Game Day Thread - Perpetually Pissed Philly vs The Legend of Taylor Heinicke: The Rematch

[ClaytoAli]

5 minutes ago, skinsmarydu said:

There's a WFT channel on TuneIn radio, it's free. 

It’s moved to Audacy

[method man]

42 minutes ago, Reaper Skins said:

We're there any postgame interviews?  Team channel on youtube had nothing...

 

There was a great one between Santana and Terry. Santana was asking Terry some candid questions. Terry gave the PC answers but admitted he is human and does see what other receivers are doing around the league with better QBs throwing to them. I wouldn't blame Terry if he turned down an extension here.

[Redwards]

10 hours ago, justice98 said:

 

He has a QB that doesn't threaten down the field and even if he did, he's on his 3rd, 4th, and 5th WRs who couldn't bust a grape earlier in the year, his 3rd string TE, his 3rd and 4th string RBs. I dont know what adjustments he's supposed to make calling plays with one arm tied behind his back, essentially.  I actually give Turner credit for calling plays to the talent he has, such that it is.  I mean, look at the offensive box score for the game and tell me it's not a who's who of total jabronies, not named Mclaurin.  

I don't disagree with any of that.  I'm 100% with you.  And I'd be the last person to tell you that Scott isn't hamstrung by who's on the field.  Scott certainly doesn't have the weapons or even a good QB to work with that other teams do.  

 

However, those same players were doing just fine in the first half when the scripted plays were being called.  Once we were out of those, that's all she wrote.  Zero points in the second half.  That's exactly like Jay.

 

Scott's been (IMO) substandard all year even when we were completely healthy.  It'd be a big deal to break 20 points with any regularity even when we had the majority of our horses available.  We could move it but would bog down the closer we got to the red zone.  I don't buy that's all on the players - backups and starters alike.  Scott bears responsibility, too.  He's been consistently criticized by fans and media pundits alike for lacking in adjustments and also inexplicably going away from what had been working - before the other team took it away.  

 

I don't care enough about the issue to go into a long back-and-forth.  If you don't think Scott's an issue, that's cool.  We disagree.  But we do agree that we need better players.  Certainly.  It's obvious that we don't have the weapons (even when fully healthy) that the upper echelon teams do.  That's not Scott's fault; the FO needs to do better on that front.  Hopefully they will this coming offseason, which is a critical one for us.

[Voice_of_Reason]

14 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

Brother we have drafted TWO QB's in a decade. TWO. 

2012 - Griffing

2012 - Cousins

2016 - Nate Sudfeld

2019 - Dwayne Haskins

 

I mean, it's not TWO.  

 

We also traded for McNabb and Alex Smith, giving up draft capital.  For whatever that's worth. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, Redwards said:

Scott's been (IMO) substandard all year even when we were completely healthy.  It'd be a big deal to break 20 points with any regularity even when we had the majority of our horses available.  We could move it but would bog down the closer we got to the red zone.  I don't buy that's all on the players - backups and starters alike.  Scott bears responsibility, too.  He's been consistently criticized by fans and media pundits alike for lacking in adjustments and also inexplicably going away from what had been working - before the other team took it away.  

My brand over the last 7years has been criticizing the play calling, specifically with Jay, but also with Turner, with the number of 1st down runs for no yards.  That's kindof been my thing.  It annoys everybody, so I continue to do it. 

 

That said, I think Turner really has had some tough things to overcome, and I don't know that we've seen what he can really do.  I also feel like Rivera has a tendency to want to be conservative in terms of the offensive play calling, and "fall in love with the 3 yard run."  So how much of the "style" of offense is dictated by Rivera is unclear. 

 

I agree, though, that it has been massively aggravating to watch the offense just try and plod along, score 17 points by running the snot out of the ball, dominate TOP and ty and win games 17-15.  

I think Turner could have done a better job of trying to work around his personnel deficiencies.

 

But, I also think when you have a QB who is so physically limited, the field shrinks, 1 real WR, no other weapons, and you're down to a make-shift OL, it gets really hard to know what to do.  

 

I would like to see Scott with a competent, physically skilled QB, and at least some of the weapons back to make a judgement.  I don't think anybody really comprehends how much Scott has to work around Taylor's limitations.  

[Est.1974]

Watching Burrow air it out to Ja’Marr Chase was spectacular. The Bengals. Just get a damn QB and at least one more weapon to pair with Terry.

 

Edited January 3, 2022 by UK SKINS FAN 74

[Mr. Sinister]

11 hours ago, method man said:

 

There was a great one between Santana and Terry. Santana was asking Terry some candid questions. Terry gave the PC answers but admitted he is human and does see what other receivers are doing around the league with better QBs throwing to them. I wouldn't blame Terry if he turned down an extension here.

 

He gone

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 hours ago, Redwards said:

I don't disagree with any of that.  I'm 100% with you.  And I'd be the last person to tell you that Scott isn't hamstrung by who's on the field.  Scott certainly doesn't have the weapons or even a good QB to work with that other teams do.  

 

However, those same players were doing just fine in the first half when the scripted plays were being called.  Once we were out of those, that's all she wrote.  Zero points in the second half.  That's exactly like Jay.

 

Scott's been (IMO) substandard all year even when we were completely healthy.  It'd be a big deal to break 20 points with any regularity even when we had the majority of our horses available.  We could move it but would bog down the closer we got to the red zone.  I don't buy that's all on the players - backups and starters alike.  Scott bears responsibility, too.  He's been consistently criticized by fans and media pundits alike for lacking in adjustments and also inexplicably going away from what had been working - before the other team took it away.  

 

I don't care enough about the issue to go into a long back-and-forth.  If you don't think Scott's an issue, that's cool.  We disagree.  But we do agree that we need better players.  Certainly.  It's obvious that we don't have the weapons (even when fully healthy) that the upper echelon teams do.  That's not Scott's fault; the FO needs to do better on that front.  Hopefully they will this coming offseason, which is a critical one for us.

I don't get how you can type out the first part of your post, and then follow it with the next 3 paragraphs.

 

I don't have the hard data to present, but I'm not quite sure where you come up with the idea that our offense is successful in the first half and then fails to make adjustments in the second.  Sure there are occasions where we are better in the first half than the second, but I'm going to need data to suggest that's actually a trend or that is the case for the WFT more than other teams.  As for the red zone, the field shrinks and the windows are that much tighter and he's got an XFL armed QB - it would seem you want him to perform magic.

 

You say that he's hamstrung and without weapons, yet you expect him to consistently conjure up successful game plans with a QB that can't stretch the field, musical chairs offensive line, etc.  I'm not saying the dude deserves no criticism, as I'm not sold on him one way or the other.  My opinion is inconclusive due to what he's had to work with, but I'd lean more to the positive in that he's been able to dial up enough to give this team some hope in November.  The coordinators seem to get hung out to dry here on a regular basis, even though they change.  What hasn't changed is the lack of talent and myriad of injuries this team faces consistently.

Edited January 3, 2022 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[wit33]

 

5 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

He gone

 

Lock that he resigns. Washington has been too good to him. Why leave? He will get a lucrative deal, beloved by all, he’s been prioritized on offense since day 1.

 

Washington has helped him secure a life changing pay day for generations to come for his family in the next 18 months. The first deal is about getting the most money, Washington will do that. That’s why players like home don’t leave their franchises, no matter how good or bad they are. 

[Redwards]

18 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

My brand over the last 7years has been criticizing the play calling, specifically with Jay, but also with Turner, with the number of 1st down runs for no yards.  That's kindof been my thing.  It annoys everybody, so I continue to do it. 

 

That said, I think Turner really has had some tough things to overcome, and I don't know that we've seen what he can really do.  I also feel like Rivera has a tendency to want to be conservative in terms of the offensive play calling, and "fall in love with the 3 yard run."  So how much of the "style" of offense is dictated by Rivera is unclear. 

 

I agree, though, that it has been massively aggravating to watch the offense just try and plod along, score 17 points by running the snot out of the ball, dominate TOP and ty and win games 17-15.  

I think Turner could have done a better job of trying to work around his personnel deficiencies.

 

But, I also think when you have a QB who is so physically limited, the field shrinks, 1 real WR, no other weapons, and you're down to a make-shift OL, it gets really hard to know what to do.  

 

I would like to see Scott with a competent, physically skilled QB, and at least some of the weapons back to make a judgement.  I don't think anybody really comprehends how much Scott has to work around Taylor's limitations.  

That's well-articulated.   And I certainly don't disagree with any of it.  People in general like to form opinions that are either/or.  Black or white.  The world isn't that way.  And in this case it's certainly a mix of deficient talent to work with and faulty coordinating.  I've said this in other responses but I totally agree that Scott has less than ideal circumstances and talent to work with even at full-strength.  I don't know how anyone could argue different.  As usual, this team doesn't have nearly the level of talent that the coaches believe they do.  There's a huge difference in having guys that are "talented" (every team does.  You don't make it into the NFL unless you have talent.)  and guys that are playmakers that are dependable and clutch.  We were spoiled under Gibbs I because the team had them all over the place.  The overwhelming majority of our players on both sides of the ball are "talented" people but that's about it.  

 

But to me, Scott's got a lot of warts of his own to shed that go beyond personnel.  When you finish with a losing record as a coaching staff two years in a row, everyone deserves a certain level of blame.  

 

In any event, neither Scott nor Del Rio (who should be on a seat as hot as the sun (IMO), seeing as how his defense failed to show up for most of the year and how Chase regressed big time and Sweat failed to take a step up) are going anywhere, and everyone has an opinion about that.  I appreciate all viewpoints - none are any less valid than mine.  

 

All we can do as fans is wait and see and hope against hope that both those coordinators take a big step up this offseason (and that Scott actually gets dependable weapons - AND A QB - to work with).  

[Redwards]

10 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I don't get how you can type out the first part of your post, and then follow it with the next 3 paragraphs.

 

I don't have the hard data to present, but I'm not quite sure where you come up with the idea that our offense is successful in the first half and then fails to make adjustments in the second.  Sure there are occasions where we are better in the first half than the second, but I'm going to need data to suggest that's actually a trend or that is the case for the WFT more than other teams.  As for the red zone, the field shrinks and the windows are that much tighter and he's got an XFL armed QB - it would seem you want him to perform magic.

 

You say that he's hamstrung and without weapons, yet you expect him to consistently conjure up successful game plans with a QB that can't stretch the field, musical chairs offensive line, etc.  I'm not saying the dude deserves no criticism, as I'm not sold on him one way or the other.  My opinion is inconclusive due to what he's had to work with, but I'd lean more to the positive in that he's been able to dial up enough to give this team some hope in November.  The coordinators seem to get hung out to dry here on a regular basis, even though they change.  What hasn't changed is the lack of talent and myriad of injuries this team faces consistently.

That's a good follow-up question.  I'm probably not doing a good enough job communicating my viewpoint, I guess.  Apologies.  

 

Yes, Scott doesn't have a ton of weapons.  However, we're not the Lions and Jaguars talent-wise.  Hell, Ron's been touting the talent (in his view) on this team all offseason.  But even at full strength, it was a monumental effort to get 17 points on a consistent basis from Scott's offense.  And regardless of talent, Scott has a horrible tendency to just abandon what is working.  No rhyme or reason; Jay did that all the time and it was maddening.  I hear the announcers talk about it while the game is in progress plenty of times and then analysts talk about it post game.  I'm not imagining it.  Scott's been called out on this for two season in a row. 

 

The other point I have is that Scott at times has the team moving the ball and then once the other team adjusts to what he's doing the team goes completely flat.  Falls off a cliff too many times.  Just like Jay's offense.  It's a 60 minute chess game and we play for maybe 30 minutes.  Yesterday was a perfect example to me.  Scoring points in the first half (so clearly he had enough talent on-hand to do that, if he didn't we would't have been scoring those points and moving the ball) and being aggressive with the ball and then absolutely dreck in the second half.  No answers whatsoever.  Went into a complete shell.

 

Hopefully that clarified my position better, even if you don't agree with it.  But that's where I come out, and I'm hardly alone on that front.  I don't mean that in a way that says "I'm right and you're wrong", so please don't read into that statement that way.  It's all just opinion and I definitely respect those that differ from mine.  It's just where I and many others come out on the issue.  You clearly don't agree, and that's fine.  Again, I'm really not caring enough about this particular issue to go back and forth on it.  

[Koolblue13]

13 hours ago, Newera said:

Do we really want to get an athletic quarterback and have Scott Turner develop him.  He never really took advantage of Taylor’s strengths.   No boots.  Roll outs.  Read option.  Scott is not good with athletic qbs.  

What exactly are Heinickes strengths that the coaching staff that knows him better than anyone are ignoring? 

 

Can't do boots and roll outs, because he needs time to plant and throw or his lame arm slings turkeys short of the receiver. 

 

They've begged him to run with the ball and he won't.

 

Even when he gets good protection he holds the ball too long, until he gets sacked.

 

They run a bunch of RPO stuff and he won't keep the ball.

 

He doesn't see blitzes coming and if he does, he does nothing to get the ball out quicker.

 

It gets to the point that all we can do is try a bunch of boring screen plays that aren't being executed well.

 

I'm not saying that Scott is a great OC. Who knows at this point? I'm saying that he knows what Heinickes strengths are better than ny other OC in the league and he knows his limits.

[mojo]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

What exactly are Heinickes strengths that the coaching staff that knows him better than anyone are ignoring? 

 

Can't do boots and roll outs, because he needs time to plant and throw or his lame arm slings turkeys short of the receiver. 

Lame Arm and the Sling Turkeys would be a great name for a band.

[Mr. Sinister]

30 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

 

Lock that he resigns. Washington has been too good to him. Why leave? He will get a lucrative deal, beloved by all, he’s been prioritized on offense since day 1.

 

Washington has helped him secure a life changing pay day for generations to come for his family in the next 18 months. The first deal is about getting the most money, Washington will do that. That’s why players like home don’t leave their franchises, no matter how good or bad they are. 

 

You're going to feel very betrayed when contract negotiations start, and he puts out a  fairly neutral "I'd love to stay here, but I'm keeping all of my options on the table" kind of statement. 

 

   

 

 This is, and has always been a business first League. You making it sound like he owes this team some kind of debt of gratitude, won't change that. Theg drafted him. Any of the other 32 teams could have done that.. He doesn't owe this team anymore than giving it everything he's got on the football field and not embarrassing them off of it. That's it.

 

   

 

He's gonna get the bag no matter where he signs, but I doubt this will be a 100% money based move. I really want him to stay, but I'm sure he sees the writing on the wall here with this franchise. This is a team where wide receivers go to die 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

What concerns me about Terry potentially leaving is that he seems like the type of guy who is to smart to sign long term to a team without a QB who can get him the ball.  It is imperative that Ron find him a QB that can get him the ball.

[clskinsfan]

53 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

He gone

Yep. And cant blame him one bit. 

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

2012 - Griffing

2012 - Cousins

2016 - Nate Sudfeld

2019 - Dwayne Haskins

 

I mean, it's not TWO.  

 

We also traded for McNabb and Alex Smith, giving up draft capital.  For whatever that's worth. 

Yeah. I corrected it to 9 years instead of a decade. Solid drafting regardless. 

[Wildbunny]

3 hours ago, Redwards said:

Scott's been (IMO) substandard all year even when we were completely healthy.

Considering Fitzpatrick got injured in the first quarter of the first game of the season we will all agree that Offense was never really completly healthy right?

 

And even if I take into consideration that "Heinicke playing QB" means that offense was completly healthy, Defense was playing like crap and giving up yards, points, left and right. Which didn't help our Offense either.

4 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Yep. And cant blame him one bit.

I hardly blame players from leaving this team to go elsewhere.

Or coaches too. This place is so rotten that it's a dark spot on anybody's career...

[88Comrade2000]

We don't get a QB, Terry is gone.

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Watching Burrow air it out to Ja’Marr Chase was spectacular. The Bengals. Just get a damn QB and at least one more weapon to pair with Terry.

 

Burrow is going to be really special.

 

They might have the other weapons necessary already on the roster, the question is development and health.  I kindof think a healthy Samuel would have done wonders for the offense.  You can't just ignore him.  He's not a top 10 guy, but he's plenty good enough and fast enough to draw coverage.  

 

The other thing I think not having Samuel in the lineup did is put more on Brown than he could really handle at this stage.  So he struggled.

 

With the right QB and scheme, I kindof like McLaurin, Samuel, Brown, Thomas (? about his recovery) and Gibson as a starting 5.  You rotate Brown out for Bates in 2 WR sets, and bring in McKissic in other sets.

 

The problem has been Samuel has been out all year, Brown was a rookie, and Thomas has been out most of the year, and McKissic missed the second half of the year, and the QB isn't good enough.

 

They cant bet on health of guys who weren't healthy.  That was a Bruce move.  So I don't know what they need to do moving forward. 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

56 minutes ago, Redwards said:

But to me, Scott's got a lot of warts of his own to shed that go beyond personnel.  When you finish with a losing record as a coaching staff two years in a row, everyone deserves a certain level of blame

The other thing to keep in mind is he's been an OC for 2 years and has had Haskins, Alex Smith, 1.5 games of Kyle Allen, .5 games of Fitzy, and the rest of the games with TH.  

 

I WOULD expect an established OC (granted these are also HCs) like Andy Reid or Sean Payton to be able to make lemonade out of lemons, but that's a tough ask for a young guy who's just starting being an OC.  He's never had the opportunity to run his offense with a competent NFL QB, and that's probably affected his growth as well.

 

He's not perfect, and there are better OCs out there.  But I do think there's a lot to like about Scott.  

 

I also think there is a lot to question.  The question is, is it more him, his inexperience, lack of talent, or Ron's influence.  It's really tough to tell.

[Est.1974]

The loss of both Samuel and Thomas has been massive. Agree that Bruce banked on injury history players and it failed. Are Brown and Bates going to develop enough to fill an voids. Tough call.

 

Just feels like we still need to add a RB, WR and TE via the draft or FA.

 

Oh, and a QB amongst other things.

[justice98]

4 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Burrow is going to be really special.

 

They might have the other weapons necessary already on the roster, the question is development and health.  I kindof think a healthy Samuel would have done wonders for the offense.  You can't just ignore him.  He's not a top 10 guy, but he's plenty good enough and fast enough to draw coverage.  

 

The other thing I think not having Samuel in the lineup did is put more on Brown than he could really handle at this stage.  So he struggled.

 

With the right QB and scheme, I kindof like McLaurin, Samuel, Brown, Thomas (? about his recovery) and Gibson as a starting 5.  You rotate Brown out for Bates in 2 WR sets, and bring in McKissic in other sets.

 

The problem has been Samuel has been out all year, Brown was a rookie, and Thomas has been out most of the year, and McKissic missed the second half of the year, and the QB isn't good enough.

 

They cant bet on health of guys who weren't healthy.  That was a Bruce move.  So I don't know what they need to do moving forward. 

 

 

As it pertains to Brown, he was so worthless, on a team desperate for anybody to show something at WR.  Even by rookie WR standards.  My expectations for him are basically zero going into next year. I dont feel comfortable counting on him at all.  Basically the same thing I felt about AGG coming into this year and now he's not on the team anymore.  I'm going into the offseason trying to get somebody to push Brown.  

Edited January 3, 2022 by justice98

[wit33]

3 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

You're going to feel very betrayed when contract negotiations start, and he puts out a  fairly neutral "I'd love to stay here, but I'm keeping all of my options on the table" kind of statement. 

 

   

 

 This is, and has always been a business first League. You making it sound like he owes this team some kind of debt of gratitude, won't change that. Theg drafted him. Any of the other 32 teams could have done that.. He doesn't owe this team anymore than giving it everything he's got on the football field and not embarrassing them off of it. That's it.

 

   

 

He's gonna get the bag no matter where he signs, but I doubt this will be a 100% money based move. I really want him to stay, but I'm sure he sees the writing on the wall here with this franchise. This is a team where wide receivers go to die 

 

 

He doesn’t owe the team anything. This idea he’s been in a bad situation for himself personally is something I disagree with and feel he’s disagree with (complete opinion). 
 

I expect Washington to offer him big money ahead of this upcoming season, helping him secure “the bag” sooner than being a free agent.

 

There’s very little precedence of guys walking away from big money offered with remaining years on a rookie deal. 

 

3 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

What concerns me about Terry potentially leaving is that he seems like the type of guy who is to smart to sign long term to a team without a QB who can get him the ball.  It is imperative that Ron find him a QB that can get him the ball.

It doesn’t happen much at all—players leaving money on the table while on a rookie deal. I expect the team to sign him to a lucrative deal this off season. 

Edited January 3, 2022 by wit33

[skinny21]

2 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

The loss of both Samuel and Thomas has been massive. Agree that Bruce banked on injury history players and it failed. Are Brown and Bates going to develop enough to fill an voids. Tough call.

 

Just feels like we still need to add a RB, WR and TE via the draft or FA.

 

Oh, and a QB amongst other things.

Thomas especially was our best red zone threat.  He also was productive enough to concern D coordinators, thereby opening things up for Terry or McKissick.  Samuel (if healthy of course) likely takes pressure off Terry, as well as affording a bit more dynamism to the O.  

 

Bates I think is looking like a good #2 TE.  I could see us re-signing Seales-Jones or dipping into FA for a similar type to give competition/a running mate for Bates if Thomas misses time.  Given the fact rookie TEs usually take time to develop, I think it makes sense to draft a guy though (we’ve got Thomas for 2 more years) instead of going the FA route.  Lots of other team needs though.

I’m basically ignoring Reyes due to how much he still needs to develop, but he’s got quite a ceiling and apparently the work ethic that actually gives him a chance to reach said ceiling.  Going to be fascinating to see if he’s afforded the patience to develop and what he does with the opportunity if he is.

1 hour ago, justice98 said:

 

As it pertains to Brown, he was so worthless, on a team desperate for anybody to show something at WR.  Even by rookie WR standards.  My expectations for him are basically zero going into next year. I dont feel comfortable counting on him at all.  Basically the same thing I felt about AGG coming into this year and now he's not other team anymore.  I'm going into the offseason trying to get somebody to push Brown.  

I still like Brown’s potential, but that’s all it is at this point.  Can’t bank on that potential being realized.

Edited January 3, 2022 by skinny21

[mistertim]

I think the only way Terry stays here is if we nail the QB position this offseason and whichever QB we draft or end up with looks really good in 2022. It's got to be incredibly frustrating for Terry to be so good but never really near his potential production due to having crap QBs throwing to him for years. If he had a top 10 QB he'd be an All Pro IMO.

 

I think plenty of teams will be willing to pay Terry penty of money, and plenty of those teams will have way better QB situations than we do. Sure, we drafted him and gave him his big shot to playin the NFL. But that doesn't suddenly change the business end of things. Do you really think if after next sweason the Chargers, KC, the Bills, or the Cards (just to name a few) came calling and all offered Terry big money he'd really stick around with the WFT dumpster fire? Not a chance.

 

I have a feeling he'll end up gone.