The All Things 2022 OTAs/Training Camp Thread

[Darth Tater]

The one thing we are built for is a true passing game. When the Gibbs offense was rolling, we were ALWAYS a top  team in terms of yards per catch. Of the four teams that got to the conference game or better, only the 1982 team was not a top 10 passing team. In 1991, we were 26 in attempts but 5 in yards We didn't do much rassing (passing that basically is a running game replacement). We have multiple receivers that can blow the tops of defenses, a QB who can spin it and a great running game. This is the recipe for a real passing game. We may not throw much but a real passing game is not based on the number of throws but the yards made.

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

I'm not sure there's much boom here. Bust? Sure, it's easy to bust in the NFL. But Boom? There seems to be little boom to this team. The idea that Wentz is or can become some super explosive playmaker just seems like some wild fantasy. He's now entering year seven of his NFL career and has never really shown it before. I think we know who he is. Sure, anything could happen in the most literal sense. But it's not a realistic outcome in the slightest. We might be confusing basic competence with "boom" and "playmaker".

 

Wentz hasn't had a big season, yet?  

[MrJL]

28 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

I'm not sure there's much boom here. Bust? Sure, it's easy to bust in the NFL. But Boom? There seems to be little boom to this team. The idea that Wentz is or can become some super explosive playmaker just seems like some wild fantasy. He's now entering year seven of his NFL career and has never really shown it before. I think we know who he is. Sure, anything could happen in the most literal sense. But it's not a realistic outcome in the slightest. We might be confusing basic competence with "boom" and "playmaker".

 

the guy threw for 27 TDs last year.  He has one excellent receiver, two with great potential, a solid TE and should have a quality running game.  I don't think much of your idea of competence

[FootballZombie]

27 minutes ago, Jericho said:

I'm not sure there's much boom here. Bust? Sure, it's easy to bust in the NFL. But Boom? There seems to be little boom to this team. The idea that Wentz is or can become some super explosive playmaker just seems like some wild fantasy. He's now entering year seven of his NFL career and has never really shown it before. I think we know who he is. Sure, anything could happen in the most literal sense. But it's not a realistic outcome in the slightest. We might be confusing basic competence with "boom" and "playmaker".

 

I see a lot of similar things from the team-wide prospective, not just the players involved.

 

 

Our OC has never even fielded an Offense with above average passing production. There is certainly the hope that he can get it done, but that is all it is at this point. Not to say the man has not been handcuffed, but at the same time he has not proven an ability to do it either.

 

Explosive Passing O's have proven pass catchers across the board and QBs that have a history of high production numbers. We have neither. Just a ton of potential, and just like the hope with Turner, that is all it is until it is realized or is not.

 

You'd be asking a lot of parts to be combine to be something they either have not been before, or have not been in years. Amazingly unlikely.

[FLSkinz83]

Giants released Blake Martinez.   Big fan of his.   Much better player than the JAG's we have.  

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

Giants released Blake Martinez.   Big fan of his.   Much better player than the JAG's we have.  

 

Me, too.  Hopefully he's healthy.  I recall Keim saying months back that they were hoping the Giants released him but they never did -- talked about it on the FO thread at the time. 

 

 

[JSSkinz]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

If this game was at Jacksonville I would expect us to be dogs.  I believe its a much tougher game than most think it will be and who knows Wentz better than Pederson.  The Jags have young talent and if he can get them coached up they can win 7 or 8 games and become that next young emerging team.

 

Pederson is underrated IMO and I don't expect an easy game.  With that being said, we absolutely cant lose at home week 1, that would be devastating.

[Rex Tomb]

Is it Sunday the 11th yet? This has been the slowest start to the season man…

[OMacAttack]

Well one week before the first meaningful game of the year... It's close 

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

Our OC has never even fielded an Offense with above average passing production.

 

Haskisn, Kyle Allen, Peg Leg Alex, Haskins again,  Taylor Hienicke, Fitzy (16 sbaps), Taylor Hienecke again, Gilbert Grape, Hienicke again.  
 

 

[Mrshadow008]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Also it would be ignoring with what reporters saw in camp which was they went deep a lot.  Some actually thought too much. 

Also would ignore what Coach Zampese told us at the film session about having a lot of speed and bombing people out of existence. 

[Mrshadow008]

4 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Not that he did anything wrong, but if I was Zampese and had to give a briefing to holders, my presentation would be one MS powerpoint slide long and entail what I was giving to my players.

 

 

I put zero weight into stuff like that.

 

He is not walking out there to tell season ticket holders anything but what they want to hear. He did what any of us would do.

 

If somebody thinks anyone in charge of... lets say the Lions, isnt telling their Season Ticket holders anything but pleasantries in a similar venue I got some sweet locally bottled in MD Antarctic Glacier water to sell ya.

 

 

The question itself wasn’t even about the gameplan ironically. The question was in regards to what they saw in wentz to make the trade for him. For the record he also said while answering this question that they were extremely lucky “there’s a crazy *** owner in Indy who doesn’t know what he’s doing” 

[FootballZombie]

33 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Haskisn, Kyle Allen, Peg Leg Alex, Haskins again,  Taylor Hienicke, Fitzy (16 sbaps), Taylor Hienecke again, Gilbert Grape, Hienicke

 

2 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

Our OC has never even fielded an Offense with above average passing production. There is certainly the hope that he can get it done, but that is all it is at this point. Not to say the man has not been handcuffed, but at the same time he has not proven an ability to do it either.

 

 

He has not been dealt a good hand at all in that regard and I acknowledged that, but at the same time he has also never proven the ability to run such an Offensive attack at this level. Its not to say he can't, just that he never has. And that just adds a hurdle to what is already 400m hurdles race.

 

 

Its just like my non-existent guy named Jimmy who has never broken the Olympic world record for long jumping, but after a few beers swears he can totally smash it if he gets a good run start. I'm not taking that on blind faith.

Edited September 2, 2022 by FootballZombie

[MrJL]

31 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

 

 

He has not been dealt a good hand at all in that regard and I acknowledged that, but at the same time he has also never proven the ability to run such an Offensive attack at this level. Its not to say he can't, just that he never has. And that just adds a hurdle to what is already 400m hurdles race.

 

 

Its just like my non-existent guy named Jimmy who has never broken the Olympic world record for long jumping, but after a few beers swears he can totally smash it if he gets a good run start. I'm not taking that on blind faith.

 

You're failing to see that there's a difference between a guy who has never long jumped claiming he could be the greatest and a guy who's gotten to one of the highest levels of long jumping competition and not been great but still has potential to get better

[FootballZombie]

30 minutes ago, MrJL said:

You're failing to see that there's a difference between a guy who has never long jumped claiming he could be the greatest and a guy who's gotten to one of the highest levels of long jumping competition and not been great but still has potential to get better

 

That second part was a joke my dude. Not to be taken seriously.

 

And shame on you for assuming imaginary Jimmy's backstory. He coulda been All American in HS a few years back.

Edited September 2, 2022 by FootballZombie

[Jericho]

3 hours ago, MrJL said:

 

the guy threw for 27 TDs last year.  He has one excellent receiver, two with great potential, a solid TE and should have a quality running game.  I don't think much of your idea of competence

 

And? 27 TDs finished 10th in the NFL. That's middle of the road. Mind you, TDs is just one stat. Wentz was 18th in yards, one spot ahead of Taylor Heinicke. And even using just TDs (Wentz's best stat), we can see he had more than guys like Russell WIlson and Kyler Murray, QBs that I think most would rank much higher than Wentz in overall value. My biggest concern is Wentz's career high in passing yards in a season is 4,039. Which is competent. Not great. Not terrible. I think you're vastly overrating Carson Wentz. He's fine. He's decent. But he's not great. The only year he was even close to "great" was way back in 2017. And he still only threw for 3296 yards that year. Mind you he missed 3 games. But he's never been a big yardage guy. The only reason he was sniffing MVP votes was that the Eagles were good and he threw an abnormally high number of TDs. In short, he's a perfectly cromulant QB. That's not an insult, it just is.

[Conn]

4 hours ago, Jericho said:

 

I'm not sure there's much boom here. Bust? Sure, it's easy to bust in the NFL. But Boom? There seems to be little boom to this team. The idea that Wentz is or can become some super explosive playmaker just seems like some wild fantasy. He's now entering year seven of his NFL career and has never really shown it before. I think we know who he is. Sure, anything could happen in the most literal sense. But it's not a realistic outcome in the slightest. We might be confusing basic competence with "boom" and "playmaker".

what? do you think Wentz is someone else 

[Jericho]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Wentz hasn't had a big season, yet?  

 

Do you disagree? Wentz has made 1 Pro Bowl in what's now entering his 7th season. A Pro Bowler sounds decent, though making just 1 in 6 years is pretty low. Kurt Cousins has made 3. Jameis Winston has made one. Teddy Bridgewater has made one. Tyrod Taylor had made one. Mitchell Trubisky somehow made one. Andy Dalton has made 3. Alex Smith made 3. Jared Goff had made 2. Robert Griffin made one. It's a low bar. And when Wentz did make his one Pro Bowl, he threw for 3296 yards. So he's never been a guy to carry a team and be a superstar. He just hasn't. Maybe you think he'll suddenly breakout in Year 7. But there's a good chance he just is what he is. Which is fine. Just not a big season type of guy.

4 minutes ago, Conn said:

what? do you think Wentz is someone else 

 

I think Wentz is Wentz . I think many posters on this board think he is someone else. I don't see the "boom" in Wentz. I see an adequate QB. But I don't see an adequate QB leading this roster to 12 or 13 wins. Maybe if the roster were better there would be more boom potential. But sadly, it is not.

[skinny21]

4 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The only point I would make is neither Harmon nor Diyami was going to have an effect on the run game, or the pass game, because they were going to be inactive unless there were injuries.

 

Also, Reyes was hurt, wasn't he?  I think they IRed and then released him.  I seem to feel like he was just always hurt.  

 

(I say this acknowledging you are trying to help me make my case and I'm shooting holes at it, kindof, so I apologize to both you and me.) 

Oh, I hear you for sure - they’d probably both be inactive (in my hypothetical), but they’d be there in case of injury as you said.  And I think the calculus on how to handle Reyes might/would have changed if they felt they needed a plus blocker behind Bates (to ensure they could carry out a run heavy offense)… IIRC it wasn’t a long term injury?  I’m wrong a lot though.  And now I’ve spent way more time on this subject than it deserves, lol.

[LetMeSeeYourWarFace21]

 

[ExoDus84]

Just now, LetMeSeeYourWarFace21 said:

 

 

On the second play of this game, Cole Holcomb got worked over by a WR running a crosser, and gave up an easy pass for a first down.

 

Madden is getting more lifelike each year.

[srtman04]

52 minutes ago, ExoDus84 said:

 

On the second play of this game, Cole Holcomb got worked over by a WR running a crosser, and gave up an easy pass for a first down.

 

Madden is getting more lifelike each year.

 

OMG, this is probably how it will really look too.....

[Llevron]

1 hour ago, LetMeSeeYourWarFace21 said:

 

If we win the game like that I’m getting the SUPERBOWL 2022-2023 tattoo and posting it. 

[FLSkinz83]

That must be the simulation from the 2014 game.  

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, Jericho said:

 

Do you disagree? Wentz has made 1 Pro Bowl in what's now entering his 7th season. A Pro Bowler sounds decent, though making just 1 in 6 years is pretty low. Kurt Cousins has made 3. Jameis Winston has made one. Teddy Bridgewater has made one. Tyrod Taylor had made one. Mitchell Trubisky somehow made one. Andy Dalton has made 3. Alex Smith made 3. Jared Goff had made 2. Robert Griffin made one. It's a low bar. And when Wentz did make his one Pro Bowl, he threw for 3296 yards. So he's never been a guy to carry a team and be a superstar. He just hasn't. Maybe you think he'll suddenly breakout in Year 7. But there's a good chance he just is what he is. Which is fine. Just not a big season type of guy.

 

I think Wentz is Wentz . I think many posters on this board think he is someone else. I don't see the "boom" in Wentz. I see an adequate QB. But I don't see an adequate QB leading this roster to 12 or 13 wins. Maybe if the roster were better there would be more boom potential. But sadly, it is not.

 

There is no "suddenly" he will finally have a break out season narrative about Wentz.  The narrative is will he regain his elite form. or won't he.  He's been elite in one season.  And arguably very good in 2 other seasons.  2020 was a bad season for him, he had no one to throw to but he certainly didn't overcome that.

 

He was ranked as the third best player in the NFL after his 2017 season, rankings by the players, headed for an MVP season before his injury.  I watched that segment where NFL players were calling him the next Manning-Brady.

 

I like Kirk more than most people.  And he's certainly been more consistent than Wentz.  But Kirk isn't screaming with upside.  Wentz has a ton of upside.  Maybe he never rediscovers it or takes it up to the next level again.  But we can't say he's never shown it and it is what it is.

 

https://forums.colts.com/topic/69956-greg-cosell-on-carson-wentz-one-of-the-most-talented-qbs-in-the-league-last-year-was-bad-though/

 In a 2019 training camp a highly respected NFL GM told Cosell that the two most physically gifted QBs in the league were Mahomes and Wentz. "Now you can adjust that with the addition of Josh Allen or Justin Herbert, but the point I'm trying to make is - Carson Wentz is not used up goods or QB without talent I cannot speak to what's in his mind or what went on in the building in Philadelphia, but he's a talented, talented player and Frank Reich knows, we assume, how to get the best out of him". 

-there's nothing wrong with Wentz physically. He can still drive the football, he still has a big arm. I think he wants to push it down the field, I think he likes to be aggressive. Every offense has short passes, but I think Wentz at his core is an aggressive mindset guy and wants to push it downfield. 

 

 

 

Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Carson Wentz is voted the No. 3 player in the NFL by his peers on "Top 100 Players of 2018."

 

 

https://www.nj.com/eagles/2020/08/eagles-carson-wentz-is-3rd-best-quarterback-in-nfl-says-espn-analyst.html

Eagles’ Carson Wentz is 3rd-best quarterback in NFL, says ESPN analyst

• Published: Aug. 12, 2020, 11:00 a.m.

 

 

 

 

https://theeagleswire.usatoday.com/2019/12/24/eagles-carson-wentz-elite-stats-prove-it/

 

5 stats that prove Carson Wentz is elite and just starting to hit his stride as a QB

Glenn Erby 

 

December 24, 2019 8:35 am ET

 

Carson Wentz has been one of the best at his position since entering the league in 2016 and despite the heavy criticism he’s faced over the past two years, the numbers show that the Eagles star is elite and just hitting his stride.

Wentz is considered a top-10 talent, but numbers talk and the Eagles star is on a career arc that could have him in Canton when things are all said and done.The topic of conversation is sensitive for Eagles fans and Wentz pundits, but here are five stats that prove Wentz is elite and just getting started.

***

1. Wentz is making history

Despite missing eight games the last two years and with one game still to go in 2019, Wentz already has the 9th-most TD passes in NFL history by a QB in his first four seasons. He’s now fifth in team history with 96 touchdown passes and can overtake Donovan McNabb in the next four years if he stays healthy.

Wentz has 35 career interceptions.

Wentz is the only QB in NFL history to record 95+ passing touchdowns and 35-or-fewer interceptions in their first 54 career games.

Of the 10 quarterbacks currently ahead of him in touchdown passes over their first four seasons, only Russell Wilson has also thrown fewer than 44 interceptions in his first four years, and only Wilson and Dan Marino have a higher passer rating.

After Sundays win over the Cowboys, Wentz is the first quarterback in NFL history to record 30+ completions and 0 interceptions in 3 consecutive games.

 

Edited September 2, 2022 by Skinsinparadise