.  And that's going to put pressure on the running game.

 

I wouldn't rely too much on this Rams game to start claiming it's now the return of the Skins "ground & pound" offense.  For now, -- at least until NFL offenses start to gel -- the more quickly-gelling defenses are going to allow OCs to employ more conservative game-plans.  But as NFL offenses start clicking, I suspect the Skins D will start to exhibit some of its 2016 form -- and that will put more pressure on the Skins aerial offense to put up larger numbers of points. Hopefully the Skins passing game will be in better shape by then.

 

 

[Destino]

18 minutes ago, Dr. Do Itch Big said:

That's not true at all. Ryan was always a good qb. The only year he had an 80 rating was his sophomore year. He is and was way more proven than Kirk. 

He's had ratings in the 80s in 2013 and 2015, and prior to the rise of this current Falcons team people were down on him and wondering if he'd ever put it together.  

[petedaddy]

Just now, Destino said:

He's had ratings in the 80s in 2013 and 2015, and prior to the rise of this current Falcons team people were down on him and wondering if he'd ever put it together.  

 

exactly...people forget the Falcons had a stretch of 4-12, 6-10, 8-8 (where they started out 5-0)

[justice98]

28 minutes ago, Destino said:

Like the falcons?  Matty Ice was racking up 80 rating seasons until they built a winner around him after he signed an extension.  

 

I dont know where you got that from, but as a point of fact, his passer ratings for his career are (rounded): 88, 81, 91, 92, 99, 90 (year of the extension), 94, 89, 117.  Prior to the extension, the Falcons won double digit games 4 out of his first 5 years.  Probably woulda been all 5, but he missed two games one year and they list them both to finush 9-7.  

 

They backslid and had to rebuild the team, but his performance has been rather consistent.  The only thing that ever held him back was lack of playoff success and he took care of that.

[justice98]

22 minutes ago, Destino said:

He's had ratings in the 80s in 2013 and 2015, and prior to the rise of this current Falcons team people were down on him and wondering if he'd ever put it together.  

 

You didnt say "in the 80s", you said 80.  And even when he was "in the 80s, it was still the upper 80s except for one year.

 

His first 3 trips to the posteseaon were underwhelming.  He'd put up numbers and get to the playoffs and not look so great.  But since then, he's been different and much better in the 5 playoff games since. Nobody questioned his regular season performance.

[skinny21]

Ok, so I started this yesterday and just got back to finishing it.  Looked at last season and how things went at the end of halves and end of games.  Was inspired by the talk of Kirk's failing in the clutch.  I think the results were interesting.  

 

Note:  'near end of half/game' means the other team had another possession and we may have had another possession, but there was little time left

 

 

 

Pit - int end of game (game was well out of reach)

Dal - field goal drive end of half

NYG - fumble (recovers) in RZ end of half, long field goal drive for lead at end of game, Eli int to seal game

Cle - long field goal drive to tie game at end of half (cle has 1 more drive)

Bal - (missed) field goal drive at end of half

Phi - td drive at end of half

Det - field goal drive at end of half, td drive at end of game (leave 49 secs on clock, Det scores td)

Cin - field goal drive at end of half, (missed) field goal drive near end of game

Min - FG near end of game

GB - td near end of half, td near end of game

DAL - Field goal near end of half, td near end of game (2 scores down by that point though)

ARI - field goal near end of half, int at end of game

PHI - td near end of half, td near end of game

CAR - nothing

CHI - TD drive near end of half, TD drive near end of game

NYG - field goal (missed) near end of half, int near end of game

 

So...

3 Ints at the end of games (1 game was out of reach)

5 Tds at the end of games (1 game was out of reach)

3 FG drives at end of games (1 missed)

 

0 Ints near end of halves

4 Tds near the end of halves

7 FG drives near end of halves (2 missed)

[Destino]

11 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

You didnt say "in the 80s", you said 80.  And even when he was "in the 80s, it was still the upper 80s except for one year.

 

His first 3 trips to the posteseaon were underwhelming.  He'd put up numbers and get to the playoffs and not look so great.  But since then, he's been different and much better in the 5 playoff games since. Nobody questioned his regular season performance.

Meant 80s, and I'm not sure who was separating his playoff and regular season success.  His problem was the had a good team and people started wondering if he was the weak link.  Now he has a better team and look at the mighty leap his numbers took last season.  Put him on the Saints and he's not in the playoffs and likely looks mediocre (80's) again.  Did his salary prevent the from assembling the current team?  No.  

[Warhead36]

Good teams manage to keep building good teams around their franchise QBs. The Pats haven't been hampered by Brady's contract. Neither have the Steeler with Roethlisberger. Colts and Broncos built contenders around Manning. Packers have been solid contenders after Rodgers big contract whenever that was.

 

You pay your franchise QB and trust that you can draft and develop at the other positions. You don't take chances with the QB spot.

[Alexa]

Why are so many fans here have so much disdain for Kirk? Is it because of the contract and the money he's making??  Every bad throw and someone wants him benched. It's comical. 

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, Alexa said:

Why are so many fans here have so much disdain for Kirk? Is it because of the contract and the money he's making??  Every bad throw and someone wants him benched. It's comical. 

There are many people who are STILL outraged he took the job from golden boy RG3.

 

 

[petedaddy]

3 minutes ago, Alexa said:

Why are so many fans here have so much disdain for Kirk? Is it because of the contract and the money he's making??  Every bad throw and someone wants him benched. It's comical. 

 

It's frustrating to say the least