The All Things 2022 OTAs/Training Camp Thread

[Going Commando]

8 hours ago, Jericho said:

Do you disagree? Wentz has made 1 Pro Bowl in what's now entering his 7th season. A Pro Bowler sounds decent, though making just 1 in 6 years is pretty low. Kurt Cousins has made 3. Jameis Winston has made one. Teddy Bridgewater has made one. Tyrod Taylor had made one. Mitchell Trubisky somehow made one. Andy Dalton has made 3. Alex Smith made 3. Jared Goff had made 2. Robert Griffin made one. It's a low bar. And when Wentz did make his one Pro Bowl, he threw for 3296 yards. So he's never been a guy to carry a team and be a superstar. He just hasn't. Maybe you think he'll suddenly breakout in Year 7. But there's a good chance he just is what he is. Which is fine. Just not a big season type of guy.

 

Judging by this response, I think you might not be very familiar with Wentz as a player or, followed his career very closely.  Put it this way: you know how Justin Herbert is viewed today?  That was Wentz in 2017, except better.  He was absolutely a dominant player and a superstar then, to the point he was widely considered one of the best players in the league.  Then his career went off the rails after his knee injury and after the Eagles basically submarined his job security with Hurts.  That's a common outcome in those circumstances. But you know this huge contract that we are now paying him? He got that deal years ago when he was considered a franchise QB and one of the beat young talents at the position in the NFL.  We have definitely already seen what Wentz's ceiling looks like as a player in the NFL and it was huge.

 

I'm actually kind of surprised that a Redskins fan would forget what good Carson Wentz looked like given the way he tapdanced on us in 2017.  It was a memorable performance to say the least.

[Skinsinparadise]

The hype for the Eagles from the national media.  In another segment Simms predicted the Eagles go to the championship game.  Hopefully the hype goes to their head.

 

 

 

[Conn]

Huh. Funny how at least three of Simms’ “top-5 NFL rosters excluding QB’s” just so happen to have already been unlocked by elite QB play. Almost like it’s hard to judge a lot of rosters in today’s NFL on a level playing field until  they have a QB and you get to see what they’ve actually built. 

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

Judging by this response, I think you might not be very familiar with Wentz as a player or, followed his career very closely.  Put it this way: you know how Justin Herbert is viewed today?  That was Wentz in 2017, except better.  He was absolutely a dominant player and a superstar then, to the point he was widely considered one of the best players in the league.  Then his career went off the rails after his knee injury and after the Eagles basically submarined his job security with Hurts.  That's a common outcome in those circumstances. But you know this huge contract that we are now paying him? He got that deal years ago when he was considered a franchise QB and one of the beat young talents at the position in the NFL.  We have definitely already seen what Wentz's ceiling looks like as a player in the NFL and it was huge.

 

I'm actually kind of surprised that a Redskins fan would forget what good Carson Wentz looked like given the way he tapdanced on us in 2017.  It was a memorable performance to say the least.

I covered that Monday nighter for ES. That escape he pulled and delivered a dot was one of the most incredible things I’ve ever seen.

[philibusters]

37 minutes ago, Conn said:

Huh. Funny how at least three of Simms’ “top-5 NFL rosters excluding QB’s” just so happen to have already been unlocked by elite QB play. Almost like it’s hard to judge a lot of rosters in today’s NFL on a level playing field until  they have a QB and you get to see what they’ve actually built. 

 

I don't understand how Simms doesn't have the Browns in the top 5.

[Koolblue13]

25 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I covered that Monday nighter for ES. That escape he pulled and delivered a dot was one of the most incredible things I’ve ever seen.

I remember think about how we were screwed for the next ten years, because of him during that game.

 

Like sure, he does some outlandish head scratching stuff, but he also lets his guys go make plays.

 

I'm here for this. All of it. 

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

11 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

Its just like my non-existent guy named Jimmy who has never broken the Olympic world record for long jumping, but after a few beers swears he can totally smash it if he gets a good run start. I'm not taking that on blind faith.

I don't think it's like that at all.  I think it's more you have this talented athlete named Jimmy who keeps getting a cold right before a track meet. (As an aside, this happened to my daughter for swim for the entire winter season.  Meet was coming up on Saturday, she got a cold on Monday.  She was healthy enough to swim by the weekend, but hadn't practiced all week, and didn't feel her best.  Every single meet.)  He recovers enough to compete, and does ok, but never great.  Then, finally, he has a meet where he is healthy and unincumbered, so you are interested to see what he can do.  (And my daughter was healthy over the summer season and had a terrific season.) 

 

We have no idea what Turner can do, so I agree, it's wait and see, but I think it's unfair to say he CAN'T or HASN'T created a good offense, because I am not sure even the ghost of Bill Walsh could have taken that group of pathetic excuses for QBs and made anything out of it.  You can't make chicken salad out of chicken ****. 

[Koolblue13]

This season, he was as good as any of us have ever seen play the position. Elite. And this season, he'll have the best team around him that he's ever had and it's not close.

 

In case anyone is unsure just how elite Wentz was in his second year. Kollman breaks down his 3rd down efficiency. 

 

Edited September 2, 2022 by Koolblue13

[SkinsWmsbg]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

Judging by this response, I think you might not be very familiar with Wentz as a player or, followed his career very closely.  Put it this way: you know how Justin Herbert is viewed today?  That was Wentz in 2017, except better.  He was absolutely a dominant player and a superstar then, to the point he was widely considered one of the best players in the league.  Then his career went off the rails after his knee injury and after the Eagles basically submarined his job security with Hurts.  That's a common outcome in those circumstances. But you know this huge contract that we are now paying him? He got that deal years ago when he was considered a franchise QB and one of the beat young talents at the position in the NFL.  We have definitely already seen what Wentz's ceiling looks like as a player in the NFL and it was huge.

 

I'm actually kind of surprised that a Redskins fan would forget what good Carson Wentz looked like given the way he tapdanced on us in 2017.  It was a memorable performance to say the least.

I totally agree.

 

Even if Wentz puts up the same #s he did last year I would be very happy with that.  Other then 3 or 4 boneheaded plays they would've caused chaos in the AFC playoffs and he would still be a Colt.  As Redskin fans we are use to seeing boneheaded plays from a QB but atleast this time the ceiling for said QB is higher then any of our QB ceilings before.  It's been years since we've seen a pass first offense in DC but I think this is the year we see it.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The hype for the Eagles from the national media.  In another segment Simms predicted the Eagles go to the championship game.  Hopefully the hype goes to their head.

The national media loves Lurie, loves Roseman, and loves teams which are active in FA.  

 

They have added a lot of pieces to the defense.  

 

They have added one very good piece to the offense.

 

And now we'll see.  I think their defense should be a lot better.  The question is going to be the offense.  If Hurts progresses, they have talent, and they can run and pass, and they are going to be tough.  If he doesn't, they will have to resort to the offense they had last year.  Another year of tape, I think it will get slowed down some.  

 

But we'll see.  They are definitely going for it.  But I don't think they are as good as the Rams (assuming Stafford is healthy) or Packers, and probably not the bucs, saints and maybe Vikings (who I think are going to be pretty good.).  But we'll get to see soon.  

[Warhead36]

On paper the Eagles have a heck of a roster. But their lines are older and if Hurts doesn't develop, their two stud WRs won't really benefit much. I'm also not sold on Sirianni at all, he still gives me Jimmy Zorn vibes. If they face any sort of adversity at all they could fall apart. We'll see.

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

On paper the Eagles have a heck of a roster. But their lines are older and if Hurts doesn't develop, their two stud WRs won't really benefit much. I'm also not sold on Sirianni at all, he still gives me Jimmy Zorn vibes. If they face any sort of adversity at all they could fall apart. We'll see.

DJ Brown also has been hurt a bunch. 

 

It really all could come together for them.  

 

Or it could all fall apart.

 

That's why they play the games.  

 

If I was an Eagles fan, apart from being a giant, egotistical ****, I would be confident the defense was better, but worried they are running the entire offense back with basically one addition.  I'd have questions about that, and I would say the best expectation is they will perform about the same as it did last year.  Same as what I'm saying for our defense, I expect it to play basically the way it did in the middle of the season before injuries and COVID crippled it.  Why?  Because they didn't change anything, so I expect about the same results. 

[Skinsinparadise]

34 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The national media loves Lurie, loves Roseman, and loves teams which are active in FA.  

 

They have added a lot of pieces to the defense.  

 

They have added one very good piece to the offense.

 

And now we'll see.  I think their defense should be a lot better.  The question is going to be the offense.  If Hurts progresses, they have talent, and they can run and pass, and they are going to be tough.  If he doesn't, they will have to resort to the offense they had last year.  Another year of tape, I think it will get slowed down some.  

 

But we'll see.  They are definitely going for it.  But I don't think they are as good as the Rams (assuming Stafford is healthy) or Packers, and probably not the bucs, saints and maybe Vikings (who I think are going to be pretty good.).  But we'll get to see soon.  

 

Reading some of their clippings feels like their strategy is run with the cheap QB theory -- either Hurts if he works out or if he doesn't use their multiple first rounders to take a rookie QB next draft -- stack the roster and roll the dice.

 

On paper their defense is stacked.  Some say they have the best O line in the league.  

 

Reading some clippings I get the vibe they are feeling their hype and if so hopefully that does them in. 

[Koolblue13]

Eagles tried to trade for Trey Sermon 2 weeks ago and the 9ers said no. This morning hey picked him up off of waivers. 

 

Sometimes, things just come together for you. I feel like that about our team landing Wentz, too.

[zCommander]

8 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Eagles tried to trade for Trey Sermon 2 weeks ago and the 9ers said no. This morning hey picked him up off of waivers. 

 

Sometimes, things just come together for you. I feel like that about our team landing Wentz, too.

 

We picked up Wentz on waivers too?

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

We picked up Wentz on waivers too?

The point of my post sailed over you like a Heinicke screen pass.

[zCommander]

20 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

The point of my post sailed over you like a Heinicke screen pass.

 

You talk about someone not getting traded and picked up on waivers instead then you say everything comes together like Wentz deal. 

 

There was no coming together for Wentz when the team had no choice left. Paid a lot to get him too. So your point really doesn't even apply to Wentz and how he was acquired. 

 

Your points don't sail over me. Your points are all rah rah rah even though Wentz hasn't even played his first regular season game yet.

 

You go ahead and count your chickens before they are hatched. I will wait until end of the season and see how things turns out for Wentz and this team. 

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, zCommander said:

 

You talk about someone not getting traded and picked up on waivers instead then you say everything comes together like Wentz deal. 

 

There was no coming together for Wentz when the team had no choice left. Paid a lot to get him too. So your point really doesn't even apply to Wentz and how he was acquired. 

 

Your points don't sail over me. Your points are all rah rah rah even though Wentz hasn't even played his first regular season game yet.

 

You go ahead and count your chickens before they are hatched. I will wait until end of the season and see how things turns out for Wentz and this team. 

So sensitive. I think Wentz is a good QB and us landing him was the best case scenario for our team. That's the point I made.

 

Wentz at worst is the best QB since Kurt. Wentz at best might be the best we've had.

 

Your post just tripped at the goal line, before leaping into your feelings. 

[srtman04]

2 hours ago, SkinsWmsbg said:

I totally agree.

 

Even if Wentz puts up the same #s he did last year I would be very happy with that.  Other then 3 or 4 boneheaded plays they would've caused chaos in the AFC playoffs and he would still be a Colt.  As Redskin fans we are use to seeing boneheaded plays from a QB but atleast this time the ceiling for said QB is higher then any of our QB ceilings before.  It's been years since we've seen a pass first offense in DC but I think this is the year we see it.

 

Yep, last pass first offense I saw was when Cousins was here.   Looking forward to seeing that again.  

[Chris 44]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

This season, he was as good as any of us have ever seen play the position. Elite. And this season, he'll have the best team around him that he's ever had and it's not close.

 

In case anyone is unsure just how elite Wentz was in his second year. Kollman breaks down his 3rd down efficiency. 

 

You think he has better talent around him now than during 2017? Not being snarky, you know more about that team than most around here, I just dont know.

[bird_1972]

7 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

You think he has better talent around him now than during 2017? Not being snarky, you know more about that team than most around here, I just dont know.

 

Yeah, I'm not sure I agree with the take that the talent on this roster is demonstrably better than Eagles in 2017. That said, I do think Wentz will hopefully unlock another 1-2 W on his own just from better QB play. Even if he doesn't end up as a top-15 QB in the league.

[FootballZombie]

2 minutes ago, bird_1972 said:

Yeah, I'm not sure I agree with the take that the talent on this roster is demonstrably better than Eagles in 2017. That said, I do think Wentz will hopefully unlock another 1-2 W on his own just from better QB play. Even if he doesn't end up as a top-15 QB in the league.

 

You can piece meal it that parts of our roster are better, but in no way shape or form is our roster better than one that won a Super Bowl. Double that when they won a Super Bowl without their starting QB. The idea that we are overall better than that is silly.

[Koolblue13]

12 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

You think he has better talent around him now than during 2017? Not being snarky, you know more about that team than most around here, I just dont know.

I think Terry is better than Jefferies and Ertz is a push to Thomas. Dot and Curtis will be a much better 2&3. Bates and Turner a much better 2&3. McKissic, Gibson, BRob a better back field. Their Oline was insanely good, but not that much better than how ours played last year.

 

Yes, I think our offense is about as stacked as it possibly can be, with depth across the board and better than the 17 Eagles team.

[skinsfan93]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

This season, he was as good as any of us have ever seen play the position. Elite. And this season, he'll have the best team around him that he's ever had and it's not close.

 

In case anyone is unsure just how elite Wentz was in his second year. Kollman breaks down his 3rd down efficiency. 

 

The first few plays is the problem with Carson. In his first couple years there were so many plays where the play would break down and Carson would ad-lib. As a young player, he was quick, spry and would make these incredible plays. He continued that type of quarterbacking in his years with the Eagles until those plays started producing turnovers. His shtick became old, he started getting hurt and he always believed he could make that improbable play. 
 

What I want to see from him is stay in the pocket, if his first few reads aren’t there then throw the ball away and limit turnovers. We just need him to be consistent, not Josh Allen like. 

[zCommander]

26 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

So sensitive. I think Wentz is a good QB and us landing him was the best case scenario for our team. That's the point I made.

 

Wentz at worst is the best QB since Kurt. Wentz at best might be the best we've had.

 

Your post just tripped at the goal line, before leaping into your feelings. 

 

You tripped on a bad example is what I was saying. We didn't pickup Wentz on waivers because your 1st sentence was about a player who got picked up on waivers instead when that team offered them a trade for the same player instead. 

 

Now if the Colts had rejected our offer and then cut Wentz and we were the one who picked him up instead of another team then your point would have made more sense. 

 

Your example of things coming together like the cosmos was a reach at best.