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Per Rappaport, Jack Del Rio/ Vieselmeyer Fired. Ron will run defense for rest of Season

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Captain Wiggles

Captain Wiggles

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Posted
10 minutes ago, bh32 said:

his problem is he kept bad D coordinators..

 

Well that and Bruce essentially dismantling Grudens offense and failing to replace key players. 

 

I still find it odd that for all his time in the NFL Riveras coaching network is/was inferior to Grudens. Grudens offensive staff > Riveras defensive staff. 🤷‍♂️

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Captain Wiggles

Captain Wiggles

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3 minutes ago, Riggo-toni said:

That's because Sean McVay was running it.  We were first in the NFL in no third and outs.

 

Gruden retained McVey tho from Shanahans staff. Something Rivera was unwilling to do with Kevin O'Connell. 

 

Instead Rivera brought in a lot of the coaches and players that got him fired in Carolina. Just a brilliant strategy. 🤣

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BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen

BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen

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2 hours ago, Captain Wiggles said:

 

Gruden retained McVey tho from Shanahans staff. Something Rivera was unwilling to do with Kevin O'Connell. 

 

Instead Rivera brought in a lot of the coaches and players that got him fired in Carolina. Just a brilliant strategy. 🤣

Typical of the good ol boy network...people hire people they're familiar with, even if that familiarity only led to failure...Rivera is one of the worst practitioners of this principle.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted (edited)

As I mentioned in another discussion, Jay is no fan of Rivera and Del Rio, that's clear in his podcasts appearances.

 

If my math is correct if Ron wins one more game for the rest of the season he will match Jay's record, winning percentage wise, if he loses out Jay ends up with a better record here.

 

And with Rivera pounding his chest about how he turned this franchise around, it makes it a bit comical.  Yes Rivera endured much and I respect him for that.  He was a nice guy working for a douche.  And I respect him for that, too.  But when he got here through today he likes to talk about turning this franchise around and how its so much better than it was before.  That's half true IMO.  Yes the building -- the business side is much classier.  That's great.  But as for the team-culture, its not much different at all and he's part of that.

 

IMO his legacy here for me and I noticed some fans are ruined because of how insufferable his rhetoric along with his work has been this season.  For me Jay comes off way more likeable now than Rivera.  And I never thought I'd think that. 

 

But for me the latest being Ron preaching again about turning around the culture and explaining now that a better culture isn't about winning but "doing things the right way".  Give me a break.  That to me is up there with winning off the field from Bruce.  Then we got the send me my Superbowl ring comment.  Him being defiant that this doesn't need to be a winning season even though its season 4 for him when he stressed before season 3 that he knew he had to win that year but then when he didn't he just shrugged it off by saying they made progress.   Acting like this is the youngest roster in the league when it is far from it.  

 

If cutlure is defined as being a nice guy in the sea of working for a sexiest douche.  Yes.  But otherwise he sets the tone for the team and if culture doesn't mean what it means for teams like the Ravens-Steelers which is winning than that seeps into the organization in a bad way.  Ditto the culture of excuse making and scapegoating  -- ala getting rid of Chase is and addition by subtraction, calling out Jamin, Forbes, etc.  It's always someone's fault.  Now he goes to the easiest well left and puts it on his buddy Dan Snyder.  

 

Ron to me ends his tenure in an insufferable track.  I was ready to say bye to Jay, too back then.  But Jay's personality at the end wasn't to me anywhere near as insufferable as Ron.

 

Between all of that.  The I looked at the anayltics myself as to Wentz.  The we were eliminated comment.  Him telling the national broadcasters at half time during the debacle against the Bears that he didn't say a word to the players.  Not challenging game changing plays that arguably cost them the Eagles game.  Botching the clock.  Looking stoically on the sidelines and doing nothing during games.  Getting swept by the Giants including by a no name backup who lives with his parents.  Ignoring the O line to basically "upgrade" the defense and that defense is dead last in points allowed. 

 

Ron is working himself into Jim Zorn territory.  He's not stupid so I am guessing he has some recognition of his legacy is being shot to hell this year and is now scrambiling to save it and has started with using his national media contacts to help him. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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CjSuAvE22

CjSuAvE22

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Biggest difference between Ron and Jay Gruden is Jay never got what he wanted while he was here, initially he was forced to use RgIII, and in the end it was Alex smith old and no linger the game manager he was…Rivera had a free reign and he couldn’t do much better which is why he needs to go and must be as far away from any role on this team as possible.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Biggest difference between Ron and Jay Gruden is Jay never got what he wanted while he was here, initially he was forced to use RgIII, and in the end it was Alex smith old and no linger the game manager he was…Rivera had a free reign and he couldn’t do much better which is why he needs to go and must be as far away from any role on this team as possible.

 

That's a good point.  I don't think Jay was a good head coach but considering everything he might have been better than Ron.    Ron has full control of this roster.  Jay did not.    

 

Scot McCloughan said Jay was the best evaluator of any coach he worked with.  Maybe Jay isn't special as an evaluator but I suspect he'd still be better at it than Ron. 

 

Jay and Ron had some of the same faults including they didn't build a good assistant coaching crew albiet Jay did have O'Connell and Sean for a spell so Jay's might have been better. 

 

Jay at least came off like a dude going full speed for better or worse.   Ron comes off like a half speed guy especially this year.

 

Jay didn't have the number of dumb sounding comments that Ron has made.  Ron is giving Vinny and Bruce a run for their money for making idiotic comments that match the dysfunction of the team where you think yeah if this is the thinking from the "brass" it makes sense that this team sucks. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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KDawg

KDawg

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Posted

Jay’s problem, as a head guy, was he was too friendly with the players. Not that being friendly is a bad thing. Rivera, for instance, is good with the players for all of the other shortcomings. He is professional, adult and understanding. He is a patriarchal. A leader of men. 
 

There are other types, like Mike McDaniel, who come across more as an older brother… but one that should be respected and trusted.

 

Gruden came across more like a little brother. A guy who players could bully a little and didn’t fully respect as a man.

 

That is where Gruden lost it. If he learns to be more patriarchal in his time away I think he could be a really good head coach again. He is smart, understands football and was more productive than he had any business being given his situation. 
 

He has head coach experience as well. I think he’s going to bounce back at some point, assuming he learned from his first stint in a horrendous situation.

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justice98

justice98

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Captain Wiggles said:

 

Gruden retained McVey tho from Shanahans staff. Something Rivera was unwilling to do with Kevin O'Connell. 

 

Instead Rivera brought in a lot of the coaches and players that got him fired in Carolina. Just a brilliant strategy. 🤣

 

He didn't just retain him, he retained him and elevated him from the tight ends coach.  I know McVay credits Gruden a lot for his coaching development, but I don't think Gruden gets a much credit outside him for helping mentor McVay.  People act like McVay carried Gruden.  Make no mistake, that offense was Gruden's.  And he still called the plays, if I'm not mistaken.  It was an Andy Reid/Bienemy situation.

Edited by justice98
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RansomthePasserby

RansomthePasserby

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23 minutes ago, KDawg said:

That is where Gruden lost it. If he learns to be more patriarchal in his time away I think he could be a really good head coach again. He is smart, understands football and was more productive than he had any business being given his situation. 

 

He has head coach experience as well. I think he’s going to bounce back at some point, assuming he learned from his first stint in a horrendous situation.

The trolling tweets give me the impression he hasn’t grown into the patriarchal persona yet. 

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Conn

Conn

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13 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

He didn't just retain him, he retained him and elevated him from the tight ends coach.  I know McVay credits Gruden a lot for his coaching development, but I don't think Gruden gets a much credit outside him for helping mentor McVay.  People act like McVay carried Gruden.  Make no mistake, that offense was Gruden's.  And he still called the plays, if I'm not mistaken.  It was an Andy Reid/Bienemy situation.


He eventually did hand playcalling to McVay. That’s the season that got McVay hired away as a HC 

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BatteredFanSyndrome

BatteredFanSyndrome

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I’m pretty sure Jay is no longer interested in coaching.  Perhaps he just accepted it was too much of an uphill battle after his brother being blackballed.  I think he’s shooting for a more prominent media personality gig.  He’s expressed on G&D that he enjoys playing golf and talking football now, as opposed to living at the facility under stress.

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Warhead36

Warhead36

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55 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I’m pretty sure Jay is no longer interested in coaching.  Perhaps he just accepted it was too much of an uphill battle after his brother being blackballed.  I think he’s shooting for a more prominent media personality gig.  He’s expressed on G&D that he enjoys playing golf and talking football now, as opposed to living at the facility under stress.

Yep I've heard the same thing. He got his money and can just enjoy his life now.

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Voice_of_Reason

Voice_of_Reason

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, skinfan2k said:

Gruden was handcuffed but that offense with Kirk, Garcon, and DJax and Jordan Reed was sick 

which was coordinated and called by McVay, as a first and second year OC.  
 

12 hours ago, Captain Wiggles said:

Rivera has been so awful I actually miss Gruden. 🤣


the rehabilitation job the local media has done for Jay’s image makes me think he is paying them.  
 

In 4 years, is anybody wasn’t to hear what Ron has to say about anything? No.  And they’re going to have massively similar records.  And you could argue Ron would be more worth listening to because he has 100 wins, coached a 15-1 team to the SB and played for the 85 bears.  He’s a football lifer, played on one of the best teams in football history, and has been a coach FG for 30 years.
 

But is anybody in the area going to invite him for an image shine after he’s fired? No.  


Why? Because that’s just not what’s done with failed coaches in their local market. 
 

But for some reason, and if payment is not involved o have no idea why, our local media have tried to rehabilitate Jay’s statute to something of local football expert.  
 

Jay was a good offensive guy whose greatest achievement was making Dalton look like a respectable starting QB.  He was a nepotism hire through the Allen/Gruden relationship, and was an actively bad HC.  He was not just the victim of his circumstances. His opinion has as much merit as Ron’s will in a few years.  Which is to say, none.  But for some reason, our media has participated in a massive propaganda and rehabilitation job to brainwash smart people to think there is any reason to listen to any word which comes out of his mouth.  
 

10 hours ago, spjunkies said:

Not gonna lie I'm a fan of troll Gruden ☺️


Having said all of the above, I also am a huge fan of troll Gruden. I find it funny.  He should have just been a standup comic.  
 

37 minutes ago, Conn said:


He eventually did hand playcalling to McVay. That’s the season that got McVay hired away as a HC 

 

McVay took over the offense entirely in 2015.  Called plays in 2015 and 2016, then was hired by the Rams. 

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Leonard Washington

Leonard Washington

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Posted
59 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I’m pretty sure Jay is no longer interested in coaching.  Perhaps he just accepted it was too much of an uphill battle after his brother being blackballed.  I think he’s shooting for a more prominent media personality gig.  He’s expressed on G&D that he enjoys playing golf and talking football now, as opposed to living at the facility under stress.

Commandos are probably still paying him. 

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Conn

Conn

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10 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

He would have been paid out when fired and it’s been 4 years, nobody is paying him.  
 

But he had plenty of money if he’s not stupid with it he doesn’t have to work for the rest of his life.  


Coaches “guaranteed” salaries aren’t paid out in a lump sum when they’re fired if they have multiple years left. They actually have to show they’re looking for coaching work in order to keep getting paid each year (unless their contract has no offsets, but that’s more common in college football than in the NFL). This came up when Kliff Kingsbury disappeared to Thailand for a while and had to come back to pretend to look for coaching work in order to keep getting his big Cardinals contract lol. 

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted (edited)

The reason why Jay comes off well on the radio and podcasts is because he comes off likeable.  And I know some think we know more football than Jay could ever -- but when you listen to him its obvious that its not true. 

 

It's Ron who comes off Zornish at times with how he comes off.   At times clueless and a beat behind.  Jay isn't a leader of men but he doesn't come off buffoonish when he talks.  That's not because the DC media pays him to think on his feet and come off well -- its because he can actually think on his feet.   Whereas Ron struggles with it.

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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veteranskinsfan

veteranskinsfan

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Posted

Switching over to defense.  Redskins had two opportunities to hire Vic Fangio as a defensive coordinator.  Instead Miami hired him as defensive coordinator so as we

watch them play Miami and lose let that fact sink in.  Also before Fangio went to Denver we could have tried to get him too.  There was probably at least one other

chance as well but I can't recall the exact circumstances.   Maybe Ron was worried that if he were ineffective then the owner would name Fangio Head Coach.  Fangio

did a great job with 49ers defense when they went to the Super Bowl.  He is another example of being a better coordinator than head coach.

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