2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

I wasn’t saying Ron would acquire picks for 2024 in hopes of keeping his job, but that he’d do it because it’s the best for the organization. 
 

You can win now and still make picks for right now. Trading down is just that, trading down but still making picks to help you today.  Not to mention value depending on the position. So what I’m saying is that it would not surprise me in the least if we trade down for extra picks this year and grab some for next year too. 
 

Trading down is the key for me..

We’ll see how it shakes out, it needs to present itself. I hope it does. 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I’m really tired of this narrative. Ron has done absolutely ZERO to prove this narrative to be true.

 

Every decision (whether right or wrong) has been with the long term health of the organization in mind. (Don’t parse the **** out of this…with “but Wentz!”, blah blah blah. 😆)

 

To me, assuming that Rivera will make decisions based on whether he will be fired after the season is a direct shot at the man’s character. 
 

You can question his coaching ability all you’d like, but the man’s character is above questioning in my opinion. He’s more than earned that. 

I don’t expect this draft to be any different. And I think in Ron’s mind, he has to do two things to keep his job. Win, continue to build a solid roster, and do both with impeccable integrity. (That might be three things. 😆)

 

Excited for the draft. We’re due for a HOF pick. Maybe tonight is the night. 

 

Agree with this.  

 

The only thing I don't like about Rivera as to the draft is he seems to have a very draft to need approach in the early rounds even though he denies that and says he likes to go BPA.  But in Rivera's defense this isn't an easy team to attract FAs and Dan's cash flow in recent years likely made this team less financially friendly than some other teams as to FA.  So drafting to need might have been more of a necessity for him. 

 

But overall, he's been very responsible-conservative as to not killing this team as for mortgaging the future.

[@DCGoldPants]

1 minute ago, skinny21 said:

In that situation, surely we shouldn’t expect that 3rd round corner to be better than 5th on the depth chart?  Seems like a change of pace back likely sees a lot more snaps than that corner.

 

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t mind going corner over rb in the 3rd… I just disagree with the premise they’d take more snaps (though anything’s possible).

I would think if you're taking a CB tomorrow. they are expected to be no worse than your dime CB. 5th would mean someone here from an underwhelming position group best that rookie out.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, @DCGoldPants said:

Nah. RBs have the shortest careers and take the hardest beatings.and elite guys get hurt too. Your 3rd RB will be on the field a lot less than even your 4th CB. Taking a RB in rounds 4 and after in most years? Yeah. go for it. if the make the team and play teams. That's a value pick for a contributor. Or, Improve your OL more and find your Alfred Morris on Saturday.

 

 

The third round pick is basically a Saturday pick.  I said third (the third is at the bottom of the round) or 4th.  They are basically both 4th round picks. 

 

Even the 4th CB?  The 4th CB gets plenty of reps typically. 

 

Very few RBs last the season.  Gibson hasn't.  Will see about Robinson. 

 

But my larger point isn't even about RB.  IMO the operative point with a 4th round pick isn't which player fills a need for the 2023 team.  It's IMO who is the best player you can get -- even if its a delayed gratification pick and that dude helps you more in 2024 than 2023. 

 

 

10 minutes ago, seantaylor=god said:

A lot of smoke now with Forbes. I think he’s our trade down target if the OTs we like aren’t there.

 

I really think we are going to end up getting Skoronski. I think he slides. Call me crazy, and feel free to make fun of me if it doesn’t happen, but if it does, I want the credit. 

 

Teams care about arm length and projectable traits at OT. If you aren’t sure he has the foot speed, length, or athleticism to stay at OT, do you really want to spend a top 15 pick on moving him to guard? Does he have the raw power to excel at guard in certain schemes?
 

I would love the pick because I put him at LG and let him run with it. As he gets more experience, see if he can take over at OT next year.

 

Nothing crazy about Skoronski.  That's who Kiper picked for us at 16 this morning.  It was covered on this thread.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[mhd24]

With Cam Robinson being suspended, I could see the Jags taking Harrison or Bergeron with their 1st.

[@DCGoldPants]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The third round pick is basically is a Saturday pick

But it's a Friday pick. It just is. Even comp picks at the end of the 3rd are 3rd rounders. I get you disagree. That time before Saturday starts is a great time to look at the available RBs and decide if you want to take one at all this year. 

[FootballZombie]

15 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I’m really tired of this narrative. Ron has done absolutely ZERO to prove this narrative to be true.

 

Every decision (whether right or wrong) has been with the long term health of the organization in mind. (Don’t parse the **** out of this…with “but Wentz!”, blah blah blah. 😆)

 

To me, assuming that Rivera will make decisions based on whether he will be fired after the season is a direct shot at the man’s character.

 

 

Its a valid narrative, and not a shot at Ron's character at all.

 

I don't think its a stretch to think Ron needs to have a good season to retain his job in the face of new ownership.

He is not the first coach to be on a hot seat and he won't be the last.

We very obviously see less long future oriented moves from FOs who feel the need to win now in order to keep their positions.

This is football, and there are a lot of jobs on the line beyond Ron's. He is not some monster for wanting to protect that even at the expense of the long future. He's Human.

[Fresh8686]

One thing I hear about Forbes from I think Tony Pauline was that he was 172 lbs at his pro day and he’s heard teams think his frame can put on more weight. 

[KDawg]

10 minutes ago, @DCGoldPants said:

I would think if you're taking a CB tomorrow. they are expected to be no worse than your dime CB. 5th would mean someone here from an underwhelming position group best that rookie out.

 

Well... Fuller, St Juste, Dantzler, Danny Johnson.

 

Christian Holmes developing.

 

A rookie CB could come in and take over for any of them, but that's not a guarantee after the first set of CBs. I don't weight CB with as much need as many do around here. I think a linebacker is a much higher defensive need. Even higher than Edge. And I think Jack Campbell is a top 25 player in this class. But he's a box backer, so he isn't going to be typically talked up. 

 

I strongly believe in a BPA philosophy. Stick to your board.

 

Don't force a thing.

 

If Jahmyr Gibbs or Bijan Robinson is at the top of our board when we draft: Take them. Period. Figure out how to negotiate having three backs. Trade one? Get creative offensively? Whatever. I don't care. Weapons are weapons and having more is never a concern.

 

If Lukas Van Ness or Myles Murphy or Nolan Smith is at the top? Take them.

 

Devon Witherspoon? Take him.

 

Jack Campbell? Take him.

 

We can discuss the individual evals and if we agree or disagree... but I hate the idea of drafting for need.

 

If you are going in thinking you HAVE to draft, say, a tackle... And the 5th tackle on your board is the best tackle available and you have him at a "74" prospect grade and you have a running back on the board who is a 95 prospect grade... why the heck would anyone want to take the much lesser prospect?

 

Value. Get value. I don't care what position it is (save punter, LS or K). Get the best value for our draft slot. Figure out how to make it work after.

4 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

 

Its a valid narrative, and not a shot at Ron's character at all.

 

I don't think its a stretch to think Ron needs to have a good season to retain his job in the face of new ownership.

He is not the first coach to be on a hot seat and he won't be the last.

We very obviously see less long future oriented moves from FOs who feel the need to win now in order to keep their positions.

This is football, and there are a lot of jobs on the line beyond Ron's. He is not some monster for wanting to protect that even at the expense of the long future. He's Human.

 

Okay, please point to the win now, future be damned moves Rivera has made so far this offseason. 

[Chump Bailey]

The only picks I would really, really not care for at #16 are Hooker or Forbes. Hooker or Bijan should give us a chance to trade down I would think though Bijan's likely not going to be there. 

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, @DCGoldPants said:

But it's a Friday pick. It just is. Even comp picks at the end of the 3rd are 3rd rounders. I get you disagree. That time before Saturday starts is a great time to look at the available RBs and decide if you want to take one at all this year. 

 

OK I said a late third or 4th rounder.  But because a late third rounder, still falls on the 2nd day -- it's a debate about using a 2nd day pick?

 

It's cool, I'll leave it alone.  . 

 

If you hate the idea of taking a RB, any RB in the third or 4th round

 

I am assuming you'd hit the roof if they took J. Gibbs in the 2nd round as has been discussed here on the off chance he falls to 47.

 

 

Edited April 27, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, @DCGoldPants said:

But it's a Friday pick. It just is. Even comp picks at the end of the 3rd are 3rd rounders. I get you disagree. That time before Saturday starts is a great time to look at the available RBs and decide if you want to take one at all this year. 

 

I don't know, not if you are really working through the draft by draft #s. Yes, the official numbers are thirds. But...

 

1st Round = 1-32

2nd Round = 33-64

3rd Round = 65-96

 

etc.

 

A round is technically 32 selections. This year Round 2 Pick 1 is a top 32 draft pick. 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Just now, Chump Bailey said:

The only picks I would really, really not care for at #16 are Hooker or Forbes. Hooker or Bijan should give us a chance to trade down I would think though Bijan's likely not going to be there. 

We getting Bijan. Let it be written. People like to talk about him running RPO with Jalen Hurts but he’d be pretty deadly running RPO with Sam Howell. 
 

I think Bijan is arguably the best football player in the draft. I will not be upset if we see him in B&G….but I think they grab Wright. 

[seantaylor=god]

3 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said:

One thing I hear about Forbes from I think Tony Pauline was that he was 172 lbs at his pro day and he’s heard teams think his frame can put on more weight. 

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/emmanuel-forbes
Yeah, with that wingspan you would think he could add some weight, that’s not far off of Joey Porter Jr. He has small hands though, so maybe not.

[@DCGoldPants]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Well... Fuller, St Juste, Dantzler, Danny Johnson.

 

Christian Holmes developing.

St. Juste now lives in the "when healthy" classification. Beyond Fuller, there is a reason why it's labeled as on of the weakest position groups here. 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

 

I strongly believe in a BPA philosophy. Stick to your board.

 

Don't force a thing.

 

 

Exactly.

 

Great players win championships.  Delayed gratification in life works -- it works in building an NFL roster, too.  Everything isn't about who fiills the greatest needs for the 2023 season alone.  Winning 8 games versus 7 next season -- isn't the be all and end all. 

 

I am stunned that this is a controversial theory to a number of peope.  . 

[KDawg]

Just now, seantaylor=god said:

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/emmanuel-forbes
Yeah, with that wingspan you would think he could add some weight, that’s not far off of Joey Porter Jr. He has small hands though, so maybe not.

 

Forbes the player would be an excellent pick up for us. Absolutely. I'd love to have a player with his skillset (which is close to what Spoon is, except Spoon is bigger).

 

But drafting a 165ish guy at 16 is a tremendous risk. And I believe in trusting your board, but part of the individual evals of a player HAS to be their size. I think someone like Bryce Young overcomes it with his natural ability as a passer. He is truly one of the better QBs we've seen come out in years skillset wise. His size does knock him down a few pegs, though. But I still think he should be the first QB off the board.

 

Forbes size is a bit more questionable on defense. A guy who is 185-190 ish can definitely get by. But 165 is really, really light. They are saying he's 170 now, but who knows. These guys have professionals that can get them to gain some mass for a short period for testing and then get it back off. 

 

A Forbes pick would be a little frustrating. But I love the player so I'd probably get over it. But I'd be skeptical until I see him sustain for the full season. Strategically I think it's an error. But the player himself, skill wise, is very intriguing as a prospect. 

[FootballZombie]

Yeesh, Zero percentile weight...

 

 

You'd have to alter Forbes physical structure to such a degree that I'm not sure you can be very confident in what your buying... That is indeed scary. Who says his body would even hold up to the change let alone play.

 

 

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, @DCGoldPants said:

St. Juste now lives in the "when healthy" classification. Beyond Fuller, there is a reason why it's labeled as on of the weakest position groups here. 

 

I'd argue DE is weaker as there is also a "when healthy" concern there. I'd also argue Linebacker is weaker. 

 

OL is probably equal, but you need more of them so it's a strategic bigger need. 

 

Tight end is fairly weak, too. 

[DWinzit]

15 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I'd argue DE is weaker as there is also a "when healthy" concern there. I'd also argue Linebacker is weaker. 

 

OL is probably equal, but you need more of them so it's a strategic bigger need. 

 

Tight end is fairly weak, too. 

Agree we need a TE, LB and an Edge. They all are fine if day 3 picks in this draft. Earlier always better!

 

Did I mention I want Campbell

 

Pace is my fallback want/need

Edited April 27, 2023 by DWinzit

[@DCGoldPants]

11 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I'd argue DE is weaker as there is also a "when healthy" concern there. I'd also argue Linebacker is weaker. 

 

OL is probably equal, but you need more of them so it's a strategic bigger need. 

 

Tight end is fairly weak, too. 

 

I'd put OL about the same as CB or a tab below. The those others after are all needs but these two are the weakest/biggest needs for immediate 2023 contributors and depth. All the others you listed in DE, TE, LB all need help. 

[actorguy1]

Certainly draft BPA but most teams draft boards will be tiered. If a certain tier happens to have players that also fill a need as well then they will be Weighted towards those players. 

[seantaylor=god]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Forbes the player would be an excellent pick up for us. Absolutely. I'd love to have a player with his skillset (which is close to what Spoon is, except Spoon is bigger).

 

But drafting a 165ish guy at 16 is a tremendous risk. And I believe in trusting your board, but part of the individual evals of a player HAS to be their size. I think someone like Bryce Young overcomes it with his natural ability as a passer. He is truly one of the better QBs we've seen come out in years skillset wise. His size does knock him down a few pegs, though. But I still think he should be the first QB off the board.

 

Forbes size is a bit more questionable on defense. A guy who is 185-190 ish can definitely get by. But 165 is really, really light. They are saying he's 170 now, but who knows. These guys have professionals that can get them to gain some mass for a short period for testing and then get it back off. 

 

A Forbes pick would be a little frustrating. But I love the player so I'd probably get over it. But I'd be skeptical until I see him sustain for the full season. Strategically I think it's an error. But the player himself, skill wise, is very intriguing as a prospect. 

Yeah, I totally understand that and I agree. My issue with Forbes is not the player, but it’s the value at that spot. It’s poor strategy, even if it’s a quality player.

 

 

 

[757SeanTaylor21]

Devonta Smith frkm Philly who came in 110 lbs soaking wet seems to be fine...if Forbes is the pick he will be fine

[Rex Tomb]

2 minutes ago, 757SeanTaylor21 said:

Devonta Smith frkm Philly who came in 110 lbs soaking wet seems to be fine...if Forbes is the pick he will be fine

In some of the mock drafts I have seen it appears that we pick Forbes even with various tackles like Darnell Wright on the board.  I even saw one where we pick Emmanuel Forbes over Peter Skowronski. If that were to happen, that would be a massive mistake and waste of draft capital. I would be livid.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Rex Tomb