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2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

zCommander

By zCommander
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RWJ

RWJ

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Gotta be careful about having too many OL on rookie deals at the same time, too, though.

 

The bill comes due. 

We are finding this out with our DL.  Great response, KDawg. 

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KDawg

KDawg

Posted
Posted
Just now, Est.1974 said:

I think we’ve moved away from multiple OL in the draft now. Unless we took a later round C maybe. The draft may well go in a very different direction to what it first appeared. Next few days will make things a bit clearer IMO.

I think you're right.

 

I think we are going to go BPA in the first. If Paris Johnson is there I think we're taking him.

 

I also think they'd be inclined to take a guard, but probably want to move back to do it.

 

But I think most positions are now in play. Including, until we sign someone... running back. 

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skinny21

skinny21

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, method man said:


I’ve looked at a lot of mocks and the only EDGE still available at 16 out of the first round group is Nolan Smith who is purely a 3-4 OLB as he is sub 240

Fair enough.  I was really just addressing the theory since some of the resistance to the idea seemed to be about playing time and the win-now mentality.

3 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

That’s a good point. But that’s where a cheap vet rotational guy could be added for impact. Or a 3rd/4th rounder. If you don’t plan to bring back Sweat or Young or both then I’m working on trading them this year for draft picks and using those picks to help replace them. But this FO is focused on winning now, so hard to see that being a strategy this year. 
 

can’t wait to get in a legit FO with longterm visions under the new owner, because these decisions would be properly executed. 

I can see your point there (and very much agree about long term vision).  And to your point, in terms of succession, I’d prefer to use a mid round pick on a high upside guy that can develop this year.  Your first rounders, with maybe a few exceptions, should be guys that get playing time and are (projected to be) fairly clear upgrades.

 

In this specific case, your 1st round DE is getting plenty of snaps in year 1, and depending on how they perform, and how Sweat/Young perform, you can make your decisions from there.  Maybe tag and trade Sweat next year, maybe trade Young, maybe let Sweat walk for a comp pick, etc.  Point being, you evaluate - decide who you want to keep/move, look to sell high if possible.  

2 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Just did a mock draft where I got LT Broderick Jones in the 1st, C John Michael Schmitz in the 2nd and OG Andrew Vorhees in the 5th. With CB, DE in between. 
 

In terms of future impact on the OL that would be such a dream scenario. Redshirt Vorhees. JMS can push Gates to backup/LG. Jones would have no pressure to rush in and start and he’s young and raw … but 2024 and beyond you’d be looking at Jones - Vorhees - JMS - Cosmi - Wylie potentially and that would be young and insanely cheap. Whether Howell panned out or we have to go QB in 2024 draft, having 4/5 of a line on rookie contracts as well as a QB … would actually allow us to spend massively elsewhere. Including DE. 

 

Might be why an argument for going all-in on the OL this year in the draft early could make sense. 

I’m not big on redshirting a 1st rounder, but…

This has been one of my major caveats in terms of paying our dline - if we field a pretty cheap offense, we can afford to spend more on D.  As the offensive players come up for new contracts (Dotson, Howell if he works out, etc), Allen’s contract will be ending, followed by Payne, etc., so the balance can start to shift.  I’ll add that almost all of our more expensive offensive players - Leno, Roullier, Thomas and Samuel - will likely be off the books next year (if not this year).

The other is that with staggered contracts (Allen signed in ‘22, Payne in ‘23, Sweat in ‘24 and Young in ‘25), we’re probably only overlapping all 4 for 1 year… and that’s presuming we don’t trade one, or we decide to let one of the DEs walk.

To be clear, I’m not arguing that this is what we should do, or that it will work out perfectly… just saying it’s a fairly reasonable outlook IMO.

 

 

Anyway, back to the draft!  I’m having some trouble nailing down my preferred direction in the 1st, but Harrison or Johnson (looking like a decent chance they’re both gone though) are probably my top options.  Trading back for Campbell is appealing (along with the prospect of adding picks).  I think Branch and Mayer could be really good picks for us (I do have some concerns w/ Mayer though).  I like the idea of a corner, though I wonder if holding off for a boundary corner later might serve us better - seems like it’s a fairly deep class, we have two pretty good starters, and DJ and Holmes give us some insurance/potential.

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JamesMadisonSkins

JamesMadisonSkins

Posted
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Gotta be careful about having too many OL on rookie deals at the same time, too, though.

 

The bill comes due. 

 

Oh for sure. But presuming you hit on those 3 and they're all starting by Year 2 ... you have them on rookie deals for 3 years (JMS, Vorhees) or 4 years (Jones w/ 5th year)

 

In those 3-4 years you can sign free agents, draft depth and eventual replacements ... I think the perfect mix would be a balance of 2-3 rookie contract players and 2-3 veterans/FAs.

 

Total hypothetical BUT if I were a GM here's how I would build the OL with the above scenario ...

 

2023:

LT: Leno, B. Jones

LG: Norwell, Paul, Vorhees

OC: Gates, JMS
RG: Cosmi, Charles
RT: Wylie

 

Rookie Contract Starters: 1

Vet Contract Starters: 4

 

2024:

LT: B. Jones (Year 2)

LG: Vorhees (Year 2), Paul (Year 3)

OC: JMS (Year 2), Gates (Year 2/3)

RG: Cosmi (Year 4), Rookie 3rd-5th Round Pick (call him Rookie 1)

RT: Wylie (Year 2/3), Rookie 3rd-5th Round Pick (call him Rookie 2)

 

Rookie Contracts: 4

Vet Contracts: 1

 

2025: 

LT: B. Jones (Year 3)

LG: Vorhees (Year 2), Paul (Year 4)

OC: JMS, Rookie 3rd-5th Round Pick (call him Rookie 3)

RG: Cosmi (Extension-Year 5), Rookie 1 (Year 2)

RT: Rookie 1st Round RT (Rookie 4), Rookie 2 (Year 2)

 

Rookie Contracts: 4

Vet Contracts: 1

 

2026: 

LT: B. Jones (Year 4)

LG: Vorhees (Year 3), Rookie 3rd-5th Round Pick (Rookie 5)

OC: JMS (Year 3), Rookie 3 (Year 2)

RG: Cosmi (Year 6), Rookie 1 (Year 3)

RT: Rookie 4 (Year 2), Rookie 2 (Year 3)

 

Rookie Contracts: 4

Vet Contracts: 1

 

2027:

LT: B. Jones (Year 5 - 5th year option)

LG: Rookie 5 (Year 2), Rookie 3rd-5th Round Pick

OC: JMS (extension - Year 5), Rookie 3 (Year 3)

RG: Cosmi (Year 7), Rookie 1 (Year 4)

RT: Rookie 4 (Year 3), Rookie 2 (Year 4)

 

Rookie Contracts: 2

Vet Contracts: 3 (including 5th year for Jones)


This is the year you might see the most turnover into 2028. You've got Rookie 1-2 and RG and RT on expiring rookie deals. Rookie 4 at RT will be coming up for an extension. JMS and Cosmi and Jones are on their 2nd contracts. Cosmi likely getting cut after the season unless he's a legit pro-bowl caliber RG. 

 

Of course, many of these picks WONT hit. But some will, and you'll be able to intermix veteran backups/depth signings as well as big-name free agents to replace some of these rookie conceptual players that don't hit. It also features at least one rookie picked in each year, which isn't always the case ... but you get the picture. Keep building the OL through the draft. I would not let Gates or Wylie additions impact how I draft. It might change how I expect the draft picks to contribute in 2023, but I am building for 2024 and beyond with this draft, not the OL in 2023. So I am still hammering it and hammering it hard. 

Edited by JamesMadisonSkins
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Always A Commander Never A Captain

Always A Commander Never A Captain

Posted
Posted
53 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I still think drafting OT in the first is a priority. 

 

Whylie is not good and Leno is old.

 

Do you have some articles that talk about Wylie not being good? His pass block win rate was good. Don't know about his run blocking. But the Chiefs run game did pick up and play well in the playoffs at least.

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Koolblue13

Koolblue13

Posted
Posted
Just now, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

Do you have some articles that talk about Wylie not being good? His pass block win rate was good. Don't know about his run blocking. But the Chiefs run game did pick up and play well in the playoffs at least.

I thought it was pretty common knowledge. He's a decent guard and a bad tackle. He was only good in the SB, because of the turf and being allowed to grab and hold.

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FrFan

FrFan

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

Do you have some articles that talk about Wylie not being good? His pass block win rate was good. Don't know about his run blocking. But the Chiefs run game did pick up and play well in the playoffs at least.

I think you're going to like this : https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2023/3/11/23634559/arrowheadlines-andrew-wylie-named-the-most-underrated-free-agent-offensive-tackle

I wouldn't mind Riverboat selecting a couple of big guys in the draft too (OT, G/C)

Edited by FrFan
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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

So do I and it bothers me every year we do it. It will bother me again this year.

 

I still think O lineman in the first or 2nd is slam dunk.   Main change from post FA I'd guess is it makes it more 50-50 that it comes in the first.  Before FA, i was like a 80-20 that it would be O line.

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

Do you have some articles that talk about Wylie not being good? His pass block win rate was good. Don't know about his run blocking. But the Chiefs run game did pick up and play well in the playoffs at least.

 

Seems like the narrative against him is he gave up a lot of sacks but there is context to that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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clskinsfan

clskinsfan

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

OK so Wright  also now.

 

so that's three players they are going to meet with three times:  Wright, Torrence, Dawand

Screen Shot 2023-03-15 at 2.41.19 PM.png

 

I havent watched their pro day yet but apparently Carter really stunk up the joint. Came in overweight, struggled with drills and did no athletic testing at all. Quite a slide coming for the guy many had as the number one prospect in this draft. With the legal stuff he may not even be a first rounder anymore. 

Edited by clskinsfan
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