The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[clskinsfan]

Watched Phil Simms break down Daniels earlier. Cant post the link right now. He liked everything about Daniels except his size and arm strength. Mentioned playing outside on the east coast.  Kind of the same things a lot of us have said. He did however say he does not see that being a deal breaker for Daniels being a top 5 pick. Because he does everything else so well. 

[Warhead36]

17 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

In fairness to '21, I don't think Mac Jones and Justin Fields are busts. Justin Fields is an elite athlete who produced 1 quality season in 3. Mac Jones has produced 1 quality season in 3. In both of their cases, their surrounding talent was garbage in 5 of 6 combined seasons overall (Mac Jones playmakers have always been dog ----, Fields improved a bit in '23 after being god awful in '21 and '22). Wilson is a bust, I think that's obvious, injury or no, Lance has been a bust, but Jones and Fields still carry legit draft capital for the purpose of trades, I think that's one of the ways you know they have value. Teams would trade a lot for Fields, and probably close to Howell level goodies for Mac. '21 was definitely weird as hell, all 5 have disappointed and none have hit big, but only 2 of the guys look like certfiable busts right now. It's kinda like '18 where Allen and Lamar hit, nobody could decide what Baker was (and they still can't), and Rosen and Darnold flamed out horribly. 

If your team is looking to replace you three years after drafting you in the 1st, you're a bust.

[The Consigliere]

1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

@The Consigliere I actually think the idea of a 1-year wonder is terrifying. But then you've got the Joe Burrows of the world that go from okay to solid to absolute superstar. Jayden Daniels sort of fits that mold too. But with Burrow, he was a premier recruit who had been tabbed pretty early on as a blue-chip talent. I can't remember if that was the case with Wilson or Trubisky, but that was certainly not the case with Lance.

 

Also re: Lance, he broke out as a r-FR. I remember, because JMU and NDSU were neck and neck #1 and #2 all year. And after Easton Stick left NDSU, I thought for sure JMU would have a crack at NDSU, and then Lance comes out of nowhere and just destroys FCS as a freshman. And I was in person in Frisco TX in Jan. 2020 when Lance led the Bison over JMU for the title, yet again. And that's when the narrative started to shift on Lance being a potential top pick eventually. But I thought FOR SURE that meant 2022 or 2023. I did not think it was possible for a r-SO from NDSU to be a top pick. And then COVID hit, he played 1 game, then entered the draft. If Lance's 2019 season happened in 2023, he would 100% be hitting the portal, going to Alabama or USC or Texas or Ohio State, play there for 1-2 years, and then be a Top 3 pick and probably have way more success. He just came out way too early, and part of the blame there has to be on COVID, because it robbed him of another season of play, even if against FCS talent. But even still, Lance was a one-year wonder from an FCS school with little HS pedigree. There is a bit of a trend there.

 

I go back to Brock Purdy. I forget what his rank was coming out of HS, but both he and Howell went into the 2021 season with expectations to be top picks, and then both completely fell off in their final year (and I think Purdy got benched at ISU at one point). But they both actually had some pedigree, and were not one-season wonders. And I think the success for landing a mid-round QB is in long-term college production. And the success in landing a top tier QB in the Top 3 is going with someone with both pedigree, experience, and big time production.

 

Caleb and Maye have the pedigree and the big season (albeit Maye's in 2022). Daniels has the experience and the big stats, can't remember if he had the pedigree. But I actually think all three QBs check the boxes enough. There's no Trubisky/Lance/Wilson in those 3 that I can identify. 

Thanks for the breakdown, I was just using college reference for lack of memory. 

 

Daniels was legit good in '22. I'm not gonna soft pedal what he did there. In '22 he was good after moving there from ASU, and then in '23 he was ridiculous. How much was him versus the WR's, I'm not sure, but he certainly produced with them. I didn't know squat about Purdy, I knew absolutely nothing which is weird because I track these guys for Dynasty, but I don't remember anything at all about him, but to be fair, I hated the '22 class and was never interested to begin with in anyone but Willis, Corral and Howell and my local UNR guy with bad knees and a big arm. 

 

I don't think any of them fail for quarterbacking reasons. I think Williams if he busts, it will be entirely based upon mental make up. I think if Daniels busts, it will be injury, if Maye busts, it will be more "just average guy" with big arm and doesn't improve his issues disease. All 3 guys are too talented to me to just flop in the Zach Wilson vein. They aren't b.s. prospects, they are all mega talented, it's basically mental make up or injuries that will cause them to fail, and in Maye's case, if he never fixes some technical flaws, the talent piece is 100% there. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

6 hours ago, mistertim said:

they're both Homo sapiens. 

How can you be sure?

[ThatNFLChick]

12 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Watched Phil Simms break down Daniels earlier. Cant post the link right now. He liked everything about Daniels except his size and arm strength. Mentioned playing outside on the east coast.  Kind of the same things a lot of us have said. He did however say he does not see that being a deal breaker for Daniels being a top 5 pick. Because he does everything else so well. 

 

So funny because I was just watching his breakdown on Drake Maye

 

 

 

[The Consigliere]

11 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

If your team is looking to replace you three years after drafting you in the 1st, you're a bust.

In the Bears case, thats because they landed the 1.01 via Bryce Young busting. If the Panthers take Stroud, they're stuck with Fields.

 

In terms of the Patriots? I don't know? Mac was straight garbage in '22 and '23 and his stock has cratered but there is hope. He was good as a rookie. But they are going QB for the same reason we are, they can. 

[illone]

14 minutes ago, WashingtonRedWolves said:

I sure hope our strategy isn’t to pray the others screw up around us…

 

 

Why cant that be part of the strategy?

 

Bait and switch could potentially net a windfall of assets...

 

Case in point:

 

We LOOOVE Jamarcus Russell 😂

 

All it takes is one dummy to believe it...

[CommanderInTheRye]

20 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Watched Phil Simms break down Daniels earlier. Cant post the link right now. He liked everything about Daniels except his size and arm strength. Mentioned playing outside on the east coast.  Kind of the same things a lot of us have said. He did however say he does not see that being a deal breaker for Daniels being a top 5 pick. Because he does everything else so well. 

 

 

Did a search and found this breakdown on Jayden Daniels by Phil Simms from earlier today.

 

Haven't watched it yet...

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 28 by CommanderInTheRye

[BayouBrave86]

1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

@The Consigliere I actually think the idea of a 1-year wonder is terrifying. But then you've got the Joe Burrows of the world that go from okay to solid to absolute superstar. Jayden Daniels sort of fits that mold too. But with Burrow, he was a premier recruit who had been tabbed pretty early on as a blue-chip talent. I can't remember if that was the case with Wilson or Trubisky, but that was certainly not the case with Lance.

er if he had the pedigree. But I actually think all three QBs check the boxes enough. There's no Trubisky/Lance/Wilson in those 3 that I can identify. 

Jayden was higher ranked coming out of HS than Burrow. He was the number 1 dual threat QB in that class. The potential has always been there.

 

Yeah Jayden had an amazing 2023 season but people sleep on his freshman season where he did a phenomenal job as well. Then they got hit with the COVID season and the following season ASU was probably the most toxic locker room in the country with Herm and everything going on in that program.  22 he came into a new system, learned the ropes while showing flashes and eventually learned to trust his receivers which is what was so frustrating in 22.

 

60% percent completion percentage with just under 3k yards , 17 TD's and just 2 Interceptions as a true freshman.

17 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

 

 

I don't think any of them fail for quarterbacking reasons. I think Williams if he busts, it will be entirely based upon mental make up. I think if Daniels busts, it will be injury, if Maye busts, it will be more "just average guy" with big arm and doesn't improve his issues disease. 

I think this is 100% spot on.

[CommanderInTheRye]

Phil Simms' breakdown on Big Drake...

 

 

 

Edited February 28 by CommanderInTheRye

[ThatNFLChick]

 

[skinsfan66]

52 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

In fairness to '21, I don't think Mac Jones and Justin Fields are busts. Justin Fields is an elite athlete who produced 1 quality season in 3. Mac Jones has produced 1 quality season in 3. In both of their cases, their surrounding talent was garbage in 5 of 6 combined seasons overall (Mac Jones playmakers have always been dog ----, Fields improved a bit in '23 after being god awful in '21 and '22). Wilson is a bust, I think that's obvious, injury or no, Lance has been a bust, but Jones and Fields still carry legit draft capital for the purpose of trades, I think that's one of the ways you know they have value. Teams would trade a lot for Fields, and probably close to Howell level goodies for Mac. '21 was definitely weird as hell, all 5 have disappointed and none have hit big, but only 2 of the guys look like certfiable busts right now. It's kinda like '18 where Allen and Lamar hit, nobody could decide what Baker was (and they still can't), and Rosen and Darnold flamed out horribly. 

Big Ben was taken 11 not 3. If mac and Justin are not busts why are they looking for or taking a new QB? RG3,? Baker? These are the best blue chippers out of 21 drafts? How many S.B.'s wins?  

[mistertim]

16 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

 

Of course he told them that. 

 

What did they expect? For him to divulge Washington's entire draft plan and board to them? That's what pretty much every single GM or HC who isn't a compete moron says at this point in the process.

[Skinsinparadise]

We went over this yesterday when the comments were made.

 

Normally especially before the combine, the GMs say look we are down to these players, they name them and say and all other options are closed.😎

 

Peters going wild with the nebulous anything can happen comment. 

Edited February 28 by Skinsinparadise

[mistertim]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

We went over this yesterday when the comments were made.

 

Normally especially before the combine, the GMs say look we are down to these players, they name them and say and all other options are closed.😎

 

Peters going wild with the nebulous anything can happen comment. 

 

He's completely breaching protocol and it's leaving a sour taste in my mouth. Everyone knows that NFL GMs are supposed to mail pictures of their big board out to the public and other teams before the draft. It blows my mind that he's ostensibly so well liked around the league with behavior like this.

[Rufus T Firefly]

27 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Of course he told them that. 

 

What did they expect? For him to divulge Washington's entire draft plan and board to them? That's what pretty much every single GM or HC who isn't a compete moron says at this point in the process.

Basically, if you don't walk into a car dealership and tell the salesman "I am going to buy THAT Range Rover, no matter what it takes" then you must not want a Range Rover. 

[88Comrade2000]

2 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

In fairness to '21, I don't think Mac Jones and Justin Fields are busts. Justin Fields is an elite athlete who produced 1 quality season in 3. Mac Jones has produced 1 quality season in 3. In both of their cases, their surrounding talent was garbage in 5 of 6 combined seasons overall (Mac Jones playmakers have always been dog ----, Fields improved a bit in '23 after being god awful in '21 and '22). Wilson is a bust, I think that's obvious, injury or no, Lance has been a bust, but Jones and Fields still carry legit draft capital for the purpose of trades, I think that's one of the ways you know they have value. Teams would trade a lot for Fields, and probably close to Howell level goodies for Mac. '21 was definitely weird as hell, all 5 have disappointed and none have hit big, but only 2 of the guys look like certfiable busts right now. It's kinda like '18 where Allen and Lamar hit, nobody could decide what Baker was (and they still can't), and Rosen and Darnold flamed out horribly. 

His next team will be disappointed in Fields, as he will cement his bust status. Mac Jones is done, no one is trading for him.

[HTTRDynasty]

Edit - whoops, didn't mean to triple post.

Edited February 29 by HTTRDynasty

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[HTTRDynasty]

My comp to Fields earlier in this thread was dismissed, but that is really who Daniels reminds me of most.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

Sorry missed the prior post on this.  But maybe this will assure @RWJ ?

Edited February 29 by Skinsinparadise

[ThatNFLChick]

16 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

My comp to Fields earlier in this thread was dismissed, but that is really who Daniels reminds me of most.

 

 

 

I don't think they're anything alike (Justin Fields had a bad, elongated release, an awkward throwing motion that was almost like a wind up and bad footwork along with being a super slow processor) but to each their own. 

Edited February 29 by ThatNFLChick

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

7 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

I don't think they're anything alike (Justin Fields had a bad, elongated release, an awkward throwing motion that was almost like a wind up and bad footwork along with being a super slow processor) but to each their own. 

 

Fields was also (in college) surprisingly inaccurate while throwing on the run.

[DogofWar1]

There was a breakdown for Maye where they broke down the field and his throws on the field and compared it to Justin Herbert, and I'd love to see that for Daniels.  How did he do on those 9% of passes?

 

Part of it I suspect is that he's got 2 elite outside receivers in Nabers and BTJr.  Between them they had 2600 combined yards of his 3800 yards.  Why even bother throwing to the middle when your WRs are ballers and running fades and posts on the outside.

[ThatNFLChick]

4 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

There was a breakdown for Maye where they broke down the field and his throws on the field and compared it to Justin Herbert, and I'd love to see that for Daniels.  How did he do on those 9% of passes?

 

Part of it I suspect is that he's got 2 elite outside receivers in Nabers and BTJr.  Between them they had 2600 combined yards of his 3800 yards.  Why even bother throwing to the middle when your WRs are ballers and running fades and posts on the outside.

 

You mean this?