2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[tmandoug1]

4 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

Agree, Diggs is another level. Pure class.

Hard not to be when you get paid, hated Cousins (get it), but now he is going to **** out again with Allen as his QB? Say hello AB2!

[HTTSkins]

13 hours ago, KDawg said:

I respect him still as a man and as a coach. And a person. But his style isn’t helping this team move forward. His role here, after this year, needs to be in a front office leadership role (not GM, but guide/president type of role). He is exactly the kind of person you want as your face. 
 

Not necessarily the guy you want running the show.

This year is it for Ron time to hand it over to EB

[samy316]

3 hours ago, MrJL said:

 

It's been a long time and I had only really been into football for around a year and a half or two years when we had our best year  in 91, but I kind of remember the conversation in the offseason prior being about Simms or Hostetler, can the Bills comeback from their heartbreaking loss, Joe Montana's injury.  Like we weren't expected to be worse but we weren't expected to be great either

 

Bad irrelevant teams aren't thought about.  Afterthoughts to me are like the last two teams in the playoffs

 

Being an afterthought affects business.  If we're irrelevant year after year, like we have been for the last 10-15 years, it affects fan attendance, and it also affects jersey/merchandise sales.  I don't think people are really aware of how bad of a state Dan Snyder has left this team in.  We're last in attendance, after being 1st in attendance for many years, we are dead last in jersey sales (I don't think we have a player in the Top 100 currently), and we're the least watched team in the NFL in our own market.  Giants, Cowboys and Eagles games get higher ratings in DC than the Commanders do.  Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the Steelers get higher ratings in DC than the Commanders.  That's almost impossible to do.  He's destroyed this franchise in the 24 years that he's owned it.  All of it matters.  If we're irrelevant, it affects everything.  If we continue to have awful attendance, what jurisdiction would want to work with us on a new stadium?  Do you want us to continue playing games in that dump called Fed-Ex?  In 5-10 years, we'll have the oldest stadium in the NFL after Lambeau Field, while the Bears, Titans, Bills and Jaguars all get brand new stadiums.

Edited June 17, 2023 by samy316

[Skinsinparadise]

15 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I think the over the top skewering of Rivera is…over the top. 
 

I’m disappointed that we didn’t grab another OL starter but I liked our draft. 
 

Snyder is gone. Bienemy is OC. We’ve got a an exciting young QB. The flame throwers he’s getting are overdone I think. 

 

Ron's future will play out this season.  He has a shot. 

 

He has a chance to show the doubters -- really the big doubters are more the national media, anayltics types, Vegas, mock drafters, etc who think this team will suck.  They seem to think his era ends up with a bad thud -- just like the last seasons for Jay, Shanny.  

 

Most of the doubters here that I can tell, me included, think that Ron has another mediocre season in him.  8-9 something like that.  So we aren't as down on him as the national consensus.  Maybe not even as down as the typical fan.  If I recall it was the Junkies that put up a poll on the expectations of the season and an overwhelming majority of fans predicted a losing season. 

 

You don't build Rome in a day.  You also don't tear apart Rome in a day.  IMO his decisions on the O line were multiple years in the making -- and if they suck this year and it brings the team down 2 years in row he deserves to be canned.  Whether Ron should have taken this guy or that guy in the 2nd round or whatever IMO is immaterial. 

 

What makes a unit good or bad is the accmulation of decisions.  Not one draft.  Not one FA class.  If a coach is going to sell a rebuild takes time and cited needing multiple years -- the point is the accumulation of decisons.   And you live and die by that sword.    You can't IMO defend a unit by citing one fragment of one of those years for the 4 year rebuild as to that's the best he could have done.

 

As for him being "meh" for ticket sales and general fan sales, that's not debatable. It's been bad under his tenure.  And yes that's not all on him.  He inherited a mess.  But he's IMO generated no excitement via his own work.   He is inheriting an excited fan base this off season because of Dan's ouster -- lets see how long he holds it.  He will hold it for a span for sure.  But can he grab it and bring the fans back?  For a dude that whines about wanting fans back -- he's been giving the golden goose to pull it off this season.

 

So in short Ron is giving every opportunity to show himself this season.  Season 4 of his rebuild.  And a fan base that wants to believe.  And I've spent a zillion hours here defending and selling Ron right until recently.  Love the dude as a person.  I'd love to see a 10-7 playoff season and the fans keep coming.   I doubt it happens.  But i am not rooting for Ron to go 8-9 and get canned and for the fan maialse to kick in midseason.  I've been right about stuff and wrong.  I am never a slave to any prediction.

 

And lol, i've pushed Ron enough on various threads, that I feel somewhat invested in him in spite of my recent criticisms.  And i am not really ripping him that hard.  I say he's decent to good at his job but his ceiling as been revealed in my mind.  I also don't think he has any instinct to put fans in the seats -- which while doesn't matter at all if you win but it does matter if he's going to live in that land of 500 or less. 

 

In short, Ron's version of 500 is IMO graded on a curve a bit worse than the record because its a boring version of it which doesn't put fans in the seats.  But even if its a 500 season give or take with fans in the seats and he maintains the Dan is gone excitement -- its not enough for me.  He needs to get into the playoffs at a minimum IMO.

Edited June 17, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

14 hours ago, MrJL said:

So, would someone explain to me why some fans care about how other teams fanbases react to us?  I honestly can only get part of it.  I mean, I certainly understand not wanting to be insulted about the team.  But I don't quite get why being an after thought would be a bad thing.  Like even in Gibbs era the 49ers were the team that was the Dynasty, and in the early 80s people still wondered if the Cowboys would recover and be a threat again and in the late 80s with LT and Simms I think the Giants were more talked about than us, and in the AFC you had so many superstar QBs, Marino and Elway as soon as they came in, then Moon quickly joined in and then Kelly added to the list by the late 80s.

 

I lived through those eras, too.  For me its relevance versus irelevance.  It's stark.  We were a prime time draw.  Albert Breer talked about this brand (and he grew up a Patriots fan) was just a shade behind the Yankees and Cowboys and Dan burned that into the ground.

 

I get your point if i understand it -- that they were winning but it was sort of non-sexy back in that day?   But still Washington was big time relevant.   And for the lack of sex appeal was relative because they still had plenty of it compared to anything under the Dan era.  Heck Dan made a lot of money basking in that nostalgia.

 

We had:

A.  The Hogs.

B.  The Sell outs.  We were today's version of the Seahawks back then as to loudest home team

C.  Doug Williams and the importance of that story

D.  John Madden among others would gush about how we had the smartest coaches in the NFL

E.  We were part of real NFL rivalries that national audiences cared about..  Heck the Washington-Dallas rivalry made it to a Beer commercial.

F.   Prime time draws.  We were one of the big teams on that front.  Heck it took even Dan years to destroy that because he inherited so much built in good will on that front that we maintained that status for a chunk of his tenure until it faded.

 

There were plenty more narratives.  

 

The Giants GM wrote a book in the the 2000s and specifically went out of his way to talk about this team's fan base and how they played a meaningless game at the end of the season for both teams but Fedex was packed to the gills and referenced how special this fan base was.

 

Back in that day in the 80s, early 90s, in schooI, I could wear Redskins shirts with plenty of pride.  Heck back then I was also a big Yankeees fan.  And I took some grief when I'd wear Yankees gear.  But the Redskins gear was always safe.   But that obviously is the complete opposite now.

 

Now when I wear Commanders shirts and I engage in conversations with other fans from time to time -- it often turns to why that team as if people don't know too many people who root for them?  Or they'd say something about Dan and the sleaze.  When Dale Earnhardt went on First Take, a few years ago, I recall him being asked the Redskins, why the Redskins, we don't get many on our show who are fans of that team?  My son wears Commanders gear some to High School and I wish he didn't because its easy for me to envision some mockery for it.  lol, but so far so good -- helps that he's a big dude for his age. 

 

None of that feels anything remotely to the Redskins of old.   We are sort of like Blockbuster video members in the age of Netflix.  Night and day from the old days. 

 

So today not getting any Sunday-Monday Night Football games.  Being dead last in fan attendance.  Sagging local TV ratings where Dallas outdraws us locally.  Just about zero national attention and a punchline for irrelevance to me feels like we are living in another galaxy versus just another planet away from the way it used to be.    And I am not saying eveyone should be bothered by this.  We all rock our fandom in differetn ways,  But it bothers me a lot.  Especially when people within my circle has given up on this team and moved on.  I know some mods have referenced plenty of people who were once here are gone, too.  

 

Part of the reason why i am so passionate about the subject is for me it feels like some of my childhood has been ripped away from this Dan era.   I got to explain to my son for example that heck this team wasn't once dysfunctional, they used to win.  But it feels to me like explaining how we used to listen to music with Walkmans in the 80s.  We listened to tapes.  It really happened.  The glory Washington of old years feels dead and dated like name that 80s relic because its so removed from today.   And that's not the feeling I suspect the long time fans of the Steelers among other teams whose brands didn't crash feel. 

Edited June 17, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Conn]

11 hours ago, MrJL said:

 

It's been a long time and I had only really been into football for around a year and a half or two years when we had our best year  in 91, but I kind of remember the conversation in the offseason prior being about Simms or Hostetler, can the Bills comeback from their heartbreaking loss, Joe Montana's injury.  Like we weren't expected to be worse but we weren't expected to be great either

 

Bad irrelevant teams aren't thought about.  Afterthoughts to me are like the last two teams in the playoffs

 

You’re splitting hairs for some reason imo. No sports fan wants their team to be irrelevant or an afterthought. It’s really that simple. 

[MrJL]

48 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I lived through those eras, too.  For me its relevance versus irelevance.  It's stark.  We were a prime time draw.  Albert Breer talked about this brand (and he grew up a Patriots fan) was just a shade behind the Yankees and Cowboys and Dan burned that into the ground.

 

I get your point if i understand it -- that they were winning but it was sort of non-sexy back in that day?   But still Washington was big time relevant.   And for the lack of sex appeal was relative because they still had plenty of it compared to anything under the Dan era.  Heck Dan made a lot of money basking in that nostalgia.

 

 

 winning but it wasn't sexy is actually a pretty perfect description

[Conn]

 

Edit: double post 

Edited June 17, 2023 by Conn

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

In short, Ron's version of 500 is IMO graded on a curve a bit worse than the record because its a boring version of it which doesn't put fans in the seats.  But even if its a 500 season give or take with fans in the seats and he maintains the Dan is gone excitement -- its not enough for me.  He needs to get into the playoffs at a minimum IMO.

I still think that everyone who gives Ron grief is undervaluing poor QB play and overvaluing poor OL play. Both together can certainly make for an unsightly football game, and an unspectacular day at the ball park.
 

Can you make the argument that he’s responsible for both? Perhaps. I’d lean way more to OL as I’m sure you would as well.

 

Explosive plays put fans in the seats. We’ve got more potential for that in both sides of the ball. And Dans departure can’t be overstated. People will buy tickets just to spite him. 

 

I think we get 10 wins this year. We shall see.

 

Side memory: I remember everyone saying the Texans had the worst OL in the NFL when David Carr was playing. When Matt Schaub took over, all of a sudden they weren’t so bad. Food for thought. 

[MrJL]

Just now, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I still think that everyone who gives Ron grief is undervaluing poor QB play and overvaluing poor OL play. Both together can certainly make for an unsightly football game, and an unspectacular day at the ball park.
 

Can you make the argument that he’s responsible for both? Perhaps. I’d lean way more to OL as I’m sure you would as well.

 

Explosive plays put fans in the seats. We’ve got more potential for that in both sides of the ball. And Dans departure can’t be overstated. People will buy tickets just to spite him. 

 

I think we get 10 wins this year. We shall see.

 

Side memory: I remember everyone saying the Texans had the worst OL in the NFL when David Carr was playing. When Matt Schaub took over, all of a sudden they weren’t so bad. Food for thought. 

 

I think 2020 helped contribute  to the lack of fans since

[Koolblue13]

29 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

I think 2020 helped contribute  to the lack of fans since

It's a lot more than that. Swinging gate and the bingo caller after a fan revolt after being turned down by Jim Fassil. The Spurrier debacle. Terrible signings like AH, then the off field stuff from ownership, broken poo pipes and handicap railings failing. 

 

It's been a steady swirl down the bowl as a bottom 5 winning team, with a heap of off field issues. It's watching a winning product, one of the prime flagship franchises lose everything. We couldn't even lose our name with competency. 

 

The turd has been flushed, so lets hope when the commode refills it smells like roses.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I still think that everyone who gives Ron grief is undervaluing poor QB play and overvaluing poor OL play. Both together can certainly make for an unsightly football game, and an unspectacular day at the ball park.
 

Can you make the argument that he’s responsible for both? Perhaps. I’d lean way more to OL as I’m sure you would as well.

 

 

Perhaps?  He inherited the 13th ranked O line from PFF and they are now ranked 27th.   I among others have laid out the series of decisions he's made on that spot.  A bunch of them were bad.  So yeah for me its not "perhaps" as to the O line.  He remade that O line completely.   It's 100% on him. 

 

He's done a nice job at other spots.  Atrocious job on the O line IMO -- but again if he proves people wrong that front this year, fantastic.  But if it goes down as most expect -- he should be fired if the record is mediocre or bad.

 

I am not even one of the people on the board who seem to say every year just take big men -- and its all about O line.  But I also agree with a scout who once said its hard to be a good team with a bad offensive line.

 

As for QB, he's had missed opportunities like Herbert which I defended.  I was listening to a Pitts reporter this week who said they are convinced Pickett is a franchise QB based on camp and his leadership qualities -- that one will be interesting to watch.   He forgoed trading up for Fields because the price was too high.   He tried to trade for Wilson and thankfully he struck out.  He made a terrible trade for Wentz.   

 

Sheehan said he heard they were flabbergasted by how cheap the Colts got Matt Ryan and they asked the Colts FO how did they get him that cheap.  Eating Wentz's full contract and giving up two thirds -- they were lucky it wasn't a 2nd, was an epic level awful trade -- I was OK with gambiling on Wentz but I among others said it was an awful trade as to compensation.

 

So no I don't give Ron a pass for QB.  He's made some bad decisions.  But if Howell turns out to be the guy, all is forgiven.  If Howell doesn't end up the guy, then yeah I'd agree with those who say they don't trust Ron on the Qb spot.   I think his whole tenure now is riding on Howell.  What irritates me about this is why not give the dude a better chance with better protection?

 

I've agreed with some of Ron's decisions at the time at QB and others I didn't.  But Ron isn't paid to match wits with any of us here.  We aren't paid to be the GM.  He's supposed to be smarter.  He's the one paid milllions and in charge of this stuff.  

 

 

2 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

 

 

Explosive plays put fans in the seats. We’ve got more potential for that in both sides of the ball. And Dans departure can’t be overstated. People will buy tickets just to spite him. 

 

 

I agree about Dan's departure.  As for expecting more explosive plays that's sort of a wildcard.  They didn't add any play makers in the off season.  But I do think Bieniemy plus Howell >> Turner, Heinicke.  I also think if they get off to lets say a 3-6 start that good will from the fans will atrophy some.  Don't get me wrong, I don't think it will die completely -- ironically the way to give hope in that context would be to fire Ron IMO.

 

2 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

 

 

I think we get 10 wins this year. We shall see.

 

 

I'd be surprised.  But I am not a mile off.  I think its 8-9.  If lucky 9-8.  I think there is a better shot at 7-10 then 10-7.  But I hope you are right.

 

2 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

 

Side memory: I remember everyone saying the Texans had the worst OL in the NFL when David Carr was playing. When Matt Schaub took over, all of a sudden they weren’t so bad. Food for thought. 

 

If we had pedigreed O lineman with really good past performances yet struggled with Heinicke at the helm, etc -- I'd be with you on this thought.

 

But don't get me wrong I don't expect the O line to be a disaster.  I think it will hold up to the mediocre to bad pass rushers.   I think Bieineimy can help scheme around that.  But alas, they face 7 games in the mix out of the top 10 2022 pass rushing defenses -- and i do think those games will be problems.  But will see.

 

I'd actually like this O line better if they maybe weren't hot in pass protection but were still good run blockers.  But they aren't good at either thing.

Edited June 17, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, MrJL said:

 winning but it wasn't sexy is actually a pretty perfect description

 

Winning and VERY relevant.

 

If you are going to be a losing-mediocre team and also not sexy -- clearly you lose fan interest -- both as to national interest and local interest.  

Edited June 17, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

The thing about "if Howell shines, all is forgiven" is that we had a 2nd round grade on him and passed until the middle of day three and then Ron did everything in his power to not start him last year. He wanted Heinicke to finish the season and he refused, so Ron had no choice to play Sam. If Ron is to get credit for Sam, he would have made a switch at the bye last year and then we probably make the playoffs.

 

This offseason, he refused to say that Sam was QB1. He signed a competent career back up with starting potential and although he didn't look into 41 QBs or                                go beg Gibbs for advice, there wasn't anyone else that was coming here.

 

So no, if Howell blows the doors off the NFL, Ron gets no credit.

[skinny21]

16 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

The thing about "if Howell shines, all is forgiven" is that we had a 2nd round grade on him and passed until the middle of day three and then Ron did everything in his power to not start him last year. He wanted Heinicke to finish the season and he refused, so Ron had no choice to play Sam. If Ron is to get credit for Sam, he would have made a switch at the bye last year and then we probably make the playoffs.

 

This offseason, he refused to say that Sam was QB1. He signed a competent career back up with starting potential and although he didn't look into 41 QBs or                                go beg Gibbs for advice, there wasn't anyone else that was coming here.

 

So no, if Howell blows the doors off the NFL, Ron gets no credit.

To some extent, this is a personal opinion type of deal, so no problem with you feeling this way obviously.  In context though, prior to the draft they had what they hoped was a capable starter that could potentially be here for 3 years, and capable backup.  So they perhaps weren’t too keen on using their 2nd-4th round picks on a qb when other picks could potentially help the team more.  Lots of discussion around here about how non-1st round qbs are highly unlikely to succeed, though that’s maybe more of a sidenote.  

They didn’t switch to Howell when we were still in the hunt, and considering he was still only scout team at that point, that’s probably the logical decision.  In hindsight of course, turning to him might have been the better decision.

As for the final game - wasn’t the actual plan to play Howell in the 2nd half?  Fair to argue against that plan, but I can at least come up with a few sensible reasons they initially wanted to go that route.  

In terms of announcing him qb1 - they’ve given him (virtually?) all the 1st team reps. Presumably they didn’t want to announce it because there was a chance it didn’t work out and they wanted Howell to feel he was in a competition?  I’d guess this may have been both to create a sense of urgency, and to see how he handled that added layer of pressure.  They’ve been outspoken of their support and how they’re happy with his progress, so I don’t see a problem with how they’ve handled it, but again, to each their own.  
 

To be clear, the above is not me trying to say Ron’s handled the qb situation just fine since he’s been here, purely about how they’ve handled Howell.  

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

To some extent, this is a personal opinion type of deal, so no problem with you feeling this way obviously.  In context though, prior to the draft they had what they hoped was a capable starter that could potentially be here for 3 years, and capable backup.  So they perhaps weren’t too keen on using their 2nd-4th round picks on a qb when other picks could potentially help the team more.  Lots of discussion around here about how non-1st round qbs are highly unlikely to succeed, though that’s maybe more of a sidenote.  

They didn’t switch to Howell when we were still in the hunt, and considering he was still only scout team at that point, that’s probably the logical decision.  In hindsight of course, turning to him might have been the better decision.

As for the final game - wasn’t the actual plan to play Howell in the 2nd half?  Fair to argue against that plan, but I can at least come up with a few sensible reasons they initially wanted to go that route.  

In terms of announcing him qb1 - they’ve given him (virtually?) all the 1st team reps. Presumably they didn’t want to announce it because there was a chance it didn’t work out and they wanted Howell to feel he was in a competition?  I’d guess this may have been both to create a sense of urgency, and to see how he handled that added layer of pressure.  They’ve been outspoken of their support and how they’re happy with his progress, so I don’t see a problem with how they’ve handled it, but again, to each their own.  
 

To be clear, the above is not me trying to say Ron’s handled the qb situation just fine since he’s been here, purely about how they’ve handled Howell.  

The plan was to play Howell only if we were out of contention, but Ron thought we were still in the hunt after our lose and back tracked saying that we'd stick with Heinickie. Then he found out we were out of the playoffs and said Howell would probably play the second half, but Taylor refused to play.

[DWinzit]

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I lived through those eras, too.  For me its relevance versus irelevance.  It's stark. 

I get your point if i understand it -- that they were winning but it was sort of non-sexy back in that day?   But still Washington was big time relevant.   And for the lack of sex appeal was relative because they still had plenty of it compared to anything under the Dan era.  Heck Dan made a lot of money basking in that nostalgia.

 

We had:

A.  The Hogs.

B.  The Sell outs.  We were today's version of the Seahawks back then as to loudest home team

Love the full post

Storied past, identifiable players, plus the Hogs and the Fun Bunch, incredible die hard fan base, the band and HTTR.....

Oh, and consistent success

 

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Back in that day in the 80s, early 90s, in schooI, I could wear Redskins shirts with plenty of pride.  Heck back then I was also a big Yankeees fan.  And I took some grief when I'd wear Yankees gear.  But the Redskins gear was always safe.   But that obviously is the complete opposite now.

The Yankees, really SIP? 

Edited June 17, 2023 by DWinzit

[redskinss]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

So no, if Howell blows the doors off the NFL, Ron gets no credit.

Ron has said plenty of good things about Howell, maybe he just didn't want to throw the kid to the wolves.

He may have wanted to take Sam earlier but he had just picked up wentz and probably didn't want to create a controversy like how Shanahan really liked cousins but didn't want to take him earlier than the 4th round because we had just traded the world to get rg3.

 

Ron's the decision maker on this team, you can't trash him for the o line and then turn around and refuse to give him credit if sam works out.

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Ron has said plenty of good things about Howell, maybe he just didn't want to throw the kid to the wolves.

He may have wanted to take Sam earlier but he had just picked up wentz and probably didn't want to create a controversy like how Shanahan really liked cousins but didn't want to take him earlier than the 4th round because we had just traded the world to get rg3.

 

Ron's the decision maker on this team, you can't trash him for the o line and then turn around and refuse to give him credit if sam works out.

Wanna bet?

[DWinzit]

39 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Ron has said plenty of good things about Howell, maybe he just didn't want to throw the kid to the wolves.

He may have wanted to take Sam earlier but he had just picked up wentz and probably didn't want to create a controversy like how Shanahan really liked cousins but didn't want to take him earlier than the 4th round because we had just traded the world to get rg3.

 

Ron's the decision maker on this team, you can't trash him for the o line and then turn around and refuse to give him credit if sam works out.

There has been a distinct lack of focus on truly improving the OL over Rons tenure. In fact, the talent level has immensely deteriorated as exemplified by SIPs mention of the 13th to 27th ratings drop.

 

I felt by the latter portion of the past season, Howell should have been given some playing time. That would have allowed the staff to evaluate and work with him in areas needed. By that point in the season, it was evident to me that the Commanders had little chance of competing in the playoffs (if they could by a miracle reach them). The playing time would not only have given Howell needed experience but a chance for staff to evaluate and work with him in areas requiring improvement. That would be putting him in a better place moving into the off season and where we are today. While Ron can be credited to some degree with drafting him and giving him a chance this season, the draft was a virtual no brainer. 

 

The best thing that could happen is Howell doing well and leading the team to a winning season and becoming a top 10-15 QB this year

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

Love the full post

Storied past, identifiable players, plus the Hogs and the Fun Bunch, incredible die hard fan base, the band and HTTR.....

Oh, and consistent success

 

The Yankees, really SIP? 

 

lol, I have more of a reason to be a Yankees fan than Redskins.  I moved my share of times but when I was becoming a sports fan I lived in NJ. 

 

I didn't move to DC until I was in my 20s.  My dad moved to DC though while I lived in NJ with my mom -- so I caught the Redskins fever thanks to the whole weekend dad exercise when I'd go visit him.

 

But I am not much of a baseball fan anymore.  I used to be a baseball fanatic.

Edited June 17, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

The thing about "if Howell shines, all is forgiven" is that we had a 2nd round grade on him and passed until the middle of day three and then Ron did everything in his power to not start him last year. He wanted Heinicke to finish the season and he refused, so Ron had no choice to play Sam. If Ron is to get credit for Sam, he would have made a switch at the bye last year and then we probably make the playoffs.

 

This offseason, he refused to say that Sam was QB1. He signed a competent career back up with starting potential and although he didn't look into 41 QBs or                                go beg Gibbs for advice, there wasn't anyone else that was coming here.

 

So no, if Howell blows the doors off the NFL, Ron gets no credit.

 

It's been so hard to find that elusive franchise QB, that if Rivera hits on this by hook or crook, I'll forgive him.  But, they still need to win this season.  So for me its not 8-9, and Howell looks good where I'd feel like lets bring back the rodeo again.  But if they win and Howell looks good, I'll be OK with Rivera.

 

I don't think Rivera helped Howell much with this off season.  And because of that my gut is the answer on Howell ends up inconclusive for now.    That's what kills more more than anything about the off season -- Ron can IMO redeem himself if Howell shines -- so why not help him do that?

 

But if by some off chance the O line looks good and Howell looks good and they have a surprise good season -- Rivera would be off the hook with me.  I don't expect that to happen though.

 

[skinny21]

3 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

The plan was to play Howell only if we were out of contention, but Ron thought we were still in the hunt after our lose and back tracked saying that we'd stick with Heinickie. Then he found out we were out of the playoffs and said Howell would probably play the second half, but Taylor refused to play.

Yeah, that was painful, lol.  I’d say my points still stand though.  

 

[zCommander]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It's been so hard to find that elusive franchise QB, that if Rivera hits on this by hook or crook, I'll forgive him.  But, they still need to win this season.  So for me its not 8-9, and Howell looks good where I'd feel like lets bring back the rodeo again.  But if they win and Howell looks good, I'll be OK with Rivera.

 

I don't think Rivera helped Howell much with this off season.  And because of that my gut is the answer on Howell ends up inconclusive for now.    That's what kills more more than anything about the off season -- Ron can IMO redeem himself if Howell shines -- so why not help him do that?

 

But if by some off chance the O line looks good and Howell looks good and they have a surprise good season -- Rivera would be off the hook with me.  I don't expect that to happen though.

 

 

Where Ron failed to me was going after a retread and not shoring up the Oline with the 28K instead. This is what I wanted him to do. Sure you all beat me up for saying to start TH instead. It wasn't even about me liking him or not but to build the lines and then drop a QB from 2023 draft but they got Howell in 2022 and they did that anyway last year and him and TH would have fought for the starting position last year. Clearly Howell would have beaten TH and we would had better idea as to what Howell can and can't do. That would have been an ideal thing to do. 

 

But, I know Dan wanted a "real" QB so maybe I can give Ron a pass on that if that is what really happened. I know Dan has always had win every year mentality and not wait and build. Thank goodness he is gone and we can now actually build a talented team!

 

Moreover, did EB not have a say in what he wanted this year? Is EB content with what he has and maybe thinks he can get more out of less? Transition year didn't help in the matter as well.

 

If Howell is legit and we win say 10 games and get into playoffs I would say Ron deserves to come back next year. 

 

Edited June 17, 2023 by zCommander

[Renegade7]

On 6/16/2023 at 12:28 PM, Warhead36 said:

Rivera is who we needed at the time.

 

But I want someone who is a better in game tactician and more cutting edge and comfortable with analytics.

 

To use an analogy: Ron Rivera is for us what Jeff Fisher was for the Rams. Took them from league joke to at least respectable but still too mediocre to win. Then Sean McVay comes in to take them to the next level.

 

This is just my opinion, but hiring Bieniemy should be the cherry on top for getting Ron in the Ring of Fame for our franchise, medicore or not.

 

After everything he's been through and brought us through, this takes the cake because he's knowingly and willing hired his replacement without flinching.

 

If they start slow, the calls for Ron to be let go and make Bieniemy HC will be deafening...if he retires, its clearly setup for Bieniemy to take over since he's Assistant HC. 

 

Ron went all out to set us up for something better then where we were, even by introducing a clear exit ramp from him as HC by hiring Bieniemy.  I can't think of any HC that has every willing hired their obvious replacement in such a make or break year for themselves, its like saying "if I can't do it, I think I've found someone who can and can live with that if that's what's best for the franchise"...

Edited June 18, 2023 by Renegade7