The 2023 Draft - Hindsight Picks

[Going Commando]

41 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Who’s doing the tire kicking?

 

The next regime.  I wouldn't trade for Murphy before the end of the season, nor would I expect him to be available before the deadline.

[Warhead36]

Wasn't Murphy one of our targets in the 1st round along with Van Ness(in terms of DEs)?

[Going Commando]

Actually... I would trade Montez for Murphy in a straight player swap.

[Koolblue13]

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Wasn't Murphy one of our targets in the 1st round along with Van Ness(in terms of DEs)?

 

Maybe.  They met with him, Keim mentioned they liked him.

[KDawg]

I’d love Myles Murphy if we can get him for a 4th or 5th (maybe even a third). Replace Sweat. 

[Skinsinparadise]

He was on Terry for much of that game

 

 

 

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

I’d love Myles Murphy if we can get him for a 4th or 5th (maybe even a third). Replace Sweat. 

 

I liked Murphy in that draft.  A lot of posts on twitter from fans saying he's a bust.  I haven't been following as to why.  But its so early to call any rookie a bust.

 

 

 

 

[DWinzit]

9 hours ago, Going Commando said:

Actually... I would trade Montez for Murphy in a straight player swap.

Nice job noticing how little play time he is getting and bringing him up. I think most of us liked his potential on draft day.

 

He isn't exactly buried behind killer players. To me that means his rawness must still be shinning through. The knock on him was being able to get off blocks, he must still be having issues or i'd think he would be in a whole lot more. Funny because he has the long arms and some good moves but needs to get off blocks. I never paid attention to how he is against the run but a new regime making a trade for him would be a nice move

[KDawg]

Just now, DWinzit said:

Nice job noticing how little play time he is getting and bringing him up. I think most of us liked his potential on draft day.

 

He isn't exactly buried behind killer players. To me that means his rawness must still be shinning through. The knock on him was being able to get off blocks, he must still be having issues or i'd think he would be in a whole lot more. Funny because he has the long arms and some good moves but needs to get off blocks. I never paid attention to how he is against the run but a new regime making a trade for him would be a nice move

Can probably get him cheap IF he was available. I don’t see why anyone would give up on him after a season, though.

[DWinzit]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

Can probably get him cheap IF he was available. I don’t see why anyone would give up on him after a season, though.

Agreed, unless he just isn't getting it. Then wed need to question if we want him. He is full of potential, I'd think they would have little interest in letting him go.

But hey, doesn't hurt to find low tires and kick em once or twice!

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Can probably get him cheap IF he was available. I don’t see why anyone would give up on him after a season, though.

 

Don't see why they'd trade him either.  Be like having Forbes on the trading block already.

Edited October 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

40 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Don't see why they'd trade him either.  Be like having Forbes on the trading block already.

Shhhh...some of the fans are ready for that already. 

I do however agree, there was a reason for them taking him in the first and giving up after half a year or one full season is unrealistic. Crazy things have happened but very doubtful

 

Inquiring about Murphy is a Howie Roseman type of move

Edited October 26, 2023 by DWinzit

[Going Commando]

44 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Don't see why they'd trade him either.  Be like having Forbes on the trading block already.

If someone offered me a fully developed good player at the same position for Forbes, I would take it.

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, Going Commando said:

If someone offered me a fully developed good player at the same position for Forbes, I would take it.

 

My point is how often does a struggiling first round pick in mid season of their rookie year get traded.   Among other things does the FO want to admit a mistake that fast?

[Koolblue13]

It depends what they're seeing in practice. Did we break Forbes completely putting him alone on some of the leagues best, one of which had 50lbs on him? 

 

I don't see any team trading a guy like Sweat with no contract for a guy with first round potential on a rookie deal, unless they're convinced that  player is a total JAG.

 

In that case, why do you want him?

[KDawg]

40 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

If someone offered me a fully developed good player at the same position for Forbes, I would take it.

I don’t see any scenario where we would trade Sweat for Murphy straight up… especially considering that trade would need to be now. 
 

You said above you wouldn’t trade for Murphy before the end of the season, so if you wouldn’t do it now, then you wouldn’t be able to trade Sweat for him anyways… and it gets back to my original question: who is doing the overseeing?

 

We should be kicking tires on Murphy, Pittman, and various potential OL prospects right now. But we don’t have anyone running the FO who isn’t a Ron hire (that we know of).

 

This isn’t how I’d transition. Obviously this isn’t enough for me to look at Harris and say, “oh boy… this isn’t going to be good…”

 

I’m just overall frustrated that we aren’t forward thinking yet (on the surface). I reserve some space in my head that we could be doing much more behind the scenes than we see. But we can only go by what we see. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[bird_1972]

On 10/25/2023 at 10:45 PM, Koolblue13 said:

I still don't understand how this guy ended up undrafted. Crazy to me.

On 10/26/2023 at 8:01 AM, Koolblue13 said:

It depends what they're seeing in practice. Did we break Forbes completely putting him alone on some of the leagues best, one of which had 50lbs on him? 

 

I don't see any team trading a guy like Sweat with no contract for a guy with first round potential on a rookie deal, unless they're convinced that  player is a total JAG.

 

In that case, why do you want him?

 

The problem is that Forbes is our first rounder (taken quite high, as well). We can't worry about "breaking him" by putting him on elite WRs. He's going to need to be able to handle that. If not, it means that the FO assessment of him was wildly overinflated. Unfortunately, it's looking like that's the case. 

[Koolblue13]

35 minutes ago, bird_1972 said:

I still don't understand how this guy ended up undrafted. Crazy to me.

 

The problem is that Forbes is our first rounder (taken quite high, as well). We can't worry about "breaking him" by putting him on elite WRs. He's going to need to be able to handle that. If not, it means that the FO assessment of him was wildly overinflated. Unfortunately, it's looking like that's the case. 

I don't know how Ricks went UD either. I was hoping we'd land him in the 4rth or 5th.

 

There is a big transition to the Pros. Just because he's a first rounder doesn't mean he has to be a super star day one. We're not even half way through the season and have some bad position coaches. It's a lot early to call him a bust.

[Going Commando]

19 hours ago, bird_1972 said:

I still don't understand how this guy ended up undrafted. Crazy to me.

 

The problem is that Forbes is our first rounder (taken quite high, as well). We can't worry about "breaking him" by putting him on elite WRs. He's going to need to be able to handle that. If not, it means that the FO assessment of him was wildly overinflated. Unfortunately, it's looking like that's the case. 

 

It doesn't matter what round you draft them in, if you put players in a position to fail, then they will fail.  Every team should endeavor to put their players in the best position to succeed that they can, and not doing so is incompetent coaching.  That's our biggest problem here.

 

I think it's very unfortunate for Forbes that he seems to have become the sole scapegoat for the failures of the defense when none of the safeties and corners played well over the first five games.  I think it's damning that Jack Del Rio called games that continuously put him in single coverage on elite WRs with no safety help when the whole ****ing point of drafting Forbes was that he is a special ball hawk who turns it over from zone coverage.  I think it's damning for Del Rio that he's sold the pass defense out to stop the run against the Bears and Eagles and still couldn't do it, nor could he adjust when it became clear his plan was losing us the game through the air. To me these are the back breaking issues with the defense that have to be fixed before we can get the most out of our draft picks like Forbes.

[Skinsinparadise]

Banks was the dude I wanted who I thought would be in the range of our pick.  He was my #3 corner after Witherspoon and Gonzalez.

 

I liked Porter but not as much as I should have, he's been great.  Though the other CB I loved who also was on my guys list DJ Turner has been very good.

 

lol, though I said I'd have a stroke if they didn't take Gonzalez when he was dropping in that draft thread on draft day -- I was OK with Forbes even though he wasn't one of my favs in that draft because at the time I was willing to give this FO the benefit of the doubt on a player from the secondary.  If they have a wheel house, the secondary would be it.

 

I'll give Forbes that his sample size is small.  He deserves a bigger run.  The defense sucks anyway so let him play through this.  His hands have been dissappointing so far.  He's had his share of balls (again in a small sample size) go through his hands including the hail Mary versus Denver although I'll give him he was leaping up so it wasn't easy.  One killer good pick but otherwise I saw several potential picks missed.

 

But again some players take longer to emerge, especially at corner.  The season is going nowhere.  Granted Ron doesn't see it that way,  But if it were me, I'd play Forbes.  I am not in the camp he's already a bust.  I admit though I have some more doubts about him now then i did earlier.  Him being a bust is on the table.  But he deserves more time IMO.   And one criticism that me, @KDawg, @Koolblue13, @DWinzit made in real time on the draft thread on draft day was if there were a draft where you didn't have to go corner early let alone your first two picks -- it was this draft. 

 

It was really deep at that spot.  So when you got guys like DJ Turner who are killing it and were late 2nd round picks, it makes these picks more damning at this given time.

 

I said all summer that this draft-off season will likely earn Ron a well deserved pink slip considering how little he did for the O line and how little these guys seemed poisted to help this season.  Now that we are half way through the season.  I'll double down on that same point -- its playing out that way and an even bigger way than I thought it would.  This off season right now looks like a disaster on sterioids.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

First two rounds were heavily weighted with OL and TE, the rest of the draft was heavy with LBer, DB and TE. Poor roster management.

[bird_1972]

Makes me angry thinking about how Ron and our FO basically wasted an entire year. The franchise needs a total reset in the offseason. Clean house.

[philibusters]

I kind of agree with GoingCommando that a lot of Forbes struggles have been the situation he was placed in.  Banks is doing well, but I would bet when they leave him in man coverage against the other teams number 1 receiver they are usually bringing pressure.   Forbes was left in man coverage on AJ Brown and DJ Moore a lot where we only brought four.  That is a lot to ask for any corner.  And granted Forbes performed worse than you would like even in a tough situation, but when we heard about guys like Banks or Gonzalez doing well, my instinct is they probably have not  been put in the same situations as Forbes.

[Going Commando]

That tweet about Banks being better than Spoon in a bunch of stats is a nice case demonstrating how stats can be used to tell lies.  Anyone who has watched Banks get his ass beat this year and also watched Spoon individually dominate games can readily see that Banks hasn't even been on the same planet as Spoon.  Spoon is already the best player on a good defense and one of the best corners in the league, and if he continues playing the way he has so far, then he's going to make an All Pro team.