The All Things 2022 OTAs/Training Camp Thread

[KDawg]

50 minutes ago, Wyvern said:

From the games I viewed, the D-line did not play well as a unit. In particular the starting defensive ends seemed more intent in getting their sack, by whatever route possible and often failed to set their edge.  Consequently The opposing QB would roll out into the area that was supposed to be covered by the over-eager DE, and have more time to find an open target.

 

I think ex-coach Sam Mills III wasn't able to get his D-Line to play as a unit, nor was he helping Young to develop more rushing moves, beyond what he'd shown in college..  It's too bad Mills was the guy entrusted with developing this group of four 1st round picks, because they really underperformed against many teams in the 2021 season.  I hope the new coaching will help to fix this issue.

It’s hard to blame one guy. It happens in sports, but Mills is a scapegoat here just as much as he is responsible.

 

The thing with our DL is that everyone is correct: they are extremely talented. But it’s a poorly constructed unit. The pieces don’t complete a puzzle, they leave an unfinished puzzle. They are beautiful pieces though. Pristine edges, high quality images. But when we try to put them together they just don’t fit.

 

Mills will get the blame for that as the coach but often times the players will cause a rift with a coach if they are unsuccessful to pass blame elsewhere. The same can occur vice versa as well in other situations.

 

Young and Sweat have had no desire to do their jobs and set an edge. They rush too far upfield and open vertical gaps. Payne and Allen were better at doing their jobs but with them not flying downfield and Chase and Sweat flying down field you create an issue. That happens on run plays, too. Opposing offenses use their own down/distance tendencies to get those guys flying up field in what is generally a pass situation and there are many rush yards to be had on the ground. 
 

Ioannidis, despite being a fan favorite here, also was a “overpenetrate to get a sack stat” guy. He was excellent at what he did. But the line looked better with them because more guys were doing that, which left less open run through lanes. But that also allowed them to get gashed against the run. 
 

Now they are attempting to fix that. Kerrigan has their respect already, they will listen to him. He and the new DL coach have their work cut out for them, though. 
 

Being honest I think having both Young and Sweat on our roster is going to be more detriment than positive. One or the other. Having one doing that allows you to compensate. Having two is a major issue. 

[@DCGoldPants]

50 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said:

I know power rankings in and of themselves are a joke but I swear this has to be a parody even the most negative on this board wouldn’t have us as the third worst team in the league. Meanwhile Dallas minus 3 starting o lineman from last season and 1 starting wr with an nfl td to their name is at 15. Sheesh. 

 

I think it's possible. For the past few years we heard that Scott Turner was held back by talent. What if he's simply not a good OC? We know Del Rio WAS a good DC at one time. But that doesn't mean he still is, or his schemes just don't work as well anymore. Preseason wasn't pretty for either side of the ball. Drops on offense and LBs/DBs out of position on defense.

 

So.... fingers crossed they take a step forward this year. But I wouldn't be surprised if they are bottom 3. Or maybe just bottom 5.

[MisterPinstripe]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

It’s hard to blame one guy. It happens in sports, but Mills is a scapegoat here just as much as he is responsible.

 

The thing with our DL is that everyone is correct: they are extremely talented. But it’s a poorly constructed unit. The pieces don’t complete a puzzle, they leave an unfinished puzzle. They are beautiful pieces though. Pristine edges, high quality images. But when we try to put them together they just don’t fit.

 

Mills will get the blame for that as the coach but often times the players will cause a rift with a coach if they are unsuccessful to pass blame elsewhere. The same can occur vice versa as well in other situations.

 

Young and Sweat have had no desire to do their jobs and set an edge. They rush too far upfield and open vertical gaps. Payne and Allen were better at doing their jobs but with them not flying downfield and Chase and Sweat flying down field you create an issue. That happens on run plays, too. Opposing offenses use their own down/distance tendencies to get those guys flying up field in what is generally a pass situation and there are many rush yards to be had on the ground. 
 

Ioannidis, despite being a fan favorite here, also was a “overpenetrate to get a sack stat” guy. He was excellent at what he did. But the line looked better with them because more guys were doing that, which left less open run through lanes. But that also allowed them to get gashed against the run. 
 

Now they are attempting to fix that. Kerrigan has their respect already, they will listen to him. He and the new DL coach have their work cut out for them, though. 
 

Being honest I think having both Young and Sweat on our roster is going to be more detriment than positive. One or the other. Having one doing that allows you to compensate. Having two is a major issue. 

Yeah its a problem. They won't do it, but if guys aren't listening and are hurting the team they need to be benched even if their last name is Sweat or Young. Maybe that would get it into their head to play how they are supposed. 

[CommanderCarson]

Bottom 3 is dumb and is nothing more than a pile on effort. They drafted 13th last year, had 7 wins, and likely at least one or two more if not for the Covid massacre. 
 

We stabilize the QB position, bring in Dotson Robinson and Mathis who all look like they belong, plus the maturation of last year’s draft class with Jamin being the most important, and we are somehow that much worse? Bottom 3 means we win 4 less games than the last two years. I mean why would that be a rational thing to predict?

 

Post it on the bulletin Ron. 

 

 

[skinsfan93]

Watching all the NFL preview shows both fantasy and not, I’m amazed how EVERYONE thinks Carson is downright awful! I just don’t get it. Sure he didn’t play well the last couple games of last year but cmon analysts are acting like he played in Siberia last year. His numbers from last year are almost identical to 2019 except a higher qb rating and more tds and passing yards with a slightly lower qb rating in 2018 when he signed his extension. 
 

I live in the Philly area and all my friends who are Eagles fans will say they would have never won the Superbowl without Wentz. Sure Foles had a terrific run in the playoffs but if he started all year they would have never made the playoffs. 

I actually like the doubters because I prefer the underdog role. Bring on the Jags and let’s get this started!

 

[Thinking Skins]

Didnt know where to post this but thought it was an interesting analysis of Lawrence.

 

Did Jacksonville fire the wrong person? Former NFL scout still blames Trevor Lawrence

 

by Daniel KellyDecember 16, 2021

 

Trevor Lawrence has been horrible this year. Is that because of Urban Meyer? Or is that because they made a mistake with the first overall pick?

Trevor Lawrence is amongst the lowest rated quarterbacks in the NFL, and he has made himself even less of a desired starter this season.

 

If anyone thinks Urban Meyer was the problem in Jacksonville, they don’t know football.

 

Fanfield.io

Lawrence has had the lowest average-yards-per-completion of any starter in the NFL this season (5.7 yards). Translation = Lawrence can not push the ball downfield with any consistency.

 

 

 

Pre-draft, I said he would struggle in the NFL because he could not throw intermediate timing routes (click here to see article).

 

At Clemson, he tended to throw ball at the intermediate route level when the receivers had already made their breaks or once they were open. A quarterback can’t do that in the NFL. Quarterbacks have to be able to throw the ball before receivers break off the route, or else they will throw a lot of interceptions.

 

This is why Lawrence is tied for throwing the most interceptions in the league (14) this season. To put this in perspective, Zach Wilson (who I said would be an interception machine in the NFL pre-draft), has thrown 11.

 

 

All the drama surrounding Meyer, who has fired, is a very convenient smokescreen for Lawrence. Meyer is a very easy scapegoat for Lawrence supporters to point at. Now for yet another off-season, we all get to hear all this hogwash that Lawrence is still this elite talent who just “needs the right coach.”

 

I am not so sure Jacksonville will be able to lure in some hot big-name offensive coordinator who wants this job. It is going to take Jacksonville (a team that has won 13 games combined in the last four seasons) years to build a decent roster to surround any quarterback with. Not to mention, if any Jaguars’ head coaching candidate turns on the tape and watches Lawrence against NFL defenses, that coach will see taking the job will be career suicide. It’s a plunge that Eric Bieniemy, Josh McDaniels, Kellen Moore or Byron Leftwich will not make.

 

Rams are extremely healthy heading into Thursday’s showdown with the Buffalo Bills

Beyond all the hype and the golden parachute contract, the games will still need to be played. Not only has Lawrence been a disaster under center for Jacksonville this season on the field, but he has shown how openly critical he can be of coaching as well off the field. A quarterback who has played as poorly as Lawrence at the very least, should be humbly trying to learn the game with his mouth shut. Most quarterbacks would be humbled turning in poor performances week in and week out, but not Lawrence. No, Lawrence has publicly questioned play-calling and personnel decisions on top of it. Plus, he has been a vocal catalyst on getting Meyer fired talking about the drama that has surrounded Meyer and how it needed to end. Lawrence came out earlier this season and commented on a play-call on a short yardage situation, and he was very vocal about saying running back James Robinson is a “hell of a football player so I want him out there,” after Meyer had benched him (click here to see article).

 

 

While such insubordination is maybe cute with a proven signal caller like Aaron Rodgers, it sounds asinine coming from someone as unaccomplished in the NFL as Lawrence.

 

 

So now, not only will whoever in Jacksonville have to deal with a lack of talent on the second worst team in league, but they will have to deal with an outspoken erratic quarterback with a tendency to become insubordinate and run a coach off if things don’t go his way (who also came out in Sports Illustrated pre-draft and basically said he doesn’t give a damn if he wins or loses).

 

They will also have to deal with a quarterback who brings a very herky-jerky rhythm to the offense and a guy who has not developed any chemistry whatsoever with any of his receivers.

 

There is a reason why I was the only voice in America saying Trevor Lawrence was going to be a bust in the NFL (pre-draft). There is also a reason why I put a 90 percent bust rate on Trevor Lawrence.

 

That is because I could see it.

 

My only question is, how long is it going to take for everyone else to be able to see it?

 

Daniel Kelly is a former NFL scout with the New York Jets. He was hired on the regime which featured Bill Parcells, Bill Belichick, Scott Pioli, Mike Tannenbaum, and Dick Haley. He currently writes for Sports Illustrated Detroit Lions, Sports Illustrated New York Jets and he is a contributing evaluator for Draft Diamonds. For more information about him visit his website at whateverittakesbook.com. He can be followed on Twitter @danielkellybook and his Facebook page is WHATEVER IT TAKES NFL TALK.

[samy316]

2 hours ago, skinsfan93 said:

Watching all the NFL preview shows both fantasy and not, I’m amazed how EVERYONE thinks Carson is downright awful! I just don’t get it. Sure he didn’t play well the last couple games of last year but cmon analysts are acting like he played in Siberia last year. His numbers from last year are almost identical to 2019 except a higher qb rating and more tds and passing yards with a slightly lower qb rating in 2018 when he signed his extension. 
 

I live in the Philly area and all my friends who are Eagles fans will say they would have never won the Superbowl without Wentz. Sure Foles had a terrific run in the playoffs but if he started all year they would have never made the playoffs. 

I actually like the doubters because I prefer the underdog role. Bring on the Jags and let’s get this started!

 

No one will ever give this team the benefit of the doubt, and to be honest, why should they?  Very few moves under Snyder’s ownership have ever worked out.  If I were a a betting man, I bet that this move for Wentz won’t work out either.  Until I see it, I don’t have any reason to believe that it will work.

 

On the positive side, this team seems to perform beyond expectations, when there are no expectations, so maybe there’s something to go on.

[Warhead36]

Lawrence was bad last year but he wasn't like awful bad. He was just typical rookie bad. He was hyped as a #1 pick but he's not a freak athlete type like Newton or Murray(or even RG3)which means he'll need to develop some.

 

Meyer was just abysmal though. I'm one of those that feel like coaches often get too much blame but one could argue Meyer didn't get enough. He was THAT bad. He made Jim Zorn look like Billy Bellicheck. 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Warhead36

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

22 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Lawrence was bad last year but he wasn't like awful bad. He was just typical rookie bad. He was hyped as a #1 pick but he's not a freak athlete type like Newton or Murray(or even RG3)which means he'll need to develop some.

 

Meyer was just abysmal though. I'm one of those that feel like coaches often get too much blame but one could argue Meyer didn't get enough. He was THAT bad. He made Jim Zorn look like Billy Bellicheck. 

 

Didn't Meyer physically attack and deliberately re-injure his kicker to "prove a point to the rest of the roster"? He's up there with worst coaches of all time. Spurrier was absolutely pathetic, and probably cared even less than Meyer did, but he didn't do psychotic things.

[@DCGoldPants]

1 minute ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

Didn't Meyer physically attack and deliberately re-injure his kicker to "prove a point to the rest of the roster"? He's up there with worst coaches of all time. Spurrier was absolutely pathetic, and probably cared even less than Meyer did, but he didn't do psychotic things.

 

Meyer sounds like a POS. Didn't he go off on his coaches that they were the losers while he wasn't. 

[SkinsFTW]

I liked how the guy criticizing Lawrence said that no reputable OC would take the Jax job. Then a SB winning Head Coach/former Andy Reid OC actually took the job

[skinsfan93]

2 hours ago, samy316 said:

No one will ever give this team the benefit of the doubt, and to be honest, why should they?  Very few moves under Snyder’s ownership have ever worked out.  If I were a a betting man, I bet that this move for Wentz won’t work out either.  Until I see it, I don’t have any reason to believe that it will work.

 

On the positive side, this team seems to perform beyond expectations, when there are no expectations, so maybe there’s something to go on.

There’s a difference between giving the benefit of the doubt and predicting that we will be fighting for the first overall pick. We won 7 games the last 2 years one with a one legged qb and the other with a former xfl backup qb. Sure our past history the last 30 years hasn’t been great but my point is the hate on Carson, not so much the team. 
 

You could say Irsay hates Carson but it’s like the rest of the league does too. Just doesn’t make sense. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

SHBURN - It's possible no team in the NFL has more on the line Sunday than the Washington Commanders.

After two nameless years, the franchise is making a big push to get fans back to FedEx Field for the Commanders era. The team is selling itself as a legit playoff contender behind new quarterback Carson Wentz, in coach Ron Rivera's third year.

The league even gifted Washington the perfect opening-week opponent, the lowly Jacksonville Jaguars, who are coming off their fourth-consecutive last-place finish in their division and have won 4 of their last 33 games.

And yet, a look at the betting line shows Washington is only a three-point favorite on Sunday.

 

What in the name of Mark Brunell is going on here?

Point spreads hinge on a number of factors, but conventional wisdom holds that the home team gets about a three-point edge for hosting the game, and with Jacksonville's relatively small fanbase, there seems to be no reason to believe there will be any kind of teal takeover on Sunday afternoon.

 

 

 

 

That means oddsmakers believe these teams would be about 50-50 on a neutral field.

One reason for the pessimism can be found in Rivera's past.

Rivera is a notoriously slow starter. His teams are 36-44-1 in September and October games, then pick up the pace with a 51-39 record in November and December.

 

 

It's possible this year is different, with the core of the roster essentially remaining unchanged from last year, allowing for greater continuity. But Rivera also runs a player-centric training camp. While other teams do full-contact tackling drills or run plays on multiple fields to maximize reps, Rivera does neither, prioritizing the health of his players over the type of intense drills that seem to be losing favor in the football world.

It's also possible this year is different for the Jaguars. They have a new coach, Doug Pederson, and Rivera talked up the importance of the opener for Peterson as he seeks to set the tone.

 

"Their outlook and their approach will be different," Rivera said. "They'll be doing like we did a couple years ago, and that's trying to get away from who they've been. Doug will do his best to get those guys headed in the right direction.

 

"I anticipate that there will be a little bit of a flair to the way they do things on offense, defense, and special teams."

Pederson is also familiar with Wentz, having coached him in Philadelphia.

Wentz, meanwhile, is familiar with the Jaguars. Last year Wentz's Indianapolis Colts just needed to defeat the Jaguars to make the playoffs, but lost in one of the most forgettable games of Wentz's career.

Wentz has downplayed the storyline of facing them in his first game in Washington, but with the fanbase waiting to see whether it's time to believe, a strong showing would go a long way on Sunday.

 

Then there's this - the National Football Post took a look at coaches making their debuts with a new team from 1993-2013. Generally they did poorly, with an overall losing record.

 

But there was one subset of coaches who did significantly better than expected: road underdogs, who won at an improbable 56% clip.

That's Pederson and the Jaguars on Sunday, a game that on paper seems to easily favor Washington, but has drawn skepticism from all corners of the betting world.

 

 

 

[FootballZombie]

Man, I can't remember a week 1 game of such import.

 

-Need it for the rebrand

-Revenge game for our QB

-Need it to have hope for fan attendance down the road

-Need it to avoid embarrassment against the worst team in the NFL last year

-Need it to help propel the new stadium deal

-Need it as a shield to hide behind off season drama

 

 

Simply gotta have it. I don't even wanna imagine a world where we don't get it.

I don't care if Ron has to make diving tackles from the sidelines.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Is this actually real? That camp took place early June and I don't see Chase Young in this photo below.

 

 

[Bifflog]

3 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

Is this actually real? That camp took place early June and I don't see Chase Young in this photo below.

 

 

 

Dunno how good this guy is for breaking news...

 

 

[FLSkinz83]

https://www.si.com/nfl/commanders/news/washington-defensive-end-chase-young-von-miller-buffalo-bills-workout-denver-broncos-la-rams

[Cooleyfan1993]

8 minutes ago, Bifflog said:

 

Dunno how good this guy is for breaking news...

 

 

Plus, his twitter bio says he’s been covering the NFL/Cardinals for 28 years. Yeah, no way he’d know any of that **** 😂

[SkinsFTW]

Well, he is posting from the future so we really don't know what he might know.

Edited September 7, 2022 by SkinsFTW

[Cooleyfan1993]

32 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

Man, I can't remember a week 1 game of such import.

 

-Need it for the rebrand

-Revenge game for our QB

-Need it to have hope for fan attendance down the road

-Need it to avoid embarrassment against the worst team in the NFL last year

-Need it to help propel the new stadium deal

-Need it as a shield to hide behind off season drama

 

 

Simply gotta have it. I don't even wanna imagine a world where we don't get it.

I don't care if Ron has to make diving tackles from the sidelines.

 

 

Yep. If we somehow lose Sunday, I don’t think I’ll even want to be on here for at least a week, or even watch/read ANY sports news 😂 

 

I might even be secretly ok with it if Rivera pulled a Tomlin on the sideline  

[Skinsinparadise]

Don't know much of the source I posted aside from he has a lot of followers

 

 

 

[Mrshadow008]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Don't know much of the source I posted aside from he has a lot of followers

 

 

 

I’ll trust jp on this 

Edited September 7, 2022 by Mrshadow008

[Cooleyfan1993]

3 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

Well, he is posting from the future so we really don't know what he might know.

Ok, if that’s a joke, I admit I don’t quite understand….posting from the future?? 
 

you don’t think todays September 5th, do you? Because that would explain why you say that  

[SkinsFTW]

Just now, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Ok, if that’s a joke, I admit I don’t quite understand….posting from the future?? 
 

you don’t think todays September 5th, do you? Because that would explain why you say that  

Yeah, I quoted the wrong post, the one earlier said Sept 7.