2024 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

I listened to this segment. Jay likes Sam.  But he's watched enough of Drake, Caleb and Daniels and said he'd take one of them if he could in Washington's shoes. 

 

 

 

[RWJ]

34 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I listened to this segment. Jay likes Sam.  But he's watched enough of Drake, Caleb and Daniels and said he'd take one of them if he could in Washington's shoes. 

 

 

 

We will!  

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Part of me thinks Drake Maye is Howell +4 inches. Watched 2 games and he would also get annihilated by sacks. Felt like they were competing with each other this season for most sacked QB.

 

I really wish we had All22 film of these QB's, too much I can't tell from the TV angles. Such as if he's throwing with anticipation and in rhythm or not.

 

His lone good WR, Devontez Walker just declared for the draft. Recent transfer from Kent State, put up good per game numbers. Good height and good speed, but not the most reliable hands? Need to watch more of him. Especially since our 1st rounder is looking like a lock for QB so improving weapons will need to be Day 2.

[Chump Bailey]

23 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

His lone good WR, Devontez Walker just declared for the draft. Recent transfer from Kent State, put up good per game numbers. Good height and good speed, but not the most reliable hands? Need to watch more of him

 

Tez Walker IMO could be a riser. 

 

Ditto with these dudes among others but these guys move well IMO:

J. Michael Sturdivant UCLA

Ricky White III UNLV

Jermaine Burton Alabama

 

Ricky Pearsall Florida is also generating buzz. 

 

Jalen McMillan Washington is one WR that IMO is very underrated.

 

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

Part of me thinks Drake Maye is Howell +4 inches. Watched 2 games and he would also get annihilated by sacks. Felt like they were competing with each other this season for most sacked QB.

 

I really wish we had All22 film of these QB's, too much I can't tell from the TV angles. Such as if he's throwing with anticipation and in rhythm or not.

 

His lone good WR, Devontez Walker just declared for the draft. Recent transfer from Kent State, put up good per game numbers. Good height and good speed, but not the most reliable hands? Need to watch more of him. Especially since our 1st rounder is looking like a lock for QB so improving weapons will need to be Day 2.

Same thoughts I’ve had… yet oddly I still like him more than Williams and he’s safer than Daniels.

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Same thoughts I’ve had… yet oddly I still like him more than Williams and he’s safer than Daniels.

How does Daniels compare to Stroud? 

[NoVaSkins21]

Shout out to the OP for the thread title change btw

[El Mexican]

Please please just cut the crap and draft Fashanu. He's a game changer.

 

That guy WILL change for the better our entire O-line.

[method man]

32 minutes ago, El Mexican said:

Please please just cut the crap and draft Fashanu. He's a game changer.

 

That guy WILL change for the better our entire O-line.

If he were at least an above average run blocker, I might be with you but he is not even average for NFL standards in that arena. Why spend a top 6 pick on that? Early teens sure but there is better value to be had with that pick

[Panninho]

14 hours ago, Going Commando said:

I'm going to be honest: I'm at peace with missing out on the top QBs because I don't actually have any hope for this team.  I believe that franchise QBs are made rather than found, and I don't believe that this organization has made the structural improvements required to develop one of these kids into a franchise QB.  Maybe they'll get there eventually, but I have zero reason to believe that it will happen in the time frame that Drake Maye or Jayden Daniels would need to be successful here.  This franchise is contemptible and utterly incompetent and uncompetitive.  We're third rate in every sense.  I don't enjoy seeing promising young careers come here to die, and I don't think we deserve to get the opportunity to ruin any more young quarterbacks.

 

I also don't have the kind of faith in this new ownership group that everyone else seems to.  I think they can be better and more competent (or at least respectable) than the Snyder regime was, and still be a world away from being legitimately good.  And I think that's the case.

 

So I don't really care what happens to the team at QB.  I am fine picking Malik Nabers or Jared Verse because I want someone fun and good to root for on Sundays before I go and watch the real NFL football get contested by other teams.

 

I honestly do not really get any of these points here. Yes, player development is obviously a very crucial part of having a franchise QB but it's not like the Bengals were an NFL powerhouse before drafting Burrow, the Dolphins were horrible before Tua, the Texans sucked before they brought in Watson, the Jaguars were horrible before they brought in Lawrence (who you say is one of the superstars of the league now), the Bills didn't have a great QB before they brought in Allen. So how are these franchises systematically different from ours pre-QB? I think the biggest problem is that we had horrible front office people and horrible coaches because no one self-respecting person wanted to work for Snyder. RG3 looked great under Shannahan, Cousins looked good under McVay before they left. We had some decent seasons when we had decent coaches.

 

Why would our trajectory when it comes to the position still be the same now that we actually are trending upwards and very likely do not have to take a coach that didn't get a shot elsewhere to stear this franchise. We'll get a complete revamp of the front office and coaching staff and we will have an ownership group that 100% does not meddle in the draft and day-to-day business the way Snyder did it. Why can we not be the 2020 Bengals after drafting a QB talent? They also sucked and then came Burrow and they did not start with a complete overhaul on every level including ownership. They brought in a new coach and drafted a QB and it worked for them. And if everything is so bad and hopeless here that we have absolutely no shot at developing any QB talent post Snyder, why would anyone feel good about drafting any other position? What would be the way for us to build a competitive team? Why would people feel good about developing other talent? Yeah, the odds are stacked against you when it comes to drafting QBs but that is true for everyone who drafts a QB.

 

I agree that it's going to take longer than one offseason to clear this franchise of all the Snyder mess but I cannot understand how people are this (!) negative about the team now that we have finally solved the biggest problem this franchise has had. I also wanted Bezos over Harris to be honest but I do not understand how anyone can have an educated opinion on this ownership group in any way at this point in time. What have they done so far that would sway your opinion in any way? For me, I think it is positive that they did not fire Rivera and make any snapshot decisions but take this time to analyze and then start fresh this offseason. Let's assume we lose out, the Patriots and Cardinals win another game and we draft Maye or Williams with e.g. Ben Johnson as HC and a respectable GM who invests in free agency to bolster the roster in the right spots? I simply cannot bring myself to a point where I would not be hyped about this franchise going forward (even if it's more likely that it will not succeed).

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

10 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

Part of me thinks Drake Maye is Howell +4 inches. Watched 2 games and he would also get annihilated by sacks. Felt like they were competing with each other this season for most sacked QB.

 

I really wish we had All22 film of these QB's, too much I can't tell from the TV angles. Such as if he's throwing with anticipation and in rhythm or not.

 

His lone good WR, Devontez Walker just declared for the draft. Recent transfer from Kent State, put up good per game numbers. Good height and good speed, but not the most reliable hands? Need to watch more of him. Especially since our 1st rounder is looking like a lock for QB so improving weapons will need to be Day 2.

 

He was better IMO the previoius year when he had Downs.   Taller, faster, maybe lightly stronger arm.  But that's still a big deal IMO.  If Howell was 6 '4 instead of 6 and change I think the narrative would be different. 

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, Panninho said:

 

I honestly do not really get any of these points here. Yes, player development is obviously a very crucial part of having a franchise QB but it's not like the Bengals were an NFL powerhouse before drafting Burrow, the Dolphins were horrible before Tua, the Texans sucked before they brought in Watson, the Jaguars were horrible before they brought in Lawrence (who you say is one of the superstars of the league now), the Bills didn't have a great QB before they brought in Allen. So how are these franchises systematically different from ours pre-QB? I think the biggest problem is that we had horrible front office people and horrible coaches because no one self-respecting person wanted to work for Snyder. RG3 looked great under Shannahan, Cousins looked good under McVay before they left. We had some decent seasons when we had decent coaches.

 

Why would our trajectory when it comes to the position still be the same now that we actually are trending upwards and very likely do not have to take a coach that didn't get a shot elsewhere to stear this franchise. We'll get a complete revamp of the front office and coaching staff and we will have an ownership group that 100% does not meddle in the draft and day-to-day business the way Snyder did it. Why can we not be the 2020 Bengals after drafting a QB talent? They also sucked and then came Burrow and they did not start with a complete overhaul on every level including ownership. They brought in a new coach and drafted a QB and it worked for them. And if everything is so bad and hopeless here that we have absolutely no shot at developing any QB talent post Snyder, why would anyone feel good about drafting any other position? What would be the way for us to build a competitive team? Why would people feel good about developing other talent? Yeah, the odds are stacked against you when it comes to drafting QBs but that is true for everyone who drafts a QB.

 

I agree that it's going to take longer than one offseason to clear this franchise of all the Snyder mess but I cannot understand how people are this (!) negative about the team now that we have finally solved the biggest problem this franchise has had. I also wanted Bezos over Harris to be honest but I do not understand how anyone can have an educated opinion on this ownership group in any way at this point in time. What have they done so far that would sway your opinion in any way? For me, I think it is positive that they did not fire Rivera and make any snapshot decisions but take this time to analyze and then start fresh this offseason. Let's assume we lose out, the Patriots and Cardinals win another game and we draft Maye or Williams with e.g. Ben Johnson as HC and a respectable GM who invests in free agency to bolster the roster in the right spots? I simply cannot bring myself to a point where I would not be hyped about this franchise going forward (even if it's more likely that it will not succeed).

 

 

 

Not to answer for him, but we don't know if we're trending upwards yet. It's a logical assumption we will... but we don't know that.

 

Also, it's about timing as much as it is about talent. If we get the QB now, are we going to waste years on his contract getting the pieces around him vs. Getting the pieces (I'm not talking about an immaculate roster... just a baseline NFL roster) and see incremental improvements and then go get the QB? 

 

Of course, there are challenges to doing it that way... one of which is improving enough to move your draft position out of the top 5-10 picks and hoping someone solid falls without you reaching. 

 

A lot of us are more wait and see than negative. I know that's my approach. 

 

And I don't agree that we'd "ruin" a new QB developmentally, necessarily, especially considering we don't know who will call the shots.

 

So for me... it's wait and see. 

[philibusters]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He was better IMO the previoius year when he had Downs.   Taller, faster, maybe lightly stronger arm.  But that's still a big deal IMO.  If Howell was 6 '4 instead of 6 and change I think the narrative would be different. 

 

If Howell was 6'4 he would see the middle of the field easier, probably process that area of the field slightly faster, and probably would have been a 1st round pick.  I agree 4 inches makes a significant difference.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, Panninho said:

 

I honestly do not really get any of these points here. Yes, player development is obviously a very crucial part of having a franchise QB but it's not like the Bengals were an NFL powerhouse before drafting Burrow, the Dolphins were horrible before Tua, the Texans sucked before they brought in Watson, the Jaguars were horrible before they brought in Lawrence (who you say is one of the superstars of the league now), the Bills didn't have a great QB before they brought in Allen. So how are these franchises systematically different from ours pre-QB? I think the biggest problem is that we had horrible front office people and horrible coaches because no one self-respecting person wanted to work for Snyder. RG3 looked great under Shannahan, Cousins looked good under McVay before they left. We had some decent seasons when we had decent coaches.

 

 

Yep, exactly.

 

What team was considered arguably as the next most dysfunctional organization aside from us?  Cincy.  They add Burrow and draft well around them and their fortunes change.

 

Bills as you mentioned stuck for years going nowhere, they add Allen, bam.

 

Being in Florida I follow the Dolphins, my closest friend who follows football is a Dolphins fan and we joke about how that team's fortunes have mirroed ours to a tee.  Pre Tua-McDaniels, etc they had an era with 2 playoff appeaaces in 20 years.

 

Then whole this is a bad organization and not to expect major change with a new owner, new GM, new HC is silly to me on a scale 10 out of 10.  

 

If I told my friend we will never be the Dolphins for example we will never ben the Dolphins, he'd laugh hysterically considering for like 20 years we joked that we root for the same teams basically as to their records and how they operate. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, philibusters said:

 

If Howell was 6'4 he would see the middle of the field easier, probably process that area of the field slightly faster, and probably would have been a 1st round pick.  I agree 4 inches makes a significant difference.

 

Greg Cosell who is far from a Howell hater went why did he go in the 5th round asking around people he knew around the league.  Howell's height was a big part of it.  The type of QBs who succeed at that height are typically uber athletes like Russell Wilson.  Howell isn't seen the same way.  Not too many dudes at his height have killed it in the NFL.  Brees being one of them but its not some long list.

 

When I keep hearing teams cluttering Howell's line of sight up the middle as a strategy to beat him and even Keim who probably is more in the tank for him than any reporter I can think of talks about THEY (the FO) talks about they know they need to factor Howell's height when dealing with the O line and the oppostion.  It's a real factor.  He leads the league in battered balls. So yeah you give Howell 4 inches I think it changes a lot for the dude let alone a bit more speed. 

 

I think Howell can be a good QB.  But I am skeptical about great.  I know some now are skeptical about him being good.  But i think he can be, I am not 100% sold on Drake Maye but he has the tools to be great.  Whether that happens or not, I don't know.

Edited December 19, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Darrell Green Fan]

I could not find the post to quote it but I disagree that every franchise QB is made and not found.  If SF "made" Brock Purdy then why didn't they make Trey Lance after investing so much into him?  Now clearly the environment is huge, I think we all agree Purdy would not be having such success in Washington.  But CJ Stroud is playing well not only because of his coaching, he surely did not go to a good situation.  He is playing well because some guys that are drafted are actual franchise QBs while most will never be franchise QBs.  The trick to identify the right one which is nearly impossible.  

Edited December 19, 2023 by Darrell Green Fan

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

Not to answer for him, but we don't know if we're trending upwards yet. It's a logical assumption we will... but we don't know that.

 

Also, it's about timing as much as it is about talent. If we get the QB now, are we going to waste years on his contract getting the pieces around him vs. Getting the pieces (I'm not talking about an immaculate roster... just a baseline NFL roster) and see incremental improvements and then go get the QB? 

 

Of course, there are challenges to doing it that way... one of which is improving enough to move your draft position out of the top 5-10 picks and hoping someone solid falls without you reaching. 

 

A lot of us are more wait and see than negative. I know that's my approach. 

 

And I don't agree that we'd "ruin" a new QB developmentally, necessarily, especially considering we don't know who will call the shots.

 

So for me... it's wait and see. 

 

If the previous regime was running this FO I'd have the same concerns.  But the off season as we know isn't all about that first round pick.  We got 4 other picks in the top 100.  In the end probably 100 million in cap room and yes there are good options IMO to upgrade the interior O line in FA.  Tackle usually sucks in FA, this year, too.  Interior is fine if we don't shop in the junk aisle like we typically do.

 

I agree there are no guarantees of course with the new regime.  But I have no doubt that they won't give a half ass at best effort to build around a new QB with all those picks and cap room.   It wasn't just that Rivera failed at doing it but his half ass effort was evident to me and you @Koolblue13, @DWinzit among others in real time as it was happening.

 

It was stunning Ron's lack of effort to do it.  The odds that anyone else duplicating that is almost zero IMO.  You mentioned in another thread what if they hire another Bruce Allen type or something like that.  The reason why I believe there is no chance of that is Harris has owned other teams.  His reputation is to simply find the dude that's the most coveted in personnel and get that guy.  That doesn't guarantee success indeed.   But it increases the odds to be successful versus hiring a dude who was a punchline in Tampa and unemployed at the time.

 

The odds are at a minimum good that whomever he hires does have basic common sense where they'd draft a QB that they'd use their resources to build around that QB.  If they didn't, they'd be hiring some dolt to take over and I don't expect that.

 

I get @Going Commando cynicism to some extent.  He might be the only dude here unless i am forgetting one who doesn't care for Josh Harris.  But outside of that, I think Harris would have to hire someone even lower than Bruce to both inherit all this draft capital and cap room -- draft a QB and not try to surround them with more talent.  They'd have to be dumb business people too considering the last thing you want to bring fans back to the stands is to draft a QB and watch them fail. 

 

I get your point that they might understand this and still run a poor draft and sign the wrong guys in FA.   Maybe.  But at minimum I think the odds are almost 100% if they draft a QB they'd have the common sense where they wouldn't have to read this thread to get that hey lets help our shiny new toy actually work.   

Edited December 19, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If the previous regime was running this FO I'd have the same concerns.  But the off season as we know isn't all about that first round pick.  We got 4 other picks in the top 100.  In the end probably 100 million in cap room and yes there are good options IMO to upgrade the interior O line in FA.  Tackle usually sucks in FA, this year, too.  Interior is fine if we don't shop in the junk aisle like we typically do.

 

I agree there are no guarantees of course with the new regime.  But I have no doubt that they won't give a half ass at best effort to build around a new QB with all those picks and cap room.   It wasn't just that Rivera failed at doing it but his half ass effort was evident to me and you @Koolblue13, @DWinzit among others in real time as it was happening.

 

It was stunning Ron's lack of effort to do it.  The odds that anyone else duplicating that is almost zero IMO.  You mentioned in another thread what if they hire another Bruce Allen type or something like that.  The reason why I believe there is no chance of that is Harris has owned other teams.  His reputation is to simply find the dude that's the most coveted in personnel and go that guy.  That doesn't guarantee success indeed. 

 

But the odds are at a minimum good that whomever he hires doesn't even have basic common sense where they'd draft a QB while also not using their resources to build around that QB.  

 

I get @Going Commando cyncism to some extent.  He might be the only dude here unless i am forgetting one who doesn't care for Josh Harris.  But outside of that, I think Harris would have to hire someone even lower than Bruce to both inherit all this draft capital and cap room -- draft a QB and not try to surround them with more talent.  They'd have to be dumb business people too considering the last thing you want to bring fans back to the stands is to draft a QB and watch them fail. 

 

I get your point that they might understand this and still run a poor draft and sign the wrong guys in FA.   Maybe.  But at minimum I think the odds are almost 100% if they draft a QB they'd have the common sense where they wouldn't have to read this thread to get that hey lets help our shiny new toy actually work.  

One thing I've learned, brother, is that common sense doesn't exist.

 

I think it's safe to feel that we'll be moving in a better direction. I feel that way, too.

 

But I don't know **** until we see it. Either way. I won't assume the worst or the best. I'll wait and see and formulate my thoughts as events unfold.

 

I don't want to have expectations or assumptions until pieces are in place.

 

I see both sides and I sit on the fence for now. I'll get down on one side or the other when decisions really start happening. 

Edited December 19, 2023 by KDawg

[Skinsinparadise]

47 minutes ago, KDawg said:

One thing I've learned, brother, is that common sense doesn't exist.

 

I think it's safe to feel that we'll be moving in a better direction. I feel that way, too.

 

But I don't know **** until we see it. Either way. I won't assume the worst or the best. I'll wait and see and formulate my thoughts as events unfold.

 

I don't want to have expectations or assumptions until pieces are in place.

 

I see both sides and I set on the fence for now. I'll get down on one side or the other when decisions really start happening. 

 

OK, cool. I hear you.

 

What threw me off is you seemed to agree with @Going Commando 's point that this isn't an organization to groom a QB.     That makes this issue being a Washington football issue as if Dan was incidental to that process. 

 

To me that point doesn't accede how bad Dan Snyder was.  And ditto his hires.  As we know he was not just extremely stupid but he was a bad person who inflicted maybe the worst culture in sports.  

 

Under Dan we had no shot.   There are other bad owners.  But Dan was in his own orbit.  No one was even close to his level bad. 

 

So yeah here under Dan, this was hell to groom a QB for a variety of reasons.

 

A.  He would at times pick the QB himself.   Ramsey, RG3 (sort of) Haskins 

B.  Or he'd have his pals or non-evaluators make the call ala Bruce, Joe Gibbs, etc.

C.  The picks were at odds within the building at times

D. Dan himself would pick sides against the coaches on these QBs and sniff jock these guys

 

The one time they had semi-experts make the call in the Shanahans they found Kirk.  And in 2016 they had the #3 offense in the league.  But dysfunction reigned with Dan's alliances and Bruce being cheap and Kirk left and we've had the lowest QBR rating in the league since Kirk left.   Kirk isn't perfect.  But he was good for a spate here and that's WITH the dysfunction.

 

Dan was beyond just a clownshow.  It was Adams family level weird.

 

It wasn't about THIS organization can't groom a QB like others do.  It was about Dan Snyder's organization.  Josh Harris isn't some wildcard.  He's owned two other teams.  I know @Going Commando doesn't care for the 76ers GM and their run.   They are 18-8 right now.  They don't exactly suck.  Devils have gotten good and have a winning record.  But its not even about that and agreeing with his choices at GM.  It's that he actually swings for the fences as to hire hires for the FO.  Whether he hits on them or not, he swings for big names.

 

Dan never did.   Dan didn't even pay his scouts well and they'd leave.  Dan didn't give a rats behind about the FO.  That's why we had a combination of different coaches running the FO or Dan's buds in Cerrato and Bruce.  It wasn't just bad.  It was Adams Family level bad and weird.  And Dan was often the defacto GM himself.  How do we know Harris won't also act like the defacto GM?  Because he hasn't elsewhere.  Quite the opposite.

 

We can say Josh might end up equally bad and weird.   But I say no chance.  Zero.  He already has a reputation of swinging for the fences for the FO.  Getting the best of the best of everything.  He just hired a sports science guy to help players deal with injuries and recovery.  By reputation he does all the extra things to help teams win.  The nicest facilities.  Pay whatever it takes to get the best scouts, etc.

 

Yes, they might fail in some of their hires.  But the method to the madness will be radically different.  That's almost guaranteed.  Players have already talked about meeting with Harris and Harris asking them what they want out of the stadium and facilities and he's already started to deliver.  It should be night and day different.  The days of being run by a stupid tyrant are over.

 

For those Game of Throne fans, we are going from this dude like this to someone proven to be the opposite in many ways.  Harris isn't a wildcard, he's run other teams.  And just because someone doesn't like a GM hire he had -- there is really no parallels zero between him and Dan by reputation.   They might swing and miss on some things.  But the era of stupidity and nastiness is over.  

 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

OK, cool. I hear you.

 

What threw me off is you seemed to agree with @Going Commando 's point that this isn't an organization to groom a QB.   

 

To me that point doesn't accede how bad Dan Snyder was.  And ditto his hires.  As we know he was not just extremely stupid but he was a bad person who inflicted maybe the worst culture in sports.  

 

Under Dan we had no shot.   There are other bad owners.  But Dan was in his own orbit.  No one was even close to his level bad. 

 

So yeah here under Dan, this was hell to groom a QB for a variety of reasons.

 

A.  He would at times pick the QB himself.   Ramsey, RG3 (sort of) Haskins 

B.  Or he'd have his pals or non-evaluators make the call ala Bruce, Joe Gibbs, etc.

C.  They picks were at odds within the building at times

D. Dan himself would pick sides against the coaches and sniff jock these guys

 

The one time they had semi-experts make the call in the Shanahans they found Kirk.  And in 2016 they had the #3 offense in the league.  But dysfunction reigned with Dan's alliances and Bruce being cheap and Kirk left and we've had the lowest QBR rating since Kirk left.   Kirk isn't perfect.  But he was good for a spate here and that's WITH the dysfunction.

 

Dan was beyond just a clownshow.  It was Adams family level weird.

 

It wasn't about THIS organization can't groom a QB like others do.  It was about Dan Snyder's organization.  Josh Harris isn't some wildcard.  He's owned two other teams.  I know @Going Commando doesn't care for the 76ers run.   They are 18-8 right now.  They don't exactly suck.  Devils have gotten better and have a winning record.  But its not about that and agreeing with his choices at GM.  He actually swings for the fences as to hire hires for the FO.  Dan never dud.   Dan didn't even pay his scouts well and they'd leave.  Dan didn't give a rats behind about the FO.  That's why we had a combination of difference coaches running the FO or Dan's buds in Cerrato and Bruce.  It wasn't just bad.  It was Adams Family level bad and weird.

 

We can see Josh might be equally bad and weird.   But I say no chance.  Zero.  He already has a reputation of swining for the fences for the FO.  Getting the best of the best of everything.  He just hired a sports science guy to help players deal with injuries and recovery.  By reputation he does all the extra things to help teams win.  The nicest facilities.  Pay whatever it takes to get the best scouts, etc.

 

Yes, they might fail in some of their hires.  But the method to the madness will be radically different.  That's almost guaranteed.  Players have already talked about meeting with Harris and Harris asking them what they want out of the stadium and facilities and he's already started to deliver.  It should be night and day different.  The days of being run by a stupid tyrant 

 

For those Game of Throne fans, we are going from this dude to someone proven to be the opposite in many ways.  Harris isn't a wildcard, he's run other teams.  And just because someone doesn't like a GM hire he had -- there is really no parallels zero between him an Dan.   They might swing and miss on some things.  But the era of stupidity and nastiness is over.  

 

 

 

The point that wasn’t lost on me, that I agreed with, is that it’s going to be very difficult to develop a QB with the roster as it is. 
 

That doesn’t mean impossible. But I agree with the point… if the line and other items aren’t shored up, starting the clock on a rookie contract and trying to develop a guy is a mistake. 
 

But I have no idea if that’s how it’ll play out yet. We’ll see.

[DWinzit]

41 minutes ago, philibusters said:

 

If Howell was 6'4 he would see the middle of the field easier, probably process that area of the field slightly faster, and probably would have been a 1st round pick.  I agree 4 inches makes a significant difference.

I posted line of sight concerns a couple times as FA unfolded and we brought in 6' 5" starting C who could play G and a 6'6" G who they were going to start at RT. Then they announced Cosmi 6'6" would move inside. I thought knowing our QB was under 6'1" we'd not be building these tall guys especially in the IOL. Responses were that it wouldn't really make a difference. I still find that hard to believe. 

 

On the same rant, I also didn't understand how the 6'6" C exchange to a under 6'1" QB would work out or if he could get goo leverage. I know there are some good tall C's but it makes things harder on.

[Skinsinparadise]

21 minutes ago, KDawg said:

The point that wasn’t lost on me, that I agreed with, is that it’s going to be very difficult to develop a QB with the roster as it is. 
 

That doesn’t mean impossible. But I agree with the point… if the line and other items aren’t shored up, starting the clock on a rookie contract and trying to develop a guy is a mistake. 
 

But I have no idea if that’s how it’ll play out yet. We’ll see.

 

OK for me when he went:  "This franchise is contemptible and utterly incompetent and uncompetitive.  We're third rate in every sense.  I don't enjoy seeing promising young careers come here to die, and I don't think we deserve to get the opportunity to ruin any more young quarterbacks."

 

That feels like the past-future is the same. For me to buy that premise I'd also have to believe that either Dan really wasn't that bad or already judge Harris to be equally a big time douche and same level stupid.  

 

That feels a bit crazy to me.  There is nothing in Josh's background that indicates that he's anything like Dan.  Most indicators are the opposite.  Plenty that what he is ALREADY doing indicates the opposite.  Or if the idea is this is a Washington issue, not a Dan Snyder issue it forgets a lot of history both about Dan and what this organization was before Dan. 

 

As you know Dan wasnt just a bad owner.  He was epic historic level bad.  There will be a Netflix series on the dude I bet one day.  He is beyond infamous and he's earned that reputation.  There are plenty who have observed sports who believe he might be the worst owner in the history of sports.

 

 Talking purely though football.  I agree it won't be easy to build around the QB right away. But I go no doubt they will try.   Ron oddly didn' t even try -- which is wild to me and stunning and why I turned on him this off season.    If I had to guess why, I think its he already had a baked in idea to sell Harris that he's the guy to move forward with this team because look at that defense he built and just be patient with Howell as he learns the position.  But it blew up on him because the defense sucked and it ended up a lose lose drill for him.  But i also don't think he's good at his job.

 

But the idea of promising young careers come here to die, we don't deserve the opportunity to ruin any more QBs -- in my mind doesn't acknowledge how epically bad Dan was.  Not bad.  Epically bad.  It's not a Washington Redskins-Football team-Commanders problem where its in the organization's DNA.  It's a Dan Snyder era issue because of Dan Snyder and all of his hires who have had the Dan stench all over them sadly.

 

The idea that Dan's FO and coaching staff bombed their last off season and season leading into this change -- if anything brings home the point.

 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

I get the idea of not having faith in the team/owner/FO/coaching moving forward because we all are a beaten down bunch of fans over a long term. 

 

The thing is all will be new next year, a true genesis. Our last true genesis was when Dan took over in 1999.

 

I am willing to give them the chance they deserve. They are being handed a tough nut to crack with a very limited talent level on the roster. 

 

I do worry about taking a QB early, mainly because I don't really love any of them. That and the void in talent is why I am more into building the roster up this year but yeah, Howell may not be the guy, but he still could be. That will be a defining move for the new regime. 

[Chris 44]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Greg Cosell who is far from a Howell hater went why did he go in the 5th round asking around people he knew around the league.  Howell's height was a big part of it.  The type of QBs who succeed at that height are typically uber athletes like Russell Wilson.  Howell isn't seen the same way.  Not too many dudes at his height have killed it in the NFL.  Brees being one of them but its not some long list.

 

When I keep hearing teams cluttering Howell's line of sight up the middle as a strategy to beat him and even Keim who probably is more in the tank than any reporter I can think of talks about THEY (the FO) talks about they know they need to factor Howell's height when dealing with the O line and the oppostion.  It's a real factor.  He leads the league in battered balls. So yeah you give Howell 4 inches I think it changes a lot for the dude let alone a bit more speed. 

 

I think Howell can be a good QB.  But I am skeptical about great.  I know some now are skeptical about him being good.  But i think he can be, I am not 100% sold on Drake Maye but he has the tools to be great.  Whether that happens or not, I don't know.

Thought this for some time now which is why he looks better off schedule, roll outs etc. He doesnt have the experience to know where a defender is going to be in relation to the intended receiver making him hesitant to pull the trigger (the large number of sacks made him even more hesitant to throw without "seeing" what was downfield). He's so much better when he has a better view of the field which he obviously gets when out of the pocket. Porous OL that allows someone to quickly be in his face compounds the issue. The Bree's example is a QB who could "see" without being able to literally "see".

I thought when we got Wentz that him being taller that TH would also pay dividends for the same reasons, but obviously he had issues not related to height.

[Panninho]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

 

Not to answer for him, but we don't know if we're trending upwards yet. It's a logical assumption we will... but we don't know that.

 

Also, it's about timing as much as it is about talent. If we get the QB now, are we going to waste years on his contract getting the pieces around him vs. Getting the pieces (I'm not talking about an immaculate roster... just a baseline NFL roster) and see incremental improvements and then go get the QB? 

 

Of course, there are challenges to doing it that way... one of which is improving enough to move your draft position out of the top 5-10 picks and hoping someone solid falls without you reaching. 

 

A lot of us are more wait and see than negative. I know that's my approach. 

 

And I don't agree that we'd "ruin" a new QB developmentally, necessarily, especially considering we don't know who will call the shots.

 

So for me... it's wait and see. 

 

But if this franchise is systematically rotten and the new ownership is not better than the old one, why would timing matter? They can either build a quality roster or they can't. We weren't ever able to build a real quality roster here regardless of the QB under Snyder. We have had basically no All-Pros over the last 20 years, no playoff wins, etc. (and other teams have won playoff games with trash QBs also). If you generally believe someone can build a good roster here, then I don't see that as a logical argument against drafting a QB. To me, that's an argument for getting a QB when you have to chance to get one, because that is by far the hardest part when it comes to building a quality roster. These opportunities don't present themselves often. And with the cap space and draft capital we have (especially with a rookie QB salary) you can build a contender in less than the 5 years you have on that contract. The Texans were thought to be absolute trash before the season and now they have 5 years of Stroud and I don't think it is wild to assume that they can build a contender around him in 2 years max if he keeps trending that way. They did not build the team first, the Bengals also didn't.

 

The only valid arguments against drafting a QB for me are 1) We don't like the QBs in this draft and love other prospects 2) We love Sam Howell or at least like him better than the players available. But the rest to me is just hard to logically understand when there is almost no evidence to support any of these narratives as they are all basically built on "Washington has sucked under Dan Snyder".