The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Warhead36]

32 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

If we end up picking in the range of 7 -10, is it worth giving up draft assets to move up?  I'm a casual college football watcher so by no means an expert but the QB's coming out next year seem pedestrian.

 

 

 

 

If its for a QB you love then yes. The Bills, Ravens and Chiefs all traded up to get their guys.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Warhead36

[PartyPosse]

46 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

We could literally sign the actual Jesus and people would jump all over him when he had an incompletion.

 

"Well, I mean he is the son of god. I expect more from him". 

In all fairness, I kinda would.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[PartyPosse]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

If its for a QB you love then yes. The Bills, Ravens and Chiefs both traded up to get their guys.

What’s crazy is Buffalo didn’t even have to give up an additional first rounder to essentially move from 21 to 7

[KDawg]

16 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

And I'm not suggesting waiting to draft day to do business.

 

You may not be able to get anything done then, either. Teams don't know how the draft is going to play out. You have to give up a lot to make that kind of move and then you better hope you get the guy you want at that pick or you wasted a ton of resources.

[Renegade7]

10 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

You may not be able to get anything done then, either. Teams don't know how the draft is going to play out. You have to give up a lot to make that kind of move and then you better hope you get the guy you want at that pick or you wasted a ton of resources.

 

I wouldn't trade up for any spot except #1, otherwise, trade down and get ammo for next year.  I'm pessimistic about this QB class, whoever folks agree is most NFL ready QB is likely to be the #1 pick.  If we trade up, go for broke.

 

What I dont want is a situation where we end up with Willis and have to wait until he's ready for this level, if ever.  For whatever reason, everything seems to be pointing to that.

 

Keep in mind when we first started talking about what to do at QB, I wanted a veteran and then trade down so we can trade up in the next draft.  The question is jus who's that veteran to fill the Fitz role, I suggested Winston, im on the fence with his knee injury now.

 

Signing a QB we expect to start only to bench him for a rookie QB we expect to start feels like a waste of resources jus to say we covered our bases.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, HigSkin said:

Listening to Albert Breer and Cowherd just now, Cowherd and his "reliable FO source" LOL mentioned keep an eye on Russell Wilson to be move next season.  Albert Breer agreed. 

 

IF Wilson would agree to expand his list of teams to include WFT, would you give up 5-6 first rounds picks for him?

 

 

 

1) That's an insane price and nobody would pay it (even though they can't as @KDawgpointed out).

2) Wilson isn't going to go anywhere he doesn't explicitly want to go, since he has a no-trade clause in his contract. I think there's about a .0001% chance that we're on his short list.

3) Can we please for the love of the flying spaghetti monster stop talking about Watson, Wilson, or Rodgers coming here? It's not happening.

 

1 hour ago, NickyJ said:

Scratch Cam from the list. Gonna be embarrassing if Cam keeps the job when Darnold is healthy.

 

 

 

Cool.

 

Scratches Cam Newton off of his "People I don't want anywhere near the WFT" list

Edited November 11, 2021 by mistertim

[wit33]

On 11/8/2021 at 4:37 PM, mistertim said:

I'm sort of at the place where I don't really want a running QB at all. I don't really care if he's Vick level or Lamar Jackson level. Running QBs aren't going to last long unless they learn to become great QBs first and runners when necessary. As I said earlier, IMO with an elite running QB and the right OC/system/supporting cast in place for him you probably get a 5-6 year SB window before the tread on the tires wears off and he loses that ability (or he gets injured doing it, which will probably happen eventually). With an elite passing QB (ideally with the legs and athleticism to extend plays and pick up yards as needed) you probably get a 10-15 year SB window.

 

Russ (has), Jackson (will sign a historic deal soon by one of the best organizations in the NFL), Josh Allen (just signed an extension—one of the premier running QBs), Cam (has and will continue to start in his 30s), Prescott (signed a massive second contract), Kyler Murray (projects to play at least 10 years, and Watson (projects to play 10 years) …

 

all have or will play 10 years.
Most/All these guys are one read and create type QBs to this day for most part. The whole premise of a running QB getting injured or not lasting 10 years is old news. 
 

The hope for the supremely gifted QB athletes is that their passing abilities and overall comfort will grow as they age. Some will do it better than others m, but all these guys will or have already started in year 10. 
 

Yes, all these guys came in with different traits, but all received similar criticism about being a running QB and how that will translate to the NFL. It is the NFL is my point. These guys will battle the new baseline of athlete at the QB, which like John Elway (Burrow, Herbert, Mahomes).

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Yea, but is that worth $10+ million in cap space?  I maintain thats the QB coach's job to mentor the rookie, not the guys who want his job. Does Heinicke not ask those questions? 

 

 

I dont believe we're on the same page on what a stop gap veteran is.  Mariota and Trubisky are not going to be here multiple seasons knowing they have no chance to be the starter because we drafted a QB.  Maybe 1-2 years tops.  If the rookie is a bust, they will be long gone by the time we accept that.

 

 

It depends in how the rest of this season pans out on whether he's a 2nd stringer or a 3rd stringer, but he's defiently not a longterm starter. 

 

I'm concerned on whats going on with Allen, I jus wish if we brought in a veteran QB to go with a rookie it was like a Colt McCoy who accepted he was a backup in this league and not threaten the rookie for his job. 

 

The ideal situation is to have both your backups familiar with the system, jus in case.

I can see what you mean - in an ideal world, you have a guy (well, two really) that are firmly backups, and you draft a guy to be the day one starter. You’re then not paying your backups much money, your starter isn’t looking over his shoulder and gets reps immediately.  Makes sense.  

 

Problem becomes what if you can’t draft a guy?  How are the team and fans going to react (prior to, and over the course of the season) knowing you didn’t bring in a starting level qb?  What if the guy you want - the guy with the highest ceiling - isn’t ready to play immediately?  Or if you have a group of 1st rounders you want, but the rawest of them is the one that drops to your draft slot?  And so on.  In our situation specifically, if don’t land a solid stopgap and don’t draft a qb (no guarantees there), then RR is risking job security with another crappy season with no qb of the future on the roster.  The fallback option (the stopgap) at least may be able to help win some games and let RR keep his job for another year (with another chance to find a qb of the future).

 

As to what a stop gap is, I can’t yet say if we do disagree.  In my mind, it’s a viable starter (Fitzpatrick, Andy Dalton, Mariota, etc) that you bring in to hold the fort down until you have a (potential) franchise qb ready to start.  Maybe the franchise guy isn’t on the roster and that stopgap plays the whole season.  Maybe that stopgap starts the season until the coaches are ready to turn the reins over to the young guy.  Maybe that stopgap never really sees the field because the youngster starts from the get go.  In other words, they’re a placeholder and insurance policy.  The way the league operates, that placeholder is ideally a guy that can actually start, like the guys I mentioned above.

 

I feel like I’m missing something here… I’m not quite sure what you mean about Mariota/Trubisky not being here long, because that’s the point.  They are more likely to sign prior to the draft, in which case they don’t really have much of a say in how long they stay (short of retiring, or trying to force the team to cut them).  If we signed a 2 year deal, then they start or they don’t, and then we either trade them, cut them, or keep them for the 2 years (whether or not they are starting for us).  And yes, they will (almost certainly) be long gone before we know if a drafted qb is a bust or not.  But again, that’s the point.  You then start over with another stopgap, and another qb in the draft.  Rinse and repeat, as they say.

 

I don’t see Trubisky/Mariota finding a team that they know won’t try to draft a qb, and I don’t see them thinking of that as a possibility.  It is possible they wait until after the draft to sign somewhere though - trying to find their best chance at starting for the year, but that obviously comes with risks.

[mistertim]

27 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Russ (has), Jackson (will sign a historic deal soon by one of the best organizations in the NFL), Josh Allen (just signed an extension—one of the premier running QBs), Cam (has and will continue to start in his 30s), Prescott (signed a massive second contract), Kyler Murray (projects to play at least 10 years, and Watson (projects to play 10 years) …

 

all have or will play 10 years.
Most/All these guys are one read and create type QBs to this day for most part. The whole premise of a running QB getting injured or not lasting 10 years is old news. 
 

The hope for the supremely gifted QB athletes is that their passing abilities and overall comfort will grow as they age. Some will do it better than others m, but all these guys will or have already started in year 10. 
 

Yes, all these guys came in with different traits, but all received similar criticism about being a running QB and how that will translate to the NFL. It is the NFL is my point. These guys will battle the new baseline of athlete at the QB, which like John Elway (Burrow, Herbert, Mahomes).

 

You have 2 actual running QBs in there: Jackson and Cam.

 

Russ, Murray, Allen, Prescott are not running QBs and none of them are "one read and run" guys. They have the athleticism and wheels to extend plays and pick up yards when need be but they are primarily passers first, and can run/scramble when necessary and/or on the occasional designed RO play.

 

Jackson is in his 5th season and though he's still playing well he's been coming back down to earth over the last couple of seasons since his huge one. Cam was washed up by his 8th year in the league.

Edited November 11, 2021 by mistertim

[wit33]

24 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

You have 2 actual running QBs in there: Jackson and Cam.

 

Russ, Murray, Allen, Prescott are not running QBs and none of them are "one read and run" guys. They have the athleticism and wheels to extend plays and pick up yards when need be but they are primarily passers first, and can run/scramble when necessary and/or on the occasional designed RO play.

 

Jackson is in his 5th season and though he's still playing well he's been coming back down to earth over the last couple of seasons since his huge one. Cam was washed up by his 8th year in the league.

All guys listed relief on their legs to survive/succeed their first 2-3 years, then the journey for each individual takes its own path. A main part of their production early on was rushing the football. Dak maybe not. Those are most of the elite runners in the NFL of the last 5 years.
 

How is Jackson coming back to earth? He’s top 5 for most as far as being the MVP of the league, continues to put up historic numbers, will most likely be in the playoffs (every season of his career). You are witnessing the start of a hall of fame career, yet you say he’s coming back to earth. 

[mistertim]

3 minutes ago, wit33 said:

All guys listed relief on their legs to survive/succeed their first 2-3 years, then the journey for each individual takes its own path. A main part of their production early on was rushing the football. Dak maybe not. Those are most of the elite runners in the NFL of the last 5 years.
 

How is Jackson coming back to earth? He’s top 5 for most as far as being the MVP of the league, continues to put up historic numbers, will most likely be in the playoffs (every season of his career). You are witnessing the start of a hall of fame career, yet you say he’s coming back to earth. 

 

None of those guys (Russ, Allen, Murray, Dak, etc) were running QBs. Yes they used their legs to help get them by when they started but it wasn't their focus. Their focus was on becoming elite NFL passers who used their legs as necessary. Guys like Vick, RG3, Cam, and Jackson are running QBs.

 

As far as Jackson he's gone down in pretty much every category since his huge 2019 season. Passing TD% is down, INT% is up, QBR steadily down. His running is still very good certainly, but that's only going to last him so long. How is 13 TDs and 7 INTs with a 58 QBR "historic"?

 

IMO the only way he sniffs the HoF is if he very quickly develops from a running QB who can pass well when necessary to a passing QB who can run when necessary. And his passing numbers are going in the opposite direction of that at the moment.

 

And that's all also assuming he won't get hurt, which is unfortunately likely to happen at some point with a running QB.

[wit33]

44 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

None of those guys (Russ, Allen, Murray, Dak, etc) were running QBs. Yes they used their legs to help get them by when they started but it wasn't their focus. Their focus was on becoming elite NFL passers who used their legs as necessary. Guys like Vick, RG3, Cam, and Jackson are running QBs.

 

I’ll concede Dak to a degree, but Russ, Allen, and Murray were all highly reliant on their running ability early on in their careers. Murray has been banged up his whole NFL career because of it. Russ was a zone read dude during the SB years and during his rookie contract. Josh Allen would’ve been out of the league if he didn’t rush at a high level and create plays off-script. 

Are they all more talented passers of the football than Jackson to date? No doubt. Russ and Murray have two of historic rushing seasons for QBs in terms of yards. Allen is a monster running the ball in the red zone. He was a running QB early on (just a white dude is all) and has made huge leaps throwing the football.

 

Jackson has been the healthiest of them all. 

 

44 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

As far as Jackson he's gone down in pretty much every category since his huge 2019 season. Passing TD% is down, INT% is up, QBR steadily down. His running is still very good certainly, but that's only going to last him so long. How is 13 TDs and 7 INTs with a 58 QBR "historic"?

 

Another historic rushing season individually and as a team. He’s up there in winning percentage to start a career and over 40 games. He’s in year 4 and is trending to be in playoffs all years, and is the primary reason why. The Ravens aren’t a great football team this season, but find themselves number on their division. 
 

 

44 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

IMO the only way he sniffs the HoF is if he very quickly develops from a running QB who can pass well when necessary to a passing QB who can run when necessary. And his passing numbers are going in the opposite direction of that at the moment.

 

He’s very much trending towards the hall of fame. What numbers say he’s not? It’s no longer just about passing stats for the QB. 

 

He doesn't have to be pass first QB to win, he’s already winning as an elite dual threat QB. He’s had many big passing games in his NFL career. 
 

It’s quite interesting, guys romantic with the old school football should appreciate the dual threat guys, they are the modern day ground and pound approach. Hoping Jackson breaks through. Newton was closed 

 

44 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

And that's all also assuming he won't get hurt, which is unfortunately likely to happen at some point with a running QB.

No injuries to date, but yes, it’s likely for an NFL player to get hurt. He’s also a skillful runner with an ability to avoid big hits. Attaching him to other runnign QBs who got injured isn’t right, in my opinion. 

Edited November 11, 2021 by wit33

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

I’ll concede Dak to a degree, but Russ, Allen, and Murray were all highly reliant on their running ability early on in their careers. Murray has been banged up his whole NFL career because of it. Russ was a zone read dude during the SB years and during his rookie contract. Josh Allen would’ve been out of the league if he didn’t rush at a high level and create plays off-script. 

Are they all more talented passers of the football than Jackson to date? No doubt. Russ and Murray have two of historic rushing seasons for QBs in terms of yards. Allen is a monster running the ball in the red zone. He was a running QB early on (just a white dude is all) and has made huge leaps throwing the football.

 

Jackson has been the healthiest of them all. 

 

 

Another historic rushing season individually and as a team. He’s up there in winning percentage to start a career and over 40 games. He’s in year 4 and is trending to be in playoffs all years, and is the primary reason why. The Ravens aren’t a great football team this season, but find themselves number on their division. 
 

 

 

He’s very much trending towards the hall of fame. What numbers say he’s not? It’s no longer just about passing stats for the QB. 

 

He doesn't have to be pass first QB to win, he’s already winning as an elite dual threat QB. He’s had many big passing games in his NFL career. 
 

It’s quite interesting, guys romantic with the old school football should appreciate the dual threat guys, they are the modern day ground and pound approach. Hoping Jackson breaks through. Newton was closed 

 

No injuries to date, but yes, it’s likely for an NFL player to get hurt. He’s also a skillful runner with an ability to avoid big hits. Attaching him to other runnign QBs who got injured isn’t right, in my opinion. 

 

Cool, so he's rushed for 600 yards and 2 TDs, passed for 13 TDs and 7 INTs and now he's on a HoF trajectory? You said he was putting up historic numbers. There's nothing historic about his numbers this season and his passing numbers have regressed every season since 2019. His running ability isn't going to last all that much longer than most RBs I'd guess. That's why I say most running QBs likely have a much shorter shelf life. If you took away Jackson's running ability, do you think he'd still be a top QB? Unlikely. 

 

And I never said he had to be a pass first QB to win. However, my assertion in my posts was that I'd much rather have top pass first QB with athleticism than a running QB because running QBs don't last nearly as long and I think a pass first QB will absolutely be a better bet in the long run. And there's nothing so far to really disprove that.

 

Cam only lasted as long as his legs would carry him, which was about 8 seasons and I'm honestly surprised he lasted that long, though it's probably because he's so big. Vick had a few electric seasons but later was mostly pedestrian once he wasn't as much of a running threat. RG3 is done. Jackson is currently the main running QB in the league and I'd guess Lance will be next up. Jackson's passing numbers have objectively gone down both seasons since his monster year and IMO he's only a mediocre pure passer so once he gets more wear and loses a couple of steps I have a feeling he'll also end up pedestrian.

 

All of the guys you talked about (Russ, Murray, Allen, Dak) may have relied a lot on their ability to run at first, but that was only until their ability as passers caught up. Jackson's game and passing is going in the opposite direction at the moment. That's why I say those guys aren't "running QBs" and Jackson is. All of those guys would likely still be top notch QBs without their scrambling ability, but I don't think Jackson would.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[wit33]

58 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Cool, so he's rushed for 600 yards and 2 TDs, passed for 13 TDs and 7 INTs and now he's on a HoF trajectory? You said he was putting up historic numbers. There's nothing historic about his numbers this season and his passing numbers have regressed every season since 2019. His running ability isn't going to last all that much longer than most RBs I'd guess. That's why I say most running QBs likely have a much shorter shelf life. If you took away Jackson's running ability, do you think he'd still be a top QB? Unlikely. 
 

 

You are way undervaluing his rushing yards. It appears you’re scoffing at 600 rushing yards in 8 games. I think we the fan don’t quite yet know how to value a QBs rushing yards to winning and playing the position at a high level. I’m not sure his 600 rushing yards don’t equate to 15td passes or something like that. It’s not a throw away stat just because he’s a QB.

 

He wouldn’t be in the NFL without his running ability. Not arguing that. I don’t think he’s an accurate thrower of the football not does appear to read defenses very well (I don’t think most modern day young QBs  read the field well). Always thought Mahomes and most others with playmaking are 1 read or high to low/low to high, then scramble to make a play. 
 

58 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

And I never said he had to be a pass first QB to win. However, my assertion in my posts was that I'd much rather have top pass first QB with athleticism than a running QB because running QBs don't last nearly as long and I think a pass first QB will absolutely be a better bet in the long run. And there's nothing so far to really disprove that.

 

No issues with that.

 

My idea with the elite athletic QB is that can reasonably project his impact on the game and early on versus a Sam Darnold, Tua, or Trubisky. 
 

Give me Mike Vick for 7 years versus Ryan Leaf. 
 

The bust rate is much lower. 
 

58 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Cam only lasted as long as his legs would carry him, which was about 8 seasons and I'm honestly surprised he lasted that long, though it's probably because he's so big. Vick had a few electric seasons but later was mostly pedestrian once he wasn't as much of a running threat. RG3 is done. Jackson is currently the main running QB in the league and I'd guess Lance will be next up. Jackson's passing numbers have objectively gone down both seasons since his monster year and IMO he's only a mediocre pure passer so once he gets more wear and loses a couple of steps I have a feeling he'll also end up pedestrian.

 

Jackson will be a starting QB at 35 and still providing a dual threat ability. Sure, at a much lesser level. Vick was starting at 35 as well. 

 

58 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

All of the guys you talked about (Russ, Murray, Allen, Dak) may have relied a lot on their ability to run at first, but that was only until their ability as passers caught up. Jackson's game and passing is going in the opposite direction at the moment. That's why I say those guys aren't "running QBs" and Jackson is. All of those guys would likely still be top notch QBs without their scrambling ability, but I don't think Jackson would.

Noooo, those guys would not be top notch QBs. All those guys wouldn’t be starters without their super powers as runners, in my opinion. 

Edited November 11, 2021 by wit33

[88Comrade2000]

Cam will torch our defense when we face the Panthers.

[skins island connection]

9 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

What’s crazy is Buffalo didn’t even have to give up an additional first rounder to essentially move from 21 to 7

 

 I think the 'cat's outta the bag' on draft day.

Everyone knows that if there's something that catches Snyder's eyes, he will give up the farm to get it, so anyone sitting higher can rest assured that valuable draft picks will be coming their way. 

[PartyPosse]

1 hour ago, skins island connection said:

 

 I think the 'cat's outta the bag' on draft day.

Everyone knows that if there's something that catches Snyder's eyes, he will give up the farm to get it, so anyone sitting higher can rest assured that valuable draft picks will be coming their way. 

Have we done that since 2012? That's like saying we're still the offseason champs because we offer huge contracts. It's just not true,

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

10 hours ago, skins island connection said:

 

 I think the 'cat's outta the bag' on draft day.

Everyone knows that if there's something that catches Snyder's eyes, he will give up the farm to get it, so anyone sitting higher can rest assured that valuable draft picks will be coming their way. 

 

Snyder still inserts himself clearly to get the QB he wants.  But they haven't really given the store in the draft since 2012.  I recall even one of the stories about Haskins at the time was their scouts couldn't talk Dan out of Haskins but they did convince him not to trade up presumably because they didn't think another team would get in the way before their pick.

[mistertim]

16 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

Jackson will be a starting QB at 35 and still providing a dual threat ability. Sure, at a much lesser level. Vick was starting at 35 as well. 

 

I really don't want to get into a huge drawn out debate on this, but I didn't say he'd never be a starter when older. I said he'd probably be pedestrian. Barring huge injuries there's certainly a possibility that Jackson will be starting at 35 somewhere. But my guess is that he won't be anything dominant. Mostly just a mediocre QB at that point because he will have lost a few steps by then and won't be nearly the running threat.

 

That's one of the core issues with me. Even if an elite running QB survives past a certain expiration date, the likelihood of him still being a game changing player is probably greatly diminished. Whereas an elite passing QB will probably still be elite in his mid 30s. That's why I'm pretty meh on running QBs nowadays.

[Est.1974]

Seems a no brainer that we need to bring in one of these mid tier vets in the offseason, with a decent sum of guaranteed salary in 2022, along with using our first rounder on the best QB prospect in the draft that we can get to. Either one that falls to us or is available at a reasonable trade cost.

Edited November 12, 2021 by UK SKINS FAN 74

[wit33]

52 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I really don't want to get into a huge drawn out debate on this, but I didn't say he'd never be a starter when older. I said he'd probably be pedestrian. Barring huge injuries there's certainly a possibility that Jackson will be starting at 35 somewhere. But my guess is that he won't be anything dominant. Mostly just a mediocre QB at that point because he will have lost a few steps by then and won't be nearly the running threat.

 

The debate has already been drawn out lol

 

No doubt, the expectation for himself I’m sure will be to improve as a QB over the next 10 years to still remain effective. I believe a guy can do that over the course of his career. The NFL historically has been extremely unfair to the dual threat QBs, but that’s now changing with rules protecting the offensive players, old people/coaches romantic with how their high school coach in 60s and 70s taught them how the game should be played for most part are out of the league, and the infusion of RPO/ROs and schemes that support the athletic QB.
 

 

52 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

That's one of the core issues with me. Even if an elite running QB survives past a certain expiration date, the likelihood of him still being a game changing player is probably greatly diminished. Whereas an elite passing QB will probably still be elite in his mid 30s. That's why I'm pretty meh on running QBs nowadays.

 

 

Yes, the elite passing QB likely will provide much better returns in their mid 30s than a guy who relies on his legs as part of his way to impact games. No argument. Good luck finding that guy.  I’ve been waiting 30 years for an elite pocket QB to be the guy 18 seasons or whatever. But, I did see a rookie who wasn’t a great running QB, more a straight line speed guy, galvanize a whole fan base and make most feel Washington could beat anyone that season. 
 

The league is getting much more athletic at the QB spot, so the competitive edge RG3 provided 10 years ago isn’t the same today, but still feel there’s value with having an elite dual threat guy. Main reason being, it’s much easier to project what the elite running QB can provide your offense, this in year 1. Year 1 a rookie elite running QB can provide unique returns and instantly make the running game dynamic. Then hope he makes strides as a passer. 

Like you, don’t want to go much further with this, but I’ve enjoyed it. If you got an elite pocket QB in mind for Washington to grab let me know. I’m all in on that as well. Until then, let’s get a dual threat guy and be in the playoffs each season. 

Edited November 12, 2021 by wit33

[Skinsinparadise]

Some gossip.  The first part is spilled milk.  Mike Jones who said he knows from talking to Kyle Shanahan at the time was told by him they offered their first round pick in the draft for Kirk (2nd pick in the draft that year).  Now, that's been mentioned here before.  Ditto Jay saying that was true.

 

Jay Gruden added more to it on Sheehan's latest podcast.  He said they could have gotten that #1 pick and the following years #1 too.  And change from SF.  And suggested they had other teams potentially in the mix.  He said his feeling was Bruce-Dan couldn't stomach Kirk going to SF to play for Kyle and Dan-Bruce thought they had a shot to resign him at that juncture

 

On a Keim podcast, he said he heard that D. Watson if hits the trade market would unlikely (he has a no trade clause) accept a trade here. 

[Thinking Skins]

On 11/12/2021 at 10:53 AM, wit33 said:

The league is getting much more athletic at the QB spot, so the competitive edge RG3 provided 10 years ago isn’t the same today, but still feel there’s value with having an elite dual threat guy. Main reason being, it’s much easier to project what the elite running QB can provide your offense, this in year 1. Year 1 a rookie elite running QB can provide unique returns and instantly make the running game dynamic. Then hope he makes strides as a passer. 

I'll agree with this and say that the league is looking a lot more like HS ball where the most athletic guy is at QB and everything just works from there. In my HS, our team Qb was like 5'7 but he had blazing speed, so he'd drop back and just trying it half the time. And we were unstoppable. 

 

The passing game is an important part of the league, but as we move to a paint league, we're also moving to a mobile QB league where we don't have RBs getting 1200 yards. We're seeing more dual backfields and some where the QB is a threat too. You don't want him taking too many hits but if you draft a running QB in the first with the hopes of getting value or of him (not a franchise guy) then this seems like a good philosophy.