2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[KDawg]

18 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

My position is BPA of need. If Paris Johnson / Skoronski is there take them. If not and you can't trade back to get picks and an Oline guy then you move to the next need which would be CB. If there isn't one then you look for the next need. To say I think a 3rd round Oline guy should be taken at 16 is just plain silly. But if the oline guy you like is within 5 or 6 picks of where you're and you like him then take him.

Again, this is the same as nearly everyone else here. No one disagrees.

 

BPA ALWAYS = Player skill + Draft Value + Need + Draft Position
 

I feel like a broken record… but if BPA meant pure BEST there’s be some long snappers and punters taken first overall.

[DWinzit]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I am re-watching guys today.  Focusing on players, I think they might take and my draft man crush is growing for Quan Martin.  I don't think he's a mile off Brian Branch.  And if they are looking for ball skills, his picks were really impressive, some of them were awesome reads-catches.

 

I like his teammate, too, Sydney Brown.  Watched him today on GMF with his brother.   It would be ironic if they drafted both of the Brown brothers.  Both seem to fit that 4th round range give or take.   High character players.    Brown had 6 picks which is insane but 5 out of the 6 came off lucky -- right place at the right time where the Qb basically just threw the ball right to him.  But i'll credit him for catching the ball.  Sydney though is a bit more erratic against the run game -- missing tackles.  Quan on the other hand is a lot like Branch, high floor, does IMO everything well -- coverage, tackling, etc. 

 

I didn't put him on my 2nd round wish list because judging by mocks he's going later.  But screw those mocks. i am revising my list.  I think he's a good pick at 47.   

 

One difference with Branch is he can play outside corner well.  So if the board in the end doesn't fall their way where they end up both with a high end corner and safety -- this dude can cover both things and you can slot him anywhere.  Slot corner, outside corner, Big Nickle, FS.

 

He's a better athlete than Branch, I think better ball skills do, and is even more of a swiss amry knife than Branch.  I still put Branch a half a peg higher because he's elite as a tackler and his play recognition is off the charts.  But Quan Martin IMO isn't that far behind.

 

 

Quan is the real deal, like him muchly!

3 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

There's still a ton of good talent out there on the FA market.

 

Still think we can be aggressive in the draft at TE, C, OT ... and the resulting cuts from those additions could free up enough $$ to make some solid additions in FA ... Rock Ya Sin ... Isaiah Wynn ... Shaq Griffin ... S Josh Johnson ... players still out there.

I have always been a Rock Ya Sin fan.

 

There is always a chance that if they made a cut or two they could sign a FA to fill a hole. Also, there should be cuts starting now and right through the weekend.

[Skinsinparadise]

 I think its easier to explain via examples.

 

My favorite example of this was the draft where Gibbs and the FO telegraphed they wanted a corner.  In that draft the discussion was about 3 corners likely going top 10.  2 teams took corners head of them -- Rolle, and Pacman Jones, we took the third -- Carols Rogers.

 

We didn't need an edge since the D line was stout.  Demarcus Ware wasn't the dude to help complete the defense.  But we needed a corner, if I recall Smoot left for FA.  Dallas takes Ware a few picks later, we take Rogers.  Ware ends up likely a Hall of Famer.  Rogers ends up a B level, player at best.  But the Rogers pick felt "smarter" then because corner was the big hole -- why take another edge when you got Andre Carter and company?  In that moment, it made sense -- years later it looked stupid.

 

Heck even our ex-GM Vinny Cerrrato shared a story recently that he wanted Jamaal Charles in a draft.  But Dan told him no, we need another WCO WR for Zorn's offense so they took M. Kelly.  Did they really need Charles when they already had Portis?  Nope.  Charles might have felt redundant for a year.   But Portis fell off a cliff the next year.  And Charles had a killer career.

 

Delayed gratfication.   

 

Drafting to need will pop up organically enough where you will have similar caliber players at different spots.   But you likely will have opportunities too to take a distinctly better player who might not represent your top need or even top 3 needs -- but if you think that dude is a rock star player -- take them. The draft isn't just about the first round.  If you miss your big need there, the odds are good you'll get an other swing at it. 

 

Every draft isn't the same.   Your draft position isn't the same from draft to draft.  There are runs on some spots sometimes before your pick and then in other drafts you might have the pick of the litter.  Some draft are just stacked at some postions more than others.  You can't IMO just ignore that dynamic and shop for need.  And also needs can change in a heartbeat as Logan Paulsen likes to say. 

 

And of course there are other variables that matter too.  Value of the position, depth of that spot in the draft, how does your cap situation look at some spots -- how close your roster is to SB caliber versus not, etc. 

 

But in short, you take Demarcus Ware not Carlos Rogers.  You take Jamaal Charles not Malcomb Kelly.  that's how you build a winner IMO.

 

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I am a BPA guy but even if I were about needs edge is clearly in that mix 

 

 

Wow, I did not realize they were all up next year.

If Chase had a good year, they can still franchise him next year right?

 

I am sure I am in the minority but I hope they keep Sweat. Those of you who were in this thread in 2019 know I was the biggest advocate for Sweat.

 

I hope they draft an edge this year regardless, this is a top draft for them. You must take advantage!

[NYSkins21]

The closer we get, the more I think that Hooker might be the pick at 16 if we’re unable to trade down. And I think I’m pretty okay with it. Would love to end up with Bijan but I think I might be okay with Hooker at 16.

[Forehead]

Anyone know why Porter is less appealing all of a sudden?  He's probably the most violent CB from a tackling perspective, though he has a tendency to draw personal fouls because of it.  Still, love the attitude.  I wonder what the cause is.

[NYSkins21]

3 hours ago, Redskins 2021 said:

Any shot KC gives up 31 for Young? They need a pass rusher and they offered alot for B.Burns from panthers last year. I think it was 2 # 1 picks.

I don’t think there’s a shot in hell Andy gives up a first for Chase coming off inconsistency and injury. If they’re going to trade anyone I’d rather trade Sweat. 

[Jumbo]

14 minutes ago, NYSkins21 said:

The closer we get, the more I think that Hooker might be the pick at 16 if we’re unable to trade down. And I think I’m pretty okay with it. Would love to end up with Bijan but I think I might be okay with Hooker at 16.

 

 

Gotta say, and I'm no heavyweight champ on my draft calls, I'd rather not draft a qb that's even close to a lateral move re: Howell's talent/potential.

 

I know Hooker's getting a lot of late buzz and that he's thought of by many media heads to be worth of inclusion, talent wise, with the qbs after stroud and young, but I also remember that prior to some recent members' somewhat  revisionist presentations of Howell's value that last year plenty of the talking heads had a very positive take on him and did indeed have him as top second rd to bottom second and some had him in mid first or thereabouts. His one game is obviously a most limited sample but he looked pretty good.

 

I'd rather we bring in a 5-7th round guy as a likely third on roster if felt necessary, is there's  some potential.

 

We have the solid capable vet in house and the young guy with promise for him to tutor, I don't gravitate much towards another closely equivalent guy there in the first four or five rounds when we need other positions badly too.

 

But maybe Hooker is a clear cut above Sam, I'll defer to the forum experts on college players.

[MrJL]

1 minute ago, Forehead said:

Anyone know why Porter is less appealing all of a sudden?  He's probably the most violent CB from a tackling perspective, though he has a tendency to draw personal fouls because of it.  Still, love the attitude.  I wonder what the cause is.

 

the thing I read said it was the national media hyping Porter to us, close to home media less so.

3 minutes ago, NYSkins21 said:

The closer we get, the more I think that Hooker might be the pick at 16 if we’re unable to trade down. And I think I’m pretty okay with it. Would love to end up with Bijan but I think I might be okay with Hooker at 16.

 

we are not good enough we can draft someone to sit, especially when that player is injured

[The Rook]

I know he is projected in the area between the picks, but I really like Keion White. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

[Voice_of_Reason]

35 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

M. Kelly. 

[SoCalSkins]

1 minute ago, Jumbo said:

 

 

Gotta say, and I'm no heavyweight champ on my draft calls, I'd rather not draft a qb that's even close to a lateral move re: Howell's talent/potential.

 

I know Hooker's getting a lot of late buzz and that he's thought of by many media heads to be worth of inclusion, talent wise, with the qbs after stroud and young, but I also remember that prior to some recent members' somewhat  revisionist presentations of Howell's value that last year plenty of the talking heads had a very positive take on him and did indeed have him as top second rd to bottom second and some had him in mid first or thereabouts. His one game is obviously a most limited sample but he looked pretty good.

 

I'd rather we bring in a 5-7th round type of felt necessary with some potential. We have the solid capable vet in house and the young guy with promise for him to tutor, I don't gravitate much towards another closely equivalent guy there in the first four or five rounds when we need other positions badly too.

 

But maybe Hooker is a clear cut above Sam, I'll defer to the forum experts on college players.

Campbell was forced on Zorn. RG3 was forced on Jay. Haskins was forced on Ron. I don’t think we should force a first round QB on the next coach. Particularly a mid first rounder who might be a reach. At best it’s 50/50 if Ron and the Marty’s last more this year. It’s not the time to draft a QB high in my opinion. 

[Skinsinparadise]

43 minutes ago, NYSkins21 said:

The closer we get, the more I think that Hooker might be the pick at 16 if we’re unable to trade down. And I think I’m pretty okay with it. Would love to end up with Bijan but I think I might be okay with Hooker at 16.

 

It would crush my faith in Keim if they took him in the first.  Keim is hardcore that they'd consider him in the 2nd especially if they trade down and pick up another pick and could take him in the late 2nd.  But, otherwise he's hardcore that they are not taking Hooker in the first.

 

When Keim says things with conviction like that, can't recall him ever being wrong.  Albiet granted he can change his tune tomorrow based on whatever he's hearing.

Edited April 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[tmandoug1]

58 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Again, this is the same as nearly everyone else here. No one disagrees.

 

BPA ALWAYS = Player skill + Draft Value + Need + Draft Position
 

I feel like a broken record… but if BPA meant pure BEST there’s be some long snappers and punters taken first overall.

You win.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Just now, SoCalSkins said:

Campbell was forced on Zorn. RG3 was forced on Jay. Haskins was forced on Ron. I don’t think we should force a first round QB on the next coach. Particularly a mid first rounder who might be a reach. At best it’s 50/50 if Ron and the Marty’s last more this year. It’s not the time to draft a QB high in my opinion. 

My God. You made a coherent, cogent, logical point based in reality and facts.  
 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, The Rook said:

I know he is projected in the area between the picks, but I really like Keion White. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

 

 

When I listed my top wants in the 2nd round earlier today, Keion was my top want in the 2nd.  I don't think they take him, though.  😢

 

But he'd be a lot of fun, what a freak, the dude is 285 pounds but has the bend of a 235 pounder.  He's already 24 and was a late bloomer in his career after a posiiton change so that might be the reason he drops.  But he's my favorite pass rusher outside the first round.

 

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

The Athletic. I haven't studied Richardson so I don't have an opinion on him.  But found this interesting, nonetheless

 

 

[SoCalSkins]

12 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

My God. You made a coherent, cogent, logical point based in reality and facts.  
 

You still don’t know the difference between a trade and non exclusive franchise tag so go work on yourself buddy. Thanks. 

[MrJL]

9 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Couple of interesting things that go against the grain of thinking here (or at least my thinking) ...

 

1. Chase Roullier is healthy and back and should be considered the starting OC

2. This staff likes Chris Paul and Saahdiq Charles as starting options at LG

 

So where does that leave Gates? Competition for LG or Center? Wylie is obviously our RT right now, but that could change post-draft. 

 

But if this staff is confident in Leno - Paul/Charles - Roullier/Gates - Cosmi - Wylie ... then maybe OL isn't forced as much as we think. BUT, we definitely need solutions beyond 2023 with Roullier and Leno's big cap hits, and to mitigate the concerns or uncertainties at LG.

 

where did you see this?  Id love to keep Roulier and just have Gates as the new Schweitzer.  Cutting Norwell would save a good chunk of money

[Riggo#44]

24 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

Campbell was forced on Zorn. RG3 was forced on Jay. Haskins was forced on Ron. I don’t think we should force a first round QB on the next coach. Particularly a mid first rounder who might be a reach. At best it’s 50/50 if Ron and the Marty’s last more this year. It’s not the time to draft a QB high in my opinion. 

I was literally screaming this at the radio the other day...

 

...I'm going to need some time to process this. Please respect my privacy in this time of emotional distress.

[dunfer]

Just now, Riggo#44 said:

I was literally screaming this at the radio the other day...

 

...I'm going to need some time to process this. Please respect my privacy in this time of emotional distress.

Its going to just be coaches and scouts in the draft room this year. Theres no way Ron is going with another rookie qb. Hes ride or die with what hes got so get some stuff around him

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Here’s the important question… What should I drink tomorrow? No work on Friday.

[DWinzit]

4 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Here’s the important question… What should I drink tomorrow? No work on Friday.

If at 16 we take a QB or a punter, go for the heavy stuff and hit it often.

Same if we trade up

Edited April 26, 2023 by DWinzit

[mhd24]

According to Lombardi, zona likes Paris Johnson (at least Murray does), Seattle likely won’t take Jalen Carter (they want to trade down for ‘24 picks), and Detroit takes Witherspoon or Carter.  Also Harrison goes higher than anyone expects, and Banks is a top 15 talent in this draft

[NYSkins21]

44 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 

 

Gotta say, and I'm no heavyweight champ on my draft calls, I'd rather not draft a qb that's even close to a lateral move re: Howell's talent/potential.

 

I know Hooker's getting a lot of late buzz and that he's thought of by many media heads to be worth of inclusion, talent wise, with the qbs after stroud and young, but I also remember that prior to some recent members' somewhat  revisionist presentations of Howell's value that last year plenty of the talking heads had a very positive take on him and did indeed have him as top second rd to bottom second and some had him in mid first or thereabouts. His one game is obviously a most limited sample but he looked pretty good.

 

I'd rather we bring in a 5-7th round guy as a likely third on roster if felt necessary, is there's  some potential.

 

We have the solid capable vet in house and the young guy with promise for him to tutor, I don't gravitate much towards another closely equivalent guy there in the first four or five rounds when we need other positions badly too.

 

But maybe Hooker is a clear cut above Sam, I'll defer to the forum experts on college players.

I agree completely with you. But if they DO take Hooker at 16, more than likely the evaluation was made through the eyes of EB. And if EB feels that Hooker offers more than what Howell does, I’m on board.