Burgold

The immigration thread: American Melting Pot or Get off my Lawn

2,481 posts in this topic

America goes through phases of welcome and anxiety when it comes to the issue of immigration. Some groups seem to be welcome with open arms as Cubans were or people from Eastern Europe during the Cold War, but most groups Irish, Italian, Chinese, Latino, Jewish, Muslim etc. face varying degrees of hostility.

 

Most seem to acculturate and/or the culture adapts to fit them within its weave.

 

Today, we seem to be in a period of anxiety. After a prolonged recession, there was already talk in some corners about building the Great Wall of America. Now, with the Syrian refugee crisis we are seeing resistance both because of religion and a fear of terrorist extremism.

 

The question is not only what we should do and where we should stand, but what type of nation do we want to be. Are we the nation that turned away boats full of Jews fleeing the Holocaust or are we the nation that embraces those struggling and fleeing harm and despotism.

 

It's of course not a simple question there are economic, safety, and other factors that need to be weighed and measured.

At it's heart though is the question. What is America and are we the America we want to be?

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm probably one of the most outspoken critics of Islam (and really all religions) on this board.

 

But facts can't be argued against.

 

chart.png?resize=740%2C587&quality=80&st

 

Our refugee vetting process is good. I had my doubts about it, but the more I've read, the more it's obvious that we won't just let any jagoff enter our country. We have the ability to help these people escape a horrible situation and we should. You can be critical of the faith they follow, but still have the humanity in you to recognize that they are in need of help and it's better that you are able to reason and dialogue with them in a secular society instead of letting them die at the hands of barbarians.

Edited by No Excuses
9 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Terrorism is all about inciting fear and over reactions.  The US has roughly 2700 fatalities monthly due to car crashes.  We all still hop in our cars and rarely give it a second thought.  The reaction given the risk is totally out of whack regarding terrorism.  To give up some of the basis of who we are for such small odds is just illogical. 

Edited by HOF44
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

America was founded on the right to Religious Freedom and getting away from oppression. So what are we doing now? Trying to force religion on those that believe in something different and turning away people trying to flee from oppression.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is pretty hotly contested amongst me and my fellow evangelicals right now. Fear can't be allowed to destroy compassion.

6 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think this article is worth re-posting, along with the quoted snippet regarding the process.  http://www.vice.com/read/is-it-legal-for-the-governors-of-more-than-a-dozen-states-to-refuse-to-accept-syrian-refugees-116

 

 

 

After you register with UNHCR, they get referred to resettlement to a particular country. So far I think they've referred about 17, 18, maybe 19,000 Syrians to the United States. Fewer than 2,000 had arrived by the end of the last fiscal year. It takes a long time to process people. We put them through so many layers of security; every refugee has to have a face-to-face interview with the Department of Homeland Security. They're compared against three or four security databases. They have to tell their story again and again. And then if the United States has, in its allocation for refugee resettlement, a place for them, they go through their medical history, their travel arrangements. This process usually takes 18 to 24 months to complete.

 

Combined with No Excuses' chart above, this paints a picture of a complex process that is fairly robust and successful.

 

If there was a clear point of weakness, I could understand temporary pauses to implement fixes, but there do not appear to be any major points of weakness.  Keep vigilant, but otherwise proceed as normal.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is pretty hotly contested amongst me and my fellow evangelicals right now. Fear can't be allowed to destroy compassion.

 

What exactly is being contested? The possibility of a terrorist coming in with said refugees?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's easier to get a tourist visa than it is to get refugee status. No ISIS member with any brains would try to sneak in as a refugee when there's a much easier route.

Edited by justice98

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What exactly is being contested? The possibility of a terrorist coming in with said refugees?

Oh yeah. Crazy stuff.

Edited by Zguy28

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People against taking refugees are throwing every excuse they can come up with out on facebook. Man, I can't wait to have an alternative to Facebook next year so I don't have to connect with people that way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not about keeping refugees out in my opinion, the biggest argument I see made is that we are allowing these refugees in without assisting our own.  There's tens of thousands of homeless vets or homeless children and families in our own country.  Why not take the resources given to the refugees to come here and distribute to our own?

 

Not to mention, it's already been found that ISIS is sneaking/attempting to sneak in to other countries as refugees.

 

All it takes is a couple terrorists to come in as refugees for another 9/11 to happen.  If you're fine with that then so be it but I'd rather not take that chance.

 

Now if we are talking about bringing in children refugees, that's a different story.  Bring all of the children over that you want.

Edited by steve09ru

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The knee jerk right wing (not all but a vocal and powerful faction) always seems to be happy punishing the majority to make sure that the miniscule minority with bad intentions doesn't get over on them.  

 

The screeds about the food stamp recipient buying lobster right in front of them in the checkout line are just the same.  They were against letting the women and children immigrants from central america last year because some of them had cooties for heaven's sake.

 

How did they grow up to be such pussies in the same country I grew up in?

 

This right here is one of the saddest examples of lousy Americans I ever saw.  Turns my stomach.

 

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/07/02/327738660/protesters-turn-back-buses-of-immigrant-detainees-near-san-diego

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not about keeping refugees out in my opinion, the biggest argument I see made is that we are allowing these refugees in without assisting our own.  There's tens of thousands of homeless vets or homeless children and families in our own country.  Why not take the resources given to the refugees to come here and distribute to our own?

I've yet to hear a really good explanation for that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not about keeping refugees out in my opinion, the biggest argument I see made is that we are allowing these refugees in without assisting our own.  There's tens of thousands of homeless vets or homeless children and families in our own country.  Why not take the resources given to the refugees to come here and distribute to our own?

We give billions a year to Israel a very rich country.  Nothing against Israel and I wouldn't turn it down either.  Just an example of the one of the thousands of others areas we waste money on that could be better spent helping vets and Americans. 

 

Immigrants in your scenario are just the very lowest of the low hanging fruit around.  Nobody with any power standing up for them.

Edited by KAOSkins

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not about keeping refugees out in my opinion, the biggest argument I see made is that we are allowing these refugees in without assisting our own.  There's tens of thousands of homeless vets or homeless children and families in our own country.  Why not take the resources given to the refugees to come here and distribute to our own?

 

 

 

 

 

Well, it might have to do with the fact that our own are merely poor, but these refugees literally are getting murdered by Isis?  Just a guess.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not about keeping refugees out in my opinion, the biggest argument I see made is that we are allowing these refugees in without assisting our own.  There's tens of thousands of homeless vets or homeless children and families in our own country.  Why not take the resources given to the refugees to come here and distribute to our own?

 

Not to mention, it's already been found that ISIS is sneaking/attempting to sneak in to other countries as refugees.

 

See, my issue with that argument is when it's made at any other time of the year, people bring up entitlements. They don't want to fund welfare and all that stuff. But talk about bringing in refugees and suddenly that's their argument.

 

I read that in 2012, a single refugee in Florida is given $180/month. We're not giving these refugees much.

 

And for your last sentence, I'd advise you to look at No Excuses chart.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We give billions a year to Israel a very rich country.  Nothing against Israel and I wouldn't turn it down either.  Just an example of the one of the thousands of others areas we waste money on that could be better spent helping vets and Americans. 

 

Immigrants in your scenario are just the very lowest of the low hanging fruit around.  Nobody with any power standing up for them.

And I agree.  A lot of things we don't do right and waste money on when we could be helping our own.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.