The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[skins island connection]

On 11/11/2021 at 11:04 PM, PartyPosse said:

Have we done that since 2012? That's like saying we're still the offseason champs because we offer huge contracts. It's just not true,

 

 I say that on the mindset that there hasn't really been a QB to 'catch' Snyder's eyes since Griffin.

With the QB play for WFT this year, he may be chomping at the bit, with fans giving up, attendance loss, etc. 

Never say never...

[Renegade7]

On 11/11/2021 at 2:44 PM, skinny21 said:

I can see what you mean - in an ideal world, you have a guy (well, two really) that are firmly backups, and you draft a guy to be the day one starter. You’re then not paying your backups much money, your starter isn’t looking over his shoulder and gets reps immediately.  Makes sense.  

 

Problem becomes what if you can’t draft a guy?  How are the team and fans going to react (prior to, and over the course of the season) knowing you didn’t bring in a starting level qb?  What if the guy you want - the guy with the highest ceiling - isn’t ready to play immediately?  Or if you have a group of 1st rounders you want, but the rawest of them is the one that drops to your draft slot?  And so on.  In our situation specifically, if don’t land a solid stopgap and don’t draft a qb (no guarantees there), then RR is risking job security with another crappy season with no qb of the future on the roster.  The fallback option (the stopgap) at least may be able to help win some games and let RR keep his job for another year (with another chance to find a qb of the future).

 

As to what a stop gap is, I can’t yet say if we do disagree.  In my mind, it’s a viable starter (Fitzpatrick, Andy Dalton, Mariota, etc) that you bring in to hold the fort down until you have a (potential) franchise qb ready to start.  Maybe the franchise guy isn’t on the roster and that stopgap plays the whole season.  Maybe that stopgap starts the season until the coaches are ready to turn the reins over to the young guy.  Maybe that stopgap never really sees the field because the youngster starts from the get go.  In other words, they’re a placeholder and insurance policy.  The way the league operates, that placeholder is ideally a guy that can actually start, like the guys I mentioned above.

 

I feel like I’m missing something here… I’m not quite sure what you mean about Mariota/Trubisky not being here long, because that’s the point.  They are more likely to sign prior to the draft, in which case they don’t really have much of a say in how long they stay (short of retiring, or trying to force the team to cut them).  If we signed a 2 year deal, then they start or they don’t, and then we either trade them, cut them, or keep them for the 2 years (whether or not they are starting for us).  And yes, they will (almost certainly) be long gone before we know if a drafted qb is a bust or not.  But again, that’s the point.  You then start over with another stopgap, and another qb in the draft.  Rinse and repeat, as they say.

 

I don’t see Trubisky/Mariota finding a team that they know won’t try to draft a qb, and I don’t see them thinking of that as a possibility.  It is possible they wait until after the draft to sign somewhere though - trying to find their best chance at starting for the year, but that obviously comes with risks.

 

I'm glad I waited to respond to your post.

 

I gave Heinicke until mid-season to prove he can be longterm starter, he failed.

 

This game hes earned the right to prove he can be a solid #2 or the bridge role Fitz was signed for.  I'm still against signing another veteran to fill the Fitz role, hes probably already here.

[skinny21]

19 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I'm glad I waited to respond to your post.

 

I gave Heinicke until mid-season to prove he can be longterm starter, he failed.

 

This game hes earned the right to prove he can be a solid #2 or the bridge role Fitz was signed for.  I'm still against signing another veteran to fill the Fitz role, hes probably already here.

It’s funny, because I actually agree with you.  Mariota/Trubisky/etc don’t really move the needle for me, but more importantly, TH showed once again the level of play he’s capable of, and I don’t see those others as clear upgrades to TH.  And TH is pretty energizing.  

 

The context has changed though after this game.  If he’d continued his 10 pts/game play, there’s no way RR could have gone into next season with Taylor as the presumed starter (because they once again couldn’t land a guy they wanted in the draft).  In that context, I think it made sense to sign a vet with some promise as the bridge/stopgap and then going into the draft for your franchise guy, or punting for another year (though that carries risks as well).  Personally, I’d have been fine with TH as the stopgap (prior to this game), but I was probably in the minority.  He’s been fun to watch.

 

I have to admit, I’m kind of impressed that this staff has stuck with Heinicke and it’s nice to see it pay off like it did today.  I did wonder what TH might look like with a better supporting cast (especially on the defensive side) and more time.  Not a long term starter, but I thought maybe he could be closer to average than bottom of the league.

 

Side note - I haven’t watched any of the college guys really play (just caught the Pitt/UNC game), but to your point about a guy like Willis - TH could be a really good mentor/example for Willis to play behind at first.  I totally get your feeling of wanting a pro-ready guy though, I really do.

[88Comrade2000]

If the Team plays like they did today the rest of way; at minimum they probably can finish 4-4 and go 7-10. That will take them out of any qb, in the draft.

[philibusters]

3 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

If the Team plays like they did today the rest of way; at minimum they probably can finish 4-4 and go 7-10. That will take them out of any qb, in the draft.

 

I feel like their are no standout QB's in this draft like we had with Trevor Lawrence last year, but there are six guys who make up the top tier of QB's in this class and if we are say picking 13th or 14th (what you would expect from a  7-10) there will likely be a couple of them available.   I think at say 14, it is highly likely that Corral and Willis will be off the board.  They are perceived as having the best upside and thus will likely be the first two QB's taken.  But of Pickett, Howell, Ridder, and Strong at least a couple of them will be available at 14.  This is one of the few drafts where it doesn't feel like you are missing otu as much by not having a top 5 pick when it comes to QB's just because I don't see huge separation in the top 6.  

[KDawg]

Howell is still my guy. Ridder… still on the fence about but what I do love about him is his moxy/perceived attitude (I don’t know his behind the scenes stuff). He’s real energetic. Corral we will not get. As of now I’m a no thanks to Willis for this team.

 

Other league observations today: Ryan Tannehill is Taylor Heinicke. A few differences, obviously. Tannehill is bigger, has a better arm. Heinicke is more elusive, better runner and a bit more scrappy. But watch the way the two of them play quarterback. The fakes these guys carry out are beautiful. Heinicke is a live arm and an inch or two from being the same kind of player Tannehill is. And I hold Tannehill in high regard. He’s a game manager but not in the typical sense. He just does what he has to do to win. No more. No less. Heinicke has more playmaker in him but just watch the skills these guys have outside of throwing and you’ll see what I mean. 
 

Because of the short comings, though, Heinicke is a guy you want on your team. A spark plug. A solid guy coming in as relief that can make a few plays. 
 

If we can’t draft a guy there aren’t many vet options. I’m curious if Mayfield winds up available. I don’t think so. Cleveland won’t have a high enough pick to go and get a rookie and there aren’t any real intriguing options for them. But they don’t want to pay that man. Ultimately I think they do.

 

I’m not sure how I feel about Baker, but if he were available and we can’t get the guy we want in the draft I’d be fine with giving him a chance with the caveat that we hit the “abandon ship” button if things go south. So the deal would need to be structured in a way that would work.

[Koolblue13]

I really think the Eagles are all in on Hurts. He looked pretty good again and is improving.

 

Heinicke still reminds me of a post injury Chad Pennington with Randle C Legs, but not as quick minded or decisive. 

I want to see how Heinicke handles the rest of this long season and if his arm deflates again. I think he could be the bridge QB for whoever we draft and this week I'm cooled on the bridge/reclaim QB like Trub and Mariotta.

 

I'm also still firmly on the Ryan fence. I really don't want to even trade a 3rd for him, even if he would be the best option.

 

We are drafting a QB in the first. Howell is my guess.

 

@KDawg while I don't completely agree or disagree with your take on why Willis would be a bad fit, but wouldn't Ridder fall into that same Josh Allen kind of lack of fan patience path?

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

 

@KDawg while I don't completely agree or disagree with your take on why Willis would be a bad fit, but wouldn't Ridder fall into that same Josh Allen kind of lack of fan patience path?

 

Yes. Corral is in that bucket, too, to be honest. 

 

But I think he's a better quarterback than Willis. And Corral is in a different stratosphere of quarterback than Willis. 

 

Keep in mind, as a disclaimer for all reading this: I am not saying WIllis doesn't have upside, skill or the ability to be great in this league. But I think he is the guy at the top of this QB class that is going to require the absolute most fostering and the best gameplan. 

 

Willis has the biggest upside of any of the 2021 quarterbacks. But he is by far the biggest risk in my opinion. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Steelers likely in the QB market too in the off season based on what I've read.   

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I need more time to digest the QBs.  But for now:

 

Matt Corral stays my top guy mainly because he processes quicky, plays quickly and has good range of accuracy.  Also IMO has the best wheels among the top QBs aside from Willis.  He's been limited on that front in recent weeks because of his high ankle sprain.

 

Whose next?   For me its hard.  I get to spend more time on these guys.  But I am definitely intrigued by for different reasons -- Pickett, Howell, Willis.

 

I was beating the drum for Ridder last year, when I thought he was coming out.  I was intrigued by him as a 2nd rounder type.  As for this draft, I go back and forth.  His lack of accuracy with quick outs in the flat remind me of Haskins in a bad way.    But he also has a really live arm and makes some nice throws.   Good mobility.  I think some mock drafters overrate his arm.  I think he has a good arm but the Josh Allen comparisons take it too far IMO.  

 

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Haskins looking at his phone during warm-ups 😂

 

Edit:  Just did a quick search for Haskins on twitter, and folks are implying that it was racist to comment on him looking at his phone, when the entire story should be how bad Rudolph is.  As if she didn't start with the fact that Rudolph has been around 4 years and stinks.

 

Very safe to say the Steelers will be in the market for a QB.  I see them being strong candidates for both Rodgers and Russell Wilson though.

Edited November 15, 2021 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Haskins looking at his phone during warm-ups 😂

 

 

Yeah even before that I've read expect the Steelers to be QB shopping.  I watched Mason Rudolph yesterday against the mighty Lions -- "meh". 

 

https://fansided.com/betsided/posts/latest-dwayne-haskins-report-should-raise-eyebrows-steelers

 

Aditi Kinkhabwala is one of the top reporters in the game. She works for the NFL Network and CBS covering the Steelers. She wouldn't report this if it wasn't true, which is a terrible look for a guy on his last legs in the NFL.

Haskins didn't last two seasons with the Washington Football Team after being selected by them with the No. 15 pick in the 2019 NFL Draft. He was released by Washington late last season for myriad reasons, including a reported lack of work ethic and breaking COVID protocols.

He didn't get much attention in free agency before getting a second chance with the Steelers, who sign him late last year. They kept him around this season as the third stringer behind Roethlisberger and Mason Rudolph, but he wasn't activated until Rudolph was thrust into the starting role and the Steelers needed a backup. Then he goes out there and throws ducks in pregame while looking at his phone? Not ideal.

Of course, we have no idea why he was checking his phone. Perhaps he had the playbook on there and wanted to do some last-minute studying. Or maybe he was changing the music. Either way, this is a bad look for a guy who needs a image rehab to keep his career afloat.

 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

Not commenting on Rudolph. I'm not a Steeler fan and I don't watch them enough. But he clearly isn't a starting QB from my viewing and may not be a backup.

 

To comment on the Haskins comment... someone will come in here defending that.

[DWinzit]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

Very safe to say the Steelers will be in the market for a QB.  I see them being strong candidates for both Rodgers and Russell Wilson though.

Agrees that the Steelers absolutely need to address QB. Looks funny to see the Steelers being a strong candidate for any big name high priced FA, just not their style. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

8 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Agrees that the Steelers absolutely need to address QB. Looks funny to see the Steelers being a strong candidate for any big name high priced FA, just not their style. 

Very true, but they also haven't had to be in the market for a QB in a very long time either.

 

Put Rodgers or Wilson on the Steelers and they all the sudden are instant SB contenders, which is why I think they could go against the norm - if either of those guys become available.  I can see both Rodgers and Wilson having Pittsburgh high on their own lists as well.

[DWinzit]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Very true, but they also haven't had to be in the market for a QB in a very long time either.

 

Put Rodgers or Wilson on the Steelers and they all the sudden are instant SB contenders, which is why I think they could go against the norm - if either of those guys become available.  I can see both Rodgers and Wilson having Pittsburgh high on their own lists as well.

Interesting idea and a twist I'd have never thought of. You are correct, could be a good place for one of them and the city and fans would embrace them

[CobraCommander]

I just heard this for the first time the other day on Grant and Danny but they had Haskins on the show when he was a rookie and they were asking him all sort of questions and they asked what he likes to do with his free time and if he plays madden and his response was, and I’m paraphrasing. “I don’t love football like that.”

 

I’m not saying he has to play madden, but that tells you everything you need to know about his commitment to the game IMO. 
 

Him checking his phone during warm ups is just more of the same. He doesn’t care enough about football to be good.

[Warhead36]

Haskins will be completely out of the NFL by this off season.

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Haskins will be completely out of the NFL by this off season.

 

Heinicke is far from perfect and is likely not be the "guy" but reputation wise he works hard and his teammates rally behind him.  From what I've observed from Haskins in camp years back, he comes off like a nice guy, but I think his issue is he simply doesn't love football.  Lots of evidence mounting on that front.

 

It's part of the reason why among this crop of QBs in the draft, I want a guy who lives and breathes the sport.  Mac Jones was billed that way by some, especially Jim Nagy.  

 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[skins island connection]

 

 Only things Haskins loves are money and attention.

His name shouldn't be mentioned when talking about QBs, unless its a comparison of being as crappy as him...

[Skinsinparadise]

Jake Haener, at this point probably my favorite mid round QB

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With every step, he was reminded of the immense pain in his ribs and hip from a shot he took in the first half that was only getting worse. He may have even thought about the bigger picture — his time at Washington, how he ended up at Fresno, the ups and the downs and the importance of the moment in front of him. But, above all of that, Haener tried to focus on one thing: Jason Bourne.

---

“That's a [offensive coordinator] Coach Grubb thing,” Haener said with a laugh in an exclusive interview with PFF. “He always says you've got to have access to all your tools… He said, ‘I know it's cheesy and everything, but look at Jason Bourne.' You look at Jason Bourne when he's in those moments: He is so calm, and he has access to all those tools. I had access to all the tools the other night, and we used it and it worked out.”

 

Six plays later, Haener tossed a 13-yard touchdown to Jalen Cropper to take a 40-37 lead that would hold for a big-time Fresno State win. After missing his first throw, the Bulldogs quarterback went 5-for-5, marching those 75 yards with equal parts guts and brilliance.

With every throw, you could see how much pain Haener was experiencing. Contrary to his typically compact throwing motion, each throw was a full-body experience. Still, he managed to put the ball in the right spot — every time.

 

“I have never been in that situation before, with that pain while trying to throw,” Haener said. “I literally felt like I could barely throw the ball at that point, so that kind of sucked. That was really the first time that I've had to do that in that situation.

“I couldn't really rotate. I was just trying to keep my balance so I could use whatever I had to get the ball out there and try to make something happen with whatever time we had left. You've just got to find a way at those points, and we made it happen.”

 

Haener threw for 455 passing yards against UCLA that day, second only to last season's 485-yard Nevada game in terms of a career-high. It was fitting, too, since this season feels like a career-high for the journeyman quarterback. His 10-1 touchdown-to-interception ratio is the best of his career, and he is on pace to shatter his previous single-season best in passing yards. His 73.6 completion percentage is nearly 10 points higher than it was in 2020, and his yards per attempt average is up above 10 for the first time.

Many people may think Haener is an overnight sensation, but his journey toward tossing that final touchdown was anything but overnight.

The three-star prospect originally committed to the Washington Huskies out of high school. After redshirting his first season, he saw a little action in 2018 as Jake Browning‘s backup, which was supposed to lead to a full-time starting role in 2019. But before that summer, the Huskies made a big splash in the transfer portal by bringing in former five-star quarterback — and Washington native — Jacob Eason from Georgia.

Jake Haener: pff overall grade and rank since 2018 [among FBS Qbs with 100 or more dropbacks]

Season	Snaps Played	PFF Grade	PFF Grade Rank
2021	255	82.5	11th of 47
2020	438	75.4	56th of 140
2018	34	70.8	N/A

 

Entering his redshirt sophomore season, Haener was no longer the expected starter for the Huskies and was instead staring down a quarterback competition with a highly-touted recruit and local legend. But even from the moment he learned Eason was coming west, the mindset was clear.

“No fear,” Haener said. “You got a big-time guy coming in, and that's what you want. When you're playing big-time college football, you can't be scared of guys coming in. That's the way it is. You're playing on a top-10 program at the time, and there's talent coming in and out. So, still to this day, I believe in my game. I believe in who I am, what I do, the competitor I am and the leader I am.

 

Haener now finds himself in a place he loves with a coaching staff he loves working with. Kalen DeBoer is the head coach, but Haener works more with offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach Ryan Grubb.

And under Grubb, Haener's 83.3 PFF passing grade is one of the best in the country among full-time starters. In fact, he has yet to record a PFF passing grade below 70.0 this season, having earned an 83.3 grade against UConn, a 73.6 grade against Oregon, a 92.9 grade against Cal Poly and a 72.4 against UCLA. 

“That guy believes in me,” Haener said. “I love him, and I think we're very similar in the way we're wired. We're both ultra-competitive, and we bring it to the QB room into the offense every morning. He's just someone I totally trust, and he's up there grinding harder than anyone in the country.”

 

https://www.pff.com/news/college-football-2021-fresno-state-qb-jake-haener

[JSSkinz]

He's spot on.

 

 

[HigSkin]

15 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Jake Haener, at this point probably my favorite mid round QB

 

Back in September, I posted on him in the draft thread - "Trent Dilfer on The Herd is slobbering over Senior QB Jake Haener from Fresno State and says he's a Derek Carr type guy."

 

Dilfer loves this guy....

[RichmondRedskin88]

1 hour ago, JSSkinz said:

He's spot on.

 

 

There were many here tearing him down last year when a few of us saw how smart of a player he was.  They just saw he was on Bama.  Those of us who watched every week saw him make smart throws and take care of the football.  His play was overshadowed by having WRs like devonta smith that drew all the media attention. 

[kingdaddy]

On 11/14/2021 at 9:47 PM, Rdskns2000 said:

If the Team plays like they did today the rest of way; at minimum they probably can finish 4-4 and go 7-10. That will take them out of any qb, in the draft.

I don't think so. Looking at mock drafts the teams picking high in the draft are not projected to go QB. I could see us trading up with one of these teams to go after a guy we like. I get your point about winning our way out of a high 1st round pick of our own though. 

You know, I was beating the drum to sign Newton and use him in various redzone and short yardage packages as well as insurance for Heinicke and Allen. I thought RR would go that direction and I still think that would've been a good call but I wasn't upset with signing Fitz.