Regarding the future of the ES Community...

[LD0506]

Well this has been interesting

 

I haven't commented because I only know enough about the actual nutz n boltz of the infrastructure involved to say something sideways and look like an ass, but it sounds like there are enough savvy people here that this could actually be a possibility. When you start talking about the actual costs and putting numbers out there, it feels more real.

 

I am curious how an approach in say the offseason might be received. I always had the impression that LilDannyBoy wanted some control here mainly because of his microdick ego issues, perhaps the new ownership would be interested in divesting.

 

Not everyone here has the boat brag budget that some do, but I'm sure that all together we could raise the cash and keep it stocked.

[Tarhog]

On 11/9/2023 at 8:53 PM, tshile said:

I loved BGO

 

Just not 2 particular people, and they weren’t owners/mods or anything like that

 

but was a cool site

 

tshile - you are a class act.

 

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Tarhog

[skinsmarydu]

Thanks for your invitation to come back, but I'll NEVER be on the "right side of the highway" as you describe it.  

I'm a freedom loving bleeding heart liberal, and my opinions weren't ever welcome there.  

[Tarhog]

We haven't allowed political topics in over 5 years, because we couldn't find a way to manage member on member warfare. Most of our 'righties' are long gone, so there were casualties on both sides. Kudos if ES has been able to manage it without the fallout. We could never figure it out. So much more fun now that we steer clear of politics and 'social' issues.

[Skinsfan1311]

14 hours ago, Riggo#44 said:

Does his name rhyme with "fart"

Around 20 years, or so, ago....my one and only ban was by this character that you're describing.  If memory serves, it was because I was bad-mouthing the owner😅

 

[tshile]

They manage it by having a few of us that don’t mind being the piñatas. 
 

@Tarhog you’ll find it humorous that im one of republican nut jobs here, according to the others (not all but many)

 

I’m only like half joking. 

 

 

 

 

[skinsmarydu]

2 minutes ago, tshile said:

They manage it by having a few of us that don’t mind being the piñatas. 
 

@Tarhog you’ll find it humorous that im one of republican nut jobs here, according to the others (not all but many)

 

I’m only like half joking. 

 

 

 

 

You're not even remotely close to being a nut job...I respect your knowledge and opinions.

[PokerPacker]

58 minutes ago, tshile said:

They manage it by having a few of us that don’t mind being the piñatas. 
 

@Tarhog you’ll find it humorous that im one of republican nut jobs here, according to the others (not all but many)

 

I’m only like half joking.

Throw on some LARPing gear and you're indistinguishable from M_SF

[LadySkinsFan]

I tried BGO but it was too misogynistic for me so I left. 

 

The Tailgate is much better with a few posters making comments occasionally. In The Stadium misogyny posts are more prevalent so I basically read there, and for the reason most posters there are much more cognizant of football than me because I don't pay as much attention to team members as before I moved. I don't get it see many games anymore down here Texas way.

 

Tarhog, I appreciate your technical advice on what you did with BGO, costs, and all.

Edited November 11, 2023 by LadySkinsFan

[Tarhog]

****

Edited November 22, 2023 by Tarhog

[Die Hard]

4 hours ago, Tarhog said:

 

tshile - you are a class act. Every site has it's 'A+' people, and folks who are difficult to keep on the right side of the highway  

 

ES crew... some thoughts having done exactly what you guys are talking about doing on BGObsession.

 

I don't know anything about Invision so can't speak to it. As far as top-tier forum softwares, Xenforo is probably the most popular (and what we ultimately moved to).  vBulletin is dead, take them off your list. Xenforo has an extremely active updates system, not only with their core software, but with member/developer created add-ons. They have a member forum that is really active and when you run into problems, you can and will find answers and help quickly.

 

It will be more expensive than you think - we spend $700+ per quarter and the bandwidth our moderate traffic requires is much smaller than what you would require as big as ES membership is. I would do a lot of research on hosting companies. That is one area you don't want to scrimp on - because there's nothing worse than paying hefty hosting fees, and then have your site go down frequently. Various other costs required beyond the server/hosting costs (and I apologize as some of these have been mentioned):

 

- Custom Skin. You could use the default software 'skin' but you won't be happy with that. You'll want to by a design that appeals to you and probably customize colors, layouts, etc... You CAN do it yourself, but there are major learning curves no matter what software you would use, so you may end up paying someone to do the site design.

 

- Extra security/firewalls. I highly recommend you add a professional firewall/security system. We use Sucuri which is one of the best decisions we made as site owners. As someone referenced, these softwares have holes in their security and you can and probably will get hacked unless you have a full-time devoted firewall/security system in place.

 

- Add-ons. Most forum softwares are just bare bones 'forums'. If you want a 'Home Page' or landing page, those are usually extra. The current version of Xenforo doesn't come with one, but there are several developer-created ones you can add. There are also add-ons for video libraries, Chat room software, blog software, and 100 other bells and whistles. We have probably spent upwards of $5000 on all of the add-ons we've put into place. Most of these are one-time fees, unless you run into problems and need support (most add-on developers will give you free support for a year, after that you need to re-subscribe).

 

- URL. You will have to have a dedicated url that is yours and that is an ongoing modest cost. You will likely find the URL you *want* is already owned by someone sitting on it and should expect to have to pay for the rights to acquire it. That can be a little or a lot depending on what it is and who owns it.

 

- Upgrades. You will want to stay up with the most current version of your forum software as well as any associated add-ons. Those upgrades are usually free. It is not difficult to manage these - if you have folks who know what they are doing. Otherwise, you will have to pay someone to manage.

 

We eventually went to an 'Ownership Group' with recurring Paypal payments because it was becoming inordinately expensive for just a few of us to manage. Ads can help defer costs, but will probably come close to covering your expenses.

 

Another big consideration is how the software works on mobile devices. Less than 1/2 our traffic visits the site via a laptop or PC. So whatever you were to choose, it's got to be mobile-friendly. When it comes to Xenforo, of course the site is accessible by phone or tablet, but Xenforo also has a mobile app which is awesome because members can set up notifications/alerts they'll get directly on their phone (such as when someone has responded to their thread, or sent them an IM). 

 

I will not bore you with more detail but I would be glad to share our experiences. One of the biggest things to consider is, there is a big learning curve with going down that path. I am a self-made webmaster now - and not being a Mensa member, that should tell you it's certainly do-able. But it is probably a bigger curve than you realize. If you don't have a couple folks willing to really take ownership of the technical aspects of building, running, and maintaining the site, you will have to pay people to do it for you. I am happy to share more details via IM if anyone wants more.

 

If you want to get an idea of what the current capabilities of the Xenforo software (and developer add-ons) is, check out our site at https://www.BGObsession.com. We do use some ads, but members who donate are given an ad-free experience with a lot more bells and whistles and (duh) no ads.

 

Good luck whatever you all decide to do.

 

 

Honestly, you need at least 2 people who are technically proficient to cover most web development requirements. And to do it just for the love of it…. partly out of pocket…. and almost a full-time job (install, maintenance, upgrades, etc). You have to love it for its own sake. 
 

It’s not something you can create/maintain half assed and things run on its own.

 

And for the ppl who want to run the show, pick your bedfellows very very very carefully. 

 

 

[Tarhog]

19 minutes ago, Die Hard said:

Honestly, you need at least 2 people who are technically proficient to cover most web development requirements. And to do it just for the love of it…. partly out of pocket…. and almost a full-time job (install, maintenance, upgrades, etc). You have to love it for its own sake. 
 

It’s not something you can create/maintain half assed and things run on its own.

 

And for the ppl who want to run the show, pick your bedfellows very very very carefully. 

 

 

 

Very true. I have always enjoyed the tech aspect - how to add some feature to the site, or solve or troubleshoot a problem. I mean - the discussion is awesome too and of course the members, but if it weren't for the technical and creative part of it, I probably wouldn't have been interested in doing a site. It's a lot of work - more than one would guess up front.

[Tarhog]

Another resource you might want to look at is The Admin Zone. It's great because while there are software-specific subforums, it's basically a site for those who are interested in or have already started a forum. I mean, it is a one-stop shopping place for 'Everything you ever wanted to know about starting a forum but were afraid to ask'. The Admin Zone is another Xenforo-based forum, so again, that might say something   I have found it a very friendly site full of experts (very similar to the old vbulletin.org forums that used to be a place for vbulletin forum owners to find answers on). You will find folks who are passionate about other forum software brands, including Invision.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Tarhog

[LD0506]

So if I may, condense it for us T, how much upfront to do it right and thoroughly, how much /month to keep it going? 

 

Just curious,  I have Powerball tickets 

😆

[KDawg]

41 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

So if I may, condense it for us T, how much upfront to do it right and thoroughly, how much /month to keep it going? 

 

Just curious,  I have Powerball tickets 

😆

I don’t but im 100% willing and able to use your powerball tickets

Edited November 11, 2023 by KDawg

[Tarhog]

Just my best guess to do a quality site with the kind of traffic here, I would guess 2-3

grand to get it up and fully built (again, dependent on how many bells and whistles you want) , and then $1000-$1500/quarter to keep it up and running. The quarterly cost could be more dependent on how much bandwidth you’d need based on high traffic.

[LD0506]

Less than I expected 

[Tarhog]

The other factor would be if you want to retain an archive of previous posts. That could increase your costs. You should have no problem technically with importing/migrating the current database (if the team agrees to give you access) but that might require a higher tier (and higher cost) server. 

[Renegade7]

I imagine the next question is how much currently is it costing to run ES right now. 

 

I'm glad this is a pinned thread, but ill defer to who knows the answer how and who they want to answer it to (and however they deem appropriate).

 

The idea of somewhere between 10-15 people at least putting into any account meant to keep the lights on makes sense to me, all I ask if it's monthly per person some form of autopay will help a lot. 

 

I don't want to hear it either if someone misses one, I don't make promises I can't keep, I break hearts early and up front because its less painful when someone promises to me then dragging it out to break it later, I don't like it, it hurts.

 

There's more then enough IT people, either infra, web development, or security, to go with a couple lawyers here to do damage. 

 

Please don't PM me about this just to play with my emotions, I have two toddler daughters, those are my priority right now time and resource-wise.

 

Don't rush, try to get it right the first time...measure twice, cut once...okay, there might be an asteroid heading our way, that by itself is no need to panic.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Renegade7

[Tarhog]

4 minutes ago, Tarhog said:

The other factor would be if you want to retain an archive of previous posts. That could increase your costs. You should have no problem technically with importing/migrating the current database (if the team agrees to give you access) but that might require a higher tier (and higher cost) server. 

It might make more sense to stay with Invision if you want to basically continue on as you have - it would probably be the cheapest option again assuming the team is willing to help you move it to a private account. You would have all the server costs and have to have guys to learn the software and become competent in admin duties. At least you would have the ability to keep the site current and updated though which obviously the team has not made a priority. Would save you upfront money purchasing other software and setting up a new site. But I would look at whether Invision is the best long-term software (and I can’t give any guidance on that as I am Invision ignorant).

[skinsmarydu]

47 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Don't rush, try to get it right the first time...measure twice, cut once...okay, there might be an asteroid heading our way, that by itself is no need to panic.

My husband measured everything a thousand times, you shoulda seen what it took to get new showers/bathrooms re-done before we moved back from Savannah...corners couldn't be turned, etc.  It was really dramatic. And that was a physical thing, which is what I know...the mental part (trying to find the right pieces and parts was much harder.)

I can imagine that this would be much worse.  We've got more than 80,000 members (checking them out over the years, lots are stupid accounts that I think were made up to pad the membership). 

Seriously, this would be a huge undertaking. 

I complain about changing my litter boxes and vacuuming. 

[Tarhog]

Good luck guys and gals. Most importantly - Hail to the team we all love and better days ahead. Best of luck.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Tarhog

[Renegade7]

37 minutes ago, skinsmarydu said:

Seriously, this would be a huge undertaking. 

I complain about changing my litter boxes and vacuuming. 

 

I've seen some projects over think themselves into oblivion, meetings about meetings...dont oversimplify, but try to keep simple where you can to keep it from being bigger then it needs to be (we may end up with very finite time ranges and budgets depending on what happens when).  Obtainable goals and realistic measurable plans to do them. 

 

This could could potentially turn into a server migration, there are people on this board that have done those, I've done those.  Not as many of us involving this software, if we stay with it. 

 

Curious what current support plan is, I hope that's factored into monthly or quarterly costs because folks here are right that maintaining and keeping it running shouldn't be underestimated how much time that could or will take. 

 

My bigger concern is too much being put on one or two people, spreading tasks out should help if and when stuff comes up.  This potentially being what many would consider volunteer work shouldn't be lost here, rather folks get the help they need then feel underappreciated and leave.

[skinsmarydu]

Call me stupid, but I'm gonna say the obvious thing that TK did...

Billionaires own this team.  The team owns the site. 

I will absolutely freak the **** out if this comes down to a money issue.  Like, YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING ME! and I won't give a **** about anything anymore.  Absolutely ridiculous. 

[tshile]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

My bigger concern is too much being put on one or two people

in my opinion the moderating is way more time consuming than anything else. 
 

most everything else is a money problem. I think there’s a way around that. 
 

it’s cleaning up the messes and dealing with reported posts and trying to stick to the established culture that takes all the time. 
 

if i knew all the mods were coming with that’d be easy. If they weren’t I’d have reservations. Think people underestimate the work they put in, especially when the teams good and the site usage is up with all the randos