2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Richardson is intriguing. 

 

He's one of those guys that you don't think you should pass up because of his upside but realize that guys with that kind of upside and are that raw have struggled so you simultaneously believe that you have to pass him up.

 

If he's there at 16... I don't know. I don't think I would. But to have him in a QB room with Howell is intriguing for the next regime, Ron or not. Ultimately, I think I pass. But it's quite a thought. 

I’m with you - quite a thought indeed.  I think I’d only consider it if we could trade back first as the added pick(s) could net you a solid player in the mid rounds, offsetting the fact that Richardson probably isn’t a guy that’s going to help you this year.

 

It’s an odd situation though - the combo of using the 1st round pick on a qb that (likely) won’t be able to help in the short term when regime chance is quite possible, but also passing him off to the next regime similar to how Haskins was passed to Ron… (potentially) adding some confusion/uncertainty for a new regime.

 

One thing I’ll give Ron is he seems serious about sustainability, and I could see him wanting to set up his replacement to succeed… and qb is a big part of that.  And lastly, albeit maybe a minor consideration, I think it’s possible the new owner sees the qb potential (if Richardson were the pick) and decides to give RR a bit more time (and thus providing Howell/Richardson a bit of the structure/consistency young qbs need).

[Chris 44]

32 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Implications of doing this the day before the draft? Possibly waiting to see if anyone offers up a trade?

[Redskins 2021]

 I would not draft Richardson. He has all the skills in the world but has not put it together.

 

I can't think of any Qb who were projects coming into the NFL and were successful. I would like to see Howell given a chance if he does not play well we will be picking high anyway.

Edited April 26, 2023 by Redskins 2021

[skinny21]

Interesting timing announcing not picking up the 5th year option now, rather than waiting to see what the draft brings…

 

Correct me if I’m wrong, but it doesn’t seem a necessary step in terms of letting the league know you might be up for trading him… they could just leak that he’s on the trading block.

 

 

Separate note - I wonder what impact losing our db coach has on the idea of coaching up a rook (or 2) in the secondary?  

Edit:  Given the growth curve for Curl, Forrest, and St Juste… I’m not sure we can assume development for others goes as swimmingly.

Edited April 26, 2023 by skinny21

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I'll say the drafting/mismanagement of this DL at the expense of other positions (OL specifically, QB) is and should get Ron and Co fired.

 

If we draft another DE in the 1st, I'll be SO done with them. And it has nothing to do with the fact that they drafted a DE in the 1st round because we DO need long-term solutions there. It has more to do with their absolute mismanagement of the DL in general.

 

Drafting Mathis in R2 only to franchise tag and extend Payne is a perfect example. We clearly did that for depth but also in anticipating of Payne walking. Now we have a high-priced R2 backup DT, when we could have gotten away with getting that role filled by a later pick (or a pick this year). 

 

Same can be said for DE. Drafting a Myles Murphy to be a 3rd rusher so that we can let a 2020 #2 overall pick walk after 2023 is not only poor drafting, but poor roster management. It would be smart roster management to draft replacements for impending free agents if the team was more built out and complete. But they've been implementing that strategy ONLY along the DL at the expense of other positions, and it sucks.

 

Drafting a 5th round DE this year would be the move. Not a 1st round. I hope they prove me wrong.

 

Many experts and local media folks thought we were over-investing in the DL and at some point we'd have to pay all these guys once their rookie contracts expired. I argued you could do that by drafting cheap backups for a few years while extending the studs. But once that strategy of all 4 being studs blew up in our faces (to an extent, NFL is unpredictable and they all could still prove out studs), then it's time to move to a diff. strategy/invest elsewhere. But doubling down on drafting DL every year in R1 and R2 at the expense of other spots is not smart.

 

We can deal with a rookie 2nd round DE next year if we let Sweat or Young walk. Draft a 5th round DE this year so that you have depth/3rd rusher type on the roster so you don't have to fill 2 DE spots next year.

 

/rant

Edited April 26, 2023 by JamesMadisonSkins

[Redskins 2021]

 I was reading they really like Murphy. I would keep Young if he is bad this year and leaves we still get a thrid round comp pick.

[Skinsinparadise]

59 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

I'll say the drafting/mismanagement of this DL at the expense of other positions (OL specifically, QB) is and should get Ron and Co fired.

 

If we draft another DE in the 1st, I'll be SO done with them. And it has nothing to do with the fact that they drafted a DE in the 1st round because we DO need long-term solutions there. It has more to do with their absolute mismanagement of the DL in general.

 

Drafting Mathis in R2 only to franchise tag and extend Payne is a perfect example. We clearly did that for depth but also in anticipating of Payne walking. Now we have a high-priced R2 backup DT, when we could have gotten away with getting that role filled by a later pick (or a pick this year). 

 

Same can be said for DE. Drafting a Myles Murphy to be a 3rd rusher so that we can let a 2020 #2 overall pick walk after 2023 is not only poor drafting, but poor roster management. It would be smart roster management to draft replacements for impending free agents if the team was more built out and complete. But they've been implementing that strategy ONLY along the DL at the expense of other positions, and it sucks.

 

Drafting a 5th round DE this year would be the move. Not a 1st round. I hope they prove me wrong.

 

Many experts and local media folks thought we were over-investing in the DL and at some point we'd have to pay all these guys once their rookie contracts expired. I argued you could do that by drafting cheap backups for a few years while extending the studs. But once that strategy of all 4 being studs blew up in our faces (to an extent, NFL is unpredictable and they all could still prove out studs), then it's time to move to a diff. strategy/invest elsewhere. But doubling down on drafting DL every year in R1 and R2 at the expense of other spots is not smart.

 

We can deal with a rookie 2nd round DE next year if we let Sweat or Young walk. Draft a 5th round DE this year so that you have depth/3rd rusher type on the roster so you don't have to fill 2 DE spots next year.

 

/rant

 

I don't fault them for much.  They locked in both Payne and Allen.  Previous regimes tended to lose some of their higher draft picks over time.

 

They only drafted one of the 4 D linemen and the one they drafted was a ballyhooed pick, and certainly no reason IMO to can him for taking, he was a stud in college, but alas got hurt, stuff happens.

 

This team under EVERY regime doesn't move assets for trade capital.  But I put that on Dan for building a culture like that.  You need to have the owner to have your back when it comes to trading established players for high picks.

 

Personally, i don't care about the past when it comes to the next draft.    The Eagles keep loading up on D line and O line and they don't get criticized for it and from what I am reading they plan on doing it again.   They have better depth on the D line arguably than any other team, yet some think they will still take Van Ness. 

 

I agree to build the O line and it feels like they are on it.  We got 8 picks, so their big moves aren't all about the first round.   It's not like they've had a bad O line their whole tenure.  It was bad last year.   But I am on board Eagles style to keep BOTH lines strong. 

 

So in short if they rate Van Ness or Murphy as a 95 lets say and Anton Harrison as an 85.  Take the edge if that's how the board falls. Especially if you traded down lets say and added a pick which can help you improve the O line.

Edited April 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Ben Allbright seems to be one of the most connected guys out there year in and year out.

 

He has his one and only mock draft out, a bit of a delay on OTs and then us smack dab in the middle of a run

 

9. Bears - Skoronski

15. Jets - Paris Johnson

16. Commanders - Broderick Jones

17. Steelers - Darnell Wright

 

I'll take that. Any one of those 4 would make me happy for different reasons. Jones probably has the most raw talent, upside to be a stud LT, but we could start him at RT pretty easily.

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't fault them for much.  They locked in both Payne and Allen.  Previous regimes tended to lose some of their higher draft picks over time.

 

I do fault Rivera as the GM/Coach (which is he, Mayhew is not a true GM). 

 

He played the cards right on DTs and McLaurin and I appreciate that we've held onto the talent.

 

What I do question is, in hindsight, drafting a DE at #2 (yes we all though he was all world) over a QB. Hindsight is 20/20, but sure do wish we had Tua (yes Tua) or Herbert at QB

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

 

What I do question is, in hindsight, drafting a DE at #2 (yes we all though he was all world) over a QB. Hindsight is 20/20, but sure do wish we had Tua (yes Tua) or Herbert at QB

 

OK but if its about taking Chase Young.  Fireable offense seems a bit severe.  Chase got off to a hot start.  Started his 2nd year with a sophomore slump then got hurt.  That's the whole story so far.  He showed flashes in his return.  It's not over for Chase.  Lets see this season.

 

Overall, Ron has mostly drafted well IMO.  

Edited April 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[JamesMadisonSkins]

This echoes my initial thoughts (not the "we're trading him") like others have stated as their initial reactions.

 

 

 

Teams might think we are inclined to draft DE now. Which might prompt some trade-ups. 

 

If Eagles go CB or RB at #10, maybe they trade up with Green Bay or the Jets at 13/15 to try and get Van Ness or Nolan Smith. That could push a team looking at OT away from OT before our pick. 

 

Or ... a team like Pittsburgh might be less inclined to try to jump us to get an OT if they think we're focused on DE more than OT.

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by JamesMadisonSkins

[Jumbo]

32 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

I'll say the drafting/mismanagement of this DL at the expense of other positions (OL specifically, QB) is and should get Ron and Co fired.

 

If we draft another DE in the 1st, I'll be SO done with them. And it has nothing to do with the fact that they drafted a DE in the 1st round because we DO need long-term solutions there. It has more to do with their absolute mismanagement of the DL in general.

 

Drafting Mathis in R2 only to franchise tag and extend Payne is a perfect example. We clearly did that for depth but also in anticipating of Payne walking. Now we have a high-priced R2 backup DT, when we could have gotten away with getting that role filled by a later pick (or a pick this year). 

 

Same can be said for DE. Drafting a Myles Murphy to be a 3rd rusher so that we can let a 2020 #2 overall pick walk after 2023 is not only poor drafting, but poor roster management. It would be smart roster management to draft replacements for impending free agents if the team was more built out and complete. But they've been implementing that strategy ONLY along the DL at the expense of other positions, and it sucks.

 

Drafting a 5th round DE this year would be the move. Not a 1st round. I hope they prove me wrong.

 

Many experts and local media folks thought we were over-investing in the DL and at some point we'd have to pay all these guys once their rookie contracts expired. I argued you could do that by drafting cheap backups for a few years while extending the studs. But once that strategy of all 4 being studs blew up in our faces (to an extent, NFL is unpredictable and they all could still prove out studs), then it's time to move to a diff. strategy/invest elsewhere. But doubling down on drafting DL every year in R1 and R2 at the expense of other spots is not smart.

 

We can deal with a rookie 2nd round DE next year if we let Sweat or Young walk. Draft a 5th round DE this year so that you have depth/3rd rusher type on the roster so you don't have to fill 2 DE spots next year.

 

/rant

 

But an impressive rant, even some fairly arguable points. 😛

 

It had a good beat and was easy to dance to. I gave it a 85. 😁

 

(American Bandstand Rate-a-Record reference for members under 90 years old).

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

1 minute ago, Jumbo said:

 

But an impressive rant, even some fairly arguable points. 😛

 

It had a good beat and was easy to dance to. I gave it a 85. 😁

 

(American Bandstand Rate-a-Record reference for members under 90 years old).

 

 

I stand corrected ... I do think Rivera and Mayhew have drafted pretty well. They have hit on quite a few of their picks, especially late. And every GM makes mistakes. I do think Ron in a psuedo GM role makes him susceptible to not thinking too clearly about the future, more focused on the winning now. It's what got us Fitzpatrick. Wentz. Obsessing over the DL.

 

But all-in-all he's been pretty solid in the drafts. Just hope we don't draft a DE in R1 so that we can really get some high-end talent on the OL. That's all I ask!

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I am re-watching guys today.  Focusing on players, I think they might take and my draft man crush is growing for Quan Martin.  I don't think he's a mile off Brian Branch.  And if they are looking for ball skills, his picks were really impressive, some of them were awesome reads-catches.

 

I like his teammate, too, Sydney Brown.  Watched him today on GMF with his brother.   It would be ironic if they drafted both of the Brown brothers.  Both seem to fit that 4th round range give or take.   High character players.    Brown had 6 picks which is insane but 5 out of the 6 came off lucky -- right place at the right time where the Qb basically just threw the ball right to him.  But i'll credit him for catching the ball.  Sydney though is a bit more erratic against the run game -- missing tackles.  Quan on the other hand is a lot like Branch, high floor, does IMO everything well -- coverage, tackling, etc. 

 

I didn't put him on my 2nd round wish list because judging by mocks he's going later.  But screw those mocks. i am revising my list.  I think he's a good pick at 47.   

 

One difference with Branch is he can play outside corner well.  So if the board in the end doesn't fall their way where they end up both with a high end corner and safety -- this dude can cover both things and you can slot him anywhere.  Slot corner, outside corner, Big Nickle, FS.

 

He's a better athlete than Branch, I think better ball skills do, and is even more of a swiss amry knife than Branch.  I still put Branch a half a peg higher because he's elite as a tackler and his play recognition is off the charts.  But Quan Martin IMO isn't that far behind.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

This feels like a 2 minute video to break through the noise but i doubt he does it until later in the day.

 

 

 

It’s been reported a few days back the Texans are all over Hendon Hooker for #12

[TradeTheBeal!]

I smell FAT BOYS…and it smells good!

[Est.1974]

59 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Drafting Mathis in R2 only to franchise tag and extend Payne is a perfect example. We clearly did that for depth but also in anticipating of Payne walking. Now we have a high-priced R2 backup DT, when we could have gotten away with getting that role filled by a later pick (or a pick this year). 

Mathis is on a 4 year 7m deal total. I’d wage over time he proves very valuable behind Allen and Payne.

[KDawg]

I don’t understand the displeasure with drafting a defensive end in the first. You take the best player. And, in theory, I’d agree it’s a strange move given Sweat or Young. But I think it’s too early to form a take.

 

If we draft an end… then turn around and we find out Young or Sweat was traded for draft capital, is it still a mistake? Have to give it time to play out and not be reactionary.

 

It’s okay to say, “yeah, not sure I understand this. I feel *insert emotion* about the player, but why an end? Let’s see how it plays out.”

 

And Mathis is depth at one of the most heavily rotated positions in the NFL which we haven’t been rotating. And he’s fairly cheap. Why the disdain? 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by KDawg

[Est.1974]

45 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

What I do question is, in hindsight,

Hindsight. That old chestnut....

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

I don’t understand the displeasure with drafting a defensive end in the first. You take the best player. And, in theory, I’d agree it’s a strange move given Sweat or Young. But I think it’s too early to form a take.

 

If we draft an end… then turn around and we find out Young or Sweat was traded for draft capital, is it still a mistake? Have to give it time to play out and not be reactionary.

 

It’s okay to say, “yeah, not sure I understand this. I feel *insert emotion* about the player, but why an end? Let’s see how it plays out.”

 

 

Me neither. It’s baffling. Now if we took a DT I’d say what the Hell.

Edited April 26, 2023 by Est.1974

[Koolblue13]

Mthis was the answer for Settle and Iaon, not Payne.

[Est.1974]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I didn't put him on my 2nd round wish list because judging by mocks he's going later.  But screw those mocks. i am revising my list.  I think he's a good pick at 47.   

I’d buy into him a lot as well, however this 16,47,97 combo really sucks at the minute.

[bowhunter]

2 hours ago, actorguy1 said:

16. Washington Commanders: Broderick Jones, OT, Georgia

 

B. Jones would make me smile

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Fine, I guess I'm letting my desire to address the OL get in the way of what we should do, which is mostly go BPA.

 

If I could just guarantee that we get ourselves 1-2 solid long-term investments on the OL, I really won't be that angry about what we do at #16 regardless.

 

If we trade down and accumulate picks in R2 and R3, you can draft 2 DEs and a DT and I wouldn't care, as long as we got ourselves an OT. That's what it ends up boiling down to for me.

[Skinsinparadise]

Quan not only can help them on the field.  But can help them winning off the field -- cutting hair, cooking. 

 

 

https://247sports.com/college/illinois/Article/Illini-DB-Prince-Green-enters-transfer-portal-198935533/

 

Quan Martin 'a hidden gem' and a leader for the improved Illini defense

INDIANAPOLIS. — The schedule of a college football player, no less a transplant to Illinois from Florida, doesn’t exactly open the door to take trips home during the Thanksgiving holiday. That time is spent preparing for the final game of the regular season, and for Illinois, that means film and practice time readying for in-state rival Northwestern.

 

...Martin grew up wanting to be a chef, but a burgeoning football career will likely put that on the backburner as he enters his final year of collegiate eligibility as a versatile defensive back for the Illini, who has played cornerback, safety and nickel for Illinois during his first four seasons.

 

...“Quan’s kind of like the hidden gem,” teammate Chase Brown told Illini Inquirer.

 

Though neither Chase Brown nor Sydney Brown have actually had Martin’s food — something that is likely to change over the course of the year — they know he’s got a passion for cooking. Martin’s also a bit of a team barber, a skill he picked up watching YouTube videos when barber shops around campus were closed due to COVID-19 pandemic. More recently, Martin’s girlfriend purchased a barber chair for his apartment as teammates pass through his home for a haircut.

 

Did anyone mention the dunk contest that Martin participated in at City of Palms in which he tried to jump over a person on one dunk and went for a windmill dunk on another? He didn’t win, but the video of the contest lives in a bit of lore and is fairly difficult to find, save for a slow-motion 21-second video of one of the dunks.

 

More than any of his off-field interests, Martin has earned the respect of the entire locker room. He’s the guy, the coaches say, who does everything right. Martin is one of the leaders during offseason workouts, constantly pushing teammates in the bitterness of the winter or the heat of the summer.

 

“He can jump. He’s a barber,” Illini wide receiver Isaiah Williams said. “He cuts a lot of people’s on the team hair. He cooks. He a laid-back dude, but at the same time, he’s hard-working. He's really a leader.”

 

In fact, when Williams — one of the top athletes on the team and one of the most prolific offensive playmakers — gets to choose an opponent in offseason workouts, he generally looks Martin’s way. Williams doesn’t want an easy win and knows Martin will push him to the very limit. The two go back and forth in practice given their positions, but the summer workouts are where the stories are generated.

“The first person I went to was Quan and that wasn’t because I felt like I was going to beat him,” Williams said when recounting how he chose his summer workout partner. “It was because every single rep we was going to battle. I knew every single rep he was going to give me his best, and I was going to give him my best. That’s something I look forward to. Every single rep you know Quan is going to give it his all.

 

“I promise you every time I’m going to pick Quan. Nobody else. I might say Chase or Syd just because they just gifted and unique, and I just want that challenge. If it’s just one person, it’s going to be Quan.”

 

...Among Illinois defensive players to play at least 100 snaps, Martin had the seventh-best defensive grade. He also had the third-best coverage grade of all Illinois defensive players with at least 100 snaps in coverage. He had the best tackling grade of any Illini, per PFF, and was only charged with three missed tackles all year, and zero in the final seven weeks.

“I love the position,” Martin said. “It’s a great spot for me to showcase my ability and be able to help my team, and Coach Walters puts us in great positions every time.”

 

 

...“His versatility allows us to do what we do schematically,” Walters said. “He’s like an extra corner out there, but he’s as physical as a safety and he’s got the IQ of a quarterback.”

 

... Quan brings it every single day. He works his tail off. He’s tough, he’s smart, he knows how to play ball. I can look at him on the field if I need help and vice versa. It’s nice to look to my side and know that I’ve got a vet beside me.”

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Same can be said for DE. Drafting a Myles Murphy to be a 3rd rusher so that we can let a 2020 #2 overall pick walk after 2023 is not only poor drafting, but poor roster management. It would be smart roster management to draft replacements for impending free agents if the team was more built out and complete. But they've been implementing that strategy ONLY along the DL at the expense of other positions, and it sucks.

 

 

Agreed 100%. You don't get better building this way. You're just fixing holes to stay afloat but essentially staying the same. Its awful usage of resources.

 

Ideally if you know you're gonna lose a guy you draft a potential replacement in the middle rounds who can sit and learn for a year and then potentially take over the next year. Not by burning 1st rounders.

 

Ultimately though I do not believe we'll be taking a DL in the 1st.