The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, srtman04 said:

 

I'm curious if you thought Peyton Manning was elite during his rookie season?   Based on your logic then,  you'd given up on him and traded him to another team LOL.   

 

It’s an emotional response that has nothing to do with any of my posts. And you clearly don’t have any clue about my posting history here about Howell.

 

So let’s stop wasting each others time unless you really want to discuss the point I am actually making 

 

[srtman04]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It’s an emotional response that has nothing to do with any of my posts. And you clearly don’t have any clue about my posting history here about Howell.

 

So let’s stop wasting each others time unless you really want to discuss the point I am actually making 

 

 

Sounds like I've hit a nerve.  I do agree with you on one thing....the final decision will be up to the new GM/Coach structure.  Let's see where this ship goes.....

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, srtman04 said:

 

Sounds like I've hit a nerve.  I do agree with you on one thing....the final decision will be up to the new GM/Coach structure.  Let's see where this ship goes.....

 

You are the one who started taking the shots with that post where the intention was to ridicule, so the nerve was clearly yours.   I responded in the same spirit.   

 

My point is I don't mind debating people on any point, but when they aren't even debating my argument because either they aren't reading what I am saying or prefer to put up a strawman argument than what's the point of a discussion because its not a discussion at that point.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[srtman04]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

You are the one who started taking the shots, so the nerve was clearly yours.   I responded in the same spirit.   But that wasn't my point, your tone...

 

My point is I don't mind debating people on any point, but when they aren't even debating my argument because either they aren't reading what I am saying or prefer to put up a strawman argument than what's the point of a discussion because its not a discussion at that point.

 

Nah, I think there was just a misunderstanding.  No worries....we are shaping up for one hell of an offseason, that's for sure.   

[gbear]

"shaping up for one hell of an off season"  

 

I wish that wasn't the case in the middle of the season.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

1 hour ago, YouLikeThat said:

He does NOT have elite upside. He may have the ability of a player you can win with IF you have a top 3-5 OL 1 or 2 of the top 5 receivers in the league 1 of the top 5 running backs of the league and that may not be enough.

Oh come on now.

37 minutes ago, gbear said:

"shaping up for one hell of an off season"  

 

I wish that wasn't the case in the middle of the season.

What is the Latin for “shaping up for one hell of an off-season”? That should be our team motto.

[gbear]

Thing is, I remember when we were the "kings of the off season" and it wasn't a good thing.

 

Alas, I long for the days I also remember when we're riding high as kings of the actual season too.

Edited December 5, 2023 by gbear

[Warhead36]

I don't think Howell has elite upside. Doesn't mean he can't end up being elite but it's unlikely. That's not a knock on him, the vast majority of QBs don't end up becoming elite. Doesn't mean you can't win with them.

 

But if you have a chance at getting a guy you truly believe is elite, you have to go for it. An elite QB, a real star, is just a complete game changer. Look at what RG3 was for us in 2012. A national superstar. His jersey was the highest seller. We were hearing RG3 chants in DALLAS. The Redskins became a national brand on par with what we see now from the likes of the Cowboys, 49ers, Packers, Steelers etc. The entire trajectory of what your franchise can accomplish is elevated and your aspiration isn't just to be a solid playoff team but to have a chance at MULTIPLE rings. 

 

Its up to the new regime to determine if they have a shot at that guy. When you're picking high in the draft if you're not 100% set on your QB you have to get one. Lets not repeat the same mistake we made in 2020. 

[dunfer]

RG3 was the biggest mistake that weve probably made as a franchise. not a good example

 

Plus it was all Kyle anyway. Robert wouldve been like Haskins with any other oc

Edited December 5, 2023 by dunfer

[RWJ]

So, the new GM wants his own QB and the new HC is in agreement.  

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by RWJ

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, RWJ said:

So, the new GM wants he own QB and the new HC is in agreement.  

 

 

I've posted a bunch of articles about Suamataia, this reminds me I have to watch him.  Ditto Barton who Kiper sees as a center even though he played LT.

 

Stover I like if only he was faster though

28 minutes ago, dunfer said:

RG3 was the biggest mistake that weve probably made as a franchise. not a good example

 

Plus it was all Kyle anyway. Robert wouldve been like Haskins with any other oc

 

His story might have been different if it weren't for the injury and his stubborn personality.  Lesson there is know the intangibles of the QB.

 

I recall Sheehan and Loverro interviewing Baylor's coach about RG3, and they asked him if Rg3 was liked in the locker room and his response was well does it matter if he was liked?  Sheehan took that as no, that he wasn't liked.  That was the first red flag I recall but at the time I ignored it.

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've posted a bunch of articles about Suamataia, this reminds me I have to watch him.  Ditto Barton who Kiper sees as a center even though he played LT.

 

Stover I like if only he was faster though

I really believe that Barton will surprise.  Like him a lot and think he can play OT and OG which is a plus.  Also, Stover is still learning the TE position and to me, SIP I think he's the 2nd best TE if he is able to realize and reach his full potential.  That's just me on Stover though.  

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, RWJ said:

I really believe that Barton will surprise.  Like him a lot and think he can play OT and OG which is a plus.  Also, Stover is still learning the TE position and to me, SIP I think he's the 2nd best TE if he is able to realize and reach his full potential.  That's just me on Stover though.  

 

I've watched a bunch of TEs, I've posted on the draft thread he's my 2nd too.  Most draftnicks have Sanders as their number 2.  I don't love either player but Stover to me has the higher floor versus Sanders. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

For the people here that are convinced that Sam Howell is elite and either you see him as elite or you are out on him, no middle ground exists -- I am not playing along.  It's OK to think Sam's upside is good to very good without seeing him as elite.  I'd wage a guess that  i have to be at least top 5 here with pro Howell posting on this thread.  So no one is going to redefine me as a hater since I am far from it.

 

Having said that, I am going to get roasted for posting this tweet but what the hell   I like Matt Miller.  I used to subscribe to his draft site.   And no I am not saying take Daniels.  Saying again its OK to consider, it doesn't mean anyone is out on Howell.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

For the people here that are convinced that Sam Howell is elite and either you see him as elite or you are out on him, no middle ground exists -- I am not playing along.

I’ve not seen anyone say that.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I’ve not seen anyone say that.

There are people here who have argued including today on this thread about Sam has elite talent.

 

I’ve said like 10,000 times or so on this thread that I think Howell is likely a good QB including mentioning it today and have  defended him versus some of his critics all season long yet I’ve been hit for not being a Howell guy. 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

I keep seeing people say, “if you have a chance to get a QB with elite upside you do it…”

 

Okay. So who? And why?

 

It’s easy to say Caleb Williams or Drake Maye. But WHY do you think they have elite upside. What part of their game makes you think they can be that guy? What of their physical skill set?

 

I think a good portion of folks are saying they have elite upside just because the media has been saying it…

 

Though there are absolutely arguments for both that make sense based on what they do…

[Skinsinparadise]

Catching up wit Keim on Sheehan. If I recall @HigSkinalresdy talked about this some 

 

A. Expects GM to hire the coach but it could be somewhat of a package deal 

 

B. New GM will decide about the QB which is different than the past where Dan was involved 

 

C. No upside to fire Ron this season people knew theu gave Ron their word he’d have the season. Wouldn’t be a goo look to break his word. Ron is liked around the league. 
 

D. Keim talked to an agent who represents a prospective who told Keim he’d hold against Harris if he fired Rivera and broke his word

 

E. He wagers Bieniemy isn’t back 

 

F. Asked Keim whether he’d consider a QB at 4, he said yes.   But as a college football fan Keim wasn’t sure if he’d take one. He said Jayden would interest him but he doesn’t know enough about him, referenced also building around Howell 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I keep seeing people say, “if you have a chance to get a QB with elite upside you do it…”

 

Okay. So who? And why?

 

It’s easy to say Caleb Williams or Drake Maye. But WHY do you think they have elite upside. What part of their game makes you think they can be that guy? What of their physical skill set?

 

I think a good portion of folks are saying they have elite upside just because the media has been saying it…

 

Though there are absolutely arguments for both that make sense based on what they do…

I agree Caleb and Maye aren’t in play. 
 

For me it’s purely about Jayden and I haven’t given my answer yet. I’ve watched 2 games. I think I need the weekend to watch 3 more and then I’ll say one way or another.

 

you know my takes on college players are based on my own observations not the media.

 

Based on the first 2 games I’ve watched I don’t know, yet.  But I’ve seen enough too in my mind to know that taking Jayden isn’t a ridiculous, it’s not worth thinking about decision.

 

The hard thing with Jayden on first watch is the most obvious concern which is his build. I’d want him to pack on at least 15 pounds for the combine otherwise am likely out 

Edited December 6, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[KDawg]

27 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I agree Caleb and Maye aren’t in play. 
 

For me it’s purely about Jayden and I haven’t given my answer yet. I’ve watched 2 games. I think I need the weekend to watch 3 more and then I’ll say one way or another.

 

you know my takes on college players are based on my own observations not the media.

 

Based on the first 2 games I’ve watched I don’t know, yet.  But I’ve seen enough too in my mind to know that taking Jayden isn’t a ridiculous, it’s not worth thinking about decision.

 

The hard thing with Jayden on first watch is the most obvious concern which is his build. I’d want him to pack on at least 15 pounds for the combine otherwise am likely out 

Im more talking about the people who keep saying there are elite prospects in this class and next years class won’t be good. Where are they getting this info? 
 

That is a media driven narrative 100%. This class has potential to be good, for sure, but it’s not the generational crazy talent level class people have thought. And how do we have any idea what next year’s class is? 
 

As far as your take, Daniels build is a major question… though he’s not small. He’s still 205… but he’s a lanky 205. My concerns with him are entirely based on how much time he has in the pocket. He could take a nap in the pocket… I do like him. Just not top 10 like… and I think that’s where he’s going.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I find it hard to believe that both Terry and Jahan are all the sudden terrible overnight.

[kingdaddy]

7 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I won't lie a combo of Ben Johnson and Jaden Daniels would be exciting at the very least.

This is an interesting scenario....for those that want to completely rid the franchise of all things Snyder that would mean moving on from Sam/RR/Bienemy and going with totally new faces in key places. Question: If we pick in the top 3-4 and one of the top QB's falls to us, what if someone like Atlanta or Pittsburgh offered a high 2nd round pick for Howell, would you take that? I would. 

We would then go QB, OT, OT, and still have a 2nd and two thirds left. Talk about a re-brand? 

Could Sam get us a high 2nd round pick? Again, these are decisions for the next guy to make but everything should be on the table. 

[PeterMP]

13 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I find it hard to believe that both Terry and Jahan are all the sudden terrible overnight.

 

They weren't very good last (as shown in the tweet).  Neither were in the top 70 last year either.

 

 

[Llevron]

4 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

They weren't very good last (as shown in the tweet).  Neither were in the top 70 last year either.

 

 

 

That’s surprising honestly. I thought both of those guys were good because of their route running not in spite of it.