The 2023 Draft - Hindsight Picks

[DWinzit]

They have Pace wearing the green dot helmet now?  That just adds to the misery 

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

They have Pace wearing the green dot helmet now?  That just adds to the misery 

Don’t worry, SIP will remind us again tomorrow for his daily dopamine rush from the pain and agony he can spread amongst his fellow Commandos.

 

[Daniel.redskins]

Hopefully some of these rookies play well tonight.  Because I haven't seen **** from any of them except Forbes, Rodriguez, and Jones.  And Jones is a stretch to make the team.  Not very good Ron.  

[Anselmheifer]

Dawand Jones was just an egregious and awful oversight. We have Below average starters and below average depth at OT and we passed on him for a center that probably won’t play this year? 
 

I can not wait until Ron is t the GM. 

[mhd24]

21 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Dawand Jones was just an egregious and awful oversight. We have Below average starters and below average depth at OT and we passed on him for a center that probably won’t play this year? 
 

I can not wait until Ron is t the GM. 

 

As I said earlier in this thread, I have no issues on passing on Dawaand.  Everyone on this board were fans of his during the draft process.  Despite that, this dude:

1). Quit after one day at the senior bowl.

2). Had horrendous interviews at the combine.

3). According to all of the draft insiders like Tony Pauline, had the worst pro-day ever basically (showed up in horrible shape and had poor interviews again)

4). Up can cancels an pre-draft visit with us (and we showed legit interest in him during the process).

 

The whole NFL passed on this guy until the 4th round.  They know more than we do.  He was arguably better than Paris Johnson in College and Johnson goes top 10 while Dawaand falls to the 4th round.  There's a reason for this.    

[Koolblue13]

We really should stop with the "I'd take Dawaan in the 3rd" talk, because yeah. Nobody else would have, so no you wouldn't have. Especially us.

 

Now, trading back pretty far and drafting Anton and JMS on the other hand......

[Warhead36]

Yeah I'm not gonna kill them for passing on Dawaan. The guy torpedoed his pre draft stock. He was undraftable and the team would have been brutalized(deservedly so)if they took him in the 3rd. Maybe you take a shot in like the 6th or 7th.

[mhd24]

30 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

We really should stop with the "I'd take Dawaan in the 3rd" talk, because yeah. Nobody else would have, so no you wouldn't have. Especially us.

 

Now, trading back pretty far and drafting Anton and JMS on the other hand......

 

You can't trade back if there are dance partners.  No one traded up from 16 (our pick) to 24.  Taking Harrison at 16 would have been a massive reach.  I have no problem taking Forbes at 16.  CB was the biggest need area on the team after OL.  Once the top 4 OL (Johnson, Wright, Skoronski, and Jones), there was no one worthy of going at 16 in terms of OL.  We were stuck at 16 and took the CB we rated as the best on the board.

[method man]

The hidden miss was taking Daniels instead of Carter Warren. Given his experience, frame and length, Warren is a guy you were more likely to count on as a 4th tackle at the minimum. 

[Koolblue13]

2 hours ago, mhd24 said:

 

You can't trade back if there are dance partners. 

No ****, but nobody knows if there weren't option to move further back and besides, it's the hindsight thread.

 

2 hours ago, mhd24 said:

 Taking Harrison at 16 would have been a massive reach.

Not if he becomes a starting tackle for 10 years

 

2 hours ago, mhd24 said:

We were stuck at 16 and took the CB we rated as the best on the board.

I'm high on Forbes and really like the pick and saying that we could or should have pick someone else, is not indicative of my opinion of Forbes.

1 hour ago, method man said:

The hidden miss was taking Daniels instead of Carter Warren. Given his experience, frame and length, Warren is a guy you were more likely to count on as a 4th tackle at the minimum. 

Herbig. That's who I was on the table for for months.

[mhd24]

16 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

No ****, but nobody knows if there weren't option to move further back and besides, it's the hindsight thread.

 

 

The evidence is that no team traded down from our pick 16 to Jacksonville (who traded down from 24 to 25 with NYG).  The Jets took the entire 10 minutes at 15 hoping someone would want to trade up and no one did in order to recoup some draft capital lost in the Rodgers trade.  They relented when no one called and took McDonald.  Baltimore & Dallas supposedly loved Forbes.  I have no issue with Forbes.  Now if Wright, Johnson, or Skoronski were there, I would have taken them.  

 

It is entirely reasonable to question the Quan pick given the options like Mauch, JMS, etc.  I don't see questioning the Forbes pick given the lack of trade options and the players remaining on the board.

[PlayAction]

Rivera needed to hit this draft out of the park.  He didn't on the ones he picked and passed on ones that look to be instantly productive.  IMO, Rivera is a lame duck.  The other coaches are still working for their future contracts.  Find a real GM.

[DWinzit]

5 hours ago, mhd24 said:

 

The evidence is that no team traded down from our pick 16 to Jacksonville (who traded down from 24 to 25 with NYG).  The Jets took the entire 10 minutes at 15 hoping someone would want to trade up and no one did in order to recoup some draft capital lost in the Rodgers trade.  They relented when no one called and took McDonald.  Baltimore & Dallas supposedly loved Forbes.  I have no issue with Forbes.  Now if Wright, Johnson, or Skoronski were there, I would have taken them.  

If Washington had not telegraphed their Forbes crush the second half of the round could have played out differently.

I was a big Harrison fan but I agree, 16 was a little reach for him. He would have however been worthy at any place in the 20's. 

To have come out of the round with Harrison and an additional day 2 selection would have been ideal. The idea isn't that far fetched either.

The CB talent in this draft was incredible, every pick we had, there was a DB more than worthy of being taken.

[Skinsinparadise]

one of mine and others favorite late round and certaintly UDFA players.  Sucks that its Dallas.

 

 

 

On 8/23/2023 at 7:29 PM, DWinzit said:

If Washington had not telegraphed their Forbes crush the second half of the round could have played out differently.

I was a big Harrison fan but I agree, 16 was a little reach for him. He would have however been worthy at any place in the 20's. 

To have come out of the round with Harrison and an additional day 2 selection would have been ideal. The idea isn't that far fetched either.

The CB talent in this draft was incredible, every pick we had, there was a DB more than worthy of being taken.

 

I was good with Forbes but didn't know at the time they were going to take no O lineman that will start for 2023.

 

I was one of the bigger fans of Anton on the draft thread.

 

I know some defend Ron by saying this just wasn't the draft to take O lineman early in the spots we had.  Maybe.  Will see.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

Forbes wouldn't have lasted past Baltimore. They love athletic ballhawk DBs.

[Going Commando]

On 8/23/2023 at 12:08 PM, method man said:

The hidden miss was taking Daniels instead of Carter Warren. Given his experience, frame and length, Warren is a guy you were more likely to count on as a 4th tackle at the minimum. 

 

Warren's injury history was severe though, and he's already on IR now.  He wasn't the answer.

 

We can wrack our brains trying to figure out who we should have taken instead of Daniels, but there won't be any clear answers that don't emerge completely from hindsight.  Even though most people hate the Daniels pick,

 

1 - this was a terrible OL class, especially after the first round, but even the first rounders were relatively weak and flawed.

 

2 - Daniels was basically the only OL left with the athleticism necessary to become an eventual starter.  I know this because I ran into exactly the same dilemma in the ES mock draft and had to pick Daniels because all of the OLs left on the board were slow, stiff career back up types.  I don't think anyone else left was even a worthwhile project to take on and redshirt because the upside wasn't there.

 

I liked Wanya Morris, but that guy was like a fifth round pick in a normal year and he went at the end of the third.  After we passed on Anton Harrison, our choices were Dawand or Daniels IMO, and yeah, Dawand had UN building number of flags.  I didn't back off of him like most did because I don't put stock in what Bob McGinn publishes, but even I understood why we passed on him.  His weight alone is going to be a career-long battle for him that could make it so he never realizes his potential.  I would have drafted him in the third round if I had been in charge.  But I'm ok passing on him.  He's still just a lottery ticket, and I like Daniels too.

[Skinsinparadise]

All McGinn had in Daniels was his 9 score on the Wonderlic which if I recall was dead last among the highlighted O lineman.  McGinn bascially just quotes scouts who work for NFL teams.  His top 100 typically have mirrored what actually happens on draft draft better than any mock drafter.  Hence that's the hype he gets.

 

I think they could have done a lot better in the 4th-5th rounds in particular.  Not so much at O line.  IMO the 2nd round was the missed opportunity on that front.  But at other spots and other players that I and others have mentioned.  And did so in real time, too.

 

I didn't hate the Daniels pick, didn't love it either.  I talked about Daniels every now and then on the draft thread. 

 

Feels at the moment like a "meh" draft in terms of 2023 contributions.  But I think and hope it will age better afterwards.

 

Quan who was one of my favorite players in this draft has struggled in the preseason.  Stromberg who was also one of my favs is the player that seems to have come on late in camp.  That's a good sign.  Forbes will start this season.

 

Daniels supposedly had a rough camp.  KJ Henry, too.  Rodriguez looks promising.  Andre Jones is raw but with some promise.

 

Back to Quan.  It was a luxury pick considering their depth at safety in particular and even slot.  As much as i liked the player in college.  That mindset of going with a luxury pick there and forgoing the O line, I'd bet will be one of the reasons why this team won't make the playoffs and will cost Ron his job.  So my bet is that pick in particular he will regret in 2023.  But I predict that pick will age well. 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

All McGinn had in Daniels was his 9 score on the Wonderlic which if I recall was dead last among the highlighted O lineman.  McGinn bascially just quotes scouts who work for NFL teams.  His top 100 have mirrored what actually happens on draft draft better than any mock drafted.  Hence that's the hype he gets.

 

McGinn publishes gossip, and some of it is pretty nasty and borderline slanderous.  I don't like what he does, and I think it's telling that he's not writing for the Athletic any more.  He's distracting and salacious, and what I'll remember most from reading his articles is seeing how stupid and biased his NFL sources can be.

 

I am a big Anton Harrison fan too, and would have considered him at 16 too.  I would have had him over Forbes, but I was too low on Forbes.  All of us were too low on Forbes pre draft.  None of us banged the table for him and most didn't even have him as a solid first rounder until maybe the week of the draft when all of the rumors about his stock emerged.  In hindsight, Forbes looks special and I think the FO made the right call picking him over Harrison.  He's got a palpable star quality that makes me think future Probowler with him, and I think he's gonna be better than Gonzalez and Porter Jr.  I definitely think he's better than Banks.  The other CBs I loved had some issues.  Brents got picked too high for my comfort level, and Phillips was too small to stay outside like Forbes, though I would still love to have him.  Same for Hodges-Thomlinson.  I liked Cam Smith's film but there were supposedly serious character concerns with him.  And Kelee Ringo was a low IQ player and the fact he went in the third bears out the league felt the same way about him.  We're going to end up being happy we took Forbes IMO.  It was an impressive pick to me.

 

As far as Quan over Mauch and JMS, I'm going to let that play out.  I liked but didn't love JMS. I thought his film and his SB work were kind of meh.  I liked Mauch much better, but I was always skeptical about moving him to OC.  That's a difficult transition and I'm not convinced he could have played as a rookie at OC for us.  I think Quan is going to be good.  His film was fantastic and he still had his flashy moments through the struggles in the preseason.  He's going to generate a lot of turnovers and big hits, and he can eventually start in our defensive system.  This FO has been particularly good at finding and developing DBs and Quan will probably end up being a thumping nickel with elite man coverage ability.

 

Oluwatimi is the IOL I wish we had picked.  I liked his film more than JMS, Avila, and Tippman.  And I liked his film way more than Stromberg's, Scruggs's, and Wypler's.  And all I remember of Jake Andrews was him getting dominated at the SB practices like almost all of the other OLs in the class.  Oluwatimi is the only mistake I regret in the OL class. We could have gotten him in the fifth without trading up, he's better than KJ Henry IMO, and we could have passed on Stromberg in the third and used the pick to take a swing on Dawand instead.  Or anyone really.  Maybe Clark Phillips.  It's good that Stromberg looks like he's going to work out though.  He has the height to play guard whereas Olu woild have been a center only.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

On 8/21/2023 at 10:04 AM, KDawg said:

Don’t worry, SIP will remind us again tomorrow for his daily dopamine rush from the pain and agony he can spread amongst his fellow Commandos.

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

35 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

McGinn publishes gossip, and some of it is pretty nasty and borderline slanderous.  I don't like what he does, and I think it's telling that he's not writing for the Athletic any more.  He's distracting and salacious, and what I'll remember most from reading his articles is seeing how stupid and biased his NFL sources can be.

 

 

 

 

I've not heard anything about him being kicked off the Athletic.  So not sure that his move elsewhere was prompted or not.   The dude is talked about by draft geeks all the time, including Schrager on GMF, and not in pejorative terms.

 

Scouts from other teams just lay it all out, warts and everything with their takes.    We might hate that.  We can make fun of that.  But still these scouts beat Brugler, Kipers and name that draft geek as to projecting how high or low these players end up going in the draft.   He's been doing this for eons for that reason.  

 

48 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

 

I am a big Anton Harrison fan too, and would have considered him at 16 too.  I would have had him over Forbes, but I was too low on Forbes.  All of us were too low on Forbes pre draft.  None of us banged the table for him and most didn't even have him as a solid first rounder until maybe the week of the draft when all of the rumors about his stock emerged.  In hindsight, Forbes looks special and I think the FO made the right call picking him over Harrison.  He's got a palpable star quality that makes me think future Probowler with him, and I think he's gonna be better than Gonzalez and Porter Jr.  I definitely think he's better than Banks.  The other CBs I loved had some issues. 

 

 

 

My issue with him was his size.  If he holds up physically it looks like he will be a good pick.  But will see.  i liked Banks and from what I've read he had a killer run in his preseason games.  The Giant fans, their media and to some extent the national media seem very high on their draft.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Koolblue13]

CB Ricks made the Eagles 53. I missed on Pace big time, like the rest of the league. Can't believe he's their GD day one starter. 

 

Day three, if we addressed our code Red offensive line day 1/2 like we we're planning and where the Oline day one starters were and went after LB&DB day three, where the depth of the draft was, we could have come away with Herbig, Pace, Ricks for our defense. I would have grabbed Bagent, too.

 

Day three was the day my defense of RonMart stopped. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

I am a big Anton Harrison fan too, and would have considered him at 16 too.  I would have had him over Forbes, but I was too low on Forbes.  All of us were too low on Forbes pre draft.  None of us banged the table for him and most didn't even have him as a solid first rounder until maybe the week of the draft when all of the rumors about his stock emerged.  In hindsight, Forbes looks special and I think the FO made the right call picking him over Harrison.  He's got a palpable star quality that makes me think future Probowler with him, and I think he's gonna be better than Gonzalez and Porter Jr.  I definitely think he's better than Banks.  The other CBs I loved had some issues.  Brents got picked too high for my comfort level, and Phillips was too small to stay outside like Forbes, though I would still love to have him.  Same for Hodges-Thomlinson.  I liked Cam Smith's film but there were supposedly serious character concerns with him.  And Kelee Ringo was a low IQ player and the fact he went in the third bears out the league felt the same way about him.  We're going to end up being happy we took Forbes IMO.  It was an impressive pick to me.

 

 

I know you liked Harrison, too.  If he ends up a shot down type of tackle, that would be the better pick in the context of this team IMO.  But we don't know, will see.

 

The depth at corner in this draft was really good and they fell in places to land taking different guys who can contriibute in various rounds.  I've done the exercise before but I am feeling too lazy to go back and rehash.

 

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

 

As far as Quan over Mauch and JMS, I'm going to let that play out.  I liked but didn't love JMS. I thought his film and his SB work were kind of meh.  I liked Mauch much better, but I was always skeptical about moving him to OC.  That's a difficult transition and I'm not convinced he could have played as a rookie at OC for us.  I think Quan is going to be good.  His film was fantastic and he still had his flashy moments through the struggles in the preseason.  He's going to generate a lot of turnovers and big hits, and he can eventually start in our defensive system.  This FO has been particularly good at finding and developing DBs and Quan will probably end up being a thumping nickel with elite man coverage ability.

 

 

I did some long posts pushing Quan the week before the draft.  He struck me as a slight poor man's version of Brian Branch.  Good slot player-FS.  I didn't like him at outside corner so much.  But he can tackle and big time so albiet hasn't shown that this preseason.  He became one of my favs,

 

I still see it as a luxury pick.  we got slot corners.  We got depth at safety as is.  If Ron wants to win this year, he should have taken Mauch IMO.  And i didn't envision moving him to center.  Have him play guard and still take Stromberg.  We talked in the draft thread about them maybe them even taking an O lineman in the first and 2nd.  None of thought they'd not take one in either round.

 

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

Oluwatimi is the IOL I wish we had picked.  I liked his film more than JMS, Avila, and Tippman.  And I liked his film way more than Stromberg's, Scruggs's, and Wypler's.  And all I remember of Jake Andrews was him getting dominated at the SB practices like almost all of the other OLs in the class.  Oluwatimi is the only mistake I regret in the OL class. We could have gotten him in the fifth without trading up, he's better than KJ Henry IMO, and we could have passed on Stromberg in the third and used the pick to take a swing on Dawand instead.  Or anyone really.  Maybe Clark Phillips.  It's good that Stromberg looks like he's going to work out though.  He has the height to play guard whereas Olu woild have been a center only.

 

 

 

I liked him but ironically not more than the centers you mentioned.  He'd be the one after them.   But yeah in general it was a good draft for center.

 

I recall you weren't high on Wypler.  He's had a good preseason

 

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[stoshuaj]

On 8/23/2023 at 10:52 AM, mhd24 said:

 

Taking Harrison at 16 would have been a massive reach.  

There’s no such thing as a massive reach in the hindsight thread where yes, everyone has 20-20 after the fact vision. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Reaches are based on what?  Mock Drafters?  Many of them who had Forbes, Jamin and Dotson in the 2nd round in their mocks. 

 

If Anton Harrison becomes a stud tackle (of course its an if) its no reach.    

[Going Commando]

Harrison will have to be clearly better than Forbes to make me wish we had picked him instead.  Forbes has Probowl upside at corner, that is game changing value for a defense.  But even if they both become Pro-Bowlers, put a Probowler in at RT and that's not transforming the offense.

 

The position value doesn't really match up, and on top of that, I think Forbes is going to be a better player without considering position value.  Gotta go BPA even if it seems like a luxury pick.  Today's luxury picks are tomorrow's foundation players you build your whole roster around.  Today's need picks are the picks you're trying to upgrade before their rookie contracts are up.