The All Things 2022 OTAs/Training Camp Thread

[88Comrade2000]

 

Taylor has no long term future here and in the nfl.  The goal of training camp/ preseason is to get Carson up to speed to be the starter and to develop Sam to be the eventual backup. Could Sam take the backup job from Taylor, it could happen. The team already knows what they have in Taylor. 

[Warhead36]

16 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

 

Taylor has no long term future here and in the nfl.  The goal of training camp/ preseason is to get Carson up to speed to be the starter and to develop Sam to be the eventual backup. Could Sam take the backup job from Taylor, it could happen. The team already knows what they have in Taylor. 

In before "but Heinicke won us games last year including beating Tom Brady!!" 

[Ball Security]

In these roster projections, I keep seeing 10 for OL.  Couldn’t they add a pass catcher and only keep 9 OL.

Currently, the likely 10 are Leno, Norwell, Roullier, Turner, Cosmi, Lucas, Paul, Larson, Schweitzer, and Charles, right?  Do we have a better option at 4th T.  I would imagine that the team views Charles and Paul as better guards than tackles.  If that’s the case, do you need Larson with Schweitzer having the ability to play center and you can store Ismail on the practice squad?  Is Paul and Charles redundant on the roster if you keep Larson.  I think they could buy themselves a roster spot with the position flex of Schweitzer and possibly Charles/Paul.

[dyst]

44 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

 

Taylor has no long term future here and in the nfl.  The goal of training camp/ preseason is to get Carson up to speed to be the starter and to develop Sam to be the eventual backup. Could Sam take the backup job from Taylor, it could happen. The team already knows what they have in Taylor. 

Maybe not as a starter but he definitely has a place in the NFL as a backup. 

[Leonard Washington]

38 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

 

Taylor has no long term future here and in the nfl.  The goal of training camp/ preseason is to get Carson up to speed to be the starter and to develop Sam to be the eventual backup. Could Sam take the backup job from Taylor, it could happen. The team already knows what they have in Taylor. 

I agree but knowing what they have in a Taylor works in his favor. Every year we see the value of having a backup that can win games. Taylor is everything you want as a backup. Well liked, cheap, can win NFL games and walking testament of mental toughness and hardwork. 

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

A rookie with upside gets experience under his belt with zero pressure, because expectations aren’t high, a la Heineke.

 

Or you flush a season down the toilet and ruin a QB prospect by throwing him out there before he's ready and crush his confidence.

 

A team with Carson Wentz as its starter needs a strong back up QB option.  You can't just wave the white flag when he gets hurt, you'd lose your locker room.

[Voice_of_Reason]

11 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

You're proposing to cut a guy who started 15 games for you last season when the starter was lost for the season in the 1st half of the 1st game in favor of a rookie who was drafted in the 5th round? What happens if CW gets hurt in game 1 vs Jax, is out for the seaason, and you've lost TH to some other team because you cut him? We all know you think TH sucks but rolling with a 5th round pick as the leader of your team in an emergency speaks loudly for your knowledge of how to build a roster. Do you ever think through some of the things you say or do you just expect us all to buy into the stuff you sell? 

I'm going to do the rare double-quote and response of the same post.

 

Another thing to add on to all the things everybody else has already said:  If Wentz goes down in week one, like Fitz last year, we already know we're not making the playoffs with TH.  He is, at best, good for 6 or 7 wins, and this year, it's probably less because there is a blueprint on how to beat him, and there is film on him.  There is virtually no way TH is leading the team to 10-11 wins.  Just like there is virtually no way ANY backup in the league is leading a team to 10-11 wins.

 

I've posted this before, but the list of backups who have come in and had that type of success are Kurt Warner, Steve Young, and Tom Brady.  Young was an interesting case because he would have been the overall #1 pick in the draft in 1984, but played a few years in the USFL before playing for Tampa for a few seasons, then ending up as Montana's backup in SF.  Everybody knew he had skills, but he was still a backup.

 

Brady and Warner came out of nowhere.  Brady was a 6th round pick who took over early in a season for an injured Drew Bledsoe, and the rest is history.  Warner was an undrafted guy who took over when Trent Green tore his ACL in preseason, and again, the rest is history. ** Ben Rothlisburger subbed in for an injured starter after week 1, and the Steelers went 15-1 and then eventually lost to the Patriots in the AFC Championship game, I think in 2001.  Ben was the backup, but he was also the #10 overall pick.  So, I toss that one out.  

 

From my memory, and I might be missing a guy or two, but those are the only backups who have gone on to have any sustained success and led teams to the playoffs.  

 

Taylor Heinicke is none of these guys.  He is a certified backup with no appreciable upside.  If Wentz goes down, I actually DON'T want to see TH.  It's a road to nowhere.  You get Howell in and get him experience, unless Howell is so lost he can't run the offense, and he could do damage to himself.  

[88Comrade2000]

6 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Or you flush a season down the toilet and ruin a QB prospect by throwing him out there before he's ready and crush his confidence.

 

A team with Carson Wentz as its starter needs a strong back up QB option.  You can't just wave the white flag when he gets hurt, you'd lose your locker room.

If Sam got the backup job, then he earned it. He outplayed Taylor.

 

That’s the goal but whether it happens depends on Sam and Taylor. Sam has to clearly outplay him to rewarded the backup job. Taylor will fight to remain the backup. 

[Captain James]

1 hour ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Shouldn’t there be a game day thread? We got a game in 4 hours. Yeah, it’s just preseason but finally some foooooooootbaaaaaaaaalll.

Where's that dude that got booted for starting two of those threads earlier in the week when you need him??

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, Captain James said:

Where's that dude that got booted for starting two of those threads earlier in the week when you need him??

It would just say "TV today..."

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

28 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Or you flush a season down the toilet and ruin a QB prospect by throwing him out there before he's ready and crush his confidence.

 

A team with Carson Wentz as its starter needs a strong back up QB option.  You can't just wave the white flag when he gets hurt, you'd lose your locker room.

The season is flushed down the toilet if Carson goes down anyways.  It was made abundantly clear last season, particularly down the stretch, that Heineke isn’t going to save a season.

Beyond that, this is all under the guise that Howell outplays Heineke in camp, which we’re all aware probably won’t/shouldn’t be the case.  But if he showed enough to do that, I don’t see how that’s waving the white flag and losing the team.  The team I’m certain is under no illusion that inserting Heineke = paloffs.

[YourWish is MyCommanders]

Please delete, wrong thread.

Edited August 13, 2022 by YourWish is MyCommanders

[KDawg]

At this point it looks like you’re flushing the season down the toilet with Heinicke, not Howell.

[Skinsinparadise]

I recall saying on the draft thread, what i thought Howell did better than any of the other QBs is make wicked throws, deep outs, beautiful throws.  I wasn't as into him as @KDawgand @Koolblue13 and there was another one, sorry I am forgetting whom, who liked him a little more than me.  But I liked Howell.

 

My two concerns with him were:

 

A.  His play when the pocket collapsed

B.  Can his running translate to the NFL?

 

As far as A, I am still not sure.  But as for B.  i am impressed.  I noticed in the Senior Bowl his mobility translated well.  And IMO today he showed that he can be elusive-mobile.  For me for Howell, his mobility translating to the NFL is a big deal as for me believing in him.  And on that count, I was giddy level happy to see how he played on that front.  That TD where he evaded defenders was a thing of beauty.

 

IMO he's much more talented than Heinicke.  I get that it takes time for rookies to develop and learn the playbook, etc.   But I am much more jazzed to see him play as the #2 than I am Heinicke. 

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[NoCalMike]

Howell taking over the #2 spot on the depth chart might not happen this season if for no other reason than having to learn the offense and maybe still need more work in other areas we don't see with our own eyes, also the hope of course is that if Carson does miss a game, it is isolated and not something that would force the team into one of  those scenarios like "do we push for .500 record in remaining games with Taylor or some NFL prep for Howell with the bigger picture in mind"  Hopefully that doesn't even come into play in 2022 but if it did it likely would depend when Wentz went down and for how long. and what the team's record is at the time and how likely a playoff a spot was attainable by going .500ish the rest of the season. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Stone Cold]

Mathis is a Unit

[Koolblue13]

Mathis looks a lot like Payne did as a rookie and that in no way is upsetting. 

 

With the coaching change, I can really see this Dline come together and really be the beast it should, but it's also because Toohill and Wise as much as Allen and Sweat.

 

We have enough impact big men that can rush the passer to be fresh all game.

[zCommander]

10 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

It would just say "TV today..."

 

That's funny but also true. On another board his name is the same and he starts lots of threads on it and all of them end with dots and you have to open the thread to see what the hell he is talking about...lol

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, zCommander said:

 

That's funny but also true. On another board his name is the same and he starts lots of threads on it and all of them end with dots and you have to open the thread to see what the hell he is talking about...lol

You okay buddy?

[zCommander]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

You okay buddy?

 

Aside from being tired from all the walking and roller coasters rides.. yeah I am good.

 

[Going Commando]

23 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

The season is flushed down the toilet if Carson goes down anyways.  It was made abundantly clear last season, particularly down the stretch, that Heineke isn’t going to save a season.

Beyond that, this is all under the guise that Howell outplays Heineke in camp, which we’re all aware probably won’t/shouldn’t be the case.  But if he showed enough to do that, I don’t see how that’s waving the white flag and losing the team.  The team I’m certain is under no illusion that inserting Heineke = paloffs.

 

It really can't be over if he gets hurt.  Carson plays a style of football where he gets banged up and missing time is always in the picture with him, and the Eagles still won a SB after he went down.  Heinicke did save our season last year, he helped keep us in the hunt for three months.  The team cratering down the stretch isn't on him, basically everyone went down but him.  Probably not many starters capable of digging out wins under the circumstances we faced, and I can't think of any other back ups who would have.  At the end of the day, Heinicke gave us a shockingly good season for a back up QB last year: 3500 yards, 20 TDs against 15 INTs and 65% completions with 11 AV is excellent and reliable production.  That's exactly what you want from the spot, and the team seems to respond really well to him and he's on a dirt cheap contract.  Heinicke's going to make the team and he's pretty important to both the QB room and the offense as a whole because of the continuity and insurance he represents.

 

I'm as optimistic about Howell as anyone else, I was pumped when we drafted him because I had him as a fringe first round caliber prospect (had him #39 on my board).  I think he was a home run pick, but we need to be realistic about our expectations for him this season.  There's not going to be some clear cut camp battle where he runs Heinicke off the team, it's rarely that cut and dry.  And he's making a tough transition from that gimmicky UNC offense that was all read options and screens and had him running basically like Lamar Jackson.  He's going to need time to acclimate to this level and I want us to successfully develop him.  Putting him into a situation where the team is on the brink of turtling up and going into survival mode and the season collapses would be awful for his development.  Most young QBs lose their confidence under those circumstances and it ruins their development and their careers.  Instead you want him hitting the ground running and the rest of the team being competitive and fired up each week, and the kid is going to need time to get to that kind of place in his progress.  And it's probably not going to happen this season.  We need to get good and win this year, and we need those two vet QBs in front of Sam on the depth chart.

[moondog]

I wouldn’t be entirely surprised if halfway through the season we hit a point where Heinicke is number 2 on game days but if wentz went down for significant time they would consider elevating Howell and giving him all the practice reps to prepare him to start. 
 

But I concur with most of the rest of you. TH is the primary backup and should be. For short term injury insurance, we know he can keep us competitive. Especially if the defense actually shows up. 

[SkinsFTW]

On 8/13/2022 at 10:14 AM, Voice_of_Reason said:

There is virtually no way TH is leading the team to 10-11 wins.  Just like there is virtually no way ANY backup in the league is leading a team to 10-11 wins.

 

I've posted this before, but the list of backups who have come in and had that type of success are Kurt Warner, Steve Young, and Tom Brady.  Young was an interesting case because he would have been the overall #1 pick in the draft in 1984, but played a few years in the USFL before playing for Tampa for a few seasons, then ending up as Montana's backup in SF.  Everybody knew he had skills, but he was still a backup.

 

Brady and Warner came out of nowhere.  Brady was a 6th round pick who took over early in a season for an injured Drew Bledsoe, and the rest is history.  Warner was an undrafted guy who took over when Trent Green tore his ACL in preseason, and again, the rest is history. ** Ben Rothlisburger subbed in for an injured starter after week 1, and the Steelers went 15-1 and then eventually lost to the Patriots in the AFC Championship game, I think in 2001.  Ben was the backup, but he was also the #10 overall pick.  So, I toss that one out.  

 

1992 Stan Humphries San Diego 11-5

1980 Jim Plunkett Oakland (Won SB)

1998 Randall Cunningham Minnesota 15-1

1983 Dan Marino Miami 12-4

1998 Vinny Testeverde NYJ 12-4

1983 Dave Kreig Seattle 9-7 but almost got to the SB vs the Redskins

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2022 by Skinsinparadise