The All Things 2022 OTAs/Training Camp Thread

[Koolblue13]

11 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

You tripped on a bad example is what I was saying. We didn't pickup Wentz on waivers because your 1st sentence was about a player who got picked up on waivers instead when that team offered them a trade for the same player instead. 

 

Now if the Colts had rejected our offer and then cut Wentz and we were the one who picked him up instead of another team then your point would have made more sense. 

 

Your example of things coming together like the cosmos was a reach at best. 

I wasn't saying that we got Wentz off waivers gotdangtit.  I was saying the way it unfolded was a lucky break for us. 

14 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

You can piece meal it that parts of our roster are better, but in no way shape or form is our roster better than one that won a Super Bowl. Double that when they won a Super Bowl without their starting QB. The idea that we are overall better than that is silly.

Algolor, Jeffries, Torrey Smith, Ertz, Blount vs Terry, Dot, Samuels, Thomas, Gibby

 

It's silly to say that our group isn't better?

 

Ajayi vs McKissic?

Celeck vs Bates?

 

You're bonkers if you don't think our roster is better.

 

Edited September 2, 2022 by Koolblue13

[zCommander]

4 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I wasn't saying that we got Wentz off waivers gotdangtit.  I was saying the way it unfolded was a lucky break for us. 

 

Except there was no luck involved. We went after Wentz when the other two QBs were not going to come here. He was the only choice left. This is all I am trying to say. 

[HigSkin]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

This season, he was as good as any of us have ever seen play the position. Elite. And this season, he'll have the best team around him that he's ever had and it's not close.

 

In case anyone is unsure just how elite Wentz was in his second year. Kollman breaks down his 3rd down efficiency. 

 

After watching this a few take aways - not sure whether it was the Eagles oline at that time or Carson holding on too long but the line looked meh.  The dude is definitely houdini and really was throwing in to some traffic.  Overall that was a great review from that year.

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, zCommander said:

 

Except there was no luck involved. We went after Wentz when the other two QBs were not going to come here. He was the only choice left. This is all I am trying to say. 

Trubisky, Baker, Marriota, Jimmy are all QBs who could have come in because they're better than Heini.

 

I didn't want Russel or Stafford and definitely not Kyler, but they turned us down, Luck turned us down.

 

We reached out to 40 QBs. 40. If covid didn't create issues with Wentz and Irsay, there is no way that Wentz ends up[ being available after they traded a 1&3 for him that year.

 

A ton of different things happened for Wentz to be the QB here. I think it's lucky.

2 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

After watching this a few take aways - not sure whether it was the Eagles oline at that time or Carson holding on too long but the line looked meh.  The dude is definitely houdini and really was throwing in to some traffic.  Overall that was a great review from that year.

Check out the Brett Kollman video. He highlights some insane throws that he can make.

[HigSkin]

 

[Captain James]

13 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

That second part was a joke my dude. Not to be taken seriously.

 

And shame on you for assuming imaginary Jimmy's backstory. He coulda been All American in HS a few years back.

Actual Jimmy:

13 hours ago, LetMeSeeYourWarFace21 said:

 

First play of the game looked about right for our DL... 😏

[zCommander]

25 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Trubisky, Baker, Marriota, Jimmy are all QBs who could have come in because they're better than Heini.

 

A ton of different things happened for Wentz to be the QB here. I think it's lucky.

 

Better as in arm strength but not actually better in QB play. Jimmy had a broken arm and no one was going to go after him. Just say no to Turbs. Baker I would have considered but was broken with his character issues and Ron was not going to have that, but I did like Mariota over the others though.

 

I don't think any other team were willing to pickup Wentz's 28 mil guarantee like we did. This is what you have to do when your back is against the wall. Now we can change that to luck with the weapons we have on offense for Wentz. He will need to take advantage of that though. 

 

Edited September 2, 2022 by zCommander

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, zCommander said:

 

Better as in arm strength but not actually better in QB play. Jimmy had a broken arm and no one was going to go after him. Just say no to Turbs. Baker I would have considered but was broken with his character issues and Ron was not going to have that, but I did like Mariota over the others though.

 

I don't think any other team were willing to pickup Wentz's 28 mil guarantee like we did. This is what you have to do when your back is against the wall. Now we can change that to luck with the weapons we have on offense for Wentz. He will have need to take advantage of that though. 

Okay champ. Good talk.

[Going Commando]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

I covered that Monday nighter for ES. That escape he pulled and delivered a dot was one of the most incredible things I’ve ever seen.

 

I remember that game too because it's when it finally set in for me that I was in denial about how good he was.  We were doing alright at the line of scrimmage but we just couldn't stop him.  I remember thinking the Eagles were going to be a problem for years, and then he tore his knee up and it went sideways.

 

 

But I also remember Get Up! segments where they show clips of Wentz getting injured diving head first into goal line traffic and Ryan Clark begging him to just take the lay ups and be aware of his importance to his offense.

 

Wentz is a backyard football player.  It's in his nature as a player to want to string plays out and throw the ball downfield and scramble through the big bodies.  Feels like your season is always on the brink with him but he is a highly physically gifted player.

 

I am glad we have him and I'm also glad that we have two other QBs I like behind him.

[NeverSurrender]

3 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

The point of my post sailed over you like a Heinicke screen pass.

Heinicke does not have the arm to "sail" any pass.  So basically your post landed 10 feet in front of him. 

[Koolblue13]

19 minutes ago, NeverSurrender said:

Heinicke does not have the arm to "sail" any pass.  So basically your post landed 10 feet in front of him. 

I know this comment is later than a Heinie 10 yard out pass, but that's why I said screen. 

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

I remember that game too because it's when it finally set in for me that I was in denial about how good he was.  We were doing alright at the line of scrimmage but we just couldn't stop him.  I remember thinking the Eagles were going to be a problem for years, and then he tore his knee up and it went sideways.

 

 

But I also remember Get Up! segments where they show clips of Wentz getting injured diving head first into goal line traffic and Ryan Clark begging him to just take the lay ups and be aware of his importance to his offense.

 

Wentz is a backyard football player.  It's in his nature as a player to want to string plays out and throw the ball downfield and scramble through the big bodies.  Feels like your season is always on the brink with him but he is a highly physically gifted player.

 

I am glad we have him and I'm also glad that we have two other QBs I like behind him.

That first TD pass at the 30 mark. Hoooo leeee ****! 65+ yards in the air and hits him in stride. That's amazing. Not too many QBs making a pass like that.

 

The one thing I notice about watching his 17 highlights is, he is having a lot of fun. Doesn't look like he's at work. Hopefully he gets back to that this year.

[wit33]

 

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

That first TD pass at the 30 mark. Hoooo leeee ****! 65+ yards in the air and hits him in stride. That's amazing. Not too many QBs making a pass like that.

 

The one thing I notice about watching his 17 highlights is, he is having a lot of fun. Doesn't look like he's at work. Hopefully he gets back to that this year.

 

Certainly doesn’t appear to be worried about managing a game. Normal folk will say he must scale it back and revert to the norm, but the special talents fight this current to the end. It seems the current has reverted him to the mean and he’s played average football as a result (imagine that). 
 

Put the cape back on, Wentz. 

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, wit33 said:

 

 

Certainly doesn’t appear to be worried about managing a game. Normal folk will say he must scale it back and revert to the norm, but the special talents fight this current to the end. It seems the current has reverted him to the mean and he’s played average football as a result (imagine that). 
 

Put the cape back on, Wentz. 

I can not wait to see him with Terry, Dot and Samuel instead of Jeffries, Algolor and nobody. 

 

We have blazing fast speed on this team and a QB that can make every single throw. I've been thinking about it all morning, ever since someone said the 17 Eagles had better talent than we do right now.

[Warhead36]

I'd take our WRs over the Eagles 2017 WRs(although Jeffrey was fantastic) but they had a dominant OL and a really good TE in Ertz(think they also had Celek that year as a solid #2). And a great run game with Ajayi. 

 

I don't think our offense compares to that one just yet.

[HigSkin]

 

[Zim489]

Either on our team or out of the league. 

 

[Malapropismic Depository]

We seem to keep bringing Mayo back.

I assume it's because Mayo is good against the Spread Offense

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

We seem to keep bringing Mayo back.

I assume it's because Mayo is good against the Spread Offense

Oh, that’s a good one.  

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I'd take our WRs over the Eagles 2017 WRs(although Jeffrey was fantastic) but they had a dominant OL and a really good TE in Ertz(think they also had Celek that year as a solid #2). And a great run game with Ajayi. 

 

I don't think our offense compares to that one just yet.

The potential might be there.  But it hasn’t materialized yet.  

[Koolblue13]

13 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Oh, that’s a good one.  

The potential might be there.  But it hasn’t materialized yet.  

You're saying that nelson algahlor is proven better than curtis samuel?

[Going Commando]

The 17 Eagles dominated the trenches.  That's where they are clearly better than us.  Our offensive skill players are better than theirs were, but we don't have anyone on our line who is close to as good as Lane Johnson, Jason Kelce, and Brandon Brooks were.

[Going Commando]

The other big thing about the 17 Eagles is they had a lot of depth.  16 players with 7 AV or more that season is a ton.  That's almost no weak links among your starters and key rotation players.  I doubt we can match that, and on top of that they got dominant play from the right side of their OL and an MVP season from their QB.  The formula for a championship, and I don't think we are there yet. We need another off-season to acquire more talent and we need Wentz to have a renaissance here.

[Going Commando]

I'm going to speculate on who could be a 7+ AV player for us this season, 7 AV being my loose cutoff for "good starter or key rotation player who had a good season."

 

QB

Wentz - definitely, he got 14 last season

 

RB

Gibson - yeah, he got 8 last season

Robinson - probably not this year

McKissic - probably not, but he could come very close.  He's good enough to have that kind of season but probably won't get the workload.

 

WR

McLaurin - definitely

Samuel - if he actually plays then yeah

Dotson - I think he can, but it'd probably mean Samuel didn't

Probably a no on everyone else

 

TE:

Thomas - he's never done it before

Bates - probably not, but it's not out of the question

No on everyone else

 

OL

Roullier - definitely, if he stays healthy

Cosmi - yeah I could see it.  It would be the next step in his progression

Leno - he should unless he gets hurt

Norwell - I'd say he's a fair bet.  Coming off a healthy season and got 5 AV in a nonfunctional offense last year

Turner - He can definitely do it.  Almost got there last year.

No on everyone else

 

DL

Allen - definitely, he's could have a huge year

Payne - definitely, he's probably going to have a huge year

Sweat - he should

Young - he should too

No on everyone else

 

LB

Holcomb - got 8 last year, either he or Davis will do it again this year

Davis - I think he can do it, I'm putting him down as a yes

No on everyone else

 

DB

Curl - he's done it before, he'll be good if healthy

McCain - he came close last year, I think he'll do it

Fuller - he's done it here too, I think he will too

Jackson - I think he'll at least be close to 7

Probably a no on everyone else unless St. Juste has a breakout season.

 

I think in the more conservative and pessimistic injury projections, we still probably get 10 or 11 7+ AV seasons from guys on our roster this year.  In a stars align scenario where we stay mostly healthy, we could have 14 or 15.  That is getting into potential playoff run territory.  Maybe I was wrong and we do have the kind of broad roster quality to contend this year, provided Wentz settles in and plays well.

[Voice_of_Reason]

16 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

You're saying that nelson algahlor is proven better than curtis samuel?

I think it's more on the OL where I think the Eagles offense was really better.  I think ours is ok, but they could manhandle people up front in either the run or pass game.  I give our WR group the knod.  RB?  I dunno, I think maybe a push.  Knod to them on TE.  And Wentz ... the 2017 version was more confident and more athletic.  

 

 

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

I'm going to speculate on who could be a 7+ AV player for us this season, 7 AV being my loose cutoff for "good starter or key rotation player who had a good season."

I'm going to show massive ignorance, what is 7+ AV?  I feel like this is some type of metric like WAR, but I'm struggling to remember what it is.  

[FootballZombie]

58 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I'm going to show massive ignorance, what is 7+ AV?  I feel like this is some type of metric like WAR, but I'm struggling to remember what it is.  

 

 

I think its the single season "approximate value" (not to be confused w/ career aggregate AV) from PFR

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/about/approximate_value.htm

 

Wentz had a 14 n Gibby had an 8 last season so it adds up with the quoted numbers at least

 

Edited September 3, 2022 by FootballZombie