The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[The Rook]

46 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I think it’s pretty easy. We need to upgrade the OL or the QB means squat. Does that mean you have to draft OL? Not necessarily. Though I don’t see a great path to upgrade without that but there are some opportunities.

 

My bigger issue with going QB is that I don’t believe in either of the two big prospects.

 

I’m most intrigued by Daniels upside. I think Rattler is an interesting mid round option that, if he develops, has really high upside but also a mediocre at best case of making that improvement.

 

So, I can’t argue that we have to keep Howell or have to draft OL. But I can argue that I think the OL FA options are meh, the QB draft options are iffy and the OL draft class is deep and solid. And therefore, I think improving the OL via draft is our biggest upgrade.

 

But who knows.

 

Good post Kdawg. Really agree.  I am a little concerned that if they wait until the second round to start buying the beef, all the bone-in rib-eyes will be gone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

[Warhead36]

34 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Pretty wacky this story.  Jets want to give the job back to Zach but Zach doesn't want it.  Talk about mentally soft.

 

 

 

Hes scared of facing our vaunted defense Kappa

[NoCalMike]

We all watched the 49ers thump the Eagles correct?  We all saw what a WCO should look like when you have the personnel to maximize it, yes?  The WRs on the 49ers were taking 10 yard passes, end around reverses, and screen passes to the house.  Not only do they run a WCO but they have the proper personnel to be productive in it.  Purdy throws a 7 yard out pass to Jennings and he tosses the Eagles DB aside then marches into the end zone, but the box score is going to read TD pass for Purdy, meanwhile Sam is running for his life almost every time he drops back and when he does fire off a pass it is unlikely our WRs are taking the pass anywhere beyond the point of the catch.  Deebo Samuel is the quintessential WCO prototype WR, the kind that isn't necessarily heralded in the draft, but the brains behind the build understand that for their offense he has the traits needed.  You don't see him making huge catches downfield like the premier WRs but what you do see is him catching the quick crosses, slants, and passes in the flat and then out-running every defender in sight.  What skills position players currently on this roster are doing things we see players in other WCO's doing?

 

At this point I am not even comfortable blaming EB either because he joined a team with personnel built for Scott Turner's offense.  It doesn't mean none of our players are useful, in fact quite the opposite I think BRob has shown me things this season I didn't realize he was capable of, so if EB is around beyond this season I think BRob could be an absolute stud in this kind of offense.

Edited December 5, 2023 by NoCalMike

[zCommander]

2 hours ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

That easy huh? Lol 

 

Yes it is. You can make it harder if you are like Ron and take the long path and then run out of time. 

 

1 hour ago, Conn said:

 

That is usually how it goes for us, so it’s a natural way to think about it. We’ve bottomed out only every 4-5 years and rarely when it would actually be good to do so.

Huh? We know he can go (likely) 4-13 with this current OL, why would it naturally follow that with an improved OL this is a deep playoff team? That’s an enormous leap. Even if you take for granted we’d automatically have a playoff caliber offense, this team currently has no defense. So yeah, likely that would lead to being a middle-of-the-road team. 8-9 maybe. 

 

That is how it went for us. Dan is no longer picking the QBs or telling you what to do with his pick from the previous year. But the top two QB are just prospects and I am not too high on them. Williams already thinks he is at the same level as Mahomes.No thank you to that attitude. Maye and Howell are pretty much equal but I take Howell since he has been in the NFL for two years and has real NFL experience one can build around. Get as many OL for him. Give Sam time to make the throws and the right decisions on his reads.

 

As to your second point you are looking at the win and lose record. Don't do that but look at each game individually and see where the weakens are that led to the lose. That can be fixed and make you competitive right away by getting the right players. For example, Wiley needs to go and so forth. Little changes that can have a bigger impact right away. Maybe I was a little zealous on deep playoff run next year but at least win a playoff game. 

 

As for the D, a better coached D next year can be at least in top 20s and if that was the case this year there is no doubt, even with our OL, we would have at least gotten to the wild-card dance. And yes, we still need to add to DL which can be done via draft and FA. 

[wit33]

Howell’s versatility as a dual-threat QB has been overlooked. Similar to Josh Allen’s early career usage, he could thrive in that role if given the chance. You can tell it’s in his DNA to seek contact and run the ball —wakes him up. Some OCs are limited by their approaches. Even Andy Reid utilized Alex Smith as a runner in crucial situations.

 

If Jayden Daniels is available and checks all the boxes, drafting him could instantly bolster your offensive line, potentially pushing it into the top 15, and elevate your run game to a top 10 level. Yup, sucker for the mobile QB with great intangibles.

 

 

[dyst]

I say this as a fan of Howell and knowing full well that our offensive line is not that good, and our WRs aren’t helping but many of Sam’s mistakes whether it’s sacks or INTs are his to own.

 

When talking about time to throw, people make it seem like it’s a large time gap between Sam and the best offensive lines. It’s probably more like this QB gets 2.9 seconds to throw while Sam only gets 2.5 seconds to throw (just throwing out random numbers).  
 

Yes it’s less but it’s not like Sam is only getting 2.5 while everyone else is getting 10 seconds to stand back there. He has to see the coverage, make adjustments pre-snap and then hit the hot man if time is running out.
 

I’m okay with running it back with him next year, he’s shown enough flashes but next year he would have to take a leap.

[zCommander]

15 minutes ago, dyst said:

I say this as a fan of Howell and knowing full well that our offensive line is not that good, and our WRs aren’t helping but many of Sam’s mistakes whether it’s sacks or INTs are his to own.

 

When talking about time to throw, people make it seem like it’s a large time gap between Sam and the best offensive lines. It’s probably more like this QB gets 2.9 seconds to throw while Sam only gets 2.5 seconds to throw (just throwing out random numbers).  
 

Yes it’s less but it’s not like Sam is only getting 2.5 while everyone else is getting 10 seconds to stand back there. He has to see the coverage, make adjustments pre-snap and then hit the hot man if time is running out.
 

I’m okay with running it back with him next year, he’s shown enough flashes but next year he would have to take a leap.

 

That pick 6 was 1.25 seconds. The fastest pick 6 in NFL history. You can thank Wiley for that one. Even when Howell gets rid of the ball that quick it is still a negative play. Fix the OL. Some QBs in the league at times even get 3+ seconds to throw. And when Sam has had the time he can throw further down the field and accurately. Sam has a strong arm, a weapon that needs to fully utilized.

 

Agree on next year. The whole team needs to take a leap as well. Harris doesn't like middle of the pack. 

[Going Commando]

9 hours ago, djpapeleta360 said:

This article just put me more in favor of keeping Howell and thinking how we won all those Super Bowls with 3 different qbs. It's the same philosophy the 49ers have going on now. Build a strong team and you can win with with Purdy or Garrapallo. We need to build around Howell.

 

Purdy ain't Garappalo.  That dude is doing the best Young Tom Brady impression since the original.  I remember it took the NFL world forever to accept that Brady was a great quarterback in his own right, and not just the steady product of a great situation and system. Basically took the first six years of his career before the epiphany set in.  It's not going to take that long with Purdy.

 

But no matter how talented a QB is, all QBs are products of their situation.  Franchise QBs are made more than found, and the biggest determinant in their career outcomes isn't who is playing on their OLs or who is catching their passes.  It's who is running their teams, and what those guys think about them.  QBs need rock solid commitment and belief from their organizations, and they need stability at the top--in the front office and the coaching staff--or else they will never thrive.  They need their coaches and GMs to see and accept their own careers as being wed to their QB's, or else the moment things get rough, the coaches and executives will start looking for ways out and everything will eventually fall apart.  And going from there, they all need to win and win early in order to establish stability and job security, because nothing else accomplishes that.

 

The best time for a QB and HC to form their crucial marriage is year one.  That is the scenario that gives both of them the maximum amount of time and runway to develop and learn on the job before they enter must win territory, especially valuable if the QB is a rookie prospect.

 

If you punt on QB to build a roster up for some future prospect, or because you want to audition the extant prospect in a new regime, if that prospect doesn't work out, all you've actually done is burned a critical year of rope for your regime.  That and wasted a year of the primes of all your good players.  And possibly passed over a better crop of prospects than the one you get to pick from next, which is what happened to Rivera here.  The rebuilding window doesn't start until you get your long term plan at QB in house.  If you delay the beginning of the process, then it is overwhelmingly likely you won't have enough time to see it through.

 

Back to the 9ers, they were obsessed with finding that long term answer at QB, and they actually struck out three times before lucking into Purdy.  First they tried to get Kirk and offered us the #2 overall pick for him in 2017 and we said no out of incompetence and spite.  So then they traded for Garappolo, and he actually was the guy for them until injuries made him too unreliable to bank on, and they traded three first round picks for Trey Lance.  They make the switch to Lance and the first thing he does is break his leg and miss his rookie year.  Then back to Garappolo before he gets hurt too.  Then they go to a Hail Mary third stringer from the last pick in the draft who, miracle of miracles, looks like the next Brady and basically saves their entire regime.  They weren't passively building a roster just to plug and play any old QB into the system and have it all work out in the end. They were ultra aggressive in pursuing the best QB they could get, and got lucky over and over again, wiping out the costs of all the times they struck out on QBs and high draft picks.

 

I have no interest in seeing us try and build as unconventionally and inefficiently as the 49ers did, nor rely as much on luck as they did.  I just want to see us do it the way almost everyone else who has acquired a young franchise QB via the draft over the past ten years has done it: get the best coach you can find, get him a high level QB prospect early in the draft before his first season, and marry their careers together from day one.

[88Comrade2000]

I think we will be drafting a qb next year. The only question is where and what for?

 

Will the qb be someone to replace Sam?

Will the qb be someone to compete for the job with Sam?

Will the qb just be a backup to Sam?

 

 

Where we draft a qb will tell you the answer. The higher we draft a qb, the expectation is for that qb to be the starter eventually if not right away.

 

 

Whatever the Gm and coach decides; I’m for it. 

[BrentMeisterGeneral]

Something I see banded around frequently is that Sam Howell is 'Kirk Cousins / Derek Carr' level. The disrespect to those two guys is wild, reality is Howell has not shown that level of talent yet, whether you think the O Line is to blame, or the WR's, or Bienemy, or anyone but Sam, he still hasn't shown that level yet.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

5 hours ago, dyst said:

When talking about time to throw, people make it seem like it’s a large time gap between Sam and the best offensive lines. It’s probably more like this QB gets 2.9 seconds to throw while Sam only gets 2.5 seconds to throw (just throwing out random numbers).  
 

Yes it’s less but it’s not like Sam is only getting 2.5 while everyone else is getting 10 seconds to stand back there. He has to see the coverage, make adjustments pre-snap and then hit the hot man if time is running out.

.4 seconds is an eternity.  Beyond that, even when there is time, something is always off - trash at the feet, arms in the throwing lane, interior lineman being pushed into his lap.  All those things happen in normal games, just not to the extent we’ve been seeing it happen here.

 

You are making a lot of assumptions about what Sam can and should be doing, as if he’s running an offense on Madden.  I actually wish it was as simple as it sounds, because there would be a plethora of bad tape out on Sam, making it easy to see he’s not going to be the guy.  I’m just not seeing all this stuff he’s allegedly missing.  What I generally see are receivers backs with a defender close, when he’s taking a sack or throwing it away - not hots and checkdowns that he should have hit.

[FootballZombie]

10 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

We have seen that here.

 

And Ron legit tried to sign the guy to a new deal.

Clown show

[DWinzit]

I can't wait to see Sam have an opportunity with a respectable OC and OL.

He has not experienced both in unison in years.

Given time just imagine how his decision making improves and allows him to throw down the field.

[Skinsinparadise]

6 hours ago, BrentMeisterGeneral said:

Something I see banded around frequently is that Sam Howell is 'Kirk Cousins / Derek Carr' level. The disrespect to those two guys is wild, reality is Howell has not shown that level of talent yet, whether you think the O Line is to blame, or the WR's, or Bienemy, or anyone but Sam, he still hasn't shown that level yet.

 

I think he's shown the talent.  But he hasn't consistently played as well as peak Kirk or Derek so I agree with the point from that perspective.

 

The reason why I use that analogy is both QBs are in that 2nd tier.  Kirk has been unusual is that he's been consistently there.  Derek fell off a cliff.  He's not a 2nd tier QB anymore. 

 

Has Howell cemented himself into that tier?  Of course not.

 

But I am sort of a dude in the middle of two different takes I notice on this thread.  If I follow them guys like @zCommander who if I recall said Howell is already better than Josh Allen and @RWJ think we got an elite QB on our hands. I am not there.

 

Then some have been critical of Howell, wondering if he's the guy period.  Granted that group of people has mostly quieted down.

 

My take is I think I've seen enough where I think Howell has a good chance to be in that 2nd tier QB grouping.  I am not saying he's there now.  But give him a supporting cast and a good play caller and I am projecting him there.  Tough for me to project Howell as he's in that potential elite category.  Not saying he can't be.  But my initial take is he's not potential elite.  Is he good enough for me?  Yes.  But I don't look at it like that squarely.  I look at the situation.

 

Then we got @Consigliere and @Going Commando with different points over the years involving QBs as to drafting them and timing. @Consigliere with seize the moment when you can get an elite QB and @Going Commando about teaming new regimes with new QBs.  I am closer there to @Consigliere's take.  Not every draft is the same.  Yes, you do have down drafts at that spot.  This in theory is looking to be a good one.   I am not as into the point about marrying a new QB to a new regime but I get the point.

 

I've debated @Going Commando about his point that franchise QBs are made more by the regime than anything else.  It's not that I don't think that's partly true.  But he typically comes off like its the main plot line.  To me its a subplot.  Brady is special because his intangibles are through the roof.  He has the mentaility and work ethic and drive to be special.  I've read 2 books about the Patriots and it dives deeply into that point.  Mac Jones for the same organization, doesn't have the mentality.  From what I've read Jones comes off hot headed and entitled.   But having said that as a subplot it matters to me.  It's just not the main driver IMO.

 

My point is I wouldn't be even thinking about the topic if we are picking 16 or so.  But at the spot we likely are picking, getting QB #3 in a QB rich draft isn't something that i am just ignoring.  I am not per se pouncing on it either but it's definitely something I am considering.

 

I don't know if Daniels has the build to take an NFL pounding.   But he's not somebody that I am just going to blow off as a possibility if he's at our pick.   His ceiling is higher than Sam IMO and would I consider it, heck yes.  And its not about a debate about who is the card carrying biggest fan of Howell.  I've earned my stripes on that front. I've battled for Sam all year plus.  And none of that has anything to do with me wavering on that.  it's a question of upside at that spot for me.   And of course I don't have the answer for it.  My position is I'd consider it versus blow if off or say hey lets think about it in 2025.

 

the points below are a bit hyperbole.  But in short this dude has had a monster season.

 

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[dyst]

9 hours ago, wit33 said:

if Jayden Daniels is available and checks all the boxes, drafting him could instantly bolster your offensive line, potentially pushing it into the top 15, and elevate your run game to a top 10 level. Yup, sucker for the mobile QB with great intangibles.

First time seeing his highlights. Impressive agility.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, wit33 said:

Howell’s versatility as a dual-threat QB has been overlooked. Similar to Josh Allen’s early career usage, he could thrive in that role if given the chance. You can tell it’s in his DNA to seek contact and run the ball —wakes him up. Some OCs are limited by their approaches. Even Andy Reid utilized Alex Smith as a runner in crucial situations.

 

If Jayden Daniels is available and checks all the boxes, drafting him could instantly bolster your offensive line, potentially pushing it into the top 15, and elevate your run game to a top 10 level. Yup, sucker for the mobile QB with great intangibles.

 

 

 

I agree that they should use Howell's legs more.  I like Howell and i've pushed him all year around.

 

To me the topic isn't as some make it, give Howell a supporting cast and lets give him a chance in 2025 and lets see what we got.   Or which person has Howell's back more.

 

If the point is about Howell in isolation, I've had Howell's back and still do, I think he's going to be a good QB.

 

To me the question is can a new GM gauge Howell's upside.    And apples to apples that with another QB in a QB rich draft and my mind on that front is focused on Daniels.

 

Like me, I know you like mobile QBs.  If you watch Daniels mobility, its special.  Some are conditioned to think that doesn't work in the NFL because of RG3.  But it has for Russell Wilson, Cam, Murray, Lamar.  He's in that type of class as a runner.  Not just a dude with some mobility but special mobility.  Does that mean he's the dude?  I don't know.  But in the new GM shoes, i'd spent at least some time on that player and consider the option versus shrugging it off. 

 

And yes i do think its relevant that if we do shrug it off we likely will see Daniels twice a week playing against us in the division.  Daboll likes to use his QBs as a running weapon.  If he's going to transform Jones as more of a weapon on the ground than jones has ever been, imagine with Daniels.  And again, the point isn't take a player you don't want so another team doesn't get them.  i am not a moron.  That's not my point.  My point is their evaluation will have more consequence than normally for that reason if the Giants pick right after us.  All indications are the Giants are going QB. 

[skinsfan66]

5 hours ago, BrentMeisterGeneral said:

Something I see banded around frequently is that Sam Howell is 'Kirk Cousins / Derek Carr' level. The disrespect to those two guys is wild, reality is Howell has not shown that level of talent yet, whether you think the O Line is to blame, or the WR's, or Bienemy, or anyone but Sam, he still hasn't shown that level yet.

I disagree, Howell has shown way better than Carr and glad we did not sign him overrated and overpaid. But agree he is not on Kirk's level at this moment, but is at the level of Kirk when he was here. So why make the mistake again? Why keep blaming the QB for everything again? Howell has enough talent if you build around him and not neglect the OL again. Draft another QB because you need another and nothing wrong with comp. Dual QB's are not the answer either to the OL. 

[KDawg]

One thing that I think people miss on their Daniels evals... That guy has a year and a half to throw.

 

WHich ideally, is what you'd make sure happens if you draft him.

 

Which goes back to my thoughts: If you want to draft Daniels, great. I don't think it's a great plan, but I get it. But you HAVE to make sure the OL is shored up or he's going to look very similar to Howell, except not as stout and probably more likely to get injured.

 

I also find the "Caleb Williams is the guy" crowd to be interesting. One of the knocks on Howell is his size... right?

 

Maye is the prototype of the group, but hasn't looked much different than Howell on film. Trade Howell for... a more asset excessive and taller Howell?

 

If the new group likes a guy... fine. But if the OL isn't fixed we're going down the same sink hole. 

[djpapeleta360]

7 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

Purdy ain't Garappalo.  That dude is doing the best Young Tom Brady impression since the original.  I remember it took the NFL world forever to accept that Brady was a great quarterback in his own right, and not just the steady product of a great situation and system. Basically took the first six years of his career before the epiphany set in.  It's not going to take that long with Purdy.

 

But no matter how talented a QB is, all QBs are products of their situation.  Franchise QBs are made more than found, and the biggest determinant in their career outcomes isn't who is playing on their OLs or who is catching their passes.  It's who is running their teams, and what those guys think about them.  QBs need rock solid commitment and belief from their organizations, and they need stability at the top--in the front office and the coaching staff--or else they will never thrive.  They need their coaches and GMs to see and accept their own careers as being wed to their QB's, or else the moment things get rough, the coaches and executives will start looking for ways out and everything will eventually fall apart.  And going from there, they all need to win and win early in order to establish stability and job security, because nothing else accomplishes that.

 

The best time for a QB and HC to form their crucial marriage is year one.  That is the scenario that gives both of them the maximum amount of time and runway to develop and learn on the job before they enter must win territory, especially valuable if the QB is a rookie prospect.

 

If you punt on QB to build a roster up for some future prospect, or because you want to audition the extant prospect in a new regime, if that prospect doesn't work out, all you've actually done is burned a critical year of rope for your regime.  That and wasted a year of the primes of all your good players.  And possibly passed over a better crop of prospects than the one you get to pick from next, which is what happened to Rivera here.  The rebuilding window doesn't start until you get your long term plan at QB in house.  If you delay the beginning of the process, then it is overwhelmingly likely you won't have enough time to see it through.

 

Back to the 9ers, they were obsessed with finding that long term answer at QB, and they actually struck out three times before lucking into Purdy.  First they tried to get Kirk and offered us the #2 overall pick for him in 2017 and we said no out of incompetence and spite.  So then they traded for Garappolo, and he actually was the guy for them until injuries made him too unreliable to bank on, and they traded three first round picks for Trey Lance.  They make the switch to Lance and the first thing he does is break his leg and miss his rookie year.  Then back to Garappolo before he gets hurt too.  Then they go to a Hail Mary third stringer from the last pick in the draft who, miracle of miracles, looks like the next Brady and basically saves their entire regime.  They weren't passively building a roster just to plug and play any old QB into the system and have it all work out in the end. They were ultra aggressive in pursuing the best QB they could get, and got lucky over and over again, wiping out the costs of all the times they struck out on QBs and high draft picks.

 

I have no interest in seeing us try and build as unconventionally and inefficiently as the 49ers did, nor rely as much on luck as they did.  I just want to see us do it the way almost everyone else who has acquired a young franchise QB via the draft over the past ten years has done it: get the best coach you can find, get him a high level QB prospect early in the draft before his first season, and marry their careers together from day one.

I agree to some extent but I think a new qb coming into a bad situation fails more than succeeds. This video here dug into that on how more often 1st round rookies failed when coming to bad teams compared to later first rounder going to good teams. 

 

[skinsfan66]

7 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

Purdy ain't Garappalo.  That dude is doing the best Young Tom Brady impression since the original.  I remember it took the NFL world forever to accept that Brady was a great quarterback in his own right, and not just the steady product of a great situation and system. Basically took the first six years of his career before the epiphany set in.  It's not going to take that long with Purdy.

 

But no matter how talented a QB is, all QBs are products of their situation.  Franchise QBs are made more than found, and the biggest determinant in their career outcomes isn't who is playing on their OLs or who is catching their passes.  It's who is running their teams, and what those guys think about them.  QBs need rock solid commitment and belief from their organizations, and they need stability at the top--in the front office and the coaching staff--or else they will never thrive.  They need their coaches and GMs to see and accept their own careers as being wed to their QB's, or else the moment things get rough, the coaches and executives will start looking for ways out and everything will eventually fall apart.  And going from there, they all need to win and win early in order to establish stability and job security, because nothing else accomplishes that.

 

The best time for a QB and HC to form their crucial marriage is year one.  That is the scenario that gives both of them the maximum amount of time and runway to develop and learn on the job before they enter must win territory, especially valuable if the QB is a rookie prospect.

 

If you punt on QB to build a roster up for some future prospect, or because you want to audition the extant prospect in a new regime, if that prospect doesn't work out, all you've actually done is burned a critical year of rope for your regime.  That and wasted a year of the primes of all your good players.  And possibly passed over a better crop of prospects than the one you get to pick from next, which is what happened to Rivera here.  The rebuilding window doesn't start until you get your long term plan at QB in house.  If you delay the beginning of the process, then it is overwhelmingly likely you won't have enough time to see it through.

 

Back to the 9ers, they were obsessed with finding that long term answer at QB, and they actually struck out three times before lucking into Purdy.  First they tried to get Kirk and offered us the #2 overall pick for him in 2017 and we said no out of incompetence and spite.  So then they traded for Garappolo, and he actually was the guy for them until injuries made him too unreliable to bank on, and they traded three first round picks for Trey Lance.  They make the switch to Lance and the first thing he does is break his leg and miss his rookie year.  Then back to Garappolo before he gets hurt too.  Then they go to a Hail Mary third stringer from the last pick in the draft who, miracle of miracles, looks like the next Brady and basically saves their entire regime.  They weren't passively building a roster just to plug and play any old QB into the system and have it all work out in the end. They were ultra aggressive in pursuing the best QB they could get, and got lucky over and over again, wiping out the costs of all the times they struck out on QBs and high draft picks.

 

I have no interest in seeing us try and build as unconventionally and inefficiently as the 49ers did, nor rely as much on luck as they did.  I just want to see us do it the way almost everyone else who has acquired a young franchise QB via the draft over the past ten years has done it: get the best coach you can find, get him a high level QB prospect early in the draft before his first season, and marry their careers together from day one.

 Agree we can bring up all the different ideas we want but this is going to come down to who The new owners pick to lead the team. Time, short cuts and that talk is just an excuse. They need to do their homework and chose the right Person to lead this team and stay out of the way. The 49ers traded for the best RB in the league, They have a all pro TE, top OL, Top WR and got lucky in the draft for Purdy who has everything needed to be great.

[BrentMeisterGeneral]

46 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

I disagree, Howell has shown way better than Carr and glad we did not sign him overrated and overpaid. But agree he is not on Kirk's level at this moment, but is at the level of Kirk when he was here. So why make the mistake again? Why keep blaming the QB for everything again? Howell has enough talent if you build around him and not neglect the OL again. Draft another QB because you need another and nothing wrong with comp. Dual QB's are not the answer either to the OL. 

 

SF66, right now I'd be hard pressed to defend Carr but based on Carr's NFL career Sam has a long way to go to stay alongside him.

 

Thing is if you isolate the situation we find ourselves in down to just our need then of course I'd 100% agree that offensive line is the biggest need we have, but when you look at the situation as a whole, Washington being in the top 5 of the draft the decision then becomes less about the biggest need and more about whether or not Jayden Daniels has a higher ceiling / better suitability to the new regime than Sam Howell.

 

We have an abundance of need to the point where we just simply aren't going to fix it all in one off season, and I don't expect us to, but if the new regime feel Daniels is the better player or will be then I'd be happy to strike now while we are in the position we are in rather than risk fading into mid draft obscurity with no chance of a QB in the future Ala the Ron years (on the whole)

Edited December 5, 2023 by BrentMeisterGeneral

[skinsfan66]

2 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

We have seen that here.

 

And Ron legit tried to sign the guy to a new deal.

Clown show

Who did we see here with Ron? I hope you are not comparing this to our Back Up QB who had to replace our 28mil bust who got the start against the Browns and got destroyed again.? And that deal would have been for a backup who did help win 5 games for the team. You can blame Ron for signing another wrong pick castoff.  Kind of misleading about Wilson too, he was removed from the starting lineup 3 times. There OL is not much if better than ours. Aaron was in fire drill mode his first 3/4 plays before he went down. Wilson has sucked but so has there OL.  

[Est.1974]

13 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

So, I can’t argue that we have to keep Howell or have to draft OL. But I can argue that I think the OL FA options are meh, the QB draft options are iffy and the OL draft class is deep and solid. And therefore, I think improving the OL via draft is our biggest upgrade.

Agree. FA really does look poor on the OL front. Unless a surprise cut or two happens.
 

We have to target multiple OL in the draft. I would add that I’m also not convinced picking OL with a top 5 pick is a given, or anywhere near best value. Probably why I favour a marginal trade back at the minute. Get OL in the 7-10 range and add an extra 2 and 4 say, now that is tempting.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[skinsfan66]

56 minutes ago, BrentMeisterGeneral said:

 

SF66, right now I'd be hard pressed to defend Carr but based on Carr's NFL career Sam has a long way to go to stay alongside him.

 

Thing is if you isolate the situation we find ourselves in down to just our need then of course I'd 100% agree that offensive line is the biggest need we have, but when you look at the situation as a whole, Washington being in the top 5 of the draft the decision them becomes less about the biggest need and more about whether or not Jayden Daniels has a higher ceiling / better suitability to the new regime than Sam Howell.

 

We have an abundance of need to the point where we just simply aren't going to fix it all in one off season, and I don't expect us to, but if the new regime feel Daniels is the better or will be then I'd be happy to strike now while we are in the position we are in rather than risk fading into mid draft obscurity with no chance of a QB in the future Ala the Ron years (on the whole)

Draft Jayden Daniels and I would be fine with it. Or whoever the Person in charge feels it makes the team better but make the right pick. No need to discredit Howell because Carr and Kirk would have been destroyed by this OL too this year. So glad we did not sign another castoff like Carr this last season. Kirk has Top WR's has had a dominate RB and way better OL these last few years and won nothing too.  At this stage Howell has been equal to Kirk who had a better OL at the time here.   

Edited December 5, 2023 by skinsfan66