The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[CommanderInTheRye]

2 hours ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

Going off memory which is dangerous at my age, but I think Baltimore had a head coach that acted like a marine corps drill instructor (every practice was like the first 40 mins of Full Metal Jacket) and both he and his dad wanted no part of that.

 

 

 

 

Looks like I wasn't that far off...

 

 

 

Frank Kush, a gridiron dictator.

 

 

The real reason Elway ended up in Denver? Frank Kush

 

By Vito Stellino

 

"When Frank Kush died Thursday at age 88, his obituaries featured his role in transforming Arizona State into a national football power and a university during his two decades there.’

 

He then had his Woody Hayes moment and punched punter Jeff Rutledge on the sidelines and was fired a year later in 1979. His players carried him off the field after his last game.

 

The way his career ended was obscured over the years by the memories of how he built Arizona State with his hard-nosed style of coaching.

 

Also overlooked was the fact that Kush leaving Arizona State wound up starting a series of events that helped lead to John Elway spending his career in Denver and ending up as the team’s general manager.

 

Kush was coaching the Baltimore Colts in 1983 when they had the first pick in the draft, and Elway was the obvious choice. But he let it be known he didn’t want to play in Baltimore.

 

Most people assumed Elway didn’t want to play for a team owned by Bob Irsay, whose own mother once told a reporter he was a “devil on earth.’’

 

That may have been a factor, but the bigger reason was that Elway’s father, Jack Elway, a college coach in his day, didn’t want his son playing for Kush.

 

Whether it was personal or whether he didn’t think Elway would thrive playing for Kush was never really explained..."

 

Entire article can be found here...

 

https://vitostellino.com/2017/06/23/the-real-reason-elway-ended-up-in-denver-frank-kush/

 

 

  .

Edited March 15 by CommanderInTheRye

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

12 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

 

I think the ownership group, FO, and HC are all in good communication and collaboration and the conversation would go like this:

 

AP/DQ: Hey, we think Caleb has all the talent in the world but we know there are lots of distractions for someone of his pedigree. What's your take on the family, Magic?

 

EMJ: Carl is a bit overbearing but it comes from a loving place. Caleb is emotional but an earnest and good kid. Doesn't run around with a bad crowd. I'm not concerned.

 

AP/DQ: Great let's try and go get him!

 

Meanwhile convo in the Williams household:

 

Carl: Son, look what Magic did transitioning from playing career to being a businessman. He's a role model! Think about the opportunities to learn from a guy like that.

 

Caleb: I love it! Btw, which shade of blue do you think looks better? <holds up two fingers: one painted navy and one painted cyan. "F * * * M A R A" written on his knuckles in Sharpie>

 

Caleb's phone: <missed call from Ryan Poles>

 

 

Magic thinks we should bring in Peyton Manning and see if he has anything left in the tank.

 

"Oh man....when Peyton was throwin that ball to Marvin....and Kareem.....Showtime!!"

 

I think my Magic character is going to start to develop dementia. There is comedy gold there.

 

15 hours ago, WashingtonRedWolves said:

Howell gets that kind of return and people think the bears can’t get anything for fields? They never had any intention of trading him

 Fields contract is terrifying.

 

That's the major problem there.

 

I'm sure a lot of teams are Fields-curious.

 

No one is willing to pay $25 million to try it.

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[HigSkin]

Just read that Standig reported there were 4 teams, including Denver that were in on the Howell interest.  That would certainly drive up the pick value

 

 

Edited March 15 by HigSkin

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

16 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

Grant Paulsen seems surprised at the return for Howell. Not me, he showed enough last year to these eyes and the tykes first game and win last year. I said I would take a 3rd for him and while we really only moved up a bunch of draft spots ~25x2 feel good with the return. I hope he lights it up in Seattle. I may be alone but am happy to see AP moving picks up in the draft.

 

 

 

 

[RWJ]

3 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

Just read that Standig reported there were 4 teams, including Denver that were in on the Howell interest.  That would certainly drive up the pick value

 

 

There ya go, HigSkins!    I believe that Peters took the best offer he could get.  I told someone else I expect us to end up with as many as 13 selections in the draft when it's all said and done.    

[CommanderInTheRye]

6 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

Just read that Standig reported there were 4 teams, including Denver that were in on the Howell interest.  That would certainly drive up the pick value

 

 

 

 

You are correct sir.

 

From Standig's article in The Athletic...

 

"...Anyone who guzzled the Howell-is-him hype after former head coach Ron Rivera effectively named him QB1 in January 2023 despite one career start may disagree — especially when they saw the new hope throw four touchdown passes in a rematch with the Philadelphia Eagles and lead a 20-17 road win over the New England Patriots.

 

“Sam Howell is our future,” defensive tackle Jonathan Allen said after the New England victory. “He’s our quarterback. I feel like we found our quarterback for the next 5-10 years, and I truly believe that.”

 

The Pro Bowler wasn’t alone. When a team goes 30 years with minimal QB stability — Howell became the eighth different starter since 2020 — trading away a promising passer may seem dubious.

 

Multiple teams have checked in on Howell’s availability in recent days and four were involved in the bidding process, according to a league source involved in the situation. Two front-office executives with other teams — one in the quarterback derby — told The Athletic earlier this month they would consider trading at least a fourth for Howell. They didn’t discount the tougher-than-tough player despite his struggles and shortcomings. Thriving on any level amid Washington’s lame duck season was a chore.

 

“We were sweating it out,” Seahawks general manager John Schneider said during an interview with Seattle Sports following the trade. “There were several teams involved. … He’s a quarterback, but he’s really a football player. That’s what I love about him.”

 

Those who have a lasting memory of the role Howell played as Washington unraveled see the trade as a shocking win.

 

The pre-draft concerns that dropped Howell from first-round consideration to Day 3 were displayed over 17 starts. The first-year starter led the league with 21 interceptions and contributed to Washington’s 65 allowed sacks by holding the ball too long. Howell was benched in-game twice during the Commanders’ season-ending eight-game losing streak."

 

Edited March 15 by CommanderInTheRye

[RandyHolt]

FWIW for all those sacks assuming may sagging mamory serves me correctly, it sure seems like Howell didn't fumble very often. Also worth noting, in this day and age of advanced stats FINALLY - didn't he lead the league in pass attempts?  I would blindly assume the league leader in PA would also lead the league in sacks, and INTs. He played in a tough MF division the front of our 3 divisional rivals were stout. I am happy to hear he had many teams calling for his services for it shows him passing my eye test for 10 weeks means it wasnt blind homerism..

Edited March 15 by RandyHolt

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

6 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

FWIW for all those sacks assuming may sagging mamory serves me correctly, it sure seems like Howell didn't fumble very often. Also worth noting, in this day and age of advanced stats FINALLY - didn't he lead the league in pass attempts?  I would blindly assume the league leader in PA would also lead the league in sacks, and INTs. He played in a tough MF division the front of our 3 divisional rivals were stout. I am happy to hear he had many teams calling for his services for it shows him passing my eye test for 10 weeks means it wasnt blind homerism..

 

 

 

[Warhead36]

9 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

FWIW for all those sacks assuming may sagging mamory serves me correctly, it sure seems like Howell didn't fumble very often. Also worth noting, in this day and age of advanced stats FINALLY - didn't he lead the league in pass attempts?  I would blindly assume the league leader in PA would also lead the league in sacks, and INTs. He played in a tough MF division the front of our 3 divisional rivals were stout. I am happy to hear he had many teams calling for his services for it shows him passing my eye test for 10 weeks means it wasnt blind homerism..

He looked okay the first part of the season. He wasn't amazing. His biggest games were against an awful Eagle secondary. He also played well in the 2nd half against a terrible Broncos secondary(the next week they gave up 70). He was also AWFUL against teams like Buffalo and 1st half of Chicago among others.

 

And the second part of the season he was downright abysmal. Legitimate candidate for worst QB in the league.

 

We should be grateful Peters was able to extract max value for what was a bottom of the barrel QB that was a 5th round pick by a now fired regime that already has half his rookie contract gone.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[clskinsfan]

 

[ntotoro]

Are Grant and Not Funny Danny going all Cousins fanboy squee on Howell now... ?

[Number 44]

6 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

This certainly doesn't make it look like a good idea.

[Rolo Tomasie]

11 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Oof! Watch out, Minny/Giants/Broncos

[Voice_of_Reason]

A few odds and ends:

 

- The Vikings certainly seem like they are positioning for a move up for a QB.  However, I don't think they're getting to #3. Here's the thing, though: None of the teams picking from 5 - 10 (Vikings are 11) are picking QBs unless the Giants do at 6.  So maybe the thinking is you have to hop the Giants at 6 to get McCarthy, or they take him.  Otherwise, QB4 falls to 11, absent a trade up. I'm going to assume (see later) McCarthy is QB4.

#4 - The Cardinals are not drafting McCarthy this year. They'll take Harrison Jr. and live with Murray.  

#5 - Chargers. Not taking a QB

#6 - Giants.  They could take McCarthy. Or they could take one of the best tackles on the board.  To me, McCarthy reminds me a ton of Daniel Jones.  

#7 - Titans.  Maybe? Doubtful though.  But they have a young QB who was promising.  

#8 - Falcons. No.  Just signed Kirk.

#9 - Bears.  No. Will have just taken Williams

#10 - Jets. No. They have a small window with Rodgers so I assume they'd try and build around him while they have him.

#11 - Vikings. They would take McCarthy.

 

The next question is, who else would like to move up to get QB4 who's behind the Vikings?

#12 - Denver

#13 - Raiders

#14 - Saints (even though they have Carr)

 

I can't think of anybody else who would trade up who hasn't already solved their problem for now.  

 

The question for the Vikings, what's the difference between QB4 and QB5, and do you like QB5.  Because if you do, you almost certainly get QB5 at 11.  And there's a non-zero chance you get QB4. 

 

- I think a lot of you are going to be shocked when the draft goes Williams, Maye, Daniels.  You shouldn't be shocked.  This is, by far, the most likely scenario based on the way the NFL operates and overall evaluates talent and prospects.  The fact the media has drummed up all the interest in Daniels so there can be conversation is the only reason it's not obvious.  

 

PS: I will raise an eyebrow but not be shocked if it goes Williams, Daniels, Maye.  But I think there is now a large contingent who believe Daniels is the defacto #2 pick, and picking Maye ahead of him would be a "reach" and that's not true.  

 

- McCarthy has a GREAT agent.  

 

- We're not trading up to #1 to get Williams.  Williams is going to go to the bears. There might be some chatter, but that's what's going to happen.

[The Consigliere]

6 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

What do you mean, they aren't trading it? Heads up speaking in absolutes without proof detracts from your otherwise insightful posts.

 

To all the fellow Howlers out there that still believed in the kid, that didn't believe he had his only chance and failed, and that he wouldn't be unloaded for a 5th.

Well, there's speaking in their absolutes, and then there's this. Could the Bears trade out? Yep. But how often does a team willing trade out in the modern NFL era when they have a franchise QB at slot 1.01 whose considered one of the best in a generation? It's happened once in the past 40 years (and twice in the last 41). Yes it could happen, but its HUGELY unlikely. There is no way in hell the Bears would do it unless Caleb gave them no choice and why is Caleb giving them no choice? To play in New England or Washington instead? That's insanity. Chicago's better positioned to win, period. And it's a big time city too, it's not Carolina or Tampa or whatever, its Chicago, the biggest of the big cities between the East Coast and West. And he could be the first QB to win them a Super Bowl in 40 years (and for the Bears, that was their first relevance, in '85, in basically 40 years at the time). Basically he'd be insane to demand a trade. This isn't Drunk Irsay's Colts, or cheapskate LA's red haired Stepchild San Diego, this is Chicago. So I struggle to see it.

 

As for Howell, right back at ya, did not trade a single share of my dynasty Howell stock this offseason. We'll see if that was stupid or not, but I believe the guy could be a solid one, maybe even special. 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

1 minute ago, The Consigliere said:

,This is Chicago. So I struggle to see it.

 

 

The Bears have been run by a vaguely sentient skeleton for the past 25 years or so.

 

I think that with Snyder finally having retired to a nice farm upstate, that may be the worst ownership situation in the league.

[The Consigliere]

6 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

We were never going to trade out of the pick or take any one other than a QB at two.  But it's kind of incredible to me that some can't see that even now, after we've traded Howell.

 

Adam Peters was the top GM candidate in the entire NFL this hiring cycle.  Why does everyone think he took the job here when he could have had any open spot?

They're not thinking, they're wishing (and foolishly wishing at that).

 

The only reason anyone gave half a ---- about this ob, as you say, was that this job came with the #2 pick overall, in a 3 elite prospect QB draft. We drew the GM candidates we drew, and the top of the coaching prospect interest we drew precisely because:

#1 the 1.02

giant chasm

#2 Snyder's gone

#3 ton of cap space and draft capital. 

 

The team WAS NEVER trading outside the top 3 EVER under any scenario. It's pretty crazy that anyone ever thought it, and flat out insane that anyone would still think its possible. To be fair to most of them: #1 they either don't like the QB's, and/or #2 they don't like them AND they're delusional. 

4 hours ago, spjunkies said:

 

I'm curious, what was Elway's good reason? I've always heard that he didn't want to play on the east coast. 

 

 

I've never seen for sure what it was, but I would guess he had inside info that Irsay was a raging lush, and already knew the team was completely and totally incompetently run. Could be east coast too. I think they did a 30/30 on it on espn, but I can't remember if it addressed exactly why: just that Elway was deadset, 1000% not going there. It's wild to look back at those trades and consider how little the teams got for 1.01. That would NEVER happen these days. NEVER. Teams are far smarter and understand much better how valuable QB is back then. The Colts at least got a pro bowl caliber OL out of the trade, but the payoff for moving down was so ridiculously light it beggars belief in retrospect. Can be hard to trade, when everyone knows you have to but it was the best QB prospect to come out since Namath. It wasn't complicated. They should've been able to get a heist, but the league was just too stupid back then (see Jim Kelly lasting to the mid 1st, Dan Marino to 27, Darrell Green to 28 etc). A very, very, very dumb league. 

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

9 minutes ago, Lombardi&#x27;s_kid_brother said:

 

The Bears have been run by a vaguely sentient skeleton for the past 25 years or so.

 

I think that with Snyder finally having retired to a nice farm upstate, that may be the worst ownership situation in the league.

Nah. The guy they fleeced out of the 2024 first overall pick has got to be the worst.

 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

4 minutes ago, Sacks &#x27;n&#x27; Stuff said:

Nah. The guy they fleeced out of the 2024 first overall pick has got to be the worst.

 

 

Oh I keep forgetting about him. It's like a Q-Anon obsessed Bass Pro Shop manager became an owner.

[purbeast]

Good riddance Howell.  It was fun while it lasted.  But he had all year to prove he was "the guy" and he basically did nothing but regressed.  He led us to 4 whole wins and like the most picks thrown in the NFL. He sucks.

 

As Sheehan said, "if you don't know if you have your QB, you don't have your QB."

 

And yeah, with him he clearly wasn't the guy.

[CommanderInTheRye]

Good Morning Football on Commanders trade of Howell and our plans for the second pick...

 

 

 

[The Consigliere]

3 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

It's starting to sound like Bowers might drop and if he starts to, it could slide pretty far.

Seems as much about team needs as anything. You look at the teams picking between 4 and 13, and virtually none of them need a TE. Even teams that could go in that direction like Tennessee and NYG, would probably prefer to target other positions. I can't find any team between slot 4 and 13 that needs a TE, and could prioritize one other than maybe the Jets (Conklin is a solid catch and fall guy but there isn't any ceiling there). Really until probably New Orleans at 14, nobody makes even a little sense, and for a team capped out and screwed like the Saints, why would they waste their best offseason asset on boutique offensive need?

 

It's one of the weirdest things you've seen, because he's every bit the prospect Pitts was, but unlike Pitts, he's tumbling into a draft where the mix of talent available, and teams picking means he could really slip. If we want, we could certainly make a package to make a run if he's still there towards the early teens. I think the most likely slots seem like 7, 10 and 14, I can't see the Giants going that direction when they're doing a tear down. If they can't get a QB, I imagine they'd go WR or OL. So if we want to make the move up, we could, I just think it would be stupid with how many issues we have. But man? If he fell out of the top 20, at that point, I'm getting on the phone, I don't think I'd get on the phone top 15, because I want to attack WR and OL in round 2.