Common Kirk....I just don't know....

[PartyPosse]

Kirk was what we needed him to be. The game plan was power running mixed in with a some nice throws. This is the style of football we should be playing. Not a fan of paying a QB 25 million to run that style offense. I wish we had a QB that could run that system without asking for 25+

[DeaconBlue]

3 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Kirk was what we needed him to be. The game plan was power running mixed in with a some nice throws. This is the style of football we should be playing. Not a fan of paying a QB 25 million to run that style offense. I wish we had a QB that could run that system without asking for 25+

Who do you have in mind?

[JSSkinz]

Good job by Kirk on that last drive, he made some good throws which helped us get the win but he really shouldn't have been in that situation, the game should have been over by the end of the 3rd quarter.

 

We have to figure out whats going on with the passing game, I don't know if guys are open and not getting the ball or vice versa.

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I really hope that drive sparked a fire in Kirk.  He looked damn near Cutler like there for a while today.  He certainly didn't have his best stuff which made the final drive that more impressive.  To get it together even after playing like ****.

[clskinsfan]

Just now, DeaconBlue said:

Who do you have in mind?

There are about 6 of them in the upcoming draft that can do what Kirk did today and A LOT more than what he did. Like I said earlier. I am not gonna kill him. He led a game winning drive and made the throws he needed too at that point. But for 25+ million per year I am passing if this is what our game plans are going to be from now on.

[JSSkinz]

5 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Kirk was what we needed him to be. The game plan was power running mixed in with a some nice throws. This is the style of football we should be playing. Not a fan of paying a QB 25 million to run that style offense. I wish we had a QB that could run that system without asking for 25+

I just can't see us being able to do it consistently and against the better teams, like last week when Philly shut us down.

 

We will have to pass to win games.

[PartyPosse]

11 minutes ago, jschuck12001 said:

I just can't see us being able to do it consistently and against the better teams, like last week when Philly shut us down.

 

We will have to pass to win games.

And that's fine. A healthy mix is ideal. When the run game doesn't work Kirk ends up throwing it 35-40 times a game for lofty stats but prone to backbreaking mistakes. Games like this where it was a good mix, an the QB stats weren't anything special are what works best, especially for the players that we have. When the O-Line is cookin' like they were today, it's the best way to go and I'm hoping we see a repeat performance next week regardless of Kelly's status. 

12 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

There are about 6 of them in the upcoming draft that can do what Kirk did today and A LOT more than what he did. Like I said earlier. I am not gonna kill him. He led a game winning drive and made the throws he needed too at that point. But for 25+ million per year I am passing if this is what our game plans are going to be from now on.

And he executed it well, no doubt about that. But this game plan doesn't nor should it rely on a QB making 25-28 million a year. 

[Wyndorf25]

18 minutes ago, DeaconBlue said:

Who do you have in mind?

 

 Alex Smith?

[Destino]

20 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

There are about 6 of them in the upcoming draft that can do what Kirk did today and A LOT more than what he did. Like I said earlier. I am not gonna kill him. He led a game winning drive and made the throws he needed too at that point. But for 25+ million per year I am passing if this is what our game plans are going to be from now on.

You believe there are six QBs in the upcoming draft that will all prove to be starting NFL QBs?  That strikes me as unlikely.  

 

[zCommander]

22 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

There are about 6 of them in the upcoming draft that can do what Kirk did today and A LOT more than what he did. Like I said earlier. I am not gonna kill him. He led a game winning drive and made the throws he needed too at that point. But for 25+ million per year I am passing if this is what our game plans are going to be from now on.

 

If somehow the team gets 10 wins... who is the QB in the draft that would fall to us? But most importantly will they be able to start? Or you recommend moving up and giving up future picks to get that new shinny QB?

[Skinsinparadise]

The narrative on Kirk from most (not all) of his critics are variations of this:

 

A. Empty stats.  Big numbers don't matter if you don't do it when it counts in the clutch.

B. Bad games that result in losses are unacceptable.  

 

Today:

 

A. Kirk was OK not hot not terrible.  So so.  I didn't think he would be against that defensive front.   

B. However, he ran a great drive when it counted and was clutch.  That addresses the #1 criticism he gets.

 

The criticism was addressed almost to a tee.  However, am I surprised that some of Kirk's critics are still unimpressed, even though he had a big time drive with the game on the line.   Not at all.   

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

even though he had a big time drive with the game on the line.     

 

They are still in shock because he always craps the bed, duh.

[clskinsfan]

7 minutes ago, Destino said:

You believe there are six QBs in the upcoming draft that will all prove to be starting NFL QBs?  That strikes me as unlikely.  

 

 

2 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

If somehow the team gets 10 wins... who is the QB in the draft that would fall to us? But most importantly will they be able to start? Or you recommend moving up and giving up future picks to get that new shinny QB?

 

I dont claim to know everything or be an expert about the draft. But I do spend A LOT of time on it. And this upcoming draft has AT LEAST 6 top quality 1st and 2nd round guys in it. Will they all end up elite NFL players? Nope. But neither is Cousins. And if you draft a guy you get him for 5 years on the cheap. It is about value to me. And there is NO VALUE in paying Cousins 25+ million per season.

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The criticism was addressed almost to a tee.  However, am I surprised that some of Kirk's critics are still unimpressed, even though he had a big time drive with the game on the line.   Not at all.

I'm not really a Kirk critic. I think he's an ok NFL starter.  Maybe like 13-17 in the league.

 

On the big drive you speak, I'd have to go back and look, but about the only impressive play I can remember was a third down conversion to crowder.

 

maybe there was a QB run in there as well.

 

i dunno.  I wasn't blown away the entire game.  In the last drive, it seemed more like he did his job rather than was anything special.

 

for me, it's about paying a player their worth.  Kirk isn't a top 5 QB and isn't worth too 5 money.  I'd let him walk before paying him too 5 money.  But I'd pay him top 10 money.  Because that's basically what I think he is...

[XxSpearheadxX]

35 minutes ago, jschuck12001 said:

I just can't see us being able to do it consistently and against the better teams, like last week when Philly shut us down.

 

We will have to pass to win games.

True, but the Rams are one of the best defensive teams in the NFL. Give credit iy where it is due

[Warhead36]

Cousins has actually been more clutch than people give him credit for. I'm not saying he's Brady but he's not Romo either.

[zCommander]

What really bothers me is that the FO put us the fans in a pickle cluster ****! Now everything right or wrong Kirk does we have to put it under the microscope and dissect it all. If the FO had just locked him up for 19.5 mil we could actually enjoy the game day thread without having to resort to how much he is getting paid for those missed passes. All QB miss passes even the elite ones but with Kirk his inabilities at times are now being magnified. 

[Skinsinparadise]

27 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

They are still in shock because he always craps the bed, duh.

 

Yep.  I was at the game in 2015 when he led the drive against the Eagles (similar to today) where he had to come from behind to win the game in the closing minutes. Tampa game required clutch play at the end.   He did it against the Lions -- but the defense though gave it right back.  He has had a bunch of 4th QB big drives. Defense didn't always hold them.  Sheehan and Cooley went over them awhile back.  

 

But But But But the Carolina and the NY Giants game happened and we got some post traumatic stress.  I'm perfectly open to the idea that we need to see more clutch play from Kirk.  Like I said on this thread, he was clutch in 2015 but not so much in 2016.  Lets see this year.  

 

I think most of the Kirk supporters here are VERY balanced on the subject.  We want to see the season play out before jumping the gun positive or negative.   And I simply don't think that 5000 yard, 67% completion rate, close to top 5 rated QBR QBs just grow on trees like they are a dime a dozen.  The idea that there are a whole bunch of guys like that in the draft -- to each their own on that but my take is:   and I am a borderline NFL draft freak, I've been paying as much attention as anyone to the current crop. 

 

[zCommander]

40 minutes ago, jschuck12001 said:

I just can't see us being able to do it consistently and against the better teams, like last week when Philly shut us down.

 

We will have to pass to win games.

 

I am sorry but we will HAVE to run to win games. We don't have really good WR on the roster. If Pryor turns up his game in the next couple of weeks and somehow Doctson is a viable threat we don't have much in that department except for Crowder and broken down Reed at the moment. We ran today and better than last week and guess what - We won. You have to run close to 40% if you want to win. This takes the pressure off of Kirk and the passing offense. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

2 minutes ago, zskins said:

What really bothers me is that the FO put us the fans in a pickle cluster ****! Now everything right or wrong Kirk does we have to put it under the microscope and dissect it all. If the FO had just locked him up for 19.5 mil we could actually enjoy the game day thread without having to resort to how much he is getting paid for those missed passes. All QB miss passes even the elite ones but with Kirk his inabilities at times are now being magnified. 

 

I think we've been dissecting every little thing he does for the past two years now.  It'll only get worse this year.

 

Some of the criticism is valid, some is a bit over the top.  But at the end of this season this FO will have a very real decision to make.

 

I like Kirk, I think he's a really solid QB.  On some days he can be a top 5 QB.  

 

I just don't trust this FO to draft and develop a QB.  I just don't trust them to do anything right from a draft perspective at all, really.  

[Destino]

1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

 

 

I dont claim to know everything or be an expert about the draft. But I do spend A LOT of time on it. And this upcoming draft has AT LEAST 6 top quality 1st and 2nd round guys in it. Will they all end up elite NFL players? Nope. But neither is Cousins. And if you draft a guy you get him for 5 years on the cheap. It is about value to me. And there is NO VALUE in paying Cousins 25+ million per season.

There's no value in a proven starter over gambling on a draft pick?  Value is meaningless without factoring in risk.  If the draft pick proves bad, it means the owner hits the reset button.  Bad is also the most likely outcome of drafted QBs, something we know all too well.  

 

I disagree with your value argument.  I see a great deal of value in continuing to build the team through the draft and not creating new holes to fill.  This seems like a bad time to gamble.  

[Tsailand]

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

I am as anti signing Kirk to a long term deal as anyone on here. But I will not kill a QB of my team when he a leads a game winning drive. Yes he struggled throughout the game. But HE WON. And that is really all that matters in the end. On to his next self imposed audition.

Funny, I'm the opposite. I know Kirk is worth a top contract, but the $24M/year Kirk hasn't shown up yet this season.  Luckily for us, we didn't need Good Kirk today, just Good Colt. Colt gets paid $3M/year.

 

1 hour ago, Rex Tomb said:

He also missed a few wide OPEN receivers (Fred Davis

What are you smoking?

[clskinsfan]

10 minutes ago, Destino said:

There's no value in a proven starter over gambling on a draft pick?  Value is meaningless without factoring in risk.  If the draft pick proves bad, it means the owner hits the reset button.  Bad is also the most likely outcome of drafted QBs, something we know all too well.  

 

I disagree with your value argument.  I see a great deal of value in continuing to build the team through the draft and not creating new holes to fill.  This seems like a bad time to gamble.  

 

Value has an effect on more than one position. You want to continue to build through the draft? What is wrong with building through the draft by drafting a QB with first or second round talent. Then spending money on other parts of the team.  The game plan today was obviously designed to limit the number of opportunities that Cousins could make mistakes and turn the ball over. IT WORKED. But it wont against good football teams. And do you really want to spend 25+ million per year for a guy that you need to game plan that way for?

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

i dunno.  I wasn't blown away the entire game.  In the last drive, it seemed more like he did his job rather than was anything special.

 

for me, it's about paying a player their worth.  Kirk isn't a top 5 QB and isn't worth too 5 money.  I'd let him walk before paying him too 5 money.  But I'd pay him top 10 money.  Because that's basically what I think he is...

 

I wasn't blown away either by Kirk today.  That wasn't my point though.   Kirk has put up monster numbers for two seasons in a row.  I predict he will do so again this season.  But some of his harsher critics who I've debated with have made the case that he doesn't do it when it counts and that's what matters most.  Personally, I think that criticism is over the top and at times unfair.  But I have recognized and continue to do so that he needs to do better on that front.  

 

Today was a perfect representation of what some of his critics wanted to see:  a big money drive when the game is on the line and a win.   Some people say they don't care about big stats, they just want Kirk to win and play well when it counts.  Well, they got just that today.   My point wasn't this was one of Kirk's better games.  Clearly it wasn't.  But if he is going to be attacked for not being clutch  -- its a bit unfair for some to move the goal post to something else.  This isn't directed at you but just months months of Kirk debates.  

[clskinsfan]

1 minute ago, Tsailand said:

$24M/year Kirk

 

Good luck with that. The 24 million a year Kirk is OVER after this season.