The All Things 2022 OTAs/Training Camp Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

34 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

i still have yet to say anything is bad. Its just not great and thats the problem that for what ever reason you seem to poo poo on every opportunity. 

 

I poo poo on every opportunity or Ron?  Confused about your point. 

[Est.1974]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Desperation?  What would be the less desperate signings for backup LB?

I don’t get you?

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, Est.1974 said:

I don’t get you?

 

You used the word desperation.  I responded?

[Est.1974]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

You used the word desperation.  I responded?

I genuinely didn’t understand the response. However no worries, debating levels of desperation probably isn’t required. It clearly can’t be a positive.

[Conn]

2 hours ago, bowhunter said:

The Kam Curl cast/sling thing is worrisome. When will we know more?

Wednesday, when they have to give an injury report 

[Llevron]

1 hour ago, FLSkinz83 said:

Why do we need both Bostic 

 

Someone has to teach these guys how to do their taxes 

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I genuinely didn’t understand the response. However no worries, debating levels of desperation probably isn’t required. It clearly can’t be a positive.

We needed a LBer and they got one. You said it looked like desperation. Sip asked what could they do that didn't look like desperation. You got confused.

 

 

[Est.1974]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

We needed a LBer and they got one. You said it looked like desperation. Sip asked what could they do that didn't look like desperation. You got confused.

 

 

Ok. So fishing for old rejects qualifies as desperate to me I guess. Less desperate would be doing a better job of recruitment in the first place. Something like that whilst trying to minimise the confusion. 

[NickyJ]

It boggles my mind that Bostic is back after we cast him out during the offseason and the Saints cast him out after the pre-season. Of all the free agent signings under Gruden and Allen, I didn't think Bostic would be the one to stick around.

[Voice_of_Reason]

17 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

So, for simplicity, let’s say they don’t use that 2 player expansion.  Are you saying they can actually dress 49 guys.  47 + 8th OL + Howell?  Howell only able to come in for injuries.  I thought the change to the 47th player was for the third QB, who could only come in in an emergency.  
 

Or are you saying you wouldn’t dress Howell, but accept the risk that if two QBs get knocked out you finish with Thomas/Rogers?

Ok, I'm going to try and summarize after reading a bunch. 

 

1. The "Normal" Gameday Active List is 47

2. If you dress an additional OL, then you can have 48.

3. 3rd QB: This was news to me: the NFL abolished the 3rd QB rule in 2011, but increased gameday roster size from 45 to 46 to compensate.  However, not all teams activate a 3rd QB on gameday. That's the coaches choice.  But you can no longer (and haven't been able to for 11 years) have an "emergency 3rd string QB."  I'll be honest, I missed that.  Here's a snipped which explains more:

 

Quote

Most analysts agree that the third quarterback rule was always needlessly complicated. In recognition of this, players and owners collectively agreed to abolish the rule starting in the 2011 season. But they didn’t get rid of the third quarterback altogether. Instead, the NFL simply increased its active game-day roster from 45 to 46 players.

 

Of course, not all teams choose to keep three quarterbacks on the roster. Instead, they use that additional roster slot for other more commonly needed positions. That said, many teams do use a third quarterback as a means of development.

 

 

4. You can elevate 2 members of your practice squad to the active roster, and then activate them on gameday.  There are rules about this, a player can only be elevated twice (I believe).  But that doesn't effect the active 47 (or 48 with the extra OL.  

 

An example of this would be if one of the ST players on the 53 was injurred, and the team wanted to bring up TRAP for his ST prowess one week, they could elevate him on Saturday night, activate him for Sunday, and then send him back to the PS on Monday.  But they still could only have either 47 or 48 total active players for the game.  

 

 

13 minutes ago, Conn said:

Wednesday, when they have to give an injury report 

I explained this with more words and flourish than you did.  So there. 

 

10 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

We needed a LBer and they got one. You said it looked like desperation. Sip asked what could they do that didn't look like desperation. You got confused.

 

 

Actually, they got two, if we're being pedantic.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

8 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Ok. So fishing for old rejects qualifies as desperate to me I guess. Less desperate would be doing a better job of recruitment in the first place. Something like that whilst trying to minimise the confusion. 

I'll grant you what they did at LB this entire off-season has been puzzling.  I would have thought they would have brought in a couple more guys to compete earlier in the off-season.

 

The only thing I can surmise is they thought they could get a guy just as good after roster cuts and just didn't bother.  

 

They want Holcomb and Davis playing.  They don't care as much about the depth there as I would. 

 

But at the same time, the guys they are currently shuffling around are roster spots 45-50, with a REALLY good chance of being inactive on gamedays.  

[FootballZombie]

Just now, NickyJ said:

It boggles my mind that Bostic is back after we cast him out during the offseason and the Saints cast him out after the pre-season. Of all the free agent signings under Gruden and Allen, I didn't think Bostic would be the one to stick around.

 

Hey, they tried to improve at the position. They let him walk and took a look at some new guys.

 

Then they realized the new guys were not very good so they chose to go back to what they had before, the same thing they chose to walk away from.

But whats important is that they tried. That is what will matter at the end of the season, right?

[Conn]

2 hours ago, Zim489 said:

It’s easily the most mid of the Dan era. It just screams 8-9 wins. I don’t see any sort of developing plan that moves this roster towards title contention. Like what’s the short term path in this years team to 2 years from now? It feels very capped out across the board. We’re not going to be in the top of the draft for a QB or the elite talent any time soon. Ron and his legion of boomers haven’t shown any acumen of being great talent evaluators. 
 

Feelsblike we’re firmly stuck in the middle for the time being

I think you have really reasonable criticisms wrapped up somewhere at the heart of most of your concerns, but the way you express them and how overboard you go drives me nuts. And I’m a negative and cynical poster here most of the time lol.
 

But this stuff is just too much. The “easily the most mid of the Dan era” thing? We’ve had bad defenses and worse offenses go .500. This is clearly the most talented offense we’ve had in ages. Best roster we’ve had in years despite the disappointing lack of moves at LB. An offense alone is enough to make you competitive in this league, it’s a start.
 

I know you’re an outrageously negative poster on Wentz, which is where a lot of this comes from. But the premise is just straight up silly. What’s the plan to be better in two years, you just don’t see it? Um how about Wentz playing well and continuing to build the roster? Pretending we know how draft picks will work out (both the picks from the last two years and upcoming drafts that have yet to happen) and where elite talent will come from is dumb. Yeah, I wish we had more studs already too. But McLaurin went from 3rd round ST’s specialist “reach” in the draft to absolutely foundational in a period of five months his rookie year. Pretending we can guess how the roster will look a year from now, nevermind two years from now, is silly. They’ll keep drafting. If Wentz shows he can play well for us this year, they’ll splurge more in FA next year to take advantage of the window.
 

And it’ll go from there, or it’ll fail miserably. That’s always on the table, I’m not even saying I think you’re definitely wrong. But you can end up 100% correct in the end and still have been a miserably over-critical poster all the way there who just happened to get the end result correct because most things bad franchises try in the NFL end up failing. Betting it’s not going to work out is always the smart bet, but the details of your concerns are way over the top imo. 

Edited September 1, 2022 by Conn

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I genuinely didn’t understand the response. However no worries, debating levels of desperation probably isn’t required. It clearly can’t be a positive.

 

OK I ran with the word you used desperate.  To me going back to Bostic and Mayo both who know this defense isn't desperate.  Desperate to me would be trading a pick for a "meh" player.

 

I don't get the consternation about the backup LBs unless we think Jamin will be "meh".  I get the logic of bringing in veteran mentor types who know the system and are known for having high intangibles-smarts to help the younger LBs.  I liked what i've heard of late about Eilfer.

 

The key to me is Jamin Davis.  If he's good and stays healthy, I think we are fine.  If not, we won't be.

 

As far as backups go, I like veteran types who know their assignments.   For example, I am not a big on certain players as starters.  But on many of them if you switch to the debate of having that dude as a backup -- i am typically fine.   Didn't love years ago Mason Foster as a starter.  But as a backup?  OK.  I am not expecting killer backups in the age of the salary cap. 

 

Typically when your backups are really good its because you drafted them or its a rotation type of spot like D line-RB, etc. LBs you can rotate but if you typically have 2 good ones who can play the run and pass, you don't do it that often.    And this defense goes with plenty of 5 D line sets with just 1 LB.  LB isn't really a big deal in this defense.  Having said that you do want 2 LBs who can play well and that's why to me that spot will rise or fall with Jamin. 

 

As I said while I like the potential of our safeties, their depth worry more because of how often we use 3 safeties and our depth is young.   The spot that worries me most depth wise is CB.

 

[Koolblue13]

 

[Jericho]

54 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

So, for simplicity, let’s say they don’t use that 2 player expansion.  Are you saying they can actually dress 49 guys.  47 + 8th OL + Howell?  Howell only able to come in for injuries.  I thought the change to the 47th player was for the third QB, who could only come in in an emergency.  
 

Or are you saying you wouldn’t dress Howell, but accept the risk that if two QBs get knocked out you finish with Thomas/Rogers?

 

No, just 48 max. There's no emergency 3 QB. That was eliminated quite a while ago. You can choose to dress three QBs if you want. Most teams do not.

[NickyJ]

There are only 3 things about Bostic that I like about him, even as a backup: #1, he's not Mason Foster. #2, he's apparently money savvy and probably won't try to defraud the league health care system like Robert McCune. #3, he's old so he'll hopefully mercifully retire himself before the team offers him another contract.

 

People are ragging on Jamin for being raw and not really ready last season. Jamin was also undeniably better than Bostic last season. I get Bostic is a backup, but if our backups are going to suck, I'd rather have a younger guy who could possibly develop into a backup who'd suck a little less.

[NewCliche21]

18 hours ago, KDawg said:

Curl isn’t the free safety.

 

Well ****, shows how much I've been in the loop.  Hopefully Coach Gruden has a plan then.

[philibusters]

One downside of having Mayo and Bostic as backups is they have the same strengths and weaknesses.  Both are okay against the run, but weak against the pass.  If you had one backup who was good against the run and one who good against the pass, you put one in run downs and one in pass downs and form a serviceable player.

[wit33]

15 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

 

 

People are ragging on Jamin for being raw and not really ready last season. Jamin was also undeniably better than Bostic last season. I get Bostic is a backup, but if our backups are going to suck, I'd rather have a younger guy who could possibly develop into a backup who'd suck a little less.

A dude lasts 8 seasons in the NFL gets a label of sucking. Wild. 
 

He knows the defense, can play either LB spot and appears to have elite intangibles. I get the angst if he was given 3 year deal or something. 
 

How do you come to the conclusion Jamin was undeniably better last season? Truly curious, I don’t really know the answer.  

[Skinsinparadise]

50 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

 

I saw that tweet, I almost posted it.  But some are so wound up about Bostic and Mayo being the backups, I didn't want to add to their angst. 

 

Personally I am ok with both as backups.

8 minutes ago, philibusters said:

One downside of having Mayo and Bostic as backups is they have the same strengths and weaknesses.  Both are okay against the run, but weak against the pass.  If you had one backup who was good against the run and one who good against the pass, you put one in run downs and one in pass downs and form a serviceable player.

 

Eilfer has the speed-weight that makes me think he's the backup LB for coverage.  

 

 

Edited September 1, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I saw that tweet, I almost posted it.  But some are so wound up about Bostic and Mayo being the backups, I didn't want to add to their angst. 

 

Personally I am ok with both as backups.

 

Eilfer has the speed-weight that makes me think he's the backup LB for coverage.

I feel better about LBer today, than I did this time last year, mostly because I knew Hudson sucked and I'm excited about Eiffer. I don't hate Mayo and know what he is. 

 

And speaking of adding to the angst, I'm enjoying wondering if KDawg smashed his computer or at least yelled at something when they announced the return of Bostic. 

 

Last year, Bostic was the MIKE, now it's Holcomb. That's an upgrade.

[Skinsinparadise]

31 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

 

People are ragging on Jamin for being raw and not really ready last season. Jamin was also undeniably better than Bostic last season. I get Bostic is a backup, but if our backups are going to suck, I'd rather have a younger guy who could possibly develop into a backup who'd suck a little less.

 

Unless I missed a cut, I gather Eilfer is that guy.  Young backups seem to be the theme in most positions. 

 

 

 

[Going Commando]

3 hours ago, Zim489 said:

It’s easily the most mid of the Dan era. It just screams 8-9 wins. I don’t see any sort of developing plan that moves this roster towards title contention. Like what’s the short term path in this years team to 2 years from now? It feels very capped out across the board. We’re not going to be in the top of the draft for a QB or the elite talent any time soon. Ron and his legion of boomers haven’t shown any acumen of being great talent evaluators. 
 

Feelsblike we’re firmly stuck in the middle for the time being

 

I disagree that this is a safe, middle of the road team.  I think it's boom or bust and that's really due to the nature of Wentz as a player.  He's either a super explosive playmaker or he kills you by either getting hurt or making back-breaking mistakes.  The offense is squarely built around an attempt to have an explosive passing game as all of our money and resources are concentrated on Wentz, the OTs, and the three good WRs.  And on defense we essentially put all of our eggs into the basket of the DL.

 

This team was built with a philosophy to score via an explosive passing offense and then let the pass rush carry the defense.  We'll see if it works.  Wentz might not be good enough any more.  The WRs might not be good enough to generate enough explosive plays.  The DL might not be good enough to consistently get home and wreck drives.  And if this build isn't good enough, then it'll eventually be time to move on from this FO and start over.  But I'd say they definitely took a shot on creating a team with a high ceiling.

[KDawg]

16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I saw that tweet, I almost posted it.  But some are so wound up about Bostic and Mayo being the backups, I didn't want to add to their angst. 

 

Personally I am ok with both as backups.

 

Eilfer has the speed-weight that makes me think he's the backup LB for coverage.  

 

 

I am going to call Colleen Wolfe right now and have her revoke her Jaguars selection!!