Game Day Thread - Washingburgh at Dallas

[BrentMeisterGeneral]

2 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

IMO, they just hired Ron on the off chance he could get this team respectable, needed a good, respectable guy to kind of make up for the ****ed up stupid **** that's gone on here for too long and that's it.

Potentially yeh, but Ron isn’t gonna do anything more for Dans war on the PR of the culture in that building, his uses to both Dan and this organisation as a whole are dwindling

[MAATopDogg]

6 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

You have to give a QB at least a beat to read the defense after the snap.  You can make a pre-read, but after the ball is snapped, you need at least some degree of time, call it 1.5 seconds, to look what is actually happening.

 

On so many of the plays, by 1.5 seconds, Wentz has to start to evade the guy who's bust through the middle of the line, and also figure out what the defense is doing at the same time.

 

Literally no QB can do that, at least not consistently.  

 

If it felt like Wentz was holding the ball, I'd give that to you.  But at least today, I didn't get that feeling.  It felt like the pressure was immediate and right in his face.

 

There are a couple of different schematic ways you can work around this:

 

1. roll the pocket one way or the other.  Which we NEVER do and is maddening.  And we never have done, literally forever.  I've never understood why we never move the pocket. Going back 40 years.  Literally the one time Gibbs 1 did it, the play got a nickname, Sprint-Bomb.  (I'm not picking on Gibbs, clearly they didn't HAVE to do it.  But the fact it was so novel to have Rypien run 8 steps to his left and then set up to throw shows you the fact they NEVER did it.) 

 

2. Never huddle and mix up the cadence so the defense can't queue on when the snap will come.  Peyton and the Colts were masters of this.  It's so easy, I don't know why we don't do this either.  You don't even have to go hurry-up, just don't huddle.

 

3. Add quick slants and quick outs to the playbook.  3 step drop from under center, which means the QB doesn't have to look at the ball to catch it, and can have his eyes on the defense the entire time, 3 step drop, plant, throw.  The entire WCO was based on a bad OL (Walsh invented it when he had a trash OL in Cincy), and based on quick throws from under center. I get that Turner runs the Coryell system.  But do more of that.  

 

4. STOP calling screens.  We don't have the athleticism on the OL to pull them off.  They always get blown up.  

 

Start with that.  Then come back and talk to me. 

Good Points. 80% of the problems with the offense starts with Scott Turner. He’s can make adjustments and isn’t innovative. The QB shouldn’t  be getting hit numerous times

[DazedSkinsfan]

I have nothing of any value to inject in this thread that hasn't already been covered.  We are BAD,  just a terrible organization from the owner to the water boy. This organization lacks leadership from its owner,  it lacks coaching on both sides of the ball including individual positions,  it lacks talent,  enthusiasm,  discipline and so on and so on.  As someone mentioned earlier,  we are just plain boring.  Have we hit rock bottom yet??? If not then we have to be awfully close.

[HTTSkins]

It’s broken in so many places man; and the disparity with penalties we didn’t stand a chance anyway 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Just now, Renegade7 said:

 

He wasn't brought in to win a championship, he was brought in for damage control...

 

Yeah.  

 

I mean, I'd like to see him get fired but it doesn't change anything.  Whoever they hire next will be just as bad.

[CjSuAvE22]

There was a time where the cowboys were I. The backfield rushing THREE and some of you want to defend the OLINE cmon man.

[Mr. Sinister]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

 

He wasn't brought in to win a championship, he was brought in for damage control...

 

Yup. Basically a "Kick the can down the road" Hiring.

Just now, CjSuAvE22 said:

There was a time where the cowboys were I. The backfield rushing THREE and some of you want to defend the OLINE cmon man.

 

Under siege immediately, after seemingly every other snap.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

Yes, Wentz was awful. The line was worse. There was zero good occurring on that offense today.

So, here's the thing: I find it really, really hard to judge a QB good or bad when they have virtually no time to do anything before they have to evade somebody in their lap.  It's impossible to have good mechanics, read a defense, get the ball out, it just destroys everything, and also makes the QB rush and jumpy even when there isn't pressure, because they start to expect it because they've had their brains bashed in.

 

This is 3 weeks in a row for Wentz where he has been entirely under fire.  

When he has just a little bit of time, he's been pretty good.  When he gets ball and there's a guy in his lap, he's been really bad.

 

So I find it really hard to pass judgement in either direction. 

 

The OL was absolutely historically bad.  

 

I think the play that made it most obvious, in the 4th quarter, there was a play action play, Wentz carried out the fake, turned around, and saw a guy literally 2 steps from him, and had to unload the ball.  I think that was the intentional grounding to Thomas.  He didn't even have 1 second after the PA to do ANYTHING.  He could have fallen down and taken a sack, or he could have winged it in some direction, which he did. 

 

It was a microcosm of the entire game.  

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I have been a Rivera guy, but that is a fireable offense.  I don't know who Dan could get to replace him.  But with an average OL they have the ability to be a top 10 offense.  With this OL, they won't be able to do anything.  

 

And he's wasting $28m of Dan's cash-strapped money. 

 

 

 

I don't really live and die with any of our coaches.   

 

I'll take a crash season if it demoralizes Dan (I know I know some including you, think I am a dreamer on this) to sell.  Some evidence that this is a big season for Dan -- rebranding, trying to sell to Virginia that they are a good bet for a stadium -- a team on the rise, avoiding being the bottom of the league in ticket sales, pressure from other owners, etc. 

 

As for Ron.   It looks like he may have bet on the wrong horse with Wentz.  I haven't been impressed so far.  But I am still open minded.  And yeah the idea that Masko can make lemonade out of lemons might be the arrogant fatal Shakesperean flaw from the off season.  Maybe there was really something to the record of with or without Scherff.   If I recall during his career we are like 4-22 or something insanely bad without him.  Would I've paid him 17 million no.  But replacing Scherff with just a guy and then ditto Flowers and then compounded with Rouillier's injury has arguably trashed the season. 

Edited October 2, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Redskins 2021]

The oline and secondary are probably the worst of problems right now.

 

Wentz is up and down with the oline its hard to get a read on him.

[tomwvr]

1 minute ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

There was a time where the cowboys were I. The backfield rushing THREE and some of you want to defend the OLINE cmon man.

I only saw one person defending the ol. They were awful , wentz was awful and coaching was awful

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Yeah.  

 

I mean, I'd like to see him get fired but it doesn't change anything.  Whoever they hire next will be just as bad. worse..

 

FTFY

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

So, here's the thing: I find it really, really hard to judge a QB good or bad when they have virtually no time to do anything before they have to evade somebody in their lap.  It's impossible to have good mechanics, read a defense, get the ball out, it just destroys everything, and also makes the QB rush and jumpy even when there isn't pressure, because they start to expect it because they've had their brains bashed in.

 

This is 3 weeks in a row for Wentz where he has been entirely under fire.  

When he has just a little bit of time, he's been pretty good.  When he gets ball and there's a guy in his lap, he's been really bad.

 

So I find it really hard to pass judgement in either direction. 

 

The OL was absolutely historically bad.  

 

I think the play that made it most obvious, in the 4th quarter, there was a play action play, Wentz carried out the fake, turned around, and saw a guy literally 2 steps from him, and had to unload the ball.  I think that was the intentional grounding to Thomas.  He didn't even have 1 second after the PA to do ANYTHING.  He could have fallen down and taken a sack, or he could have winged it in some direction, which he did. 

 

It was a microcosm of the entire game.  

Mmhmm. The problem is that when he had time he threw the ball in the dirt. 
 

There’s some fault on Wentz. You can’t absolve him. But the line was much worse than Wentz.

[SkinsGuy]

6 minutes ago, DazedSkinsfan said:

have nothing of any value to inject in this thread that hasn't already been covered.  We are BAD,  just a terrible organization from the owner to the water boy.

 

Well, I don't know about the water boy.

 

They seem to be getting the Gatorade to the players pretty timely. 

Edited October 2, 2022 by SkinsGuy

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 minutes ago, CO68 said:

Are you Carson Wentz or his wife? 

No, but I've listened to enough Smoot to know he has no idea what the hell he's looking at, ever.  He yaps and runs his mouth and is entertaining.  

 

Also, I think "blame the QB" is a low-football-intelligence go-to for people who literally have no idea what just happened. But they want to sound smart.  And, to other people who don't know what they just watched, they do look smart.  

For people who know what they are watching, they sound like idiots.  

[Skinsinparadise]

As for Wentz judging by my own amateurish eyes but more so with the experts on offense -- Cooley and Paulsen.  Wentz is indeed part of the problem with sacks.  He's not the main problem but he's not a pure victim of it either. 

Edited October 2, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[skinsfan93]

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

I think the play that made it most obvious, in the 4th quarter, there was a play action play, Wentz carried out the fake, turned around, and saw a guy literally 2 steps from him, and had to unload the ball.  I think that was the intentional grounding to Thomas.  He didn't even have 1 second after the PA to do ANYTHING.  He could have fallen down and taken a sack, or he could have winged it in some direction, which he did. 

I agree you can’t put this entirely on Wentz. The play calling by Turner is just bad!  Yes he did try play action but where was that in the first half when the game was actually close and we were running the ball? Why not move the pocket?  Wentz is in the same spot on every drop back. 

[HTTSkins]

What this team needs is a veteran QB Ron??? Pittsburgh already gave Pickett snaps today why not try Howell?? Try any damn thing man just try differently cotdam it’s a joke 

[ExoDus84]

Look like ****, play like ****, are ****. 

 

Different week, stolen Iowa unis, same poor results.

 

This team is just a loser piece of ****. 

[Panninho]

5 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

The oline and secondary are probably the worst of problems right now.

 

Wentz is up and down with the oline its hard to get a read on him.

Im what world is Wentz up and down? He had one good throw today, that was the TD. He has been just as bad as the o-line.

 

Edited October 2, 2022 by Panninho

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

No, but I've listened to enough Smoot to know he has no idea what the hell he's looking at, ever.  He yaps and runs his mouth and is entertaining.  

 

Also, I think "blame the QB" is a low-football-intelligence go-to for people who literally have no idea what just happened. But they want to sound smart.  And, to other people who don't know what they just watched, they do look smart.  

For people who know what they are watching, they sound like idiots.  

 

Smoot a dmv diet Stephen a Smith...

[Skintime]

18 minutes ago, BrentMeisterGeneral said:

Washington are not a good team, and Ron Rivera is a massive part of that

When was the last time in your mind that we were good? This is all the same show for 30 years

[tomwvr]

2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Smoot a dmv diet Stephen a Smith...

Thats pretty good 

[BrentMeisterGeneral]

1 minute ago, Skintime said:

When was the last time in your mind that we were good? This is all the same show for 30 years

Im fully aware it’s pre Dan, nothing I say is a defence for him, but I don’t think Ron etc should get a free ride cause his boss is useless

[Redwards]

15 hours ago, DazedSkinsfan said:

I have nothing of any value to inject in this thread that hasn't already been covered.  We are BAD,  just a terrible organization from the owner to the water boy. This organization lacks leadership from its owner,  it lacks coaching on both sides of the ball including individual positions,  it lacks talent,  enthusiasm,  discipline and so on and so on.  As someone mentioned earlier,  we are just plain boring.  Have we hit rock bottom yet??? If not then we have to be awfully close.

Rock bottom is a myth for this franchise.  

 

This far into Danny's tenure as owner, we've tunneled through the earth and are now in outer space.   Truly, with regard to this..."franchise"...there is no bottom.  

Edited October 3, 2022 by Redwards