2024 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

3 minutes ago, TheGoodBits said:

As much as the allure of drafting a top 5 QB is interesting, I don't think it's what will pay off most of the team longterm. A multiyear rebuild after a painful multiyear deconstruction of the roster is what will pay off the most. We're going to get worse before we get better.

Can someone point me to a franchise that sucked for 3+ seasons, allowed the GM/HC/QB to see it through, and then eventually got good? 
 

Long rebuilds don’t happen in the NFL. Execs/coaches usually get 2 years to show signs of progress. 

[The Consigliere]

15 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Agree. The irony is that a lot of people that are saying we have to go QB (despite not knowing where we pick), are the same that say we need to trust the new GM.

 

What if they believe the best path forward is NOT going QB? Will they still support?

 

I don’t know that there is a wrong move, either way. The roster is in shambles.  It will take time. 
 

But I think there is reason to be optimistic. Just not in a way where we should throw caution to the wind.

I'm not a "trust the GM" guy. Too many GM's blow ---. I trust no one without the credentials and even then, quite often, good credentialed guys get cute and do stupid things.

 

Going QB makes sense, but we may not be in the zone to get one, and I think after the first 2, Im pretty nervous. I don't like the value/chances so far. But enough research after the season should give a reasonable eval of Daniels. I'm just not as impressed w/him as I've been w/other guys, many of whom have busted, since '17, hell, I liked RGIII's profile a helluvalot more at the time but I also knew less about the peripheral analytics deep stat stuff at the time, and I had no idea that his mental make up grade was a legit problem. We need to know if they can make the throws, if they can process info quickly if they're mental make up grade is good and the corresponding first in/last out mentality is in play. Then, I'll consider Daniels, and trading up from round 2 for the last of them if they fall.

 

For me, you go after a QB if you can, but what about trading up? New England might, Bill is that crazy, and he sucks at drafting other than blatantly obvious situations (Gonzalez, Mac Jones), Chicago might but almost certainly wont because of Fields, and Arizona has the weird Kyler situation. So for me, I'd probably trade up or down, but we'll see. '25 class looks worse, so probably no help coming from that too. 

4 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Can someone point me to a franchise that sucked for 3+ seasons, allowed the GM/HC/QB to see it through, and then eventually got good? 
 

Long rebuilds don’t happen in the NFL. Execs/coaches usually get 2 years to show signs of progress. 

Secondly, you have to solve the QB problem on an --- team or eventually you get canned. Sometimes you get lucky, Andy was stuck with Alex Smith and bad QB classes with the Chiefs until Mahomes suddenly came into view and boom. There are a few other cases like that, but honestly, you do have to solve QB or you're gonna be canned. Even if you solve it, you still could be canned (see SD), but when you look around the league, the teams with coaches on the hot seat are nearly always the teams that havent solved that problem. 

 

And yep, you're right, the new admin is going to be at risk of getting s canned after the '25 season because the roster is so thoroughly barren, and the best talent is almost uniformally old (the DL, McLaurin) that this team will likely be absolutely putrid in '24 and '25 too barring a fantastic '24 and '25 pair of offseasons. 

[Koolblue13]

31 minutes ago, TheGoodBits said:

As much as the allure of drafting a top 5 QB is interesting, I don't think it's what will pay off most of the team longterm. A multiyear rebuild after a painful multiyear deconstruction of the roster is what will pay off the most. We're going to get worse before we get better.

The roster is deconstructed and we're drafting at 4. We have a bunch of great picks and a truck load of cap space and everyone is getting fired. 

 

Not sure we can deconstruct any more than Ron has already done for us.

 

It's build time and these things happen fast or not at all. Bad year (this year), mediocre year with upside(next year), SB run or close to it.

 

This is where we are at right now.

[TheGoodBits]

47 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

The roster is deconstructed and we're drafting at 4. We have a bunch of great picks and a truck load of cap space and everyone is getting fired. 

 

Not sure we can deconstruct any more than Ron has already done for us.

 

It's build time and these things happen fast or not at all. Bad year (this year), mediocre year with upside(next year), SB run or close to it.

 

This is where we are at right now.

Try to get that top 2-4 pick this year and trade back with an emphasis on future picks. Trade Terry and Allen, intentionally hold off on signing any meaningful FAs this offseason, roll with Sam again next season. We are (thankfully) in year 1 of a needed 2 year nosedive, followed by a 2-3 year rebuild after that. Anytime after this offseason that you have a great opportunity to do so, you can go get your QB. But I want us picking number 1 next year. 

Edited December 19, 2023 by TheGoodBits

[kingdaddy]

2 hours ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Can someone point me to a franchise that sucked for 3+ seasons, allowed the GM/HC/QB to see it through, and then eventually got good? 
 

Long rebuilds don’t happen in the NFL. Execs/coaches usually get 2 years to show signs of progress. 

I can point you to the Bills, they sucked for awhile before Sean McDermott and Josh Allen turned them around. Same thing can happen in Washington but it's gonna take rebuilding the offensive line and the back half of the defense. Look at what's going on in Houston too, they are turning things around with a new head coach and rookie QB paired with a bunch of no-names like Nico Collins, Noah Brown, Singletary and others. The Texans made some good free agent signings, got a coach from a winning organization and picked the right QB in the draft, combined it with a pretty weak schedule in a weak division and theyre in the playoff hunt. I believe our roster is as good or better than the Texans but our coaching staff is not even close. The NFL wants parity so it shouldn't be too difficult to get back into the mix quickly given the right decisions from ownership. Sounds easy huh? 

I agree with your points, the turnaround needs to happen quicker than 3-5 years. 

[e16bball]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

roster is deconstructed and we're drafting at 4. We have a bunch of great picks and a truck load of cap space and everyone is getting fired. 

 

Not sure we can deconstruct any more than Ron has already done for us.

 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

26 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

I can point you to the Bills, they sucked for awhile before Sean McDermott and Josh Allen turned them around. Same thing can happen in Washington but it's gonna take rebuilding the offensive line and the back half of the defense. Look at what's going on in Houston too, they are turning things around with a new head coach and rookie QB paired with a bunch of no-names like Nico Collins, Noah Brown, Singletary and others. The Texans made some good free agent signings, got a coach from a winning organization and picked the right QB in the draft, combined it with a pretty weak schedule in a weak division and theyre in the playoff hunt. I believe our roster is as good or better than the Texans but our coaching staff is not even close. The NFL wants parity so it shouldn't be too difficult to get back into the mix quickly given the right decisions from ownership. Sounds easy huh? 

I agree with your points, the turnaround needs to happen quicker than 3-5 years. 

That’s my point. It’s not about the team. It’s the people involved. Every time you start changing any combination of HC/GM/QB, it starts a new cycle in my mind that is separate from whoever came before. 

[mac8887]

1 hour ago, TheGoodBits said:

Try to get that top 2-4 pick this year and trade back with an emphasis on future picks. Trade Terry and Allen, intentionally hold off on signing any meaningful FAs this offseason, roll with Sam again next season. We are (thankfully) in year 1 of a needed 2 year nosedive, followed by a 2-3 year rebuild after that. Anytime after this offseason that you have a great opportunity to do so, you can go get your QB. But I want us picking number 1 next year. 

You must really think Sam stinks, it would take a lot of bad luck and good luck for Sam to get us to a #1 overall pick

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

1 hour ago, TheGoodBits said:

Try to get that top 2-4 pick this year and trade back with an emphasis on future picks. Trade Terry and Allen, intentionally hold off on signing any meaningful FAs this offseason, roll with Sam again next season. We are (thankfully) in year 1 of a needed 2 year nosedive, followed by a 2-3 year rebuild after that. Anytime after this offseason that you have a great opportunity to do so, you can go get your QB. But I want us picking number 1 next year. 

The GM will be fired halfway through your plan. This doesn’t work in the NFL 

[mac8887]

2 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

The GM will be fired halfway through your plan. This doesn’t work in the NFL 

This would be the process nfl style. I dont think the other owners would be ok with a season or 2 long tank job

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

3 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

This would be the process nfl style. I dont think the other owners would be ok with a season or 2 long tank job

The rosters turn over too much in this league to do this. For example, almost the entire draft class from ‘24 would be gone or on 2nd contracts by the time the team would be “ready” in his scenario 

[mac8887]

12 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

The rosters turn over too much in this league to do this. For example, almost the entire draft class from ‘24 would be gone or on 2nd contracts by the time the team would be “ready” in his scenario 

I agree, there are to many variables in the NFL. The only reason it's possible in the NBA is because there is nowhere near the amount of people entering each year and the fewer amount of rounds in the draft

Edited December 19, 2023 by mac8887

[profusion]

5 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

I agree, there are to many variables in the NFL. The only reason it's possible in the NBA is because there is nowhere near the amount of people entering each year and the fewer amount of rounds in the draft

. 

Getting the super-duper-star is literally the ONLY way to win an NBA championship--heck it seems like you need more than one, now. Plus, there are never more than about 4-5 of those in the NBA at any given time, seemingly. It makes it very hard to care about the NBA unless you happen to be a fan of one of those teams.

 

Star QBs rule the NFL, but not to the same degree.

[mac8887]

22 minutes ago, profusion said:

. 

Getting the super-duper-star is literally the ONLY way to win an NBA championship--heck it seems like you need more than one, now. Plus, there are never more than about 4-5 of those in the NBA at any given time, seemingly. It makes it very hard to care about the NBA unless you happen to be a fan of one of those teams.

 

Star QBs rule the NFL, but not to the same degree.

Yeah. The NBA is definitely more individual centric over team centric nowadays. 

Edited December 19, 2023 by mac8887

[Chump Bailey]

If we do not come away in the draft with a very much improved OL, I'd be stunned and it would be criminal dereliction of duty by whomever the GM/shot-caller is. 

 

Another underrated OT IMHO:

 

Dominick Puni Kansas impressive agility for someone that massive

 

[skinsfan66]

3 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

I'm not a "trust the GM" guy. Too many GM's blow ---. I trust no one without the credentials and even then, quite often, good credentialed guys get cute and do stupid things.

 

Going QB makes sense, but we may not be in the zone to get one, and I think after the first 2, Im pretty nervous. I don't like the value/chances so far. But enough research after the season should give a reasonable eval of Daniels. I'm just not as impressed w/him as I've been w/other guys, many of whom have busted, since '17, hell, I liked RGIII's profile a helluvalot more at the time but I also knew less about the peripheral analytics deep stat stuff at the time, and I had no idea that his mental make up grade was a legit problem. We need to know if they can make the throws, if they can process info quickly if they're mental make up grade is good and the corresponding first in/last out mentality is in play. Then, I'll consider Daniels, and trading up from round 2 for the last of them if they fall.

 

For me, you go after a QB if you can, but what about trading up? New England might, Bill is that crazy, and he sucks at drafting other than blatantly obvious situations (Gonzalez, Mac Jones), Chicago might but almost certainly wont because of Fields, and Arizona has the weird Kyler situation. So for me, I'd probably trade up or down, but we'll see. '25 class looks worse, so probably no help coming from that too. 

Secondly, you have to solve the QB problem on an --- team or eventually you get canned. Sometimes you get lucky, Andy was stuck with Alex Smith and bad QB classes with the Chiefs until Mahomes suddenly came into view and boom. There are a few other cases like that, but honestly, you do have to solve QB or you're gonna be canned. Even if you solve it, you still could be canned (see SD), but when you look around the league, the teams with coaches on the hot seat are nearly always the teams that havent solved that problem. 

 

And yep, you're right, the new admin is going to be at risk of getting s canned after the '25 season because the roster is so thoroughly barren, and the best talent is almost uniformally old (the DL, McLaurin) that this team will likely be absolutely putrid in '24 and '25 too barring a fantastic '24 and '25 pair of offseasons. 

Young just got his Coach fired after being on the hot seat all year. Make the wrong choice of the top 2 QB's or 3 and your on the hot seat too.

[skinsfan66]

52 minutes ago, profusion said:

. 

Getting the super-duper-star is literally the ONLY way to win an NBA championship--heck it seems like you need more than one, now. Plus, there are never more than about 4-5 of those in the NBA at any given time, seemingly. It makes it very hard to care about the NBA unless you happen to be a fan of one of those teams.

 

Star QBs rule the NFL, but not to the same degree.

 QB's do not have to be drafted top 3 to be a Star also unlike the NBA it seems, Mahomes. Brady, Montana the list goes on. 

[Chump Bailey]

More potential sleeper names I keep seeing:

 

Kimani Vidal RB Troy - not looked at yet

Javon Baker WR UCF - hard to find film for

Tahj Brooks RB Texas Tech - agree completely

Bryce Houston ILB Ohio - need to watch again I guess

Luke McCaffrey WR Rice - agree completely

Dominick Puni OL Kanasa - agree completely

Elijah Roberts EDGE SMU - have to check 

Ricky Pearsall WR Florida - agree completely likely mid rounder at worst

[illone]

I dont think this rebuild has to take 2+ years.

 

Houston had arguably a worse roster coming into the offseason and turned things around quickly with coaching and QB. Hell they could still win the division in YEAR ONE of their rebuild.

 

It definitely feels like the cupboard is bare in Washington right now, but I firmly believe that if the new ownership group nails the GM and Head Coach hires then we could be looking at a competitive team next season.

 

On the topic of Howell, I am a fan of the kid, but I think any discerning NFL GM would absolutely consider QB with the top 5 pick in the upcoming draft, especially with how things have gone the past month or so. Howell just looks lost on most plays and doesnt anticipate throws. Not to say he cant get there, but it definitely seems like he needs a more balanced system around him plus you get to reset the contract and give your team a longer runway with the salary cap, 4 years vs 2 years w Howell.  

 

I'm completely open to the possibilities at this point. Love Howell but I love the franchise more and ultimately I have a very hard time trusting being saddled with roster decisions made by Rivera. It's time to move forward and embrace the modern NFL.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I posted a longer version of this on the QB thread

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/draft2024/insider/story/_/id/39136559/2024-nfl-draft-quarterback-class-williams-maye-daniels-mccarthy

Which quarterback has the most impressive trait?

Scouts had a lot of different answers here. Williams' field vision. Maye's second-effort mobility. McCarthy's efficiency. But it was Daniels' deep ball that was mentioned the most.

"The dude's touch down the field is really special," said an NFC area scout.

Daniels -- who officially declared for the draft on Monday -- first showed off his deep accuracy during his freshman year at Arizona State, and it has developed very well over the course of his college career. In 2023, Daniels threw 20 touchdown passes -- and zero interceptions -- on passes over 20 air yards. That's six more than anyone else, and 11 of them were aired out 30-plus yards downfield.

 

"A lot of these [QBs] have special traits, but his deep ball should be glorified," said another NFC scout who covers the SEC.

 

Daniels' ability to layer the ball over the top of defenders and how well he leads LSU's wide receivers -- including top prospects Malik Nabers and Brian Thomas Jr. -- into space is truly elite. His 99.6 QBR throwing to vertical routes led the nation this season.

---

Who is the biggest QB riser in the class so far?

It's Daniels again. In fact, no player, regardless of position, has risen more on my board this season than the 2023 Heisman Trophy winner. He's now No. 8 overall for me.

Over the summer, Daniels was receiving Day 3 grades from National Scouting Report and BLESTO Scouting Services, which NFL teams staff for early scouting assessments. One of those area scouts involved said in a text, "Daniels was a fun Day 3-type guy who had some nice traits but hadn't put it all together. Well, he put it together this year."

An LSU staffer told me that Daniels was the hardest worker during the team's summer practices and workouts, dedicated to not only adding strength to his lean 6-foot-4 frame but also improving his play from within the pocket. Coaches emphasized keeping his eyes up and down the field. It paid off, with Daniels throwing for 40 touchdown passes and four interceptions while completing 72.2% of his passes.

The class's QB3 was something of a debate all season, with Ewers, McCarthy and Sanders all getting some consideration there. But for now, Daniels is secure as my third-ranked quarterback. He continued to improve each week, and it doesn't hurt that he was the best QB in college football while battling it out in the competitive SEC.

"It's not crazy to think there are teams that will have Daniels as QB2," said an NFC general manager. "If you are building a team where the quarterback being mobile is a priority, Daniels could easily be your pick over Maye."

I spoke to another NFL exec late last week about the quarterbacks, and after 45 minutes of tossing around names, he said, "I think you like Daniels more than you realize!" His game fits well with the NFL, and yes, there is a path to him rising to QB2.

[RWJ]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I posted a longer version of this on the QB thread

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/draft2024/insider/story/_/id/39136559/2024-nfl-draft-quarterback-class-williams-maye-daniels-mccarthy

Which quarterback has the most impressive trait?

Scouts had a lot of different answers here. Williams' field vision. Maye's second-effort mobility. McCarthy's efficiency. But it was Daniels' deep ball that was mentioned the most.

"The dude's touch down the field is really special," said an NFC area scout.

Daniels -- who officially declared for the draft on Monday -- first showed off his deep accuracy during his freshman year at Arizona State, and it has developed very well over the course of his college career. In 2023, Daniels threw 20 touchdown passes -- and zero interceptions -- on passes over 20 air yards. That's six more than anyone else, and 11 of them were aired out 30-plus yards downfield.

 

"A lot of these [QBs] have special traits, but his deep ball should be glorified," said another NFC scout who covers the SEC.

 

Daniels' ability to layer the ball over the top of defenders and how well he leads LSU's wide receivers -- including top prospects Malik Nabers and Brian Thomas Jr. -- into space is truly elite. His 99.6 QBR throwing to vertical routes led the nation this season.

---

Who is the biggest QB riser in the class so far?

It's Daniels again. In fact, no player, regardless of position, has risen more on my board this season than the 2023 Heisman Trophy winner. He's now No. 8 overall for me.

Over the summer, Daniels was receiving Day 3 grades from National Scouting Report and BLESTO Scouting Services, which NFL teams staff for early scouting assessments. One of those area scouts involved said in a text, "Daniels was a fun Day 3-type guy who had some nice traits but hadn't put it all together. Well, he put it together this year."

An LSU staffer told me that Daniels was the hardest worker during the team's summer practices and workouts, dedicated to not only adding strength to his lean 6-foot-4 frame but also improving his play from within the pocket. Coaches emphasized keeping his eyes up and down the field. It paid off, with Daniels throwing for 40 touchdown passes and four interceptions while completing 72.2% of his passes.

The class's QB3 was something of a debate all season, with Ewers, McCarthy and Sanders all getting some consideration there. But for now, Daniels is secure as my third-ranked quarterback. He continued to improve each week, and it doesn't hurt that he was the best QB in college football while battling it out in the competitive SEC.

"It's not crazy to think there are teams that will have Daniels as QB2," said an NFC general manager. "If you are building a team where the quarterback being mobile is a priority, Daniels could easily be your pick over Maye."

I spoke to another NFL exec late last week about the quarterbacks, and after 45 minutes of tossing around names, he said, "I think you like Daniels more than you realize!" His game fits well with the NFL, and yes, there is a path to him rising to QB2.

#what pick we have in the 1st for me!  😁

[KDawg]

My biggest Daniels fear is that he is so slight in frame. He’s not small, persay. But slight.

 

Gives me major Griffin flashbacks. 
 

And we just had an up close and personal look at a slight framed player not transitioning well…

 

Different positions, different styles… so it’s at least partially able to be passed off as not a big deal… but still.

[FrFan]

15 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

Not sure we can deconstruct any more than Ron has already done for us.

 

 

[Rex Tomb]

I’m wary of a guy, in Daniel’s, that performed at an elite level for only one season.  Yes he was a four year starter, but to be considered a day 3 pick going into the season and then winning the Heisman is a red flag for me.  

[DWinzit]

46 minutes ago, Rex Tomb said:

I’m wary of a guy, in Daniel’s, that performed at an elite level for only one season.  Yes he was a four year starter, but to be considered a day 3 pick going into the season and then winning the Heisman is a red flag for me.  

Red flag is understandable.

He was ultra elite in high school, even better than last years showing.

In fairness his two years at ASU were COVID years so they are pretty tough to use for evaluation. 

And it is great to read the accolades for how hard he worked to improve at LSU. Gotta love self motivators 

Edited December 20, 2023 by DWinzit