The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[DWinzit]

I agree Nagy has not been a great coach and defiinitely has put Fields in situations that he has looked unprepared for. Everyone is certain he will be fired, what if the Bears lead by Fields have a season ending surge and end up with 8 or 9 wins. does he save his job? 

I sure hope we are not asking these questions about Rivera at this time next year with our QB situation and crap record

[Chump Bailey]

10 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

It is amazing the amount of Fields is a bust talk there is in here and other threads despite being in a similar situation, but Heinicke is constantly absolved.

 

Anyone labeling Fields to be a bust at this point is clueless IMO. In fact, I believe we quite possibly made a very big mistake not trading up for him when we had the chance. I'm a fan and he seems like a natural leader.

[mistertim]

Yeah labeling any QB a bust after their first 5 starts is silly. All you can get a feel for is where he might be along his learning curve and what he needs to improve on (as well as whether the game plan is being tailored well for him).

 

I would have been pretty shocked if Fields came in and immediately looked great in the pros. He's super talented but IIRC he really doesn't come from a pro style offense so he's going to have a learning curve.

[Riggo-toni]

We need to lock Heinecke up long term so we can draft another DL with our top 5 pick!!

[kingdaddy]

16 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Of course it's excuses. And he's had help from one of the better OLs in the NFL.

Yeah OK boss, whatever. We'll let leave it at that. 

[mistertim]

11 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Yeah OK boss, whatever. We'll let leave it at that. 

 

It's fine if you disagree with PFF and PFN's OL scores. They aren't infallible. Do you disagree?

[Est.1974]

If the reported trade in place for Watson was correct at 3 first rounders and a couple of third rounders, then if Miami pull off that trade I would say giving them a couple of thirds for a Tua, maybe one being conditional, could be the best option we have.

[KDawg]

Chris Trapasso (the guy who said we were in on Trubisky at the deadline) was just on local radio (Bills country).

 

He said that deal was absolutely as good as done. He wasn’t told compensation. But the reason it didn’t happen was due to Jake Fromm going on the COVID list while they were negotiating the trade and Buffalo is high on him…

 

So they were willing to move Trubisky for some compensation.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Chris Trapasso (the guy who said we were in on Trubisky at the deadline) was just on local radio (Bills country).

 

He said that deal was absolutely as good as done. He wasn’t told compensation. But the reason it didn’t happen was due to Jake Fromm going on the COVID list while they were negotiating the trade and Buffalo is high on him…

 

So they were willing to move Trubisky for some compensation.

 

 

Interesting.  I don't typically associate Trapasso for reporting, but for being a mock drafter.    During draft season I like to read and listen to him. 

 

If they did try to trade for him, then clearly they will try to sign him in FA.  Will see.  Finlay seems to think its a possibility albiet tough for me to tell if he's just guessing because he doesn't talk about it as if its something he heard.  

 

Superfically, I am not a Trubisky guy.  That is, watching him casually over the years he hasn't turned me on.    But I haven't sat down and studied him.  I'll do it in the off season.

 

I don't really care much which veteran they sign but i am fan of signing someone -- as long as they couple that with a rookie QB. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I like all 4 Qbs but to diffferent degrees I don't agree with Kiper's order of them

 

 

 

[Est.1974]

Moving for Trubisky or Mariota this offseason, with or without a rookie selection to go with that move as well, really makes 2022 another year of transition/build. Will likely spill over into 2023.

 

Rivera’s tendency to reiterate how we over performed last year and were nowhere near competing kind of flys in the face of us paying 10mil for Fitz, or chasing Stafford. Or whatever else.

 

Injury aside, Fitz on a one year 10mil rental doesn’t really combine with the notion he keeps reiterating. Could have had Trubisky off the street for just about nothing in the offseason if he thought that.  
 

I’m coming around to the line of thinking that we’ve wasted two seasons depending on which way we go at QB next due to totally mismanaging last offseason.

 

 

[Warhead36]

Any season where you either don't have a QB or at least a potential QB in the future in your pipeline is a wasted season.

[Koolblue13]

16 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I like all 4 Qbs but to diffferent degrees I don't agree with Kiper's order of them

 

 

 

If I had to guess at an order. Corral, Pickett, Ridder, Willis, Howell, Strong, Armstrong?

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

If I had to guess at an order. Corral, Pickett, Ridder, Willis, Howell, Strong, Armstrong?

 

 

I'm still trying to figure out how I feel about Pickett and Ridder.

 

I like Howell a LOT more than most. I think he may be the most pro ready of everyone. For everything I like about Corral I do seem to notice a lot of his offense is kind of on the gimmicky side with screens and deep shots being prevalent. Not a lot of precision passing. But I still THINK he's my QB1 as of now. Howell might be next. But it's all loose. I won't watch a ton of their stuff until the season ends. 

[Koolblue13]

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

 

I'm still trying to figure out how I feel about Pickett and Ridder.

 

I like Howell a LOT more than most. I think he may be the most pro ready of everyone. For everything I like about Corral I do seem to notice a lot of his offense is kind of on the gimmicky side with screens and deep shots being prevalent. Not a lot of precision passing. But I still THINK he's my QB1 as of now. Howell might be next. But it's all loose. I won't watch a ton of their stuff until the season ends. 

I am with you on Howell. I think he might be the most pro ready. I don't think he has a huge ceiling, but honestly, as much as I'd love the next great QB, a good QB on a rookie deal would be a huge help for this team. I like Howell for the safe pick. Ridder for the upside. We don't have a shot at Corral and Willis is too tough to call right now. 

I wouldn't mind an 2012 draft with a 4rth round QB also.

[DWinzit]

4 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I am with you on Howell. I think he might be the most pro ready. I don't think he has a huge ceiling, but honestly, as much as I'd love the next great QB, a good QB on a rookie deal would be a huge help for this team. I like Howell for the safe pick. Ridder for the upside. We don't have a shot at Corral and Willis is too tough to call right now. 

I wouldn't mind an 2012 draft with a 4rth round QB also.

I would be cool with a good vet (Trubisky, Mariota) , #1 selection (Howell is still my top) and another draft pick. No one is handed the job, best one gets it and can lose it. Take a year protecting 3 QB's . I would rather have more options than all the eggs in one basket. I am not rushing the #1 selection, giving him the ability to sit and learn if he isn't ready.

[philibusters]

8 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

If I had to guess at an order. Corral, Pickett, Ridder, Willis, Howell, Strong, Armstrong?

 

I think that is a pretty guess for what we know at this point...that said this is a QB that is not top heavy.  There is no Trevor Lawrence.  Arguably the top 3 from the 2020 class (Burrow, Tua, and Herbert) would be ranked higher than the top QB from this class based on how they were viewed in 2020.   Then once you start there is not a large dropoff from 1 to 6.   With the acknowledgement that I have NOT scouted the QB's, just watched bits and pieces of their games and their highlights, this is not the QB class wehre I would want to trade up.  Lets say we end up with the top 10th pick, which would give us the opportunity to draft QB4.   I might be tempted to stay there rather than say trading a first and second rounder to move in a position to draft QB2 just because I don't see a huge difference between the two.  At QB4 you likely looking at two of Pickett, Ridder, Howell, and Willis being available.   Not sure which ones.

7 hours ago, DWinzit said:

I would be cool with a good vet (Trubisky, Mariota) , #1 selection (Howell is still my top) and another draft pick. No one is handed the job, best one gets it and can lose it. Take a year protecting 3 QB's . I would rather have more options than all the eggs in one basket. I am not rushing the #1 selection, giving him the ability to sit and learn if he isn't ready.

 

I am not a fan of drafting two if you bring in a vet.  It can work out like it did in 2012, but I think a vet, a rookie, and Heinicke is a decent set up.

Edited November 11, 2021 by philibusters

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

If I had to guess at an order. Corral, Pickett, Ridder, Willis, Howell, Strong, Armstrong?

 

Is that who you like in that order or how you think its going to go?  Armstrong typically isn't rated that high with most mock drafters I noticed for whatever reason.  I haven't watched him so i don't have an opinion on him yet.  I notice some are high in that next tier for Daniels, and Hooker, McKee, Jurkovec.  I watched a game of all of them except for Hooker who I've watched glimpses of here and there. 

 

Another guy with growing hype is Bailey Zappe, i watched some of him this morning.  I'll watch some more and write about him a little on the draft thread.  He's a fun watch.  Throws a real catchable ball.  Nice touch.  Accurate.  He make off platform throws.  He can run.  What's confusing to me that I got to think about is his competition is so easy that he's not really challenged.   It looks so effortless for him because he's not challenged much. 

 

So its hard for me to seperate that when I am watching him.  His arm strength to me just looks OK, average at best, nothing special. But he has some intriguing skills.  I don't have a take on him yet but I am intrigued to watch more.  I think I am off McKee from what I saw, he struggles too much with out routes to my liking albeit his body build and running style remind me a little of Herbert.    Daniels to me is too erratic as for accuracy.  He can run.  But man he's so small, he looks more like a slot WR than a Qb to me build wise, that it looks like he could be split in half with a big hit.   Jurkovec I already talked about on the draft thread. 

 

 

 

 

 

[DWinzit]

5 minutes ago, philibusters said:

 

I am not a fan of drafting two if you bring in a vet.  It can work out like it did in 2012, but I think a vet, a rookie, and Heinicke is a decent set up.

They must find a future starting QB this year. To me, Heinicke has proven he is no better than a backup. My suggestion is to get 3 shots and a future starter. 

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Is that who you like in that order or how you think its going to go?  Armstrong typically isn't rated that high with most mock drafters I noticed for whatever reason.  I haven't watched him so i don't have an opinion on him yet.  I notice some are high in that next tier for Daniels, and Hooker, McKee, Jurkovec.  I watched a game of all of them except for Hooker who I've watched glimpses of here and there. 

 

Another guy with growing hype is Bailey Zappe, i watched some of him this morning.  I'll watch some more and write about him a little on the draft thread.  He's a fun watch.  Throws a real catchable ball.  Nice touch.  Accurate.  He make off platform throws.  He can run.  What's confusing to me that I got to think about is his competition is so easy that he's not really challenged.   It looks so effortless for him because he's not challenged much. 

 

So its hard for me to seperate that when I am watching him.  His arm strength to me just looks OK, average at best, nothing special. But he has some intriguing skills.  I don't have a take on him yet but I am intrigued to watch more.  I think I am off McKee from what I saw, he struggles too much with out routes to my liking albeit his body build and running style remind me a little of Herbert.    Daniels to me is too erratic as for accuracy.  He can run.  But man he's so small, he looks more like a slot WR than a Qb to me build wise, that it looks like he could be split in half with a big hit.   Jurkovec I already talked about on the draft thread. 

 

 

 

 

 

Just kind of how I think I'd draft them. Probably should have stopped at Strong being QB5, because I don't know much. Being local I think moves him up the board though.

[skinny21]

On 11/9/2021 at 8:35 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yep.  I think Heinicke is fine as a backup.  But the sample size IMO is big enough to see that he doesn't have the accuracy or arm strength to be a top half of the league QB.  Keim said in a recent podcast coaches see him as a low tier starter or high end backup. 

 

 

Thinking about the above, I wonder how much Heinicke’s presence affects the pass blocking.  Are teams having their ends play mostly to keep TH in the pocket and therefore making it look like our tackles are ‘winning’?  

To be clear, I’m not asking because I’m looking for a positive regarding TH.  Yes, if we found he was helping the oline’s pass pro significantly it could be seen as a positive for TH, but the fact he doesn’t face that much pressure and still struggles to pass the ball around is pretty damning.

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Just kind of how I think I'd draft them. Probably should have stopped at Strong being QB5, because I don't know much. Being local I think moves him up the board though.

 

I am still digesting.  Like you, and @KDawg I like Howell more than most.  I am intrigued to see how he plays tonight.  Pickett I go back and forth on but I've seen enough that I am intrigued.  N. Carolina's defense isn't hot so I expect him to play well tonight.

 

I don't dislike Strong.  He has the best deep ball IMO of the QBs I've watched.  But his lack of mobility bugs me and his accuracy isn't so pinpoint where I can easily ignore the mobility issues.   I don't like McKee as much Strong but I wished Strong could move like Mckee. McKee is tall and lanky like Strong but has better pocket movement and wheels IMO. 

 

I like Corral the most.  I think he's the most pro ready but not to the extent of Mac Jones on that front.   The reason why I like him is his accuracy has enough range to it (not Jones caliber but not a mile off).  He's a RPO master which is becoming more and more prevalent in the pros.  And he plays fast -- both as to his release and also as to his decisiveness both as a passer and a runner.    My concern with Pickett is he sometimes holds on to the ball too long -- he doesn't seem to always process as fast as someone like Corral.  Having said that my mind might change when I watch him more.

 

As for Howell, he has some baller in him which I really like.  He leads the receiver with his throws.  Puts nice arc on the deep ball.  Has some wheels.  Part of the reason why I like Corral more is IMO he's a half peg better than Howell on all of this.  Corral to me is even a bigger baller as to his style.  Throws an even better deep ball.  And IMO looks faster and more elusive.  Howell breaks more tackles as a runner but I don't think that will work as easy in the pros.  But i like Howell as sort of a slightly poor man's version of Corral.  I think their skill set is of the same brand.   

 

As I've talked about a lot i do care about what I learn about their personalities.  From what I gathered Corral is emotional, fiery and high strung.   Howell is more of a quiet dude.  Both from what I read work hard and are competitors.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[NewCliche21]

18 hours ago, KDawg said:

Chris Trapasso (the guy who said we were in on Trubisky at the deadline) was just on local radio (Bills country).

 

He said that deal was absolutely as good as done. He wasn’t told compensation. But the reason it didn’t happen was due to Jake Fromm going on the COVID list while they were negotiating the trade and Buffalo is high on him…

 

So they were willing to move Trubisky for some compensation.

 

Makes me feel better that we were at least interested.  The Fromm thing doesn't make sense to me, though, as vax protocols mean that Trubisky wouldn't have had to quarantine.

[skinny21]

5 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

Makes me feel better that we were at least interested.  The Fromm thing doesn't make sense to me, though, as vax protocols mean that Trubisky wouldn't have had to quarantine.

I took it to mean they decided to keep Trubisky because their other backup qb (Fromm) wasn’t going to be available.

[88Comrade2000]

I would take this:

 

Sign a younger 2nd tier vet like Mariotta or Tribusky to 2 year deal. We would have trade for Mariotta, I think. Tell, them we do plan on drafting a qb but they will probably start first.

 

Draft a qb.

 

Taylor drops to third. He’s earned the backup job and you know he can come in for a game a two.

 

Kyle can go elsewhere.