The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[seantaylor=god]

I thought the first retweet was borderline but the second one? 
 

Either the Agent is a moron (unlikely) or he’s doing his best to alienate Commanders and avoid Jayden going to Washington.

 

Why? Jayden clearly wants to go to a coaching staff that believes in him and wants him. He wants to go to Las Vegas to be with AP, that relationship has already been discussed.
 

I don’t know if Patriots are a means to that end or he likes the fit and wooing from Pats.
 

Also, possible Giants, Vikings, or team like Denver has communicated to agent their desire to trade up and Commanders have essentially closed the door on a trade down that far (rightfully so).

 

This is all speculation but it’s grounded in logic. 
 

Will this matter if GMAP believes Daniels is far and away the best QB? No, we pick him regardless and he sucks it up and it’s over by May. But for a group that seems to value buy in and relationship building it would be a strange outcome.

Edited April 18 by seantaylor=god

[JamesMadisonSkins]

JD's agent never clarified as far as I can see, but one of his liked tweets after the post was from a Commanders fan basically saying don't read into the comment, and the agent was likely taking issue with Florio's take on the visit. 

 

To me that makes it a nothingburger, but it could also be the agent trying to cover his tracks while also creating fodder if there was an actual intent to drive Daniels elsewhere. Hard to say.

[seantaylor=god]

1 minute ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

JD's agent never clarified as far as I can see, but one of his liked tweets after the post was from a Commanders fan basically saying don't read into the comment, and the agent was likely taking issue with Florio's take on the visit. 

 

To me that makes it a nothingburger, but it could also be the agent trying to cover his tracks while also creating fodder if there was an actual intent to drive Daniels elsewhere. Hard to say.

It’s definitely possible his agent is stupid, sloppy, and bad at communicating. 

[The Consigliere]

17 hours ago, Llevron said:

 

Thats funny cause all the stats on that page are from Ben Solaks personal film study lol 

 

The 'our method' section is basically Ben looks at film and then makes the charts. 

So the same thing as PFF. 

[MartinC]

10 minutes ago, seantaylor=god said:

It’s definitely possible his agent is stupid, sloppy, and bad at communicating. 

 

Then he's in the wrong job.

 

The more likely explanation is people are reading WAY to much into all this.

 

When is the draft again? roll on ..

[kingdaddy]

22 hours ago, rumplestilskin said:

Hoping we let New England know that Daniels is our first choice but would be willing to swap picks if they absolutely need him at the right price. If Peters does infact covet Drake the most, all the JD to Washington hype is playing in our favour for a little extra compensation.  If not I am on board with whomever they select but there is definitely something about Maye I like the most.

I also hope Peters is trying to bait NE into moving up a spot if we know for sure they won't take our guy. Pick up another pick.

[Fred Jones]

I don't understand the logic of trading with NE.  If Maye is our guy, we are going to pick Maye with the #2 pick in the draft.  If Daniels is our guy, we pick him.

 

We are not going to trade the pick under the assumption that NE wants a particular player.  I apologize, but not how it works.

 

And yes, what the agent said is being blown up in this thread.  But, with all these passionate fans that are starved for a franchise level QB to lead the team, can't blame anyone.  Glad I am not a MOD to have to police it up.

[seantaylor=god]

6 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

Then he's in the wrong job.

 

The more likely explanation is people are reading WAY to much into all this.

 

When is the draft again? roll on ..

I don’t understand- do you think he had another intent? 
 

Was it a just a mistake on the agent to like a critical point about potential employer?

 

I acknowledge it means nothing if we think he’s the better player, we can take him regardless.

 

 

 

[Dah-Dee]

 

https://www.tarheelblog.com/2024/4/17/24132702/unc-football-tar-heels-nfl-draft-drake-maye-preview-stock-up-down-quarterback-selection-process

Please stop being dumb about Drake Maye

On a pre-draft process that just doesn’t make sense

By Akil Guruparan@akillesheel17  Apr 17, 2024, 3:00pm EDT 

 

 

I want to pre-empt this article by saying that some of what I’m going to say, including the thrust of my point, has already been said excellently by Joseph Acosta at the SB Nation mothership. I did think, though, that what we’re seeing happen and be discussed regarding Drake Maye and the NFL Draft deserves a fan perspective, so here we are.

 

I’m just going to come right out and say it: The national conversation around Drake Maye, and specifically the way it has come about, is downright silly. It would be one thing if Maye had given any indication that the preternatural traits he showed in 2022 were a fluke, but that’s not what happened. Instead, after nearly two full years of being considered absolutely no worse than this draft’s second-best quarterback prospect and in a tier belonging solely to him and Caleb Williams, the consensus among laypeople, and apparently actual NFL decision-makers, is that he’s suddenly not that guy and well below the top, jockeying with the good-not-great prospects of the class. Depending on who you listen to, the concern is his footwork (messy, but pretty easily fixable), his ball security (best quarterback in the class at avoiding turnover-worthy plays, and while his interception numbers went up this year, a lot of it was down to inconsistent receiving personnel and a bad interior offensive line), his throwing motion (nah), or the fact that he had his worst games the last two games of the year, against the two best defenses he played (complete coaching failures let him down in both). I haven’t yet seen anybody put all these concerns together, probably because they know that if they did, they’d be describing a Day 2-3 prospect, and everybody knows that’s ridiculous — but then you realize that if everybody thinks the other concerns are fake or overblown, maybe they all are. Even without the excuses, which I think are entirely valid, these don’t feel like major downsides to Maye as a prospect, and they seem to me to reflect him being held to a different standard than his peers.

 

The thing that frustrates me most is that seemingly everybody on the football internet that I trust to know ball and have well-founded opinions has not wavered in rating Maye highly. Draft Analyst Dane Brugler of The Athletic, the hardest worker in sports this time of year, has him as QB2. Derrik Klassen of Reception Perception has him as his QB1. The Athletic’s film expert, Ted Nguyen, went into the tape to compare Maye with Jayden Daniels and concluded that “After studying both quarterbacks closely, Maye might be closer to challenging Williams than he is to Daniels as a prospect.” Benjamin Solak at The Ringer put together this great video challenging the reasons that the internet seemed to have fallen out of love with Maye. NFL Tiktok thought leader Theo Ash has consistently advocated, with the film to back him up, that Maye and Williams are the two first-overall-caliber quarterback prospects in this draft. I have no idea why, then, the intel from NFL front offices seems to mirror that of laypeople and not the people who have shown they know what they’re talking about, but it’s what’s happening. As of right now, Jayden Daniels’ odds to be the #2 pick in the draft are well in front of anybody else’s and growing further.

 

Beyond that, it’s so easy, in my view, to see why Drake is an elite prospect. He is the best in the class, and will immediately be among the NFL’s elite, at targeting the deep middle of the field, which is going to be an incredible gift after the NFL’s recent Cover-2 revolution. He understands where pressure is going to come from and maximizes his pocket time like the best of them, and is also comfortable creating and finding escape routes when he needs to. He’s unique in the class for having the kind of frame he does, which lets him take contact and still make plays as a runner and passer, which is where some of his most viral highlights have come from — the lefty pass against Pittsburgh, the touchdown to Copenhaver against South Carolina, the fourth-down conversion against Duke, last year’s touchdown to Josh Downs against Miami, we all know the ones. He processes windows post-snap, especially at the intermediate level of the field, with the best of them. And for all the talk of a 2023 regression, I should note that in a new (and worse) offensive system and with a new (and worse) quarterbacks coach, he maintained his yards-per-attempt average across the two years. On a per-throw basis, he’s still that guy; it was the things around him that changed.

 

Maye is still going to be a top-5 pick, so the effects of this are minimal, I guess. UNC gets a marquee draft pick in the league either way, which is the big deal as far as this site is confirmed. Maybe the frustration is down to me being a hater and not wanting the league to gift the New England Patriots, picking at #3, another great quarterback, especially one I’ll want to root for. Or maybe it’s down to feeling that it’s being overlooked to what extent Maye carried last year’s UNC team to an even moderately successful season, in the face of team coverage that is raring into form to proclaim that this, finally, is the year that Mack Brown has gotten everything right that he promised would be right the past three years of UNC football. Perhaps it’s just me wanting online football discussion to be a little better informed, especially when that lack of information is mirroring NFL staffs — as a Panthers fan, it is incredibly frustrating to see an owner with no football knowledge beyond that of a casual fan involve himself in decision-making, so that process being replicated is annoying. But it’d make me happy, at the very least, if in these last two weeks, the conversation around Drake Maye started making some actual sense and he got the respect I strongly believe he deserves. If he doesn’t... I guess he’ll just have to get it once he’s on the field in the league. Just not for the Patriots, please.

Edited April 18 by Dah-Dee

[MartinC]

7 minutes ago, seantaylor=god said:

I don’t understand- do you think he had another intent? 
 

Was it a just a mistake on the agent to like a critical point about potential employer?

 

I acknowledge it means nothing if we think he’s the better player, we can take him regardless.

 

 

 

Its a like on a tweet. I would bet we have spent a lot more time thinking about this than his agent did (which is probably a mistake on the agents part - but we all make them). Taken at face value at worst it says the agent is not a fan of the way we managed the visit schedule, many on here agree with that.

 

What does any of that have to do with us drafting or not drafting Daniels - close to zero IMO.

[Warhead36]

Its just classic overthinking/prospect fatigue. Same thing happened with Justin Herbert. 

[seantaylor=god]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Its just classic overthinking/prospect fatigue. Same thing happened with Justin Herbert. 

Yeah Herbert was “not a leader” and not an “alpha” and other dumb stuff.

[Llevron]

30 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

So the same thing as PFF. 

 

Right. I don't put too much stock in any of them. But the guy I quote was specifically talking about how much he hates Solak so I was amused by it. 

 

Thought this was interesting btw haven't checked to see if any of you have posted it yet 

 

 

 

 

 

[Llevron]

Apparently the Patriots did the big group draft party deal too. Bill said as much on the McAfee podcast the other day. 

 

Which points to the idea that **** shouldn't be a big deal for anyone, especially not a players agent. Who you would think would know this already but who knows. 

[DogofWar1]

You can never be sure of what any other team will do.  If we like them both 1000000% the same, fine you can entertain a trade.  But if there's any preference no matter how slight and no matter how confident you are in what the Pats are doing, you can't make that trade.

 

If the Pats lie and take your guy, what's the recourse?  There is none.  You can't fashion a contract for them to pick so and so guaranteed, it's all words.

 

Sure you want your front office to be trustworthy and so maybe there's some value in not being complete jerks but like, I think if you think it'll get you chances at the Superbowl you absolutely lie about it.  No one is gonna call the Pats out for being untrustworthy if the guy they picked out from under us at 2 gives them 12+ years if success.  Heck they'll be lauded for it.  Called geniuses.

 

We control our own destiny, don't give that away for like a 3rd rounder.

[tmandoug1]

Question for the gurus about the QB selection.

 

Which QB is the best if they can't be a running QB due to an injury as in torn Achilles or knee type injury. Loss of mobility.

[skinny21]

I’ve moved past other such comments, because it’s kind of nitpicking, but the article above saying Maye has been qb 2 for “two full years” - man, those 10 throws from 2021 must have been truly amazing… 

[DogofWar1]

14 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Its just classic overthinking/prospect fatigue. Same thing happened with Justin Herbert. 

What I'm getting from this is Drake Maye needs to grow out his hair into some lucious locks when he hits the NFL.

[CommanderInTheRye]

13 hours ago, Jumbo said:

Folks: TK and I discussed the following matter earlier today.

 

I wish such an interruption wasn't necessary. And it's only necessary because of a small number of usually fine long time ES'ers.  But we're all human. 

 

In the last week there have been well more than a dozen posts from folks that included content that doesn't belong in this forum. Those posts were removed from view.

 

People who were repeat offenders didn't seem to notice. So please click on and read this link to the sticky thread at the top of the forum which has been updated today.

 

Now let's get back to the crazy of QB wars.  😁👍

 

 

I want to take this opportunity to apologize to the forum and the moderators for my recent poor posting choices that violated both the letter and intent of the well established published rules of the forum.

 

No excuses.

 

I am old enough to know better, and anything less than full compliance, regardless of intent or individual circumstance, is unacceptable.

 

Worst of all, it injures the forum, at a time when it needs my best, as it is under increased scrutiny and its future is less than certain.

 

I respect everyone here, even the very few members, who despite my best intentions, I just can't seem to find common ground with. I take our differences as evidence of my personal failings and limitations, not theirs.

 

I will work on being of benefit to this place, as I contemplate all of this, on the metaphorical "tree of woe".

 

 

 

 

Edited April 18 by CommanderInTheRye

[redskinss]

1 minute ago, skinny21 said:

I’ve moved past other such comments, because it’s kind of nitpicking, but the article above saying Maye has been qb 2 for “two full years” - man, those 10 throws from 2021 must have been truly amazing… 

 

I'm pretty sure they're just suggesting that maye in 22 and 23 was considered number 2 of the 24 class.

It's not a calendar year thing it's a season thing and only until last year was over and the draft talk started ramping up did daniels catch up with him.

[Llevron]

2 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

Question for the gurus about the QB selection.

 

Which QB is the best if they can't be a running QB due to an injury as in torn Achilles or knee type injury. Loss of mobility.

 

They are both pretty talent at throwing it right now. Sounds like a copout but it really depends on what you want them to do. They are better at different things in the passing game, but what they are both really good at passing. A very simplistic way of saying it is that Daniels is better in structure (without legs) Drake is better out of structure (without legs).

 

Legs are a big portion of both guys games though honestly and it would hurt both a lot. Especially early. 

 

[DogofWar1]

1 minute ago, tmandoug1 said:

Question for the gurus about the QB selection.

 

Which QB is the best if they can't be a running QB due to an injury as in torn Achilles or knee type injury. Loss of mobility.

 

Ignoring Caleb, if that injury happens NOW probably McCarthy.

 

If it happens in 2-3 years, could be any of them but I'd say Drake with the slight edge, but by that point all 3 dudes should have had an opportunity to evolve their game.

 

If it happens in 5+ years then still a toss up because then they've REALLY had a long time to figure out how to fit their game into the NFL.

 

Daniels is indeed at a slight disadvantage but if he can do some of the things he doesn't do much of more and well, then he's mostly on par with the others.  If his game doesn't evolve, and he takes an injury then he will indeed be way below the others.

[SoCalSkins]

15 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Its a like on a tweet. I would bet we have spent a lot more time thinking about this than his agent did (which is probably a mistake on the agents part - but we all make them). Taken at face value at worst it says the agent is not a fan of the way we managed the visit schedule, many on here agree with that.

 

What does any of that have to do with us drafting or not drafting Daniels - close to zero IMO.

It was a like on a tweet aggressively calling out the group gathering and used an F bomb. Then it was followed up with a retweet and comment of a clip of Florio that was posted by a pretty unknown account you would likely only stumble across by searching for “Drake Maye Commanders” which I happened to do prior to the agent posting and landed on the same tweet from the unknown guy. 
 

The guy liked a tweet disparaging the Commanders. Then he retweeted with a comment a Florio clip disparaging the commanders while searching for “Drake Maye Commanders”.

 

It’s far more than nothing. It’s a declaration that Daniels is not Washington’s pick. My personal guess is that Maye’s camp dropped some news through an agent and word spread and Daniels’ agent wanted to do damage control. Alternatively, as many speculated he’s trying to play for another team. Regardless of which scenario, it’s over for Daniels being the pick. This was a nuclear level bomb his camp dropped, incinerating all bridges. It’s over. 

[Bantu]

The one thing that sort of gets lost in the 20 player "night out" thing is that it was NOT the only portion of the team visit as a lot of the narrative tries to suggest. In the example of the QBs, they met with coaches, front office, etc. during the day. I believe it was two the first day, then the night out w/everyone, then the other two QBs the next day. 

[skinny21]

2 minutes ago, redskinss said:

 

I'm pretty sure they're just suggesting that maye in 22 and 23 was considered number 2 of the 24 class.

It's not a calendar year thing it's a season thing and only until last year was over and the draft talk started ramping up did daniels catch up with him.

Oh I know, and that’s why I’ve refrained from bringing it up previously.  But there’s a pretty common word that fits far better… “seasons”.  And frankly, I tend to doubt Maye was crowned qb 2 after his first game or first few games of ‘22, so even “two full seasons” is a bit of a stretch.  It’s dumb though, I know, it just bugs me in terms of accurate communication.

(and this has nothing to do with how I feel about Maye or means I disagree with the thrust of the point)