Work/Life Balance and Quietly Quitting

[mistertim]

I'm curious if there's any group consensus on something like this question...what would be a few things about a job that would make you love it there and never want to leave?

[The Evil Genius]

1 hour ago, tshile said:

you sound like an awful employee who creates more problems than you think you’re solving 

 

im also pretty sure this behavior would put your license at stake and put you potentially in legal jeopardy 

 

the people at hospitals are paid extremely well in this area, by the way. 

 

You IT people steal all sorts of **** though. 😆

 

I kid..sort of. But agree with what was said probably wasn't the best story to convey. 

 

30 minutes ago, mistertim said:

I'm curious if there's any group consensus on something like this question...what would be a few things about a job that would make you love it there and never want to leave?

 

Probably the  <1%  of people doing a job they love will tell you doing a job you love.

Edited August 25, 2022 by The Evil Genius

[Llevron]

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

I'm curious if there's any group consensus on something like this question...what would be a few things about a job that would make you love it there and never want to leave?

 

Management makes a huge difference.

Growth opportunity either individually or in the company. 

How much PTO you can build up and how fast. 

How many times they email me after hours. 

And obviously how well they pay me. 

 

All those things factor on a sliding scale. This current place doesn't pay me as much as their competitors but they make up for it in every other area to the point where I have my wife working here now (And they brought her in to run one of the ****ing divisions so now I'm the less important Llevron in the building). Example - the people. They have known her for like 6 months. They threw a surprise baby shower and we haven't spend more then 20 bucks total on cloths and diapers since the child dropped out. They didn't have to do that at all and it was kinda awkward but...i mean it really really ****ing helped. 

 

Edited August 25, 2022 by Llevron

[The Sisko]

1 hour ago, tshile said:

you sound like an awful employee who creates more problems than you think you’re solving 

 

im also pretty sure this behavior would put your license at stake and put you potentially in legal jeopardy 

 

the people at hospitals are paid extremely well in this area, by the way. 

Thank you.😃

 

As for the pay, this was maybe fifteen or eighteen years ago, long before COVID was a thing. Pay for RTs in the DC area then was OK, not great, but OK. When I moved to Atlanta, it was an entirely different ball of wax. Pay wasn't totally awful, but you really had to look for a hospital that wasn't trying to lowball the employees. I found one that paid close to the most I could find, even though it didn't come close to what I had been making in the DC area, but more importantly, it had the education benefits that would allow me to make good my escape from the profession. The only problem was that over time, I discovered that the department manager was just a horrible human being. She was the kind of person who saw someone limping into work one evening and instead of asking what happened or how the guy was doing, instead blurted out "How are you going to get to codes quickly enough". Then there was the time she allowed her 2nd banana to take a week off when his dog died while the rest of us had to be damn near dead before being allowed to call out for a shift without consequences. The tipping point for me was when she embarrassed me in front of everyone in a department meeting for having the nerve to *GASP* ask a question. That was the moment I went over the edge.

It's not exactly typical behavior for me but I'd do it again if the situation called for it. FWIW, other than as a teenager, I've never had a poor employee eval and I was always in the upper echelon of the RT departments in which I've worked. Not all therapists are allowed to intubate patients, place arterial lines and so on so I'd say I've been a pretty decent clinician and employee, though not perfect by any means. However, I give what I get in terms of respect and treatment.

I've had crappy jobs with poor pay from time to time, but I haven't resorted to the kinds of tactics I described unless there's a toxic boss. As for being in legal jeopardy or losing my license, I wasn't parading around with a sign that said "Gitcher free meds here!". I'd simply do some patient teaching and accidentally leave the inhaler in their room with a wink, or maybe I'd accidentally change out some equipment too early and so on. If confronted about it, well, it was just an innocent mistake.

In any event, this kind of behavior isn't new, innovative or unique to me. Several of my professors have talked about it in my management courses. In some cases they talked about how to spot and deal with it, but more effort was spent on discussing prevention, i.e. not creating a toxic workplace, being transparent, fair, and open-minded, etc.

Edited August 25, 2022 by The Sisko

[Llevron]

24 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

Probably the  <1%  of people doing a job they live will tell you doing a job you love.

 

This **** is so boring though. I legit am bored to tears with the work. Nothing about the actual work I like.

[purbeast]

1 minute ago, Llevron said:

 

Management makes a huge difference.

Growth opportunity either individually or in the company. 

How much PTO you can build up and how fast. 

How many times they email me after hours. 

And obviously how well they pay me. 

 

All those things factor on a sliding scale. This currently place doesn't pay me as much as their competitors but they make up for it in every other area to the point where I have my wife working here now (And they brought her in to run one of the ****ing divisions so now I'm the less important Llevron in the building). Example - the people. They have known her for like 6 months. They threw a surprise baby shower and we haven't spend more then 20 bucks total on cloths and diapers since the child dropped out. They didn't have to do that at all and it was kinda awkward but...i mean it really really ****ing helped. 

 

I would also add one more, at least in my field.

 

Using current technology.

 

I've been at places and on projects using old tech and it's not as fun developing in AngularJS when Angular 14 is the current version.  Or if you're stuck using things like Backbone when there is React out there.

 

To me personally, it's about being engaged in what I am doing and not being bored, while making good money and having good benefits.  My benefits are pretty much unheard of, even in other software dev industries.  I also am not going to be working more than I am paid to, which is 40 hours a week.  I don't want to have to go through hoops to be able to take vacation - I want to give you a heads up when I am going to be on vacation and then they can figure the rest out.  Oh and now since covid, working remotely is pretty much a must, at least for the majority of the time.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 hour ago, tshile said:

you sound like an awful employee who creates more problems than you think you’re solving 

 

Yeah, no kidding...all that behavior does is drive up the cost even more. A+ hahaha

[Spaceman Spiff]

13 minutes ago, mistertim said:

I'm curious if there's any group consensus on something like this question...what would be a few things about a job that would make you love it there and never want to leave?

Having won the lottery and not having to work. Just doing it cause I like it. 

[The Sisko]

34 minutes ago, mistertim said:

I'm curious if there's any group consensus on something like this question...what would be a few things about a job that would make you love it there and never want to leave?

 

I like being challenged - to a point

The people I work with

Pay/benefits

Interesting and meaningful work

[tshile]

33 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

You IT people steal all sorts of **** though. 😆

IT people are the worst. We really are. 
 

I mean I’m not but most of us suck. 
 

when I’m introduced at dinner parties/cookouts I can see it in peoples eyes. 
 

i might as well tell people I’m a car salesman. 

[mistertim]

What would you guys think about working somewhere that didn't have "work day hours"? As in, the time constrained 8 hour work day / 40 hour work week is out the door (the 40 hour work week is a stupid dinosaur at this point IMO), and instead you have goal based constraints on a daily/weekly basis. If you're in the zone and finish your work in 3 hours, you're done for the day (though if you have meetings, etc planned you'd need to make those).

 

Obviously there would have to be methods to reliably track work getting done and accountability, and you'd have to trust people to set good and realistic (not too easy, not insanely difficult) goals.

Edited August 25, 2022 by mistertim

[The Sisko]

9 minutes ago, mistertim said:

What would you guys think about working somewhere that didn't have "work day hours"? As in, the time constrained 8 hour work day / 40 hour work week is out the door (the 40 hour work week is a stupid dinosaur at this point IMO), and instead you have goal based constraints on a daily/weekly basis. If you're in the zone and finish your work in 3 hours, you're done for the day (though if you have meetings, etc planned you'd need to make those).

 

Obviously there would have to be methods to reliably track work getting done and accountability, and you'd have to trust people to set good and realistic (not too easy, not insanely difficult) goals.

This is pretty much my current job. I work from home, so in between work stuff, I have the time to care for my M-I-L and do things for our daughter. Other times, it might be a temporary motivation issue but in any case, if necessary and feasible, I can usually push my work into the evening, early morning hours, or weekend without any issues. I don't get paid a king's ransom but it's enjoyable, important work and the work/personal life balance is about perfect. The only real gripe I have, if you can even call it that, is that after we went virtual, I really missed the human interaction in the office. So for me a hybrid week with one or two days in the office would be ideal.

[tshile]

9 minutes ago, mistertim said:

What would you guys think about working somewhere that didn't have "work day hours"? As in, the time constrained 8 hour work day / 40 hour work week is out the door (the 40 hour work week is a stupid dinosaur at this point IMO)

This is what I have. 
In addition I have unlimited pto. And I don’t report it to anyone nor do I need approval; it’s not recorded anywhere.  In fact it was funny at first cause I would make it a point to tell my boss what was going on the first few weeks and finally said one time - look man, don’t give a ****, do what you need to and just put up an out of office message if you’re not available, we’ll figure it out. 😂 
 

i love it. Won’t consider going back to the old way unless it’s my only option. It’s great. 
 

the only downside I’ve found is you will not get a PTO payout when you leave. I’m ok with that. 
 

but it’s not for everyone. If you have that, then there is an expectation about how you do your job and overall how well you do it - and if you don’t meet expectations you’ll lose your job. There’s zero tolerance for ****ing around. 
 

some people call it a scam because reappears show people with unlimited PTO take less time off - well, back to it not being for everyone, that’s on you. When you’re literally the only person with a say in when you work or how much time you take away, then it’s your fault if  you don’t take enough time off…

 

if you’re self motivated, can work independent, can understand what the expectations are and meet them… it’s so awesome. I can’t even imagine a realistic (as in it would be offered for the job) salary increase someone would have to offer me to lure me away from this and back into the traditional 40 hours/week, butts in seats bull**** model. Never again, so long as I have any say in it. 

[mistertim]

7 minutes ago, tshile said:

This is what I have. 
In addition I have unlimited pto. And I don’t report it to anyone nor do I need approval; it’s not recorded anywhere.  In fact it was funny at first cause I would make it a point to tell my boss what was going on the first few weeks and finally said one time - look man, don’t give a ****, do what you need to and just put up an out of office message if you’re not available, we’ll figure it out. 😂 
 

i love it. Won’t consider going back to the old way unless it’s my only option. It’s great. 
 

the only downside I’ve found is you will not get a PTO payout when you leave. I’m ok with that. 
 

but it’s not for everyone. If you have that, then there is an expectation about how you do your job and overall how well you do it - and if you don’t meet expectations you’ll lose your job. There’s zero tolerance for ****ing around. 
 

some people call it a scam because reappears show people with unlimited PTO take less time off - well, back to it not being for everyone, that’s on you. When you’re literally the only person with a say in when you work or how much time you take away, then it’s your fault if  you don’t take enough time off…

 

if you’re self motivated, can work independent, can understand what the expectations are and meet them… it’s so awesome. I can’t even imagine a realistic (as in it would be offered for the job) salary increase someone would have to offer me to lure me away from this and back into the traditional 40 hours/week, butts in seats bull**** model. Never again, so long as I have any say in it. 

 

Yeah I hear you about the unlimited PTO issue. I think it's one of those things that sounds ok in theory, but in practice it doesn't work out. Sort of like open office floor plans. IMO probably better to just set a PTO limit, but be generous with it.

 

I think unlimited PTO has been used as a semi-scam, since big companies probably know that the research says people with unlimited PTO actually take less time off and that they also won't have to do any PTO payouts. But I also think there are probably companies that did it with good intentions but just didn't realize how it could screw things up.

[Jabbyrwock]

24 minutes ago, mistertim said:

What would you guys think about working somewhere that didn't have "work day hours"? As in, the time constrained 8 hour work day / 40 hour work week is out the door (the 40 hour work week is a stupid dinosaur at this point IMO), and instead you have goal based constraints on a daily/weekly basis. If you're in the zone and finish your work in 3 hours, you're done for the day (though if you have meetings, etc planned you'd need to make those).

 

Obviously there would have to be methods to reliably track work getting done and accountability, and you'd have to trust people to set good and realistic (not too easy, not insanely difficult) goals.

 

Basically how it works in the waters I swim in...best job ever.  For it to be successful self motivation and honest assessment is everything...fortunately in this career path people that aren't self motivated and such get filtered out pretty quickly, so it works.

[tshile]

8 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah I hear you about the unlimited PTO issue. I think it's one of those things that sounds ok in theory, but in practice it doesn't work out. Sort of like open office floor plans. IMO probably better to just set a PTO limit, but be generous with it.

 

I think unlimited PTO has been used as a semi-scam, since big companies probably know that the research says people with unlimited PTO actually take less time off and that they also won't have to do any PTO payouts. But I also think there are probably companies that did it with good intentions but just didn't realize how it could screw things up.

Well - here’s the thing… this research is looking at how it nets out on average. 
 

Unlimited PTO is no different than work from home - it’s not for everyone. Some are more productive, some less, some the same, and some that just screw around until management fires them. 
 

don’t let reports about how people on average handle it sway you. Let your ability to understand yourself guide you. 
 

my wife has limited PTO and is constantly capped out and has to blow days off just to continue accruing PTO. And plenty of people are like they. They’re surely not taking enough time off and having set PTO isn’t the reason why. And I would expect that person to have the same problem (not taking enough time off) if they had unlimited PTO. 
 

I don’t have that problem. 
 

With the caveat that it’s my job to understand when things are going on I need to be “around” for (not physically, but you know what I mean), and that ultimately there’s an expectation on the work I get done… as long as I have my laptop and phone and cell service I can deal with anything on the fly. I throw my laptop in the golf cart, I take it on vacations, etc. 

 

of you’re someone that needs the structure of having 3 weeks off a year and planing 3, 1 week long vacations, maybe it’s not for you. 
 

if you like to get out of town for a week, or a long weekend, on the fly it’s perfect. 
 

it also requires the whole company (or at least whoever you work with) to have respect for you too. They need to understand non-emergency stuff will wait until you’re “back”. 
 

in the right situation with the right people it’s ****ing awesome. 
 

one person flies across the country for 6 weeks to be with his family from his home town. 
 

and everyone values his ability to do that because it makes him happy which makes him more productive and there’s never been an issue with him missing deadlines, or otherwise not getting his job done. Everyone appreciates the ability to do whatever they want in life - and by extension they respect everyone else’s ability/desire to do the same. 
 

it’s really not any different than your original question about not having a 40hr/week requirement or having set hours you work. Or any different than being able to work from home full time. 
 

it’s a big responsibility to manage that benefit - and if you can then it’s awesome. 
 

literally the only legit complaint I’ve found is you don’t get PTO payout when you leave. 
 

that’s not an issue for me. 
 

 

 

[mistertim]

15 minutes ago, tshile said:

Well - here’s the thing… this research is looking at how it nets out on average. 
 

Unlimited PTO is no different than work from home - it’s not for everyone. Some are more productive, some less, some the same, and some that just screw around until management fires them. 
 

don’t let reports about how people on average handle it sway you. Let your ability to understand yourself guide you. 
 

my wife has limited PTO and is constantly capped out and has to blow days off just to continue accruing PTO. And plenty of people are like they. They’re surely not taking enough time off and having set PTO isn’t the reason why. And I would expect that person to have the same problem (not taking enough time off) if they had unlimited PTO. 
 

I don’t have that problem. 
 

With the caveat that it’s my job to understand when things are going on I need to be “around” for (not physically, but you know what I mean), and that ultimately there’s an expectation on the work I get done… as long as I have my laptop and phone and cell service I can deal with anything on the fly. I throw my laptop in the golf cart, I take it on vacations, etc. 

 

of you’re someone that needs the structure of having 3 weeks off a year and planing 3, 1 week long vacations, maybe it’s not for you. 
 

if you like to get out of town for a week, or a long weekend, on the fly it’s perfect. 
 

it also requires the whole company (or at least whoever you work with) to have respect for you too. They need to understand non-emergency stuff will wait until you’re “back”. 
 

in the right situation with the right people it’s ****ing awesome. 
 

one person flies across the country for 6 weeks to be with his family from his home town. 
 

and everyone values his ability to do that because it makes him happy which makes him more productive and there’s never been an issue with him missing deadlines, or otherwise not getting his job done. Everyone appreciates the ability to do whatever they want in life - and by extension they respect everyone else’s ability/desire to do the same. 
 

it’s really not any different than your original question about not having a 40hr/week requirement or having set hours you work. Or any different than being able to work from home full time. 
 

it’s a big responsibility to manage that benefit - and if you can then it’s awesome. 
 

literally the only legit complaint I’ve found is you don’t get PTO payout when you leave. 
 

that’s not an issue for me. 
 

 

 

 

So basically if you have self motivated A players who all trust and respect each other then it isn't really an issue.

[tshile]

8 hours ago, Llevron said:

Management makes a huge difference.

Growth opportunity either individually or in the company. 

How much PTO you can build up and how fast. 

How many times they email me after hours. 

And obviously how well they pay me. 

This is me. I would only add;

I want to be around smart people I learn from (… it’d actually what I like about this place and why I still post/read despite wishing the dumpster fire that is our football team ceased to exist anywhere near its current form)

 

I can’t stand being around dumb people that argue it’s me 

 

edit: derp

but The real reason I wanted to quote this was the how fast you accrue pto part

have never really job hopped. I parking for only my second boss in 16 years. Never considered how fast you accrue, only ever looked at caps and general “this many weeks a year”

 

bumping up accruals so they can go more often could compete (even be better) than the unlimited pto thing. 
 

id think you need a low cap. The point is to get breaks and enjoy your job that allows it, not stack a huge payout for when you leave. 

Edited August 26, 2022 by tshile

[CousinsCowgirl84]

9 hours ago, Llevron said:

 

 

How much PTO you can build up and how fast. 

 

something that would make you never leave your job is being able to leave your job a lot.

 

🙃

Edited August 26, 2022 by CousinsCowgirl84

[Llevron]

@tshile @CousinsCowgirl84 y’all get it. Truth be told I didn’t know it was something I wanted until I had it. Funny thing is I have more than I would ever use, and it caps at ~500. But it is so nice knowing I have it waiting for me, and no questions asked when I want to use it. I think im going to use it to take the wife and kid on yearly trips or something like that. 
 

I could literally take months off and they wouldn’t blink as long as it doesn’t run into an inspection. 

[skinsmarydu]

I know personally what @The Sisko is talking about.  I was in an Emory hospital for 3 weeks in '19.  The hospital administrator (Akashi) kept me NPO'd for 4 straight days, despite my weight being about 70 pounds, she kept scheduling my procedures for late in the day.  I never got food for 4 days.  I swear, that b-word was trying to kill me...I was discharged at 63.7 pounds.  (We had met our insurance deductible on my first day there.)  My male nurses were the only people who gave me care, and had to push the limit to keep me alive.  It was dreadful. 

 

If those guys have debt and can get it forgiven, I'm all for it.  They saved my life. 

 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2022 by skinsmarydu
add

[purbeast]

9 hours ago, tshile said:

edit: derp

but The real reason I wanted to quote this was the how fast you accrue pto part

have never really job hopped. I parking for only my second boss in 16 years. Never considered how fast you accrue, only ever looked at caps and general “this many weeks a year”

 

bumping up accruals so they can go more often could compete (even be better) than the unlimited pto thing. 
 

id think you need a low cap. The point is to get breaks and enjoy your job that allows it, not stack a huge payout for when you leave. 

I accrue ~ 1.3 hours of PTO per day, weekends and holidays included.

 

We are also allowed to go up to negative 80 hours as well I believe.  

 

I believe our cap is like 300 hours or something but I don't have to ever worry about that since I use mine.

Edited August 26, 2022 by purbeast

[LD0506]

[Thinking Skins]

I probably shouldn't say anything in this topic in case my manager comes here, but the idea of quiet quitting is so funny because I know people who have been promoted but do the absolute least. 

 

I'm kinda SOL because if I do more it's going to be management type with which I don't want to do and wouldn't do well. But am I quiet quitting? I don't think so. I don't like to do the things like happy hours and team building activities because I don't really drink and I don't like to be seen in a relaxed environment with coworkers. I really don't want to hear their bad jokes and I don't want them to hear my thoughts outside of work. 

 

Thing is though this is all a game. There's this whole thing about the work you do and how well you do it, but there's also this thing about how well you sell yourself and how well you sell the company. And if you pitch yourself to the right person at the right time, you've got a ticket to a promotion - minimum amount of work or not. 

 

But what do I know. I'm just trying to keep my head down and hope I don't get called on to present again. 

[China]

CEO Celebrates Worker Who Sold Family Dog After He Demanded They Return to Office

 

In a virtual town hall last week, the CEO of a Utah-based digital marketing and technology company, who is forcing employees to return to the office, celebrated the sacrifice of a worker who had to sell the family dog as a result of his decisions. He also questioned the motives of those who disagreed, accusing some of quiet quitting, and waxed skeptical on the compatibility of working full time with serving as a primary caregiver to children.

The decision by Clearlink CEO James Clarke to mandate in-office work had come as a surprise to many workers, seeing as Clarke himself had said over email as recently as late October that he had “no plans” to mandate in-office work and some Clearlink employees had been hired with the understanding that the company was “remote-first.”

 

But “circumstances” had “changed,” the company told employees this month, as Clearlink, like many others, has struggled to adapt to a teetering economy and recently undergone a round of layoffs. To jumpstart the firm, Clarke sent a company-wide email on April 3 saying that people who live within 50 miles of the company’s new headquarters in Draper, Utah, would be required to come into the office four days a week, with limited exceptions, starting April 17. The decision, he wrote, was made to improve the company’s performance amid a “challenging” environment.

 

During a video meeting to explain the reasoning behind the changes, Clarke unleashed on his employees, saying he had deduced that some 30 employees had not opened their laptops for a month (the quiet quitters); wondering aloud if some remote employees were secretly working multiple jobs; and asking the company to increase productivity to “30 to 50 times our normal production” as a result of recent advances in artificial intelligence while also making reference to the “Judeo-Christian ethic” and noting, for unclear reasons, that he went to Oxford and Harvard.

All he was asking, he said, is that people come into the office and give their “blood, sweat, and tears” to the company. “I challenge any of you to outwork me, but you won’t,” he added. 

In hopes of rallying the troops, Clarke took the time to pay special attention to one employee who had sold the family dog as a result of his decision, describing it as an example of the “sacrifices that are being made” and saying it broke his heart as someone who, he claimed, has been at the “head of the humanization of pets movement.”

 

Clarke also focused on concerns that the shift would cause undue harm to people who serve as primary caregivers for their children, who would have to pay for additional childcare. The CEO expressed skepticism that single and working mothers could meet company expectations while continuing to take care of their children, saying that while “it can be done … it adds so much stress to a working mother’s life that I would never want to put on anyone.” 

 

Click on the link for the full article