Xfinity News: AP sources: Navy SEALs punished for secrets breach

NOTE---I originally wanted to post this here...

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?368824-Business-Insider-Fox-News-Outs-The-Navy-SEAL-Who-Wrote-An-Anonymous-Book-On-The-Bin-Laden-Raid/page5&highlight=SEAL

...as I didn't want to start a thread for it, and thought it was going to be related to this previous incident anyway.

But it's a separate matter, and giving the continuing trend of actual SEALs (or former members) voluntarily being more active in media involvement (movies/books/TV/ video games) and various related issues that arise, I think it is worthwhile.

AP sources: Navy SEALs punished for secrets breach

http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20121109/US.SEALs.Punished/

WASHINGTON — Seven members of the secretive Navy SEAL Team 6, including one involved in the mission to get Osama bin Laden, have been punished for disclosing classified information, senior Navy officials said Thursday.

Four other SEALs are under investigation for similar alleged violations, one official said.

The SEALs are alleged to have divulged classified information to the maker of a video game called "Medal of Honor: Warfighter."

Each of the seven received a punitive letter of reprimand and a partial forfeiture of pay for two months. Those actions generally hinder a military member's career.

The deputy commander of Naval Special Warfare Command, Rear Adm. Garry Bonelli, issued a statement acknowledging that nonjudicial punishments had been handed out for misconduct, but he did not offer any details.

<more at link>

You've got to be kidding me. Noone outside of the SEALs and their obviously inept leadership knows what they divulged. Now, that game can be scrutinized by terrorist cells for actual intel or whatever was in it. Somethings hide better in plain sight if noone knows what they are looking at. Also, it must not have been that much of a secret as they were given the lowest level of punishment required by UCMJ - an article 15. They probably had to cut the Admiral's lawn for 45 days also.

Stupid stupid stupid upper military management.

You've got to be kidding me. Noone outside of the SEALs and their obviously inept leadership knows what they divulged. Now, that game can be scrutinized by terrorist cells for actual intel or whatever was in it. Somethings hide better in plain sight if noone knows what they are looking at. Also, it must not have been that much of a secret as they were given the lowest level of punishment required by UCMJ - an article 15. They probably had to cut the Admiral's lawn for 45 days also.

Stupid stupid stupid upper military management.

So, they shouldn't be punished for violating a strict confidentiality policy? That wasn't intended to be snarky or anything, I just see it as kind of a black & white issue. You break policy (even if it hasn't or is unlikely to compromise security) you get punished.

There are clearances for a reason...the first of the reimagined moh sucked as well.

So, they shouldn't be punished for violating a strict confidentiality policy? That wasn't intended to be snarky or anything, I just see it as kind of a black & white issue. You break policy (even if it hasn't or is unlikely to compromise security) you get punished.

Agreed, these guys are about discipline and secrecy, they literally know where the bodies are buried, they know about the tech that is secret to the rest of us and they know it's their job to stay silent about it....especially Team 6, common guys what were you thinking?

I always get a chuckle when SEALs talk about being quiet professionals. They are typically bad ass warriors but quiet professionals may not be the best characterization. That being said I think the punishment looks about right and I suspect that the actual damage done to national security in this particular instance was pretty low. Did they show them the assault rifles they used? The biggest "secret" about the execution of that raid was revealed when the stealth helo crashed.

I always get a chuckle when SEALs talk about being quiet professionals. They are typically bad ass warriors but quiet professionals may not be the best characterization. That being said I think the punishment looks about right and I suspect that the actual damage done to national security in this particular instance was pretty low. Did they show them the assault rifles they used? The biggest "secret" about the execution of that raid was revealed when the stealth helo crashed.

I lived a few hundred yards from Seal Team six for 2 years on base. Sold a used car to one of them. Grew up with another. I think quiet pro fits, or at least used to

Being ex-Navy, I have an extreme amount of respect and pride for our sailors, airmen, and especially Seals, but I expect more professionalism from them. What DaGoonie said was spot on...some things hide better in plain sight. I can understand how they would like a video game about them to be as real as possible, but sheesh...they (of all people) know what's at stake here. An Article 15 doesn't go far enough, imho.

added: I got a page 13 (warning/counseling) for wearing civilian clothes without proper permission, for cryin' out loud.

Just saw on the news that the punishment makes them ineligible for promotion and effectively ends their careers. They didn't mention an Article 15, just said that they got an official letter of reprimand and docked half their pay for two months.

I lived a few hundred yards from Seal Team six for 2 years on base. Sold a used car to one of them. Grew up with another. I think quiet pro fits, or at least used to

---------- Post added November-9th-2012 at 06:49 AM ----------

Just saw on the news that the punishment makes them ineligible for promotion and effectively ends their careers. They didn't mention an Article 15, just said that they got an official letter of reprimand and docked half their pay for two months.

Article 15 is likely the tool they used to take half their pay for 2 months. I am not aware of any other way to do that outside of courts martial.

I lived a few hundred yards from Seal Team six for 2 years on base. Sold a used car to one of them. Grew up with another. I think quiet pro fits, or at least used to

I eat breakfast every day 200 yards from 3,000 Cubans who are trained to kill me. So don't think you can come in here in your ******y white sailor suit, flash a badge, and intimidate me.

(Sorry. Had to. Actually, prior to your post, I was reflecting on how many posters in this thread seemed to know so much about these people.)

I guess the brass got tired of the SEALs ego-stroking.

Article 15 is likely the tool they used to take half their pay for 2 months. I am not aware of any other way to do that outside of courts martial.

Yep, they hand 15's out like candy. I nearly got one for getting a sun burn.

So, they shouldn't be punished for violating a strict confidentiality policy? That wasn't intended to be snarky or anything, I just see it as kind of a black & white issue. You break policy (even if it hasn't or is unlikely to compromise security) you get punished.

My problem with this is that I seriously doubt these guys provided anything that would remotely compromise the safety of one of their brothers in arms. The White House bent over backwards to accommodate filmmaker Kathryn Bigelow in the upcoming Bin Laden movie Zero Dark Thirty. She was given what I consider to be unprecedented access to the CIA and US Special Operations. I get that that if rules were broken then punishment should be applied notion, but said punishment should also be fair in nature and at a level commensurate with the charge being levied against them.

Bottom line for me: these guys careers should not be ruined by this.

I eat breakfast every day 200 yards from 3,000 Cubans who are trained to kill me. So don't think you can come in here in your ******y white sailor suit, flash a badge, and intimidate me.

(Sorry. Had to. Actually, prior to your post, I was reflecting on how many posters in this thread seemed to know so much about these people.)

Also, at another point, dubbed in "Forget you, Harold!".

I guess the brass got tired of the SEALs ego-stroking.

It feels that way to me, too. Ever since they killed Bin Laden, you've seen one SEAL after the other on cloud 9 talking about the presidential race, how the operation actually happened, a lot of things I've never heard them come out and talk about before. Doesn't matter how I feel about it, if they release classified info for any reason, they have to be punished. That's just standard procedure.

My problem with this is that I seriously doubt these guys provided anything that would remotely compromise the safety of one of their brothers in arms. The White House bent over backwards to accommodate filmmaker Kathryn Bigelow in the upcoming Bin Laden movie Zero Dark Thirty. She was given what I consider to be unprecedented access to the CIA and US Special Operations. I get that that if rules were broken then punishment should be applied notion, but said punishment should also be fair in nature and at a level commensurate with the charge being levied against them.

Bottom line for me: these guys careers should not be ruined by this.

So, dead is the saying "loose lips sink ships"?

You've got to be kidding me. Noone outside of the SEALs and their obviously inept leadership knows what they divulged. Now, that game can be scrutinized by terrorist cells for actual intel or whatever was in it. Somethings hide better in plain sight if noone knows what they are looking at. Also, it must not have been that much of a secret as they were given the lowest level of punishment required by UCMJ - an article 15. They probably had to cut the Admiral's lawn for 45 days also.

Stupid stupid stupid upper military management.

Yeah, those guys who command SEAL teams are just idiot middle managers.. dumb morons without the knowledge you have of how to manage a covert team.

Your arrogance is funny.

Bottom line, if command felt that they should not be divulging info, than none of us, and i mean NONE of us have the knowledge of the situation that would allow us to second guess them at all.

But hey,, take time from your morning coffee to tell us why they're so stupid again.

~Bang

(Sorry. Had to. Actually, prior to your post, I was reflecting on how many posters in this thread seemed to know so much about these people.)

I'll go the other way, I know zero Navy Seals; my knowledge of them is limited to the recent killing of Bin Laden and G.I. Jane or Jesse Ventura. Closest I ever came to knowing one of them was a kid I went to high school with who wanted to be a Navy Seal, that was his end goal. I would guess he was something like 5'6" and 140 pounds...in shape, but I always assumed there were size requirements for these sorts of jobs, as in, you couldn't be picked up and military pressed by someone of average size. Probably all the not-to-scale GI Joe's I played with as a kid made me think that way.

Part of the warrior ethos is looking out for your own. They threw these guys to the wolves over what? Proper fire commands? How to breach and clear a room? 9 line medevac commands? You can google all of that. I've played the game in question and have observed nothing of importance with relation to national security. Obviously, I know more about our tactics than some converted sheep farmer now terrorist cell leader, but I am by no means an expert. Rather than ruin the careers of these accomplished warriors, who are obviously better soldiers than any of us on here could ever hope to be, they should have handled it differently. (I will concede they are human and are capable of judgement errors - potentially in this case) Why call attention to this "breach", and I use that term loosely. If there is something in that game, I doubt very seriously that the Department of the Navy or SOCOM would have allowed it to be disseminated. Every time the media was present, in my case, we were grilled on what to and what not to say. All we did was ride around and interdict enemy freedom of movement. Nothing compared to what these guys do. I'm not condoning the SEALs actions, just the way in which punishment was handed out. The SEALs are more than an elite unit, they inspire our youth to enlist. They keep bad guys in hiding all over the world. Keep the punishment in house and out of the publics eyes.

I respect your opinion Bang, more than most on here. I just disagree with you on this point Sir.

Edited: I re-read the article and I completely missed the fact that they didn't get clearance first. I will place myself on the no new post list for a few days so that I don't overreact to subject matter I missed. Thank you Dan for pointing that out.

"The two main complaints against the SEALs were that they did not seek the permission of their command to take part in the video project and that they showed the video designers some of their specially designed combat equipment unique to their unit, said a senior military official."

Why are these Seals even talking to video game makers? Especially without clearing it from command first. Sorry, but that seems to be a serious lack of judgement.

I've read a few of Richard Marcinko's books:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Marcinko

http://www.dickmarcinko.com/

He's the guy who named seal team 6 and was it first commander. He comments in the preface of each book how he skirts the powers that be with his books because of how close he gets to describing actual events. He's been doing this for a while.

You've got to be kidding me. Noone outside of the SEALs and their obviously inept leadership knows what they divulged. Now, that game can be scrutinized by terrorist cells for actual intel or whatever was in it. Somethings hide better in plain sight if noone knows what they are looking at. Also, it must not have been that much of a secret as they were given the lowest level of punishment required by UCMJ - an article 15. They probably had to cut the Admiral's lawn for 45 days also.

Stupid stupid stupid upper military management.

Well... it's the Navy... so it's not an Article 15, it's Captain's Mast.

But, you have to nip this thing in the butt. The point of doing something like this is to remind these guys that they are a clandestine group. They've gotten a lot of press the last year plus because of what they've accomplished, but at the end of the day, they need to realize that they hinder their ability to be great by doing what they've been doing.

You are right, this is a pee pee slap and not a harsh punishment, but it's also a wake up call to the rest of the members of the unit to quite ****ing around or it will get worse.

My problem with this is that I seriously doubt these guys provided anything that would remotely compromise the safety of one of their brothers in arms. The White House bent over backwards to accommodate filmmaker Kathryn Bigelow in the upcoming Bin Laden movie Zero Dark Thirty. She was given what I consider to be unprecedented access to the CIA and US Special Operations. I get that that if rules were broken then punishment should be applied notion, but said punishment should also be fair in nature and at a level commensurate with the charge being levied against them.

Bottom line for me: these guys careers should not be ruined by this.

Bottom line for me is that judging from the punishment, this is probably about not getting permission before consulting on a subject. That's an important standard to maintain if you want to keep ANY secrets. At some point you have to draw the line before real damage is done. This is the line and I have no problem with it.

---------- Post added November-9th-2012 at 03:40 PM ----------

Yeah, those guys who command SEAL teams are just idiot middle managers.. dumb morons without the knowledge you have of how to manage a covert team.

Your arrogance is funny.

Bottom line, if command felt that they should not be divulging info, than none of us, and i mean NONE of us have the knowledge of the situation that would allow us to second guess them at all.

But hey,, take time from your morning coffee to tell us why they're so stupid again.

~Bang

Yeah, That post got to me as well. He probably thinks we should let Bradly Manning off the hook too. After all, every 18 year old punk with a clearance should be able to decide what information should be public and what should be classified. Hell, let's just let everyone in the military do what they want! We don't need no stinkin rules!

Part of the this punishment is public humiliation. Seals can't like getting clowned by every news outlet on the planet.