The 2023 Draft - Hindsight Picks

[Skinsinparadise]

50 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

There's gotta be context because I'm calling BS over that Marvin Harrison Jr quote. He got open routinely against Banks. The one guy he couldn't do a damn thing against and looked visibly checked out when he had to go against him was Joey Porter Jr. Marvin Harrison Jr had to commit blatant OPI to get enough space for a single catch against Joey Porter and it almost wasn't caught.

 

I'm calling BS on that quote. It must be out of context.

 

Here at the reps Banks versis Harrison.  53 yards on 4 catches last year.  Another said 68 yards.  I just rewatched it.   Here are those reps.  Banks looked good to me considering how Harrison just seem to kill CBs.

 

From Brugler:

A four-year starter at Maryland, Banks was an outside cornerback in defensive coordinator Brian Williams’ balanced scheme. After missing almost all of the 2021 season with a shoulder injury, he got better as the 2022 season went on, including a strong performance versus Ohio State (and Marvin Harrison Jr.) 

https://giantswire.usatoday.com/lists/new-york-giants-deonte-banks-pre-2023-nfl-draft-scouting-reports/

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

48 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

 

I'm calling BS on that quote. It must be out of context.

 

I saw it multiple places on twitter including an Ohio State paper.  If you don't want to believe it or think its out of context its cool.  I don't care.  but it looks very believable to me.

 

https://headtopics.com/us/quick-hits-marvin-harrison-jr-focused-on-winning-jt-tuimoloau-seeks-consistency-and-cade-stover-p-41588316

Harrison said the best defensive back he played last year was Maryland cornerback Deonte Banks, a first-round pick in the 2023 NFL draft. 

 

 

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/2023/07/139765/quick-hits-marvin-harrison-jr-jt-tuimoloau-cade-stover-big-ten-media-days

 

MARVIN HARRISON JR.

• Harrison wore a blue tie with blue and white shoes to pay homage to his father’s career with the Indianapolis Colts and “just to have some style as well.”
• Asked what he can do to make life easier for Ohio State’s new starting quarterback, Harrison said the number one thing is “They need to trust me ... If they can trust that 18’s gonna get open, he’s gonna catch the ball, I think that goes a long way for them.”
• Harrison says his biggest goals for this season are to beat “the team up north” and to win the Big Ten championship because he hasn’t accomplished either of those goals. He doesn‘t want to leave Ohio State without a pair of Gold Pants or a championship ring.
• Harrison believes his biggest improvement this offseason has been off the field and how he takes his care of his body. “Going into this year, I just want to stay as healthy as possible.”
• Harrison said the best defensive back he played last year was Maryland cornerback Deonte Banks, a first-round pick in the 2023 NFL draft.

[skinny21]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I could debate some of these points but doing it would lose the forest for the trees.

 

Ron has made decisions over four off seasons related to the O line. He inherited a good O line.  They now aren't arguably good.

 

If they play well then Ron is vindicated.  If they don't and they don't make the playoffs -- he's not vindicated.  Simple as that.  His fate will play out organically.

 

Judging Ron on this or that latest decision isn't on point to me.  What's on point is in my mind he dug this hole.  He needs to own that.    If he needs to take extra measures to dig himself out that's on him. 

 

If people want to make the case that he didn't need to be aggressive to dig out of that hole or if it doesn't work out, its fine because you can justfiy his decisions not to be aggressive to dig out of the hole -- I disagree with that.

 

It's like a kid getting a D in a class after a series of tests and assignments and now we want to judge that kid purely by the last quiz or two.  Hey they might not have done that hot but they had the flu or the teacher's lessons weren't that clear, hence that quiz didn't go well, etc.  The point isn't about the latest quiz.  The point is about the predicament the kid dug themselves into.   It's not about the last quiz.  It's about the pressure he put on himself where that last quiz or two was critical.

Fair enough, I’ll stop arguing any specific points you make regarding oline.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

Fair enough, I’ll stop arguing any specific points you make regarding oline.

 

lol. you can argue of course anything you feel like within my post.  I didn't mean it that way.  

 

My point is my issue with Ron relates to the series of decisions he's made on that unit.   And I've listed them plenty of times.  So its like someone overweight arguing for why they had that most recent piece of cake and put on more pounds.  My thought is its not about that last piece of cake but its about gaining all the weight leading up to it.  I can argue that piece of cake as an isolated event too but to me the point is about all the pounds gained -- that last piece of cake its just the kicker to the argument for me.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I saw it multiple places on twitter including an Ohio State paper.  If you don't want to believe it or think its out of context its cool.  I don't care.  but it looks very believable to me.

 

https://headtopics.com/us/quick-hits-marvin-harrison-jr-focused-on-winning-jt-tuimoloau-seeks-consistency-and-cade-stover-p-41588316

Harrison said the best defensive back he played last year was Maryland cornerback Deonte Banks, a first-round pick in the 2023 NFL draft. 

 

 

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/2023/07/139765/quick-hits-marvin-harrison-jr-jt-tuimoloau-cade-stover-big-ten-media-days

 

MARVIN HARRISON JR.

• Harrison wore a blue tie with blue and white shoes to pay homage to his father’s career with the Indianapolis Colts and “just to have some style as well.”
• Asked what he can do to make life easier for Ohio State’s new starting quarterback, Harrison said the number one thing is “They need to trust me ... If they can trust that 18’s gonna get open, he’s gonna catch the ball, I think that goes a long way for them.”
• Harrison says his biggest goals for this season are to beat “the team up north” and to win the Big Ten championship because he hasn’t accomplished either of those goals. He doesn‘t want to leave Ohio State without a pair of Gold Pants or a championship ring.
• Harrison believes his biggest improvement this offseason has been off the field and how he takes his care of his body. “Going into this year, I just want to stay as healthy as possible.”
• Harrison said the best defensive back he played last year was Maryland cornerback Deonte Banks, a first-round pick in the 2023 NFL draft.

 

Color me shocked. So it's not out of context, but it still makes no sense. Maybe he's got PTSD from Porter and has repressed it.

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

lol. you can argue of course anything you feel like within my post.  I didn't mean it that way.  

 

My point is my issue with Ron relates to the series of decisions he's made on that unit.   And I've listed them plenty of times.  So its like someone overweight arguing for why they had that most recent piece of cake and put on more pounds.  My thought is its not about that last piece of cake but its about gaining all the weight leading up to it.  I can argue that piece of cake as an isolated event too but to me the point is about all the pounds gained -- that last piece of cake its just the kicker to the argument for me.

Yeah, you’ve been really clear on your stance (and I promise I’ve read every post).  I just meant that you having to reiterate your stance for the umpteenth time because I (or whoever) questions or disagrees with one of your points has got to be tiresome.  And if the specific points (or rather, debate over them) don’t really matter because it’s all about the aggregate outcome, which I get… just means I’m wasting both of our time. 🤷‍♂️

Edited September 6, 2023 by skinny21

[Conn]

1 minute ago, skinny21 said:

Yeah, you’ve been really clear on your stance (and I promise I’ve read every post).  I just meant that you having to reiterate your stance for the umpteenth time because I (or whoever) questions or disagrees with one of your points has got to be tiresome.  And if the specific points (or rather, debate over them) don’t really matter because it’s all about the aggregate outcome, which I get… just means I’m wasting both of our time. 🤷‍♂️

And mine. Don’t forget about my time! 

[Skinsinparadise]

11 hours ago, skinny21 said:

Yeah, you’ve been really clear on your stance (and I promise I’ve read every post).  I just meant that you having to reiterate your stance for the umpteenth time because I (or whoever) questions or disagrees with one of your points has got to be tiresome.  And if the specific points (or rather, debate over them) don’t really matter because it’s all about the aggregate outcome, which I get… just means I’m wasting both of our time. 🤷‍♂️

 

I think the one issue of responding again and again.  it comes off like i think Ron sucks because I've posted so much on what i don't like.  but I don't think he sucks.  He's C plus, B minus work.  He does more I like than what i don't like.  But for me my standards are higher.  I want more.  

Edited September 6, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[SkinsFTW]

On 9/6/2023 at 8:21 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

He's C plus, B minus work. 

In the NFL that = sucks. 

 

Nobody is winning any SB's with c+ or b-  work no matter how lucky they might get. He got extremely lucky once with Cam Newton and allowed the dude to run himself in to the ground physically. That team was stacked and got blown out in the SB by a team with a QB who was finished.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Was just watching some of Colts v Jags. Anthony Richardson is a big mofo.

[KDawg]

LaPorta just had a great little drive for the Lions

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I like Forbes and dug the pick the same day he was picked. I needed like an hour to digest it - my reservation was purely his weight and durability. It should be interesting to compare his career to Gonzalez. Both off to good starts 

 

 

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I like Forbes and dug the pick the same day he was picked. I needed like an hour to digest it - my reservation was purely his weight and durability. It should be interesting to compare his career to Gonzalez. Both off to good starts 

 

 

 

 

I'm surprised! I thought he'd need more of a learning curve in the NFL. Bill Belichick has always been good at scheming things up to the strengths of his DB's.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

I'm surprised! I thought he'd need more of a learning curve in the NFL. Bill Belichick has always been good at scheming things up to the strengths of his DB's.

He’s an athletic freak, size/speed. There was some questions about his toughness and his poor game against Georgia.

 

I read he had a big camp and looks like it’s extended to the season. The draft episode from this team gave the vibe that if Forbes was gone they’d have taken Gonzalez 

[Going Commando]

Gonzo is good, but I'm not feeling any buyer's remorse with Forbes.  Something about this kid is special.  Two big physical stops out on the perimeter and already three really good looks at interceptions.  Only made one of them, but this dude is just a magnet for big plays.  Eventually he will start catching more and more of them.

 

This corner crop is going to end up being a bumper and we're going to be glad we got in on it. Already the first round group looks strong, and probably the best one in it hasn't played yet.

 

This WR class is probably going to end up being a lot better than expected too.  Addison and Flowers already look like studs, and I think Q and JSN will get there too.  Mims Jr looked really dangerous too.  That was a really explosive WR class. Percy Butler ran a 4.36 and Mims pulled away from him in the open field.  That dude is fast as Hell

[mhd24]

5 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

Gonzo is good, but I'm not feeling any buyer's remorse with Forbes.  Something about this kid is special.  Two big physical stops out on the perimeter and already three really good looks at interceptions.  Only made one of them, but this dude is just a magnet for big plays.  Eventually he will start catching more and more of them.

 

This corner crop is going to end up being a bumper and we're going to be glad we got in on it. Already the first round group looks strong, and probably the best one in it hasn't played yet.

 

This WR class is probably going to end up being a lot better than expected too.  Addison and Flowers already look like studs, and I think Q and JSN will get there too.  Mims Jr looked really dangerous too.  That was a really explosive WR class. Percy Butler ran a 4.36 and Mims pulled away from him in the open field.  That dude is fast as Hell

Who are you referring to GC?  If it is Witherspoon, he played week 2.

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, mhd24 said:

Who are you referring to GC?  If it is Witherspoon, he played week 2.

 

Yeah Witherspoon.  I didn't know he played, that's really good to hear.

[Warhead36]

Joey Porter Jr, the guy I wanted if we had to go CB, looked good yesterday too.

 

I think its gonna end up being like last year's WR class where just about all of them look like they'll be keepers. Like GC said, I think in a couple years time we'll be glad we got ourselves a playmaking CB instead of reaching for a mediocre at best OL.

[Rufus T Firefly]

I really like Forbes. No real problem with that pick. But yeah, Gonzalez looks pretty spectacular so far. People here in New England are pretty psyched over him. Well.... when they're not ****ing about Belichick or Mac Jones, or the OL, or whatever else. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

52 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

I really like Forbes. No real problem with that pick. But yeah, Gonzalez looks pretty spectacular so far. People here in New England are pretty psyched over him. Well.... when they're not ****ing about Belichick or Mac Jones, or the OL, or whatever else. 

 

[DWinzit]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Gonzo 1st, Pace not freaking drafted, Spears 3rd ad Laporta 2nd were all players I thought were great fits for us and really wanted them all along with a few OL. 

Nice to see they are kicking butt even if not with Washington

[Skinsinparadise]

10 hours ago, Going Commando said:

Gonzo is good, but I'm not feeling any buyer's remorse with Forbes.  Something about this kid is special.  Two big physical stops out on the perimeter and already three really good looks at interceptions.  Only made one of them, but this dude is just a magnet for big plays.  Eventually he will start catching more and more of them.

 

This corner crop is going to end up being a bumper and we're going to be glad we got in on it. Already the first round group looks strong, and probably the best one in it hasn't played yet.

 

This WR class is probably going to end up being a lot better than expected too.  Addison and Flowers already look like studs, and I think Q and JSN will get there too.  Mims Jr looked really dangerous too.  That was a really explosive WR class. Percy Butler ran a 4.36 and Mims pulled away from him in the open field.  That dude is fast as Hell

 

Mims was one of a handful of receivers I watched and liked in that WR group.   I stopped watching Wrs when the beat guys made it clear that the team has a shopping list for the draft and WR is unlikely to be on that list.

 

Mims got Forbes for a 54 yarder and Forbes as we know can run, too.

 

I was in the Gonzalez > Porter group on the draft thread.  As I recall you were.  In the moment, when our pick was up Gonzalez is who I wanted.  As I digested the Forbes pick, I liked it so I was cool with the decision.

 

Part of the reason why I liked Gonzalez was I thought his hands were real.  if I recall 4 picks last year in college and they were some really nice picks, diving catches, etc.  And a freak as far as size-speed.

 

As hyped as this fan base as been about Forbes.  Hard to miss that Gonzalez is the more hyped CB nationally -- a lot of buzz during the preseason and off to a hot start in the season. 

 

Like you, I think both end up good.  And it looks like both fan bases like to compare the two players but its too early IMO to do that

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

PFF is far from the be all and end, but for what its worth here's their early take.  I highlight some of the guys we talked a lot about on the draft thread or that are relevant to our division.

 

 

 

PICK NO. 6: ARIZONA CARDINALS: OT PARIS JOHNSON JR.

Overall Rookie Grade: 58.8 (Rank: 2/4)
Principal Opponent: Jihad Ward
Week 2 Snaps: 64
Week 2 Grade: 65.7

Johnson showed improvement this week with a 65.7 overall grade. He struggled a bit in pass protection, allowing two hurries and losing four other pass-blocking reps. He did, however, improve in the run game with three positively graded blocks across 29 such snaps after having none last week. His contributions helped the Cardinals rush for more than 150 yards on the day.

 

 

PICK NO. 9: PHILADELPHIA EAGLES: DI JALEN CARTER

Overall Rookie Grade: 90.2 (Rank: 1/12)
Principal Opponent: Ezra Cleveland
Week 2 Snaps: 28
Week 2 Grade: 64.8

It was a more normal week for Carter after his record-setting debut. He posted a 64.8 overall grade on his 28 snaps. Despite the mediocre grade, Carter still came away with three pressures and made two run stops on just three run-defense snaps. His playmaking ability is off the charts, and he has only one play with a negative grade through two games.

---

PICK NO. 10: CHICAGO BEARS: OT DARNELL WRIGHT

Overall Rookie Grade: 67.3 (Rank: 1/4)
Principal Opponent: Shaquil Barrett
Week 2 Snaps: 52
Week 2 Grade: 58.2

Following a solid showing in Week 1, Wright was mediocre in Week 2, posting a 58.2 overall grade. His lowlight was being badly beaten outside by Shaquil Barrett for a sack. It was one of three times Barrett had his number on the day, struggling with his speed rush and counter move inside. Wright’s job doesn’t get any easier this week. He may see a bit of Chris Jones, who played 23 snaps at or over the right tackle in Week 2.

 

 

PICK NO. 16: WASHINGTON COMMANDERS: CB EMMANUEL FORBES

Overall Rookie Grade: 48.5 (Rank: 10/11)
Principal Opponent: Courtland Sutton
Week 2 Snaps: 44
Week 2 Grade: 36.4

Forbes struggled badly against Denver in Week 2, allowing four catches for 86 and posting a paltry 25.7 run-defense grade. He also missed two tackles and committed a penalty in coverage. On the bright side, he collected his first career interception and broke up another pass. The Broncos made it a point to target Forbes, and they did so more often than any other Commanders defender.

Interestingly, they repeatedly targeted him on out routes. On three targets on such plays, he allowed two catches and committed the penalty. He’ll look to adjust on the fly against a tough Buffalo team next week.

---

PICK NO. 17: NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS: CB CHRISTIAN GONZALEZ

Overall Rookie Grade: 82.6 (Rank: 1/11)
Principal Opponent: Tyreek Hill
Week 2 Snaps: 63
Week 2 Grade: 90.9

Gonzalez could not have drawn tougher matchups in his first two games, facing Philadelphia and Miami. He excelled against the latter, producing a 90.9 grade that led all qualified cornerbacks in Week 2. He out-jumped Tyreek Hill for an interception while playing his only rep of the game at free safety. He didn’t allow a reception to Hill and let up only one catch for 15 yards to Jaylen Waddle. He may be New England’s best cornerback right now.

 

 

PICK NO. 18: DETROIT LIONS: LB JACK CAMPBELL

Overall Rookie Grade: 56.5 (Rank: 4/4)
Principal Opponent: D.K. Metcalf
Week 2 Snaps: 23
Week 2 Grade: 61.1

Campbell was mediocre in limited work this week, as evidenced by his 61.1 overall grade. He allowed two catches for 21 yards and a first down. He was active with five total tackles but is used primarily in coverage packages to maximize his skill set.

 

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PICK NO. 20: SEATTLE SEAHAWKS: WR JAXON SMITH-NJIGBA

Overall Rookie Grade: 55.2 (Rank: 11/11)
Principal Opponent: Brian Branch
Week 2 Snaps: 40
Week 2 Grade: 57.5

Smith-Njigba had another relatively quiet day in Week 2, catching five passes for 34 yards. He has been Seattle's primary slot receiver, finding windows in zone coverage and catching short passes. His best play of the day came on a scramble drill where he made a nice adjustment back across the field as Geno Smith broke the pocket. Smith just seems reluctant to look Smith-Njigba’s way when he runs more vertical routes.

 

 

PICK NO. 24: NEW YORK GIANTS: CB DEONTE BANKS

Overall Rookie Grade: 50.8 (Rank: 8/11)
Principal Opponent: Marquise Brown
Week 2 Snaps: 64
Week 2 Grade: 44.5

Banks surrendered four catches for 49 yards and three first downs against Arizona. He also busted a deep-third assignment, leaving Zach Ertz open down the sideline. Luckily, Joshua Dobbs missed the throw, but that doesn’t absolve Banks of his error. His team-low 39.0 coverage grade for the week was a bottom-10 mark among all cornerbacks. The Giants ask a lot of Banks in their man-heavy scheme, and he will likely experience more growing pains along the way.

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PICK NO. 25: BUFFALO BILLS: TE DALTON KINCAID

Overall Rookie Grade: 58.9 (Rank: 3/3)
Principal Opponent: Robert Spillane
Week 2 Snaps: 47
Week 2 Grade: 60.1

Kincaid has played a ton during the first two weeks since the Bills lead the league in 12 personnel usage. He has made nine catches for 69 yards through two games, making the most of what he can in the short passing game. Kincaid has yet to create an explosive play, but that’s in part because Buffalo’s opponents have been sitting back preventing deep shots. Kincaid’s substantial playing time will allow him to make big plays eventually.

 

 

PICK NO. 27: JACKSONVILLE JAGUARS: OT ANTON HARRISON

Overall Rookie Grade: 46.2 (Rank: 4/4)
Principal Opponent: George Karlaftis/Chris Jones
Week 2 Snaps: 66
Week 2 Grade: 45.7

Harrison was the primary victim of Chris Jones’ return in Week 2. Harrison faced Jones in pass protection 13 times and allowed two sacks and a hurry with another four lost reps, including one that led to a batted pass. This was arguably the biggest mismatch in the NFL this week, as Harrison posted an ugly 29.6 pass-blocking grade. There will be better days ahead for the rookie, but this will be a matchup to watch if the Jaguars see Kansas City again in the postseason.