2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Rex Tomb]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Logan Paulsen

Logan Paulsen for GM or lead scout - that dude knows so much about prospects it's incredible.

[El Mexican]

1 hour ago, Rex Tomb said:

Except Kelce was a 3rd rounder.  No need to spend big draft capital on a TE.  If we go tight end and a good OT is on the board:

 

Kelce yes, but Tony G was a 1st round pick.

 

I can't shake the feeling Bieniemy will push hard for a TE bc it's been a mark of success in KC.

Dude carries some serious clout as Assitant HC and combined with the diminishing importance of Dan we could see some clarity in our drafting strategy for once.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, Rex Tomb said:

Logan Paulsen for GM or lead scout - that dude knows so much about prospects it's incredible.

 

He's great, I agree.   There are some people on this thread that i am good at remembering who they like because if I haven't watched the player, I'll note to do it.  And I know they watch a lot of players so if ones stand out it gets my attention.

 

But there are no one within the local media that fits that for me except for Logan Paulsen.  I don't always agree with him but I usually do.  He watches a lot of players, and has really good takes.  And as an ex-player, he brings expertise that helps me learn when he explains spots.  He's a gem.  Even better than Cooley when he used to do this stuff.

Edited April 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[“Misdirection”]

Doesn’t surprise me they’re out on Porter. His strength is as a man corner, no? 
 

Ron and Mayhew were fairly outspoken about how they missed on William Jackson III and they will not make the same goof on scheme fit on a corner even in the draft. 

[Skinsinparadise]

More Keim

 

A.  they'd like to add picks

 

B.  He knows they like Branch but not so sure they'd take him.  But then goes he's not sure.

 

C.  They want to add a hybrid safety type

 

D.  Want another LB.  He mentioned maybe Jack Campbell in the 2nd.  (boy would that make my day, i said the other day it wouldn't shock me on reflection in part because of the Kuechly connection).  Mentioned Henley later on. 

 

E.  Not Hooker in the first.  

 

F.  Want a defensive end.  Could be lower in the draft.   That's a departure from could be edge or pass rushing LB.   This time he referenced setting the edge.  Sounds like he's referencing a complete type of edge player.  

 

G.  DJ Turner, Kelee Ringo, Cam Smith in the 2nd round range

 

H. Mentioned Luke Musgrave and Sam Laporta again.  For Laporta he goes if he checks out.  i assume he's suggesting medical.  Walter Football mentioned there is some medical concern so maybe that's what he was implying. 

 

I.  Want a RB

Edited April 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Wright is who I want at #16. Unfortunately I don’t think we can trade down and still get him. So my dream of Wright and adding picks is unlikely. But nice to see we like Harrison in a trade down scenario. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Got to give Keim props.  He's been slower as to giving info about players they like compared to past years.  But he really went to town on this podcast, I am actually relistening to it again because he threw so much detail. 

 

Speaking of which on 2nd listen it feels like it won't be Branch even though they like the player because they like the depth in this draft at that sort of hybrid safety spot.  Sounds like they see Branch more as a FS than a hybrid.

 

I've mentioned before judging by mocks the safety spot seems a bit weird.  Guys are unlikely going to go too early.  But in that third to 4th round range IMO there are about 8 players or so with similar ability that are hard to distinguish.  So cool, sounds like they see it that way, too. 

 

He did say they might consider a 3-4 edge pass rusher that they'd convert to LB

 

Keim isn't buying that Hookier is a lock to go in the first.  

 

He mentioned Forbes too as to CBs. 

 

Referenced Kuntz (The TE from ODU)

 

He also mentioned maybe the 2nd round if not the first round for the TE.  I've heard him express the point like that before. 

To extrapolate some meaning from that. Maybe his point is if they trade deep in the first and there is a surprise faller at TE there, they might consider.  But he didn't say that.   But he's referenced Kincaid before and multiple times but not in tonight's podcast. 

 

So my best tea leaves guess is if they trade down deep in the first and Kincaid is there they'd consider. 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

Maybe the medical issue on Laporta moves him back a little and more reachable for us, like....at 47

 

Campbell will need to be at the beginning of the 2nd round

 

Wright/Campbell would be a serious 1/2 punch to our lineup

[JamesMadisonSkins]

2 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Maybe the medical issue on Laporta moves him back a little and more reachable for us, like....at 47

 

Campbell will need to be at the beginning of the 2nd round

 

Wright/Campbell would be a serious 1/2 punch to our lineup

I want a world where we could get both but idk if we could. 
 

Edge and RB seem to be two spots we could target in the 5th-7th range. But with 1-2-3-4 it’ll be tough to hit OT, IOL, LB, S, CB, TE and bring in starting caliber talent beyond 3 spots out of the gate. I’m cool with IOL depth and TE depth and assume LB, DB, OT get targeted early. But I want a TE in this deep class. And a Center. 

[MrJL]

40 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 i hope you do a my guys list.  I bet we have some overlap.   Obviously Stromberg, Pace in the mix for me. I'll post mine tomorrow. 

 

Trying to think of a major disagreement this season, usually we got a player or two.  I know Doran Thompson-Robinson  but that's a late rounder so boring argument -- I see him as a late 6th round flier.

 

Our O line takes are similar off the top of my head.  We are both higher than most on Mauch, Bergeron. Neither love Avila.  i think you are though more down on Avila than me.  I think I am slightly higher on Anton Harrison if I recall.  I don't recall if you have a take on Zavala.

 

As for Stromberg, we both like him.  But I get the vibe i might like some of the other centers a little more than you do. 

 

Both love Jack Campbell.  You liked Henley so do I -- and you were on him first.   I think we both aren't as high as some on Drew Sanders.

 

I think you are a little higher on Joey Porter.  I pushed DJ Turner, don't recall if you had a take on him.  DJ Turner is the other dude I feel some favoritism towards -- watched early in the process.

 

We both like Laporta, high on Darnell Washington.  I think you are more of a Charlie Jones guy, but i like him too.

 

 

 

Some have said including Logan Paulsen that he's a better guard.

 

in KC he seemed to only move to tackle when someone was hurt

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

I want a world where we could get both but idk if we could. 
 

Edge and RB seem to be two spots we could target in the 5th-7th range. But with 1-2-3-4 it’ll be tough to hit OT, IOL, LB, S, CB, TE and bring in starting caliber talent beyond 3 spots out of the gate. I’m cool with IOL depth and TE depth and assume LB, DB, OT get targeted early. But I want a TE in this deep class. And a Center. 

 

Keim referencing they like safeties later in the draft I find to be telling.  Because when you go through this draft -- safety and RB and DE in particular seem good in the 3rd-5th round range. 

 

Safety isn't that strong but there IMO is a group of C plus, B minus players likely in that 4th round range.

 

Listening to Keim they want O line, CB, S, LB, Edge, TE, RB.  Maybe QB #3.  TE isn't a must but its on their radar.  That's a long shopping list.  Seems like it begs for trade downs.  

Edited April 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[method man]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I ironically just listened to that Logan Paulsen podcast you are referencing.  

 

I am on the same page with Paulsen on some of his points.  We both have draft man crushes on Keion White.   We both like Banks over Porter.  We both like Harrison and like him over B. Jones. We both see Bergeron as sort of the last of the Mohicans at tackle and see him as a good fit here.    Like him, i do agree that Josh Whyle is underrated. 

 

My one disagreement with him is he's not high on the fit of Dalton Kincaid to this team but he seems to have backed off on that recently.  And your take the other day about the TE from what I recall echo Paulsen's thoughts on it -- specifically as to them being high on who they have internally.  But I am getting the impression that the FO might have shifted in that thinking recently as to interest in a TE and if so I gather Bieiniemy is the reason for it.

 

But lol yeah I've listened to Logan Paulsen put cold water on the TE talk again and again.   He thinks the spot is all about traits.  And Armani Rodgers has all the tools. Cole Turner with the catch radius and Curtis Hodges has bulked up in the off season. My come back to that is none of them showed last year that they are durable.  To their defense its a tough spot to maintain durability.  Ditto Logan Thomas through his career.   So even if they have enough of them as to numbers -- what are the odds that they are all healthy to start the season?

 

And are we really riding on a dude who caught 5 passes in his pro-college career combined?  I get betting on traits.  But to just assume he's the ticket seems  aggressive for my taste.   Hodges is an undrafted free agent.  Cole Turner was one of my favs in the last draft, but he couldn't stay healthy in year 1.  And Logan Thomas if I recall was the worst blocking TE in the NFL last year.    So while i get Logan's take that hey we might have the answers at TE, so there might not be the need to do anything -- I disagree with him about that albiet he's backed off the point some recently.  But everything else almost I am on the same page with him. 

 

I heard his take about Gibbs.  Will see.  Definitely not something he heard but something he is guessing about.  I can't see them chasing Gibbs though unless he falls to their 2nd round pick.

 

As for Bergeron I brought him up in the context of trading down deep in the first -- I didn't say 16, don't think anyone else here said 16 either.  So i think we are all on the same page.

 

Like @KDawg I'd be good with Gibbs.  I'd be good with B. Robinson, too.  I am open to a lot of things right now.

On Gibbs, you’ve gotta remember Logan played for EB at UCLA when he was RB coach there so he probably has some insider knowledge on what EB looks for on his backs. The thinking makes sense if you have some sketchiness at tackle, which we currently have. The RB will be your last line of defense.

 

His key point is that Thomas is supposedly a bigtime leader relative to other vets and had been key for all those young TEs. Keim keeps stressing that they think his blocking ability will come back next year once he has more confidence in his knee. On TE, I would personally let Logan Thomas go and find a replacement in Day 2. I personally don’t think it is worth taking a lower end guy like Mallory or a project like the ODU guy in Day 3. They need to be looking at a Day 1 starter who can replace Thomas and guys like LaPorta and Musgrave have the resumes to do that and the athletic backgrounds they like

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, method man said:

On Gibbs, you’ve gotta remember Logan played for EB at UCLA when he was RB coach there so he probably has some insider knowledge on what EB looks for on his backs. The thinking makes sense if you have some sketchiness at tackle, which we currently have. The RB will be your last line of defense.

 

His key point is that Thomas is supposedly a bigtime leader relative to other vets and had been key for all those young TEs. Keim keeps stressing that they think his blocking ability will come back next year once he has more confidence in his knee. On TE, I would personally let Logan Thomas go and find a replacement in Day 2. I personally don’t think it is worth taking a lower end guy like Mallory or a project like the ODU guy in Day 3. They need to be looking at a Day 1 starter who can replace Thomas and guys like LaPorta and Musgrave have the resumes to do that and the athletic backgrounds they like

 

Sure, I recall Logan's connection to Bieinemy.  I try to catch everything Paulsen.  I like him almost as much as Keim.  But he's still guessing on his point about Gibbs -- educated guess, granted.  

 

As for Logan Thomas, I've heard multiple narratives.  But the impression I get is he's not a lock to return.  Yeah I've heard Keim say they thought Logan improved at the end of the season.  But I've also got the impression they want to see how Logan looks during the OTAs.  And if lets say they draft someone high and Logan doesn't look hot he could be a cap casualty. 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[JamesMadisonSkins]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Keim referencing they like safeties later in the draft I find to be telling.  Because when you go through this draft -- safety and RB and DE in particular seem good in the 3rd-5th round range. 

 

Safety isn't that strong but there IMO is a group of C plus, B minus players likely in that 4th round range.

We’ve drafted SAF well the last few years. Curl(7), Forrest(5) and Butler(4). Given the 2nd year emergence of Forrest I’d have high hopes for Butler in 2023. That said, adding another versatile safety in the 4th-6th along with a R2 or R3 CB would round out the secondary nicely. 
 

I agree, a trade down or two would go a long ways. We need 2 more picks in the R2-3 range IMO. And we can’t get Wright and do that unfortunately. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Traded 16 to Chiefs for 31/63/95

Traded 47/150 to GB for 57/78

 

1.31: Anton Harrison, OT Oklahoma

2.57: Jack Campbell, LB Iowa

2.63: Sam Laporta, TE Iowa

3.78: Jartavius Martin, S Illinois

3.95: Eli Ricks, CB Bama

3.97: Ricky Stromberg, C Arkansas

4.118: Roschon Johnson, RB Texas

6.193: Yasir Abdullah, DE/LB Lousiclle

6.215: Viliami Fehoko, DE San Jose State

7.233: Tyson Bagent, QB Shepard 

 

Yes, I know the players won’t all be there at those picks. But the gist of the trade down/positions addressed and where they’re addressed is what I’m trying to emulate 

[Skinsinparadise]

31 minutes ago, method man said:

On TE, I would personally let Logan Thomas go and find a replacement in Day 2. I personally don’t think it is worth taking a lower end guy like Mallory or a project like the ODU guy in Day 3. They need to be looking at a Day 1 starter who can replace Thomas and guys like LaPorta and Musgrave have the resumes to do that and the athletic backgrounds they like

 

In general, I'd love one of the upper tier guys.  The type of players Keim has mentioned gives me the vibe they want an F-move type TE more so than a Y.  So Kincaid, Musgrave, Laporta.  Would fit that.  Kuntz, too. 

 

But I am good with taking one later.  Sticking with Logan Paulsen's point about its about traits.  Does it get anymore trait driven than Kuntz?

 

Will Mallory in this draft for example isn't one of the higher ranked ones in this specific group but IMO in a typical draft he might be a third rounder.  In this draft he will likely drop lower -- 5th-6th I'd guess.

 

Coming from a dude who actually liked Cole Turner last year, and touted him here.  I don't know if I'd rate Turner a better player than Mallory.  They are different.  They are both move F TE's -- but otherwise different players.  Cole was one of the slowest TEs in the last draft.  Mallory is the fastest.  Mallory is the better YAC player and IMO is more explosive and can stretch the field. Turner has better hands-catch radius, he can stretch the field too but not as explosive as Mallory IMO.  Both are willing blockers but are meh at it. 

 

lol, I've had to defend Mallory lately more than any other player.  Makes me feel like he might end up the TE they draft for that reason alone.   Years ago before that draft, the dude I had to defend multiple times to multiple posters was Terry McLaurin including the morning before we took him in the draft.

 

I didn't love Jamin Davis but i liked him and got into some long debate on him on the draft thread at the time.

 

So I might be a jinx to some posters here when they don't want a player.  People might be speaking into existance us taking Will Mallory.  

 

They haven't poked around on Mallory from what i can tell.  But IMO he so fits what they are looking for if they are looking for an F TE and don't end up with one of the higher end TEs.  Mallory would fit character wise too -- up Rivera's alley on that front.  through the roof on that front from what i read. 

 

I am not the only one who digs Mallory in the mid to late rounds.  i think for a later round TE he has a higher floor than the typical TE, and will drop because of the depth at that spot. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[JamesMadisonSkins]

thanks @Skinsinparadise on Mallory. I’ve been wanting a R5 range TE to keep my eyes on in the event we don’t trade down in R1 and thus have to create capital later, or pushing some positions to be addressed later (like TE)

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

thanks @Skinsinparadise on Mallory. I’ve been wanting a R5 range TE to keep my eyes on in the event we don’t trade down in R1 and thus have to create capital later, or pushing some positions to be addressed later (like TE)

 

Aside from Mallory, there are a bunch of TEs I like in that range.  Schoonmaker, Strange, Whyle, Kuntz.  I like Kraft but I think he's gone by the early 3rd though.  After those players, Davis Allen.

 

Mallory specifically would be the poor man's version (but not that poor) of the other TEs they seem to like according to Keim.  He plays in a similar style, more so than some of the other mid range TEs so for that reason he's on my radar.  Kuntz, too who Keim mentioned and I know they met with, so clearly they have interest in him.

 

The dude that sort of falls in that category too is Shoonmaker.  He's not as fast or as good of a YAC player as Mallory but IMO he's a more complete player -- and has decent speed, too. He's close to Kuntz stlyistically IMO.

 

McGinn's scouts talked about the class below.  i read somewhere one media draftnik was told by a personnel guy there might be 10 TEs off the board through the third round.  this isn't an ordinary draft for that spot.  the 8th best TE this year might be the 3rd best in the typical draft.   So i am not hung up on what round they fall and where they rank within their group.  Also arguably some of these guys are really close in ability IMO.

 

So sorry if its too many players I am mentioning but it sort of makes my point -- there are so many of these guys.  But If I had to guess on three TEs outside of the third round that they might be interested in based on the profile of Laporta, Kincaid, Musgrave.  I'd go.

 

1.  Kuntz -- Keim falt out said they are interested.

2. Shoonmaker -- he fits that athletic mode and to some extent play -- but not perfectly

3.  Mallory -- fits both the athletic mode and style of play

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

I like Mallory. I like a lot of TEs. Day 3 is going to open with a TE/LBer frenzy IMO.

[method man]

I get the sense that all the good outside CBs will be gone by the comp pick and we'll be left with the nickel types. Wish they still had their own 3rd in this draft

[Est.1974]

19 minutes ago, method man said:

I get the sense that all the good outside CBs will be gone by the comp pick and we'll be left with the nickel types. Wish they still had their own 3rd in this draft

Yep I think the fundamental thing we need to address is where we pick. Only 2 picks before that comp pick is really bugging me 

[BrentMeisterGeneral]

Absolutely buzzing for tomorrow, can't come soon enough!!!

 

I'd be happy with anyone from Paris Johnson, Peter Skowronski, Broderick Jones, Devon Witherspoon, Christian Gonzalez, Joey Porter Jr, Dalton Kincaid or Bijan Robinson.

 

For me and it won't be popular but the ideal result would be trade back and draft Michael Mayer. The blocking and play making could mean massive flexibility for the offence, Beinemy will know how to use him and it would make our O a lot less predictable. Can't wait to get to 16 and for Ron to draft somebody iv never ever heard of as per usual 😁

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Traded 16 to Chiefs for 31/63/95

Traded 47/150 to GB for 57/78

 

1.31: Anton Harrison, OT Oklahoma

2.57: Jack Campbell, LB Iowa

2.63: Sam Laporta, TE Iowa

3.78: Jartavius Martin, S Illinois

3.95: Eli Ricks, CB Bama

3.97: Ricky Stromberg, C Arkansas

4.118: Roschon Johnson, RB Texas

6.193: Yasir Abdullah, DE/LB Lousiclle

6.215: Viliami Fehoko, DE San Jose State

7.233: Tyson Bagent, QB Shepard 

 

Yes, I know the players won’t all be there at those picks. But the gist of the trade down/positions addressed and where they’re addressed is what I’m trying to emulate 

 

That's a killer draft for me.  I initially liked Ricks somewhat way back but have read injury and character concerns so he's off my list so to speak now.   Roschon is my favorite RB among the mid rounder types but I'd be surprised if he's picked here -- too similar I think to Brian Robinson.  In that range in the 4th, maybe Spears or Kendre Miller or Bigsby for me as to bringing a Rb who is a little different than who we got.

 

Maybe Israel Abanikanda.   I forgot to mention on the RBs, from McGinn's scouts, nothing too revealing on that front.  The two things that jumped out to me is Spears is missing an ACL in one of his legs, so I gather he might drop for that reason.  And they said Abandikanda is not the swiftest dude intellectually.

 

Abdullah is one of my late round favs. 

 

Fehoko is a hard one for me to figure out, I watched him on and off and never wrote anything up about him.  He's so producitve. But he also is not the most athletic guy and he mostly beat up on inferior competiton. 

 

But that late in the draft he's a good roll of the dice pick.  For me if I am going really late in the draft, aside from Abdullah, I think it would be Wheat or Isaiah Land for me.   But Fehoko would be up there, too for me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

6 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I like Mallory. I like a lot of TEs. Day 3 is going to open with a TE/LBer frenzy IMO.

 

Reading about these TEs.  Mallory and Brayden Willis stand out the most as culture setters in the locker room.  Though I haven't grouped Willis lately with Tes because he seems to be billed more as a FB-HB. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Standig