2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Est.1974]

28 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Drafting an Edge because we might lose Sweat or Young is just awful team building. You're playing whack a mole instead of actually improving your roster.

Not really. Drafting an Edge early is smart if we’ve decided to give DL money to Allen and Payne because we don’t intent to pay those ends. 
 

And more than likely an Edge early would be a stud prospect based on the combine showings.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

4 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Not really. Drafting an Edge early is smart if we’ve decided to give DL money to Allen and Payne because we don’t intent to pay those ends. 
 

And more than likely an Edge early would be a stud prospect based on the combine showings.

 

My point on this earlier was that it's fairly irresponsible to "draft replacements assuming future loss" when you have needs at another position group.

 

Drafting a 1st round DE (even if BPA) when you have such a deep DL as we currently have while neglecting the offensive line seems less than prudent.

 

I assume we'll end up extending one or both of Sweat and Young, so just draft their replacement in next year's draft. 

[Est.1974]

Just now, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

My point on this earlier was that it's fairly irresponsible to "draft replacements assuming future loss" when you have needs at another position group.

 

Drafting a 1st round DE (even if BPA) when you have such a deep DL as we currently have while neglecting the offensive line seems less than prudent.

 

I assume we'll end up extending one or both of Sweat and Young, so just draft their replacement in next year's draft. 

I’m not pushing to draft one but it would be far from ‘irresponsible’ if we did.

[zCommander]

wrong thread....

Edited March 14, 2023 by zCommander

[KDawg]

54 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Drafting an Edge because we might lose Sweat or Young is just awful team building. You're playing whack a mole instead of actually improving your roster.

You wouldn’t draft an edge to replace them. You’d draft an edge because they are BPA with forecasted need weighted into the formula.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

You wouldn’t draft an edge to replace them. You’d draft an edge because they are BPA with forecasted need weighted into the formula.

 

Then in this case I would try hard as hell to trade down OR draft the 2nd closest guy on the list.

 

My "pie in the sky" solution to DE ... draft a raw upside talent who falls because they need development ... somewhere in the 4th-6th.

 

Figure out which Ends you want to extend after the 2024 season. If both, great. If one, great. If neither, well then you have a lot of $$ to bring in a mid-level replacement in FA and can target the draft for a replacement and just cede that DE won't be your strength for a year or two (but at least DT is).But at least you've got a developmental guy (this year's mid rounder) and depth (Toney, JSW, Toohill) ... And that's okay. But to draft a 1st round DE when you very well could be extending your two existing DE ... idk.

 

You'd then have:
DE: 1st, 1st, 1st

DT: 1st, 1st, 2nd, 5th

 

Too much draft capital invested in the DL. 6 players in the 1st two rounds. 

Edited March 14, 2023 by JamesMadisonSkins

[Est.1974]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

You wouldn’t draft an edge to replace them. You’d draft an edge because they are BPA with forecasted need weighted into the formula.

Yep. Just draft good players. That works.

[Going Commando]

54 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Drafting an Edge because we might lose Sweat or Young is just awful team building. You're playing whack a mole instead of actually improving your roster.

 

Not if you get an upgrade.  I don't think Chase will be upgradeable in this class, but he could be a diminished player.  Hedging against that is smart when you've got an unusually deep crop of first round talent at edge.  Most years are ****ty, and most FA classes are barren and horrendously overpriced.  It's a cornerstone position on defense where the stars almost never change teams.

 

I actually do think there is a decent chance we can get a better player than Montez at 16 this year, because I think Myles Murphy might be there.  Montez is a good player who is good four about three games a year where he just totally takes them over.  I'm not sleeping on him.  But I think Murphy can be a Trey Hendrickson and a better player than Montez, and do it for a cheep five seasons.  But if Murphy isn't there, I'm certainly not forcing a pick at edge.

 

I'd also pick Bresee as a BPA choice at 16 if he's there despite the fact we just signed Payne and picked Mathis last year.  You have to trust BPA to max out the talent of your team in the long run.  Bresee is honestly a bigger talent than Payne is, perhaps even more talented than Allen.  Certainly younger, and certainly far cheaper.  And the guy can play on the edge as wide as 5-6 technique, so you can play him along with Allen, Payne, and Chase.

[seantaylor=god]

Aside from starting QB and RB there really is no position I would be against drafting early regardless of team need. With injuries, you can’t know what positions will need depth and the best players can always rotate in. I look at what the Giants did for years successfully with pass rushers as a model, if the guy is the best one on your board.

 

I’d love it if  CB or OL is the BPA but I’m not reaching for a guy.

[Rogue Jedi]

I'd kill for either Devon Witherspoon or Christian Gonzales at 16, but those two looking like top 10 picks. I could settle for Joey Porter Jr, but I think the former 2 are much better.

How bad would be the cost to jump from 16 to 8? I think we are one stellar corner away from being a top 3 defense.

[xxprodigyxx]

all i want is a late round 6'4" or 6'5" anthony mix/marko mitchell type wide receiver to fawn over.

[Berggy9598]

14 minutes ago, xxprodigyxx said:

all i want is a late round 6'4" or 6'5" anthony mix/marko mitchell type wide receiver to fawn over.

Nothing beats handing out golden jackets in the preseason after a slightly difficult catch. 

[xxprodigyxx]

14 minutes ago, Berggy9598 said:

Nothing beats handing out golden jackets in the preseason after a slightly difficult catch. 

some of us are just dreamers

[Koolblue13]

2 hours ago, xxprodigyxx said:

some of us are just dreamers

Johnny Mingo meboy!

[xxprodigyxx]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

Johnny Mingo meboy!

nfl.com compares him to anquan boldin. i'm sold!

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Jesse MF Lumsden.

Robert MF McCune.

[skinny21]

DE isn’t the direction I’d lean in the 1st, but it’s worth bearing in mind that Sweat played full time and logged 70% of snaps.  If Chase matches that this year, that leaves about 60%… and that’s if Sweat and Young both stay healthy.

[method man]

What hasn’t been discussed much is trading up for a non QB. If Paris Johnson is still there at #12, do you trade the #16, the 3rd round comp pick and the 4th rounder to move up to grab him? I certainly would and let him play RT year 1 and transition him to LT in year 2.

 

You could still pick up a CB in rd 2 and then grab a linebacker, a center, a RB and a QB with those final 4 picks.

 

I could also see Ron & co being more aggressive trading picks in 2024 to get more picks in 2023

[method man]

3 hours ago, skinny21 said:

DE isn’t the direction I’d lean in the 1st, but it’s worth bearing in mind that Sweat played full time and logged 70% of snaps.  If Chase matches that this year, that leaves about 60%… and that’s if Sweat and Young both stay healthy.

I’ve looked at a lot of mocks and the only EDGE still available at 16 out of the first round group is Nolan Smith who is purely a 3-4 OLB as he is sub 240

[JamesMadisonSkins]

5 hours ago, method man said:

What hasn’t been discussed much is trading up for a non QB. If Paris Johnson is still there at #12, do you trade the #16, the 3rd round comp pick and the 4th rounder to move up to grab him? I certainly would and let him play RT year 1 and transition him to LT in year 2.

 

You could still pick up a CB in rd 2 and then grab a linebacker, a center, a RB and a QB with those final 4 picks.

 

I could also see Ron & co being more aggressive trading picks in 2024 to get more picks in 2023

Good point on trading 2024’s for 2023’s. That would be too bad given it’s a short sighted strategy. And if Howell isn’t the guy we won’t have the assets to do anything in 2024 if we are too wreckless. 

 

If this staff thinks Paris Johnson is a bonafide LT and there’s a drop off after that then hell yeah. I’d trade 16 and 97 for 12 in a heartbeat. Heck I would trade 16 and 47 for 12 (and maybe a 4th back). 

8 hours ago, skinny21 said:

DE isn’t the direction I’d lean in the 1st, but it’s worth bearing in mind that Sweat played full time and logged 70% of snaps.  If Chase matches that this year, that leaves about 60%… and that’s if Sweat and Young both stay healthy.

That’s a good point. But that’s where a cheap vet rotational guy could be added for impact. Or a 3rd/4th rounder. If you don’t plan to bring back Sweat or Young or both then I’m working on trading them this year for draft picks and using those picks to help replace them. But this FO is focused on winning now, so hard to see that being a strategy this year. 
 

can’t wait to get in a legit FO with longterm visions under the new owner, because these decisions would be properly executed. 

[KDawg]

5 hours ago, method man said:

What hasn’t been discussed much is trading up for a non QB. If Paris Johnson is still there at #12, do you trade the #16, the 3rd round comp pick and the 4th rounder to move up to grab him? I certainly would and let him play RT year 1 and transition him to LT in year 2.

 

You could still pick up a CB in rd 2 and then grab a linebacker, a center, a RB and a QB with those final 4 picks.

 

I could also see Ron & co being more aggressive trading picks in 2024 to get more picks in 2023

I will be fairly upset if we trade 2024 assets for a non-QB.

 

I am as big on Howell as anyone. But he still has to prove his worth... We need our 2024 first in case we need a QB. 

[method man]

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I will be fairly upset if we trade 2024 assets for a non-QB.

 

I am as big on Howell as anyone. But he still has to prove his worth... We need our 2024 first in case we need a QB. 

Not saying he will trade next year’s first but wouldn’t be shocked if he moves Day 3 picks next year like when he traded a future 5th for Cheeseman and Toney

[Est.1974]

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I will be fairly upset if we trade 2024 assets for a non-QB.

 

I am as big on Howell as anyone. But he still has to prove his worth... We need our 2024 first in case we need a QB. 

Yep agreed. We look fairly well set to hit the 2023 draft and come out of it much stronger. There’s an argument to go back from #16 at this stage. But trading future year picks are off limits IMO.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Just did a mock draft where I got LT Broderick Jones in the 1st, C John Michael Schmitz in the 2nd and OG Andrew Vorhees in the 5th. With CB, DE in between. 
 

In terms of future impact on the OL that would be such a dream scenario. Redshirt Vorhees. JMS can push Gates to backup/LG. Jones would have no pressure to rush in and start and he’s young and raw … but 2024 and beyond you’d be looking at Jones - Vorhees - JMS - Cosmi - Wylie potentially and that would be young and insanely cheap. Whether Howell panned out or we have to go QB in 2024 draft, having 4/5 of a line on rookie contracts as well as a QB … would actually allow us to spend massively elsewhere. Including DE. 

 

Might be why an argument for going all-in on the OL this year in the draft early could make sense. 

Edited March 15, 2023 by JamesMadisonSkins

[KDawg]

3 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Just did a mock draft where I got LT Broderick Jones in the 1st, C John Michael Schmitz in the 2nd and OG Andrew Vorhees in the 5th. With CB, DE in between. 
 

In terms of future impact on the OL that would be such a dream scenario. Redshirt Vorhees. JMS can push Gates to backup/LG. Jones would have no pressure to rush in and start and he’s young and raw … but 2024 and beyond you’d be looking at Jones - Vorhees - JMS - Cosmi - Wylie potentially and that would be young and insanely cheap. Whether Howell panned out or we have to go QB in 2024 draft, having 4/5 of a line on rookie contracts as well as a QB … would actually allow us to spend massively elsewhere. Including DE. 

 

Might be why an argument for going all-in on the OL this year in the draft early could make sense. 

 

Gotta be careful about having too many OL on rookie deals at the same time, too, though.

 

The bill comes due.