Next Day Thread (Bound by Tradition Edition): A-A-Ron vs. Someone in familiar Jerseys

[KDawg]

Here it is. The next day thread.

 

I'm not going to talk about the same ol same ol that we get week in and week out. 

 

Instead I'm going to talk about the players and things that stand out in both the good and bad moving forward:

 

1) Kam Curl is a top 3 player on our defense and the two in front of him aren't defensive ends. Kam Curl does an excellent job in nearly every situation he's put in. Buffalo nickel, strong safety, zone, man, open field tackling and playing downhill. He is consistently in the right places and in position to make plays. On some plays it actually looks like he's playing inside backer with how he flows and gets downhill.

 

The other two players I'm referencing are Daron Payne and Jon Allen. 

 

2) It's Desperation Time at Quarterback. When a franchise struggles with its reputation it's difficult to bring in quality players to round out the roster. When a franchise struggles with its reputation and doesn't have a bonafide quarterback its even harder... On both sides of the ball. Washington doesn't have many options at quarterback moving forward. Trades for guys like Wilson and Rodgers are not very likely, Ryan would be a tremendous improvement but his cost and age have to factor in and Deshaun Watson is literally not an option for a franchise that has severe issues with public relations right now. 

 

That leaves the options for guys looking to get a second chance or young guys falling out of favor with their current franchise or a rookie. Rookies are taking longer to get acclimated in today's NFL, not shorter. But the ones who are extremely talented usually show glimpses of brilliance. Using this years class Lawrence is rated lower on PFF (or was) than Jones, Lance, Fields, Mills and Wilson. He's also rated lower than Taylor Heinicke. 

 

So the idea that a rookie from next year's crop is going to come in and dominate and turn the franchise around in one year is not one that makes me tingle with anticipation. But a rookie that flashes can bring eyes to the franchise and soften some people where money talks. There's some fairly quality prospects, even if not top end, to be had in this draft. The question is: If a guy like Corral, Pickett, Willis, Ridder, Howell, Strong, etc. (not in any order) were to come here would the fanbase and media give the young player enough leeway to truly develop? And if they do: Would Snyder give the coaching staff enough time to develop them? That's the elephant in the room. 

 

Even if you assume that Rivera is in full control, which I have my doubts on, but assume he is: Does Snyder give him the time to adequately groom a young prospect? Many would say Snyder will allow him as much time as possible, and Snyder did that with Gruden... But Bruce Allen was the Gruden guy and likely took up for him. There's just so many questions on the quarterback front. But we can't be passive players. We need to be involved. Quickly.

 

3) Free Safety, Linebacker, Corner. Those three spots are the most important spots on the team to fill defensively. The problem is that without the quarterback a lot of quality talent would rather go elsewhere than come to a dysfunctional organization. Even defensive talent. When our team was a top defensive unit you may be able to swing some guys, but now that it's one of the worst units in the NFL on top of the dysfunctional tag AND not having a quarterback? God I hope this D finds some growth moving forward.

 

4) Running Back. I got raked over the coals a little bit for saying I like Najee Harris at 18. Some thought it meant I was down on Gibson and McKissick (I'm not). Some thought it was a waste of a pick. But in reality a single back just doesn't get it done. Gibson is hurt fairly often and he and McKissick both function better when their usage rate is on the lower end. How do you keep those two fresh? Get a bellcow. When the Harris ship sailed there were other options, which we opted to go away from. I get the love of Gibson. I love Gibson as a player. He's dangerous, runs strong... But he is the perfect candidate to be a back in a committee. You want a stronger offense next year? The obvious fix is the QB. Next is the running back. That also allows us to use Gibson and/or McKissick in the slots. Of course the OC would need to get creative... but McKissick is extremely dangerous in space with the ball in his hands.

 

5) Our OL isn't bad, and Scherff is always injured. Scherff is an all-pro. He is an excellent lineman. I am NOT on board with simply letting him walk without trying. But if he insists on some huge payday the team can't keep him. He is hurt entirely too often for a guy that is so often unavailable or dinged. The best ability is availability and while Scherff can grit a lot of stuff out his games played isn't worth the potential current pricetag (that we raised ourselves). The last four seasons he's played in 8, 11, 13 and now 4 of 7 this season. The rest of the line has been decent at worst this season. A unit that many thought would be one of our weakest is actually one of our strongest right now, even without Scherff. Is it so good that we can write off acquiring OL help? No. But it's solid. Solid, on this team, is like all-pro for other teams at the moment. Having said all of this: Our OL against Green Bay wasn't very solid. 

 

I'm sure there's a lot more I could say or go over but... this was over my intended word count (which was 12. I'm an overachiever).

 

Oh, and one last thing... The truly odd stat... Tress Way didn't punt yesterday. Not once. Not a single time. Zero punts. And we scored 10 points. No punts. Our team MVP was kept off the field.

 

Proof:

 

Awards:

 

*** - Jon Allen

** - Terry McLaurin

* -  Benjamin St Juste

 - Taylor Heinicke (Almost rushed for 100 but made some poor decisions and almost made McKissick the Headless Horseman)

  - Antonio Gibson (Tripping on what could have been a huge game turning play and then fumbling on the way into the end zone)

   - Charles Leno, Jr. (Didn't have a great day)

 

Season to Date:

 

* x8 - Terry McLaurin

* x4 - Tress Way

* x4- Jon Allen

* x3 - Antonio Gibson

* x3 - JD McKissick 

* x2 - Taylor Heinicke

* x2 - Logan Thomas

* x1 - Kam Curl

* x1 - Benjamin St Juste

* x1 - DeAndre Carter

* x1 - Jamin Davis

* x1- William Jackson III

 x2 - Bobby McCain

 x3- Cole Holcomb

 x3 - Dustin Hopkins

 x3 - Charles Leno, Jr.

 x4 - Chase Young

 x5- Kendall Fuller

 x7 - Landon Collins

 x7 - Jon Bostic 

[DWinzit]

So wait, we need a QB, LB, FS, CB, RB and a little OL help?

Amazingly have the same holes plus WR questions as last year. 

 

Wish they had brought in a larger RB/FB somehow in the offseason

 

Love, love that we paid Allen the big money and he is rewarding us.

 

No Tress Way, that's crazy especially when only scoring 10 points

 

The week is now complete with this thread!

[Redskins Reparations]

I would like to call out Scott Turners play calling.  Specifically in the red zone where every second down was run off tackle. I keep hearing that TH’s lack of arm strength is limiting what the offense is capable of executing but I am going to call BS! Where are the bootlegs and quick passing opportunities?

[El Mexican]

We desperately need a fullback.

We've been consistently mediocre on 3rd down and now we have a red zone problem.

 

How about a Craig "Ironhead" Heyward type? 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Sick of tired of needing 4-5 position upgrades every single year.

 

I’ve been reading this on ES since i first joined in 2009. 
 

The whole thing is so tired. Why do we still care? Lol. We’ll be posting the same thing 3 years from now. 

[dyst]

Gibson looks slow to me. I still don’t know where the 4.3 WR speed went.

[Renegade7]

I'm not ready to give up on Gibson as a feature back.  It might not be this year, but the talent is obvious. Fumble problems are fixable, I do not get the constant pounding him up the middle like he's a power back.  They shouldn't of cut Barber if that's the case.

[FootballZombie]

Without Logan Thomas and without a real power rushing game, we badly need some new options to dial up in redzone opportunities.

 

Maybe sub in AGG or Reyes to try and get a jump ball?

 

At this point I am also removing the QB sneak from TH's  playbook. He is not big enough to get push, not tall/explosive enough to get over the line w/o a run start, bad at locating seams and fumble prone. When Tom Brady is better a running the sneak, you shouldn't be running it. I've seen that trainwreck one too many times to continue going into that well.

 

41 minutes ago, dyst said:

Gibson looks slow to me. I still don’t know where the 4.3 WR speed went.

Billion nagging injures will do that. fracture in shin, bum shoulder, calf injury. Dude is being held together by duct tape right now.

 

The workload we are putting on this man is insane. He is expected to be

-Our Bellcow

-Our inside power runner

-Our short yardage back

-A receiving threat out of the backfield

-Utilized as a blocker in the pass game

 

That is madness. There are several roles on that list that Gibby could not or did not have to fill last season, and having to do all that now for a guy w/ the absolutely miniscule RB damage absorption memory he has leads to a predictable and inevitable outcome.

 

Gibby is a absolute stud, and there is every reason to believe he can develop into a Kamara like player, but he will not survive long enough to get there unless you handcuff some big guys to him. We had them last year, but we don't this year and we have yet to address the problem by picking up another big body. I do not understand the current RB depth of this roster.

 

 

Edited October 26, 2021 by FootballZombie

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Landon Collins and no frowney face?  He was 5 for 5 when targeted by the Packers.  I think 4 of those 5 went for 1st downs.  I get it, he's figuring out his new position, blah blah blah...but still, he's a net minus.  Not the net triple/quadruple minus he was as a safety, but still a net minus.  Maybe he'll even be a net neutral or (gasp) positive next week against a bad Broncos offense.  Including that, our linebackers were better then expected.  I though Collins would be far worse, he wasn't.  Holcomb flashed a bit.  Davis flashed a bit.  There's stuff there that could grow to be better as the season progresses.

 

Gibson's strength/athleticism is seen most often in the pile driving aspect.  He's extremely comfortable gaining the very solid 5 yards on 1st down.  He runs into the line for 3 yards and churns for 2 more.  Both plus performances on a play.  But still, his talent as we all think, is more than that.  But...what if his vision isn't and he's figured out his niche?  This is who he is?  Still a good player, but maybe a 2nd rounder in the future is in the cards.  Such as the Denver RB we'll be facing next week.

 

Man, for all the hype our secondary had, little did we realize it was because the WR group as still just blegh.  Marginally approved with meh players, which are better than the below average we had last year.  But the improvement from below average to meh is...not moving the needle scoring wise.  Dyami Brown hasn't been healthy for weeks.  He needs to go on a short IR stint.  But if Curtis Samuel still can't play...that leaves us with, umm...uhh..2 slot WR's trying to play out wide?

 

Defense looked much better.  This team is far closer to being decent than the 2-5 record indicates.  It's not good.  But decent.  With recent defensive changes and the like, I feel confident we should've beaten the Saints.  Then with the Broncos coming up (I view that as a lucky are 'W'), that would put us at 4-4 before eventually losing to the Bucs.  But 3-5 is what we'll be.

 

Keep in mind, we lost to Aaron Rodgers, Patrick Mahomes, and Josh Allen in addition to a very promising Justin Herbert and a well coached Saints team with a good defense.  The schedule has not been in our favor.  But at least it hasn't sugar coated the situation.  With a weaker schedule we might not have known just how bad Collins/Bostic/etc were.  We might have stumbled into the playoffs thinking our D was good, only to get shellacked by the first top tier QB we faced.

[KDawg]

6 hours ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Sick of tired of needing 4-5 position upgrades every single year.

 

I’ve been reading this on ES since i first joined in 2009. 
 

The whole thing is so tired. Why do we still care? Lol. We’ll be posting the same thing 3 years from now. 

It’s pretty annoying that we don’t address these issues. And when we do it’s half assed. 

 

5 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

Landon Collins and no frowney face?  He was 5 for 5 when targeted by the Packers.  I think 4 of those 5 went for 1st downs.  I get it, he's figuring out his new position, blah blah blah...but still, he's a net minus.  Not the net triple/quadruple minus he was as a safety, but still a net minus.  Maybe he'll even be a net neutral or (gasp) positive next week against a bad Broncos offense.  Including that, our linebackers were better then expected.  I though Collins would be far worse, he wasn't.  Holcomb flashed a bit.  Davis flashed a bit.  There's stuff there that could grow to be better as the season progresses.

 

Gibson's strength/athleticism is seen most often in the pile driving aspect.  He's extremely comfortable gaining the very solid 5 yards on 1st down.  He runs into the line for 3 yards and churns for 2 more.  Both plus performances on a play.  But still, his talent as we all think, is more than that.  But...what if his vision isn't and he's figured out his niche?  This is who he is?  Still a good player, but maybe a 2nd rounder in the future is in the cards.  Such as the Denver RB we'll be facing next week.

 

Man, for all the hype our secondary had, little did we realize it was because the WR group as still just blegh.  Marginally approved with meh players, which are better than the below average we had last year.  But the improvement from below average to meh is...not moving the needle scoring wise.  Dyami Brown hasn't been healthy for weeks.  He needs to go on a short IR stint.  But if Curtis Samuel still can't play...that leaves us with, umm...uhh..2 slot WR's trying to play out wide?

 

Defense looked much better.  This team is far closer to being decent than the 2-5 record indicates.  It's not good.  But decent.  With recent defensive changes and the like, I feel confident we should've beaten the Saints.  Then with the Broncos coming up (I view that as a lucky are 'W'), that would put us at 4-4 before eventually losing to the Bucs.  But 3-5 is what we'll be.

 

Keep in mind, we lost to Aaron Rodgers, Patrick Mahomes, and Josh Allen in addition to a very promising Justin Herbert and a well coached Saints team with a good defense.  The schedule has not been in our favor.  But at least it hasn't sugar coated the situation.  With a weaker schedule we might not have known just how bad Collins/Bostic/etc were.  We might have stumbled into the playoffs thinking our D was good, only to get shellacked by the first top tier QB we faced.

Landon Collins was bad but I’m sick of saying the same thing over and over and Heinicke, Gibson and Leno all deserved these frowns. I’m sure Collins will do plenty to cement his status in frowns the next 10 games. 

Edited October 26, 2021 by KDawg

[method man]

I would not draft a complementary RB in Day 1 or Day 2. I would go sign someone on the cheap in FA. Phillip Lindsay and James Conner are there to be had on the minimum

 

Watch AJ Johnson closely this weekend. He will likely be the top off ball LB available in FA. He is 29 but did not play for 2 years so there is less wear and tear on him

[Koolblue13]

Leno looked pretty good until the 4rth when the QB was holding the ball for 4+ seconds.

[KDawg]

18 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Leno looked pretty good until the 4rth when the QB was holding the ball for 4+ seconds.

 

If you're trying to get me to defend the QB... it's not going to happen.

[Koolblue13]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

If you're trying to get me to defend the QB... it's not going to happen.

Absolutely not.

 

I started counting drop backs by the end of the game. It was like he was too tired to get outside the pocket and just started taking sacks. Oline played a good physical game running straight forward most of the game, but you can only do so much.

[KDawg]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

Absolutely not.

 

I started counting drop backs by the end of the game. It was like he was too tired to get outside the pocket and just started taking sacks. Oline played a good physical game running straight forward most of the game, but you can only do so much.

 

I don't disagree. I saw some technique stuff that I didn't love from Leno on the live watch. Footwork mistakes later in the game. But these are always initial reactions. I'm not going back through so there's absolutely, 100%, possibilities for misreads with the frowns and stars.

 

I don't know what Heinicke was doing in the 4th quarter. It wasn't good, though. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Jonathan Allen really impressive on the radio today.  Some points he made included he thinks his best pass rushing season was last year even though he didn't have the stats.  He doubled down that sacks aren't the be all and end all for D lineman and its more about being disruptive.  His point was somewhat a prop for the much maligned, with some people, PFF scores since they rated Allen highly as a pass rusher last year albeit he didn't have the sacks.

 

He suggested teams are scheming for Chase and explained how.  He's high on how Chase prepares and goes about his business.  He said an offense can scheme around a D lineman and got into how.  Extra protection.  Chips.  Quick game,  3 step drops, etc.  He didn't say the conclusion to this but he seemed to be suggesting that you need the back end of the defense to do their thing, too.  He thinks the defense is responsible for their disappointing season but seems to suggest things might come along and improve on that front.

 

He made a point that I often do which is the mark of a great player isn't having a great game or two its about consistency.  I thinks Ionnaidis is having a sleepy good season even though he doesn't have the stats.  He thinks Holcomb is coming on.

 

He thinks Jamin Davis is getting there and playing well of late.  He explained how much easier it is for a D lineman to make an impact in their rookie season than it is for a LB which he suggested has much more involved assignments and in turn has a much greater adjustment to the NFL game. 

Edited October 26, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Ron in his Junkies interview just now.

 

A.  Suggesed Chase is the guy on the D line that the opponents are scheming for the most.

 

B. Again plugged Seals-Jones.  I admit it feels good for me to hear it.  I mentioned in training camp, I know Seals-Jones is a nobody but I've been at other camps watching the TEs and this dude is really fluid compared to what I've watched.  Cooley if anything is cynical as heck about their TEs over the years actually used the sane word "fluid" when describing Seals-Jones and he likes him.   Terry also plugged Seals-Jones the other day in an interview.  I am not saying the dude will set the world on fire but he's not bad as a #2 TE IMO.

 

C. He admitted again that he liked 2 QBs in the last draft that they considered.  I know a person or two thinks that reporters are just making up that they had interest.  But Rivera isn't known to be a liar.  If I recall that's now the 4th time I recall him saying this.  He said he didn't think they were ready to give up things to land that QB, he wanted to build the roster some more.

 

D.  The Junkies questioned him by saying you can't go another year (next year) with a QB situation like this.  He agreed.

 

E.  He said they talk all the time in the building about finding that QB, every week he gets briefed about college QBs.

 

F.  They asked him if he likes any of the college QBs, he said yes.  They told him rumor is they don't.  And he said good, he'd rather other teams think they don't.

[fearlessNelms]

Six trips inside the 25 and didn't punt the ball once the whole game. Glad I didn't know this before the game- I would've bet the house that we would win and even more that we would at least cover taking 8 1/2 points. It's simply unbelievable to only score 10 points with those stats on our side, as the beating ourselves continues.

 

I was at the game and was surprised how many fans we had there. We were drowned out by the Packer fans, but we actually had a pretty good amount of fans there. As far as Lambeau Field goes? I won't even get into all the great things about the place. It is incredible! The experience you get there would be hard to top at any other stadium in the league. Every football fan- or sports fan in general- should go there for a game at least once in their lifetime.    

[Captain James]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

He suggested teams are scheming for Chase and explained how.  He's high on how Chase prepares and goes about his business.  He said an offense can scheme around a D lineman and got into how.  Extra protection.  Chips.  Quick game,  3 step drops, etc.  He didn't say the conclusion to this but he seemed to be suggesting that you need the back end of the defense to do their thing, too.  He thinks the defense is responsible for their disappointing season but seems to suggest things might come along and improve on that front.

I'm still willing to believe this and give CY the benefit of the doubt. I'll admit, I've bought a little into the "not as advertised" camp, but these breakdowns just make too much sense. Let's improve the heck out of the back of our defense to give these guys more time to "get home."

[Spaceman Spiff]

13 hours ago, KDawg said:

There's some fairly quality prospects, even if not top end, to be had in this draft. The question is: If a guy like Corral, Pickett, Willis, Ridder, Howell, Strong, etc. (not in any order) were to come here would the fanbase and media give the young player enough leeway to truly develop? And if they do: Would Snyder give the coaching staff enough time to develop them? That's the elephant in the room. 

 

 

 

No.  Absolutely not.

 

I think you can give this fanbase 3, maybe 4 games before they start to really turn on a prospect.

 

I've been using this comparison here for a few weeks now, I'll use it again here.  The Bills and Josh Allen.

 

IMO, there's no possible ****ing way this fan base and media market would have let Josh Allen have TWENTY EIGHT GAMES (12 in 2018, 16 in 2019) of 56.3 completion percentage, 30 touchdowns/21 picks and a 78.2 rating.  

 

No.  ****ing.  Way.  Can you imagine the absolute ****storm on this board if we gave a rookie quarterback that amount of time with a stats like that?

 

So whatever rookie comes in better deliver from the start because this fan base has absolutely no patience.  None.  

[Skinsinparadise]

PFF guy

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Someone show Nick Akridge the clip of Terry missing a sure touchdown catch on what looked to be a pass that hit him in the shoulder.

 

I think TMC is very, very close to being elite.  I love him as much as anyone else but I don't think he's in the Davante Adams/Stefon Diggs/DeAndre Hopkins class.  

 

Now what separates TMC from those guys is that all of those guys have great quarterbacks throwing them the ball.  TMC does not and has not.  

 

I certainly think it's possible for him to get there but one notch below elite is nothing to sniff at.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

16 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Someone show Nick Akridge the clip of Terry missing a sure touchdown catch on what looked to be a pass that hit him in the shoulder.

You sound like the rabid Heineke Hivers right now.

 

Name one elite/very good player that never makes a mistake.  Every. Single. Week. Terry is beating defenders and getting open, to either not be seen by the QB or if he is seen, Terry is having to work way too hard to make the catches.  He's more than allowed to have one 'doh!' play through 7 weeks, particularly given all the miraculous plays where he's turned poop to ice cream.

[Spaceman Spiff]

12 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

You sound like the rabid Heineke Hivers right now.

 

Name one elite/very good player that never makes a mistake.  Every. Single. Week. Terry is beating defenders and getting open, to either not be seen by the QB or if he is seen, Terry is having to work way too hard to make the catches.  He's more than allowed to have one 'doh!' play through 7 weeks, particularly given all the miraculous plays where he's turned poop to ice cream.

 

Did you read the rest of my post or did you just quickly hit reply and delete the part you wanted to ignore?

 

[Leonard Washington]

I think the OL has looked ok in pass blocking partly due to TH's shiftiness.  He has escapes from immediate pressure sacks about 3-4 times a game. 

 

We get a bone every now and then but I'd like to see more effort to get to Carter, Brown, JD, Gibson, and Patterson in defense discipline testing plays and 1:1 match-ups.  I'm getting tired of our funky pre-snap motions that basically say, "this guy will not get the ball".