2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[DWinzit]

4 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I think they still constantly play through injuries. They're monster dudes who dictate where the play is going. They're rarely involved in high speed collisions. It's probably the most violent area of the football field, but less to go wrong.

Hey, perhaps Charles and Cosmi can stay healthy then.....we best make sure they see this!!!

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, DWinzit said:

Hey, perhaps Charles and Cosmi can stay healthy then.....we best make sure they see this!!!

Gates, Wylie, Charles, Cosmi, Larson. I don't know why anyone is worried about is Strom and Daniels are 4rth string. They'll see the field at some point.

[DWinzit]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

Gates, Wylie, Charles, Cosmi, Larson. I don't know why anyone is worried about is Strom and Daniels are 4rth string. They'll see the field at some point.

lol, just hope at least one of them becomes a reliable starter...strom more than likely

[Conn]

They really really want a volunteer it seems

[Dark Acre]

Because just what's going to drive ratings is training camp with the Washington Commanders....

[MrJL]

I hope we're never on that damn show

[redskinss]

27 minutes ago, MrJL said:

I hope we're never on that damn show

I've never watched an episode and I have HBO.

I kind of hope they're on it just so I can see what the show us about and actually be interested but I agree with others that think it's a distraction for the team.

[Skinsinparadise]

6 hours ago, Dark Acre said:

Because just what's going to drive ratings is training camp with the Washington Commanders....

 

The Lions weren't some sexy natural draw last year.  But as happens with most seasons, fans fall for something relating to the team as they watch.  It helped the Lions from going to being uncool to some to cool.

 

I talked about this on another thread.   The business office of this team according to Keim among others wants it but Ron and company do not.  Doesn't surprise me -- like I said while Ron whines about this team doesn't sell tickets and wants the fans back -- he also does not a thing to change that dynamic.  The team that was dead last in ticket sales pre last years Hard Knocks was the Lions ironically.  They ended up doing better post Hard Knocks.  The team which ened up dead last last season was us of course.

 

 

Would Washington have interest in the show? Depends who you ask.

 

Coach Ron Rivera has long been opposed to inviting cameras into the team facility, dating back to when his Carolina Panthers team was shadowed by NFL Films in 2018.

 

"Some guys became part of the show instead of focusing on what they had to focus on," he told The Times-Dispatch in 2020. "So, personally, I wouldn’t do it again.”

 

Rivera said that "some guys won't be themselves," and included himself in that group. He said he was mindful of not providing any viral fodder, though he slipped once, during an expletive-laden halftime speech in Pittsburgh.

 

“I would really have not wanted that to be seen by anybody, least of all my mother,” Rivera said. “That’s how I am when I don’t give a (flip). Usually I try to be aware of where I am on camera, because I don’t want to say anything that was not right. But at that point, I just had to speak my mind.”

 

On the other hand, team president Jason Wright seemed to be openly courting the program in a recent appearance with podcaster Rio Robinson.

"I think (it) would be great for us, because it would give the entire public an opportunity to see the organization that we've become. To see the culture that's been built by Ron and that team. To see the quality of guys we have, to see the phenomenal coaches we have, to highlight Eric Bieniemy and what he brings.

 

"I think it could shed a lot of light on new ownership ... the way they're going to lead, the way they're going to engage the community. I actually think there's probably no better fit than us for the preseason Hard Knocks."

The impending ownership change provides interesting fodder to be sure, but also logistical challenges.

 

...Washington's new offensive coordinator, Eric Bieniemy, will also already be getting some air time in July, as he is likely to be included in Patrick Mahomes' new Netflix series, "Quarterback," which spent last season shadowing the Chiefs' signal caller. Bieniemy was the team's offensive coordinator.

 

 

Edited June 16, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

12 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

 

 

O lineman get banged up for sure.  Every position does in this sport.

 

But as @KDawg used to say on the FA thread we should stop being surprised when we relay or sign injury prone players to be healthy.

 

Cosmi and Charles have established themselves as injury prone players.  As @Koolblue13 pointed out ditto two of our O lineman signings this year.

 

On the other hand, Leno never seems to get hurt.   So I don't think its inevitable that you are going to lose your O lineman to injury every season.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I know the America's team line below is partly a joke but if they do this two years in a row, they will gain some nice PR traction.  Heck look at the love that team is getting for this season compared to us even though our records were about identical.  Now that's not of course because of Hard Knocks but no one argues against the idea that they got a nice national PR boost from that show.  They got 4 prime time games this season.  They are considered deserved or not as an up and coming team, nationally -- this team is considered nationally "meh" at best. The Lions used to be the "meh" team.

 

lol, I'll let go of the point now.    But yeah the lack of oomph-sex appeal of this team bothers me.   Pushing against Hard Knocks is on brand for them.  I know some don't care, just win baby.  I am with the sentiment of just win but we don't do that either.  The opposite of love is indifference.  And I think that's the land we live in for this team.  It's not just a mediocre to losing team but the whole aura around the team is boring. 

 

And I do think the boring as the icing on top is a key factor (not the only one granted) with losing fans and not gaining enough young ones.  I talked about that years back on the Bruce FO thread.  And i do not think they've turned a corner on that front post Bruce.  They've turned a corner from incompetence to some competence and made a good turn away from the sleaze -- but no turns away from boring IMO.  I do expect that to change with Harris, so no sweat. 

 

And look Rivera doesn't have to care about getting fans in seats.  That's not his job.  But he should stop talking about how much he cares about it then -- because if you are going to put that out there repeatedly it gives off the vibe that its indeed on his mind.  And if its truly on his mind he comes totally oblivious to how to get it done.  Fixing this with fans IMO is likely something akin to rebounding from heart disease for a dude who had three heart attacks -- but then just hoping they will heal organically.  Dan leaving will give some initial fan boost for certain. 

 

But I agree with some of the 106.7 guys, I've said the same previously, the Dan is gone bump will likely have shelf life and then expire if the team looks headed to another same old same old season with the same old same old lack of national pizzazz.    

 

 

 

Edited June 16, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[UK Skins]

It will be really embarrassing having everyone watching see how excruciatingly bad our uniforms are. One good thing of having so little media exposure is that presumably isn't widely known. Hope they go with the Lions!

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, UK Skins said:

It will be really embarrassing having everyone watching see how excruciatingly bad our uniforms are. One good thing of having so little media exposure is that presumably isn't widely known. Hope they go with the Lions!

 

I am not a unform guy and if I were I don't mind ours.  But to play along, the Browns many say have the worst color uniforms in the league and they made it on the show with I gather no comments about their attire. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

Back when he first signed with the Washington Commanders, about an hour of his day was dedicated to quizzing himself on the defensive calls. He'd spend some time with the flash cards, walk through it, then look at how it was run on film.

As good as Barton's study habits are, experience is the best teacher. The first test came during OTAs and minicamp, and the linebacker passed with flying colors.

Barton, who the Commanders signed in March after a career season with the Seattle Seahawks, doesn't like to brag, but he prides himself on always being around the ball, giving good effort and playing smart football. After seeing what he could do this offseason, the Commanders are excited for Barton to bring all that and more to their defense.

"Cody's a bigger man, so...he's going to bring a little more thump in the middle of our defense," said defensive coordinator Jack Del Rio.

[Conn]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Rivera said that "some guys won't be themselves," and included himself in that group. He said he was mindful of not providing any viral fodder, though he slipped once, during an expletive-laden halftime speech in Pittsburgh.

 

“I would really have not wanted that to be seen by anybody, least of all my mother,” Rivera said. “That’s how I am when I don’t give a (flip). Usually I try to be aware of where I am on camera, because I don’t want to say anything that was not right. But at that point, I just had to speak my mind.”

 

One consistent byproduct of Rivera’s reign here is that the more he talks, the less I like and respect him as a coach. I’ve rarely seen someone so openly obsessed with perception over results. He does not come across well in this article. 

[KDawg]

22 minutes ago, Conn said:

 

One consistent byproduct of Rivera’s reign here is that the more he talks, the less I like and respect him as a coach. I’ve rarely seen someone so openly obsessed with perception over results. He does not come across well in this article. 

I respect him still as a man and as a coach. And a person. But his style isn’t helping this team move forward. His role here, after this year, needs to be in a front office leadership role (not GM, but guide/president type of role). He is exactly the kind of person you want as your face. 
 

Not necessarily the guy you want running the show.

[Skinsinparadise]

34 minutes ago, Conn said:

 

One consistent byproduct of Rivera’s reign here is that the more he talks, the less I like and respect him as a coach. I’ve rarely seen someone so openly obsessed with perception over results. He does not come across well in this article. 

 

I think his intentions are good.   Good man, good person.

 

But he's a walking contradiction on a number of fronts IMO.

 

He was really outspoken defending Richardson through his sexual harrassment ordeal in Carolina.  i know some defend him in general by saying he's not going to be critical of his bosses.  But its not that.  He went to town defending him and even had his players post victory dedicate the game to Richardson with a rousing speech from Ron to boot while all of that stuff was going down.   We got him as the one and only one that I can tell touting Dan as he leaves.  Again, this isn't about him not criticizing Dan -- its basically him saying the criticism is unwarranted and people should believe in today's version of Dan.  That's intense. 

 

We've not had a coach more outspoken about wanting to bring the fans back and lamenting the lack of attendance among other things.  And I can't think of a coach who operates more like it doesn't matter one whit as to giving fans any red meat -- any excitment as to an off season.  Heck it doesn't have to be name that team like the Giants going after a big name like Waller.  it could be adding picks for next years draft.  It could be something as simple as Hard Knocks.  Something different -- something that brings attention on this team.  But he doesn't even give crumbs on this issue.  I get Vinny Cerrato style you can run a team into the ground by caring about pizzazz.  But Bruce and now Ron are the opposite extreme.   

 

He talked about how in Carolina he won in year 3 and expected and hoped for the same here when he spoke in the off season last year.  It didn't go that way so then he played down those expectations.  And ironically he cited the QB spot and O line as the reasons they didn't make that leap.  And like the previous off season when he labeled the LB spot as a code red spot yet did nothing to address it in the end.  He did the same with O line this off season and followed up with almost nothing. 

 

Looking at it from Josh Harris' point of view.  And I am guessing of course.  If the season goes south, its a no brainer firing.  Because with Ron he seems to lack a killer instinct to aim high.  And he has zero instincts as to how to put fans in the seats when the team isn't winning.   He's sucks at that.  So a mediocre run with no pizzazz -- to me is a rich man's version of Bruce's regime.

 

I admit I am in my own orbit as for judging fan excitment.  Part of what I do in my business is try to get outside of my own vibe and try to see other people's vibe about things.    And I know for people like us who can talk about Troy Apke for days -- we need no pizzazz at all.  We live, eat and drink this team.  But from what I observed the more casual fans and the young fans need a draw when the team isn't winning.  Something to draw them in.   

 

Jersey sales for example are meanigless in the scheme of things.  But when we don't even have a top 100 player on that front and according to some reports about the ownership sale -- sales have been sinking on multiple fronts with this team and hence there wasn't a ton of interest in potential buyers to pay big money for a brand that's sinking -- its a problem.   There are teams that are bad yet have no issue selling anything.  IMO we don't have the luxury to act like we are one of those teams since we aren't.

 

Odell Beckham once said he thought he saved the Giants as to keeping fan interest during their losing seasons.  And I think he's right.  Giants had a run of losing seasons but they weren't boring like this team was.  And i agree this team aren't boring to us and will likely never be.  But we aren't the average audience.  And maybe i am wrong about the average audience -- i am guessing as to that.  But following sales-rankings -- and our team being a punchline on the air and in articles for irrelevance and paying attention to atrophy over the years as to interest in my circle -- i do think its a problem in the soup. 

 

And we do want the new ownership to make money because as evidenced from Dan in recent years -- the lack of sales can effect the team.

Edited June 16, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Keim in a new podcast talked about Barton playing with the 2's.  He asked people in the building about it and was told that he's there right now to catch up with the defense and learn it.

[FootballZombie]

We could REALLY use the splash Hard Knocks would provide, so I'm hoping someway, somehow they find a pathway to real it in. I'm also very surprised HBO is not just forcing the Jets and A-Rod to do it, as it would be a ratings dynamo and all. They really seem to value going somewhere they are wanted.

 

I get the "winning cures all" panacea view some people hold but I've always seen that as shortsighted and dumb. Winning should always be the ultimate goal, and the majority of your moves should be centered around it, but you can't make it your entire existence. Every team in the NFL is trying to win. You can't guarantee on field success.

 

Putting all your eggs in that basket can put you right in the situation we are in now, where we have no on field success to speak of, and minimal effort off the field to support or grow the fanbase. All of a sudden, you have the worst attendance in the league, and the worst local revenue in the league, with the lowest allotment of national games to help expose new audiences to your brand and no love from the media to paint you in a positive light.

 

Teams have to be willing to put in the work off the field to support the fanbase to go along with trying to win as a team. Do things that get fans interested, upkeep stadium experience and increase exposure of your team. These are all things that unlike winning, the org can directly control and guarantee. 

Edited June 16, 2023 by FootballZombie

[757SeanTaylor21]

When is minicamp?

[Fan since a Fetus]

Jason Wright needs to go sooner than later.

[redskinss]

1 hour ago, 757SeanTaylor21 said:

When is minicamp?

Already happened, next stop training camp late july.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, FootballZombie said:

We could REALLY use the splash Hard Knocks would provide, so I'm hoping someway, somehow they find a pathway to real it in. I'm also very surprised HBO is not just forcing the Jets and A-Rod to do it, as it would be a ratings dynamo and all. They really seem to value going somewhere they are wanted.

 

I get the "winning cures all" panacea view some people hold but I've always seen that as shortsighted and dumb. Winning should always be the ultimate goal, and the majority of your moves should be centered around it, but you can't make it your entire existence. Every team in the NFL is trying to win. You can't guarantee on field success.

 

Putting all your eggs in that basket can put you right in the situation we are in now, where we have no on field success to speak of, and minimal effort off the field to support or grow the fanbase. All of a sudden, you have the worst attendance in the league, and the worst local revenue in the league, with the lowest allotment of national games to help expose new audiences to your brand and no love from the media to paint you in a positive light.

 

Teams have to be willing to put in the work off the field to support the fanbase to go along with trying to win as a team. Do things that get fans interested, upkeep stadium experience and increase exposure of your team. These are all things that unlike winning, the org can directly control and guarantee. 

 

As JP Finlay said he could see the decline in attendance and fan interest in 2018 the season after Kirk left.  Interesting to hear that from him because I lump him in with the Krik critics back then. I don't think it was about Kirk per se.  But it was the dismantiling of an offense that was actually good for a change.   Desean.  Garcon.  And ultimately Crowder was let go, too.   A team that can move the ball for change.  We've had the worst QBR at QB in the league since.

 

A personal example for me from that era.  Not just my son but my daughter loved Desean Jackson.  Exciting player.  And exciting isn't what we are used to as to star power on the field.  But we got Bruce smugly defending the break up of that offense among others including by pumping up how they got Brian Quick on the cheap.  I've not been able to keep my daughter's interest in this team even a whit in recent years.  Not saying it was purely based on that but kids have many things vying for their entertainment interest -- what's the pull with this team?    I've been able to keep my son's interest but that's taken a lot of work from me.  

 

For this franchise you pile on one off season after another with no juice.  Again, not by our terms, we eat up everything but by a casual fans terms.  Or so is my guess based on some observations.  Then you got all the sleaze.  And mediocre to bad records.  And regimes that feel out of touch and or out gunned.  Ron can lament all he wants about it -- but clearly he has no clue about the cause of the malaise or has any idea how to fix it.  All he's done is add to the problem to some extent.  He's been an oasis of integrity and class so I have very good feelings about him in that context.  But as to bringing any juice -- he's done zip and if anything added to the problem.

 

Dan bought some time with fans with the juicy off seasons when he started his run.  And I get that makes the idea of making off season moves with pizzazz feel like a losers hand.  But if doesn't have to be.   Eagles off season almost always have pizzazz and they are the best team in the division.  In South Florida, its not hard to catch that the Dolphins feels different now -- they are aggressive and interesting.   Dan was just a loser and incompetent -- he did everything poorly.  

 

You can get away with boring off seasons and ignore fan token items if you win.  But if the drill is mediocrity or worse AND you got no pizzazz?  That's how you end up dead last in attendance.  Don't get Sunday or Monday Night prime time games.   Get beat by the Cowboys ratings wise in your own local market.  Don't sell jerseys.  Don't sell merchandise.  While other teams are climbing on those fronts, we are the only team sliding and sliding fast.    And for those again who don't think it matters what they sell -- clearly it matters, that narrative has been all over this sale as for Dan's limitations because of how the revenue sank.

 

 

Edited June 16, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Conn]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

I respect him still as a man and as a coach. And a person. But his style isn’t helping this team move forward. His role here, after this year, needs to be in a front office leadership role (not GM, but guide/president type of role). He is exactly the kind of person you want as your face. 
 

Not necessarily the guy you want running the show.

Eh. I’ve thought the same in the past (moving him to a public facing role in the FO without roster control or personnel/coaching input). I’m wavering on that. I get the sentiment but I don’t really want to be represented by someone who doesn’t have conviction in the way they conduct themselves (or doesn’t conduct themselves in a manner that represents how they wish to be perceived, either way is a problem to me). I think that was a very revealing quote from Rivera there, about being constantly, distractingly aware of what he’s saying and doing because he’s worried what others will see and (at the time) what his mother would think. That locker room should be his home and his pulpit—he shouldn’t feel the need to alter his behavior in front of the cameras out of self-consciousness. It shouldn’t be that sort of distraction for someone in such a powerful role imo (his concerns with others in the org being distracted I can understand, even if I think it’s overblown and more of a leadership problem than a Hard Knocks problem). 
 

I’m absolutely reading more into it than is normal, but Rivera says a lot of things just to say them and has lots of friends in the national media who buttress his reputation to almost a mythical level with the “respectable good guy Rivera” talk. I do think he’s a nice, good guy generally. I’ve rarely seen someone who loses so much so consistently be given such a long rope for being a nice guy, reputationally. So I’m starting to think that I don’t really see any reason to have him be the face of our org—communicating with the media is not one of his strong suits despite his strong relationships in the media, oddly. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[oraphus]

I dont give a **** what Ron wants. (its been widely shown he does not have the mental fortitude to GM a franchise)  Hard Knocks is what this team NEEDS!

Its a great story.. and a perfect opportunity:

1. Team just got sold and renamed recently

2. New ownership, new blood, new direction as a franchise

3. Great story lines with Howell, Young, Terry

4. David / Goliath angle since this team is viewed as the bottom dweller of the NFCE

5. Finally and most importantly ... get fans of the team excited and put butts in seats.

 

Wash would be dumb NOT to do it.. and of course they wont.

Edited June 16, 2023 by oraphus