2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[FootballZombie]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

If they start slow, the calls for Ron to be let go and make Bieniemy HC will be deafening...if he retires, its clearly setup for Bieniemy to take over since he's Assistant HC. 

 

Ron went all out to set us up for something better then where we were, even by introducing a clear exit ramp from him as HC by hiring Bieniemy.  I can't think of any HC that has every willing hired their obvious replacement in such a make or break year for themselves,

 

 

Ron hired a dude who not only has never been a head coach, he has not so much as installed his own O/D at the NFL level.

 

There are a ton of examples of HCs on the hot seat that hire a a person with actual former HC XP to an O/D coordinator spot and this idea just spits in the face of that.

[Renegade7]

6 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

 

Ron hired a dude who not only has never been a head coach, he has not so much as installed his own O/D at the NFL level.

 

There are a ton of examples of HCs on the hot seat that hire a a person with actual former HC XP to an O/D coordinator spot and this idea just spits in the face of that.

 

So you aren't buying Ron is trying to setup Bieniemy to take over for him versus jus needing a replacement for Turner, in the context of what Bieniemy has been through to try to be a HC himself?

 

Ok.

[Skinsinparadise]

12 hours ago, zCommander said:

 

Where Ron failed to me was going after a retread and not shoring up the Oline with the 28K instead. This is what I wanted him to do. Sure you all beat me up for saying to start TH instead. It wasn't even about me liking him or not but to build the lines and then drop a QB from 2023 draft but they got Howell in 2022 and they did that anyway last year and him and TH would have fought for the starting position last year. Clearly Howell would have beaten TH and we would had better idea as to what Howell can and can't do. That would have been an ideal thing to do. 

 

But, I know Dan wanted a "real" QB so maybe I can give Ron a pass on that if that is what really happened. I know Dan has always had win every year mentality and not wait and build. Thank goodness he is gone and we can now actually build a talented team!

 

Moreover, did EB not have a say in what he wanted this year? Is EB content with what he has and maybe thinks he can get more out of less? Transition year didn't help in the matter as well.

 

If Howell is legit and we win say 10 games and get into playoffs I would say Ron deserves to come back next year. 

 

 

 My feelings at the time was I understood why Wentz -- he was a boom-bust player but if he's a boon they found their guy. I didn't love him, he could bust, but he did have upside, it wasn't like chasing someone like Case Keenum.  But I thought it was an atrocious deal and he got ripped off in it and said so at the time.  Multiple high picks AND eating his salary -- wow.

 

In season 3 which Ron dubbed as the one where he needed to win -- the take the next step season, etc -- you had to try something different than Heinicke IMO.  The ceiling with Heinicke was evident.    I was rewatching the GB game from last year and at least the first half reminded me how atrocious his accuracy was.

 

Them taking Howell from what Keim said wasn't their intention, they weren't aiming for a QB in that draft.  But when he fell that far down they couldn't resist but it wss unexpected..

 

Knowing Ron though, with the 28 million dollars I have doubts he would have dedicated it to the offensive line.    But I do agree with you that eating the 28 million of Wentz's contract was a bad move -- I thought the same at the time.  

 

Last off season I mostly still had Ron's back and there was one dude (not his loudest critic guy but a different one) who would argue some points with me about Ron but the one point I agreed with him was when he would say if Ron was on a budget, isn't the 28 million for Wentz something you can hang him on for if he doesn't work out -- my answer was yes. 

 

If you are given a budget and you blow it all on one player and that player sucks then its an even graver mistaker.  I said so then.   

 

Might not be a coincidence that Keim said recently that they didn't sign a marquee FA in part because they wanted to use their budget for multiple players versus one big time player.  He also said from what he heard Ron wasn't limited in the off season in FA because of ownership.   

 

And look I defended Ron for being limited with these budgets and how Dan makes this place come off less attractive.  I still feel that way.  But to your point maximize the budget you have.  And this FA season it was clear that Dan was on his way out so I gather that might have helped a little.  For example I wonder if Bieiniemy would gave come here if Dan stayed.  Bieniemy referenced very early on about new beginnings with Dan leaving.

Edited June 18, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[FootballZombie]

2 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

So you aren't buying Ron is trying to setup Bieniemy to take over for him versus jus needing a replacement for Turner, in the context of what Bieniemy has been through to try to be a HC himself?

 

 

I don't buy trying to install a new HC when a new ownership group is coming in who will want to install their own guys in the event what we have currently does not work out.

 

Ron knows if he fails he is gonzo and Harris will bring in whoever he wants. Every coach on the staff is in the same boat.

Unless we are really good this season, in which case everybody keeps their jobs, EB knows full well he is signing a probable 1 yr deal.

[Conn]

10 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

This is just my opinion, but hiring Bieniemy should be the cherry on top for getting Ron in the Ring of Fame for our franchise, medicore or not.

 

After everything he's been through and brought us through, this takes the cake because he's knowingly and willing hired his replacement without flinching.

 

If they start slow, the calls for Ron to be let go and make Bieniemy HC will be deafening...if he retires, its clearly setup for Bieniemy to take over since he's Assistant HC. 

 

Ron went all out to set us up for something better then where we were, even by introducing a clear exit ramp from him as HC by hiring Bieniemy.  I can't think of any HC that has every willing hired their obvious replacement in such a make or break year for themselves, its like saying "if I can't do it, I think I've found someone who can and can live with that if that's what's best for the franchise"...

 

This post is a really nice example of how much our standards have fallen, and need to rise again, under new ownership. Almost sad to read

[Renegade7]

23 minutes ago, Conn said:

 

This post is a really nice example of how much our standards have fallen, and need to rise again, under new ownership. Almost sad to read

 

It's pretty bad, yes...

[samy316]

2 hours ago, Conn said:

 

This post is a really nice example of how much our standards have fallen, and need to rise again, under new ownership. Almost sad to read

Yes, this is a combination of sad/laugh out loud pathetic.  A coach whose never won more than 8 games, with 1 fluke playoff appearance and an overall record of 5 games below .500 as a coach of this team getting a ring of fame at Fed-Ex is incomprehensible. Ron shouldn’t be anywhere near a ring of fame ceremony, much less granted one.

Edited June 18, 2023 by samy316

[Est.1974]

New ownership were tapping up Payton. Nobody is in for the ring of fame gig here.

[ExoDus84]

14 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

This is just my opinion, but hiring Bieniemy should be the cherry on top for getting Ron in the Ring of Fame for our franchise, medicore or not.

 

After everything he's been through and brought us through, this takes the cake because he's knowingly and willing hired his replacement without flinching.

 

More than that. This isn't enough to compensate Ronald for what he's done for us, and how he's led us through Snyder's scandals with such class and grace.

 

Look, this is just my opinion, but putting Rivera in the Ring of Ron is not enough. Harris needs to immediately rebrand this team in Ron's honor. I don't know what is viable given the current legal nature of the team's name, but the Ronmmanders is a nice placeholder.

 

In addition, Ron should be our starting QB for Week 1 of the new Harris era, even if it's just for the first game. He's earned that right. He shows up on time. He puts in the work. He knows the playbook, I think. He's in great shape. No offense to Howell, but Ron should be out there during our home opener at Rivera Field at RonEx.

 

 

 

 

[mh86]

30 minutes ago, ExoDus84 said:

 

More than that. This isn't enough to compensate Ronald for what he's done for us, and how he's led us through Snyder's scandals with such class and grace.

 

Look, this is just my opinion, but putting Rivera in the Ring of Ron is not enough. Harris needs to immediately rebrand this team in Ron's honor. I don't know what is viable given the current legal nature of the team's name, but the Ronmmanders is a nice placeholder.

 

In addition, Ron should be our starting QB for Week 1 of the new Harris era, even if it's just for the first game. He's earned that right. He shows up on time. He puts in the work. He knows the playbook, I think. He's in great shape. No offense to Howell, but Ron should be out there during our home opener at Rivera Field at RonEx.

 

 

 

 

He’s got moxie

[Renegade7]

Like I said, jus my opinion : )

[redskinss]

15 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Like I said, jus my opinion : )

Ring of honor might have been a smidgen over the top but he definitely deserves our respect for Sheparding us through what was unquestionably the darkest time in franchise history. 

Sexual misconduct scandals, losing our identity etc.

I have all the respect in the world for Rivera and although I totally get the skepticism and the pessimism with him I don't get the hate.

[mistertim]

7 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

 

I don't buy trying to install a new HC when a new ownership group is coming in who will want to install their own guys in the event what we have currently does not work out.

 

Ron knows if he fails he is gonzo and Harris will bring in whoever he wants. Every coach on the staff is in the same boat.

Unless we are really good this season, in which case everybody keeps their jobs, EB knows full well he is signing a probable 1 yr deal.

 

Are you assuming that EB wouldn't be a guy the new owner wants as HC?

[Renegade7]

2 hours ago, redskinss said:

Ring of honor might have been a smidgen over the top but he definitely deserves our respect for Sheparding us through what was unquestionably the darkest time in franchise history. 

Sexual misconduct scandals, losing our identity etc.

I have all the respect in the world for Rivera and although I totally get the skepticism and the pessimism with him I don't get the hate.

 

I predict it comes up again and not as far fetched as it sounds.

 

Vince Lombardi was only here for one season, didn't make the playoffs, and is in our Ring of Fame.

 

Some credit Lombardi with bringing the respectability back to the franchise necessary to help George Allen make the 70s what they were. 

 

I do believe him dying during the season had a big part of why he was inducted (cancer) and don't want to discredit that. 

 

I'll just leave it at Ron has my vote, dude even fought cancer while coaching for us, coulda "I need to spend more time focusing on my family and health" retired on us and no one would said a word of disrespect on it, but didn't.

[Conn]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

Are you assuming that EB wouldn't be a guy the new owner wants as HC?

Would seem prudent to take the field on any bet like that. 15 different teams haven’t wanted him as their HC so there’s really no reason to “assume” Harris’ chosen GM will feel differently. It’s certainly possible but assuming he’s more likely than not to get the job after whatever season we’re about to have is definitely the less likely option imo. 

[redskinss]

32 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I predict it comes up again and not as far fetched as it sounds.

 

Vince Lombardi was only here for one season, didn't make the playoffs, and is in our Ring of Fame.

 

Some credit Lombardi with bringing the respectability back to the franchise necessary to help George Allen make the 70s what they were. 

 

I do believe him dying during the season had a big part of why he was inducted (cancer) and don't want to discredit that. 

 

I'll just leave it at Ron has my vote, dude even fought cancer while coaching for us, coulda "I need to spend more time focusing on my family and health" retired on us and no one would said a word of disrespect on it, but didn't.

I think this season will have a large part to play in it.

If we have more success than anyone thinks we will he's got a shot.

I agree the hand he was dealt here was as bad as it gets.

Comes in trying to turn around the worst franchise in the league and he can't even meet with his players face to face.

Despite that he made the playoffs with a quarterback who was second string xfl and sleeping on his sisters couch.

Then of course cancer and Snyder aside he had his health problems he had to deal with.

And Despite all that he's kept us in contention every year and improved the roster.

He's probably not the guy to get us to the promised land but I'll be damned if I can think of anybody who would have done better under the circumstances. 

[lovemaskins]

12 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

So you aren't buying Ron is trying to setup Bieniemy to take over for him versus jus needing a replacement for Turner, in the context of what Bieniemy has been through to try to be a HC himself?

 

Ok.

Not no, but Hell No!

[RVAskins]

5 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

New ownership were tapping up Payton. Nobody is in for the ring of fame gig here.

I can't remember which ownership group was in contact with Payton. was it Harris or some other group?

[88Comrade2000]

3 hours ago, Conn said:

Would seem prudent to take the field on any bet like that. 15 different teams haven’t wanted him as their HC so there’s really no reason to “assume” Harris’ chosen GM will feel differently. It’s certainly possible but assuming he’s more likely than not to get the job after whatever season we’re about to have is definitely the less likely option imo. 

Only way EB has a shot here is if he became the interim coach and took us to the playoffs.

 

EB coming here was to show it wasn’t all Andy Reid. He can run an offense and if he improves us enough, to get shot at a head coaching.

 

He may get an interview but likely the Gm will pick their own guy.

[SkinsFTW]

It would be so Snyderskins (RIP) for Bieniemy to be successful as OC this year, him to get interviewed for the HC job by the new GM and by a few other teams as well and for him to choose to go coach somewhere else. 

[Skinsinparadise]

12 hours ago, Conn said:

Would seem prudent to take the field on any bet like that. 15 different teams haven’t wanted him as their HC so there’s really no reason to “assume” Harris’ chosen GM will feel differently. It’s certainly possible but assuming he’s more likely than not to get the job after whatever season we’re about to have is definitely the less likely option imo. 

 

You make a good point in another post about standards.  I've made the same point in other posts.  Based on reputation at least we are about to enter a new galaxy with Harris versus Dan.    If Bieniemy's offense has a good season -- he'd fit the higher standards.   But if it doesn't?  I wonder. 

 

With Dan for example, I agree with Sheehan's description that Dan outkicked his coverage with landing Ron -- Ron was sort of out of Dan's league.  Especially towards the end of Dan's era.  Heck who wasn't out of Dan's league?

 

As to Bieniemy, by reputation he would be a tremendous almost no brainer get for Dan's regime.  He's a bigger name than Dan's current reputation warranted to land.  If the offense turns a corner here, he'd be a big name this off season for any team. 

 

But for Harris, that's more of an open question.  Would Bieineimy be the best candidate to be a head coach in the league next off season?  For example better than Ben Johnson?   Personally I don't know. But that likely would be the standard under Harris.  Under Dan we aren't accustomed at least in recent years to think about who is the best candidate -- we have to think at least a tier below, often two tiers below.  Heck Dan's reputation even back in trhe late 2000s was already damaged where Spags turned down an interview and would rather be a coordinator than a HC here.

 

I like what I hear about Bieniemy mostly.  But I do hear a little about the stuff that @Koolblue13 among others are concerned about which is the yelling might not be per se embraced by all.  I think it was Logan Paulsen (but I might be mixing him for someone else) who said he was told by a player that he wonders how that style would go over with some other players if they lose some this season.  And I believe it was Paulsen who does like him also said his style won't be for some players. 

 

I don't know the roots about the narrative that he's not that good of an interview for HC jobs but have heard that multiple tiimes. But if that''s true, and he's up against someone who is a really good interview that can be a factor, too.  Some coordinators are better in that coordinators role than they are head coaches.  Gregg Williams is a good example of that, and some said he wasn't the hottest head coach interview.

 

I am not saying Bieiniemy shoudn't be that guy.  I have no opinion on that front yet.  Lets see how the season goes.  But from what I've read I'd be surprised if Harris sees him as some sort of no brainer successor.  And that has nothing to do with Bieniemy but more about Harris style to find the best of the best -- and maybe that dude is Bieineimy but I don't think its a forgone conclusion right now. 

 

Said differently, Dan and the people working under him were somewhat fixated on familarity with some of their hires.  And that would favor someone like Bieniemy and the narrative that he's come to be the successor.  But that type of narrative doesn't seem to fit Harris.  So while it wouldn't surprise me at all if the idea of Bieniemy is seen by Ron as his successor and he has some plan in his head for how it all goes down.  But it likely wouldn't surprise me if Harris doesn't give a rats behind about Ron's vision for his successor. 

 

Heck even under Dan the last rodeo we've had that strongly about the successor was in house was Gibbs-Gregg Williams.  And Gregg didn't end up getting the gig even though most of us on the board expected him to get the job until he didn't.

 

I do think Bieineimy has a shot at it though.  Just I'd be surprised if its even remotely locked in.   If you put a gun to my head and got me to guess on this.  Ron wants a FO job with personnel power next off season.  He doesn't get it.  Bieniemy is a contender for the job but only gets it if the offense has a good season.  Otherwise I think it ends up with a different head coach. 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

12 hours ago, Conn said:

Would seem prudent to take the field on any bet like that. 15 different teams haven’t wanted him as their HC so there’s really no reason to “assume” Harris’ chosen GM will feel differently. It’s certainly possible but assuming he’s more likely than not to get the job after whatever season we’re about to have is definitely the less likely option imo. 

 

The GM making the hire component if it went down could be a dyanmic.  I'd add Ryan Pace who worked with Bieiniemy in KC, got the gig with the Bears and didn't even interview Bieniemy.

 

I can see Bieniemy be the head coach here next season.  But to me its a wildcard -- it doesn't feel slam dunk to me.  We don't know what happens in these interviews or the dynamics of Bieniemy's relationships with other people in the building wherever he's at -- but something clearly has gone amiss for him on that front. 

 

And if by chance Rivera is trying to set up Bieniemy as his successor and its all him as to this move -- if I am Harris if anything that would put me off.   Comes off IMO a bit presumptous and even a tad arrogant from Ron to think he's earned that type of status.

 

While I agree with the positive sentiments from some about Rivera, I've made similar points many times -- he's a class act who endured so much crap and perservered regardless.  He's also IMO not earned the status of appointing his successor.  He's not had a single winning season and has made his share of bad decisions including with coaching hires where he's not earned the status to make any calls for the next regime IMO.   Said differenty, fans aren't clamoring for another run like Ron had so it comes off presumptous for him to call the next shot for his succession.

 

I was excited for the Bieniemy hire absorbing everything I could for the coordinator spot.  I was a bit more hesitant about those at the time racing for wanting him to be a HC.  Only reason for that was he has a done a ton of interviews and hasn't landed that job.  I know some say that's on the NFL and not on him.  Maybe.  But I don't want to rule out that there are reasons why he's not getting that job.  I am open to him being HC here but I am not annoiting him for that yet.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

11 hours ago, RVAskins said:

I can't remember which ownership group was in contact with Payton. was it Harris or some other group?

 

We don't know.  Sounds like Harris though.

 

A.  Bezos was never serious about buying this team so why would he start probing about coaches?

B.  Steven A is from Canada and didn't seem wired into the NFL

C.  Maybe Fretitta but doesn't strike me his style to put the cart before the horse and was never seen a front runner for the team

D.  Harris is the one wired into sports media being the owner of two other sports teams

E.  Russini (who broke the story) around the same time when asked who does she think ends up with the team said "Harris"

F.  Some close to the Harris group said they were really deep into their plans of what they would do with this team -- well before they were locked into being owners.  

Edited June 19, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

I've tired of the talk about who will or will not be HC next year.

 

It is all about this year right now.

 

In the coming months I look forward to seeing:

• Further personnel moves to improve the current roster
• Last years powerful defense to look even stronger with the injury returns and new additions, especially in the backfield
• EB's play calling - addition by subtracting Turner alone is a win
• EB's new offense to take hold with players, especially with our blossoming signal caller
• The offensive weapons to shine and prove they were underestimated by national media....and some here lol
• The offensive line to take shape - players will be pushing each other with heavy competition at most positions 

[Warhead36]

We're comparing Rivera to Vince freaking Lombardi now?

 

...I hate the off season