The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[RandyHolt]

I think this tweet is bunk...  The blue print on how to disrupt an offense has been pressure for close to 4 decades now.  Its like a big secret or something.

 

It's why you will hear my clamoring for our defense to PRESSURE BLITZ to start games using all the studs we have been accumulating on defense. It's aggravating to see a DC play it straight to start games almost like they want to see lots of plays to figure out the OCs next move. Instead their D gets gassed/gashed/demoralized, the crowd deflated, their OC throws a curve ball on their 2nd drive anyways and we are losing 10-0 while letting the offense dictate to our D in read mode. All versus dictating TO the offense for once. Try for a ****ing shutout. Howell is getting swarmed yet we let Allen have 5 blocking 4 picking us apart. If our front 4 get pressure he scrambles and the field is empty.

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Warhead36]

Teams don't even blitz us though. They're generating pressure with 4. Heck even sometimes with only 3.

 

And its not some novel concept. The key to beat any offense is pressure.

[RandyHolt]

All teams blitz. A deeper discussion requires when does a team blitz. How many blitzers are there. Is it a predictable blitz? Is it a delayed blitz?

 

That all aside a team like ours crap OL green horn QB and a defense locked and LOADED with studs... maybe that defense needs to blitz more often. A lot more often.

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, RandyHolt said:

All teams blitz. A deeper discussion requires when does a team blitz. How many blitzers are there. Is it a predictable blitz? Is it a delayed blitz?

 

That all aside a team like ours crap OL green horn QB and a defense locked and LOADED with studs... maybe that defense needs to blitz more often. A lot more often.

I'm okay with us not blitzing. The front four generally gets there quite often. And our blitzes usually don't get there. Blitzing is a skill and our back seven guys aren't very good at it. They either get there too slow or just cause a traffic jam in the middle allowing for easy OL blocking.

[Koolblue13]

Teams have been rushing 4 against us and using coverage to slow Sam down. Our OL isn't good enough to buy him any time to check his reads and the way to stop that is run the ball and make them come up to the line.

 

I'm willing to bet that the Eagles go all out against the pass this week and attack us, knowing that they'll have success and EB won't do anything to stop them. Again.

[RandyHolt]

If team A is crushing our QB, we need to crush their QB. Sure we may need to bring more folks than team A but one QB heavily under duress but not the other? That decides games. Our front four failed to get a sack. JDR never adjusted aka rolled the dice on 3 and outs / forced turnovers. One complaint about any JDR blitz in his 1 LB scheme - that DB he may finally bring? He will often fail to tackle the modern day thik QBs - flying in at 25MPH being flung away like a fly.

 

NFL Blitz stats are sorely lacking. Its so simple anyone could watch a game and track it if they tried; how many success fail etc. Anyone got PFF data hook me up.  Searching for blitz rates I did find this blurb on our D.

 

Quote

It’s safe to say the Washington Commanders’ defense is off to another slow start. In the last two games, Jack Del Rio’s group has allowed 785 total yards, with nearly 300 coming on the ground. With how this unit has performed as of late, we anticipate the Philadephia Eagles approaching 30 points in Week 4.

 

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

4 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Teams don't even blitz us though. They're generating pressure with 4. Heck even sometimes with only 3.

 

And its not some novel concept. The key to beat any offense is pressure.

 

 

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

I love Sam and hope nothing but the best for him and us. 
 

But, For all the talk of our very porous oline and the number of rushers sent by the Buffalo D, I heard a stat on a radio show that Sam held the ball at least 4 seconds for every one of his sacks.
 

Can anyone corroborate that? Is that true?

 

 

 

[The Consigliere]

So who are the most guilty OL here and which guys can be coached up and which suck and are hopeless? I'm hoping they find a way to trade for help, which I mentioned last week as being priority #1 before the deadline. 

 

Which guys do you think have developmental prospects?

 

Which guys are good enough to stick with?

 

Who needs replacing immediately?

[Warhead36]

A QB's development isn't linear, its a roller coaster. He'll have ups and he'll have downs. I don't think we should make definitive statements about Howell one way or another until the end of the season.

[The Consigliere]

49 minutes ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

I love Sam and hope nothing but the best for him and us. 
 

But, For all the talk of our very porous oline and the number of rushers sent by the Buffalo D, I heard a stat on a radio show that Sam held the ball at least 4 seconds for every one of his sacks.
 

Can anyone corroborate that? Is that true?

 

 

 

 

I can't corroborate anything, but that video of the PFF guys evaluating hm last week posted a few pages ago mentioned that he's 100% to blame for some of it, that he's taking too many "time" sacks where he isn't getting rid of the ball early enough. I have no idea, I'm out west and can't watch all the plays. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

50 minutes ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

I love Sam and hope nothing but the best for him and us. 
 

But, For all the talk of our very porous oline and the number of rushers sent by the Buffalo D, I heard a stat on a radio show that Sam held the ball at least 4 seconds for every one of his sacks.
 

Can anyone corroborate that? Is that true?

 

 

 

I find this stat hard to believe.  Also a few of them he had bailed and still got sacked.

 

He does hold the ball too long.  But I haven’t yet seen much proof that quick throws are available and he’s missing them.  Everything feels slow developing, even the few times we run.

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, The Consigliere said:

So who are the most guilty OL here and which guys can be coached up and which suck and are hopeless? I'm hoping they find a way to trade for help, which I mentioned last week as being priority #1 before the deadline. 

 

Which guys do you think have developmental prospects?

 

Which guys are good enough to stick with?

 

Who needs replacing immediately?

Here's my evaluation:

 

Leno-Not too down on him. He's had some bad moments, but I think he's kinda just okay. Won't get you killed, but don't expect him to block elite guys 1 on 1 either. Basically mostly holds his own.

 

Charles-Apparently has played well and grades high. I don't know, I haven't really noticed him one way or another so I guess that's a good thing.

 

Gates-Feels like the middle gets pushed back too much and since Charles and Cosmi both appear to be at least decent, it must be on him. I think he's our 2nd worst lineman after Wylie and we should consider pushing Stromberg to be the starter or at least get more reps.

 

Cosmi-Solid to good player, albeit inconsistent at times. Has problems staying healthy. Someone mentioned maybe moving him to RT just so we can get Wylie out of that spot, which is something to consider, but I'd rather just at least have one lineman who's really good at his position.

 

Wylie-Dog doo doo. Needs to either move to the inside or be benched.

 

Paul-Was supposedly developing well in preseason. Would like to see him play more. Perhaps move him to G and move Cosmi to RT but that might be too much disruption.

 

Stromberg-See the part about Gates. I'd like to see him push for more reps.

 

Lucas-Has been a decent RT the last few years. Would like to see him replace Wylie.

 

[skins island connection]

Well I may as well go ahead and say it.

I'm not really sold on Bienemy as some great OC.  While I was glad to see the sorry ass Scott Turner finally get the boot, I have to keep a tempered level of optimism on EB.

After all his history is mostly as RB coach, and his time in KC as OC he had a luxury of a great talented young QB in Mahomes, which gave him a much better and more creative playbook to work with. Now I hope that he can turn things around but he HAD to have known going into the offseason that the line was blowing dog and should have made it a bigger issue to RR.

 

It also helps alot when you have a good DC who can make things a little easier for the offense, but we all know that Del Taco isn't qualified for this position. A defense who can get turnovers and an OC who can draw up quick strikes for TDs to capitalize on the turnovers; we have neither...

[Stone Cold]

When the game slows down, and it will for Sam with reps, his recognition and internal clock will be quicker.  These are the ebbs and flows of a young QB.  There’s no substitute for real game reps.  He’s gonna take lumps.  
That said, there are things we can do schematically to minimize his and the OLs shortcomings.  A quick, horizontal passing game with a more traditional run/pass ratio should be our recipe.  If EB wants to get vertical, that luxury has to be setup with quicker passes and a strong run game.  

we can’t afford to be a 70/30 pass offense.  That’s not our recipe for success right now.
Sams still a dawg.  He’s still got IT.  I have faith that his development will continue to trend upward when we look back on this season.  

[KDawg]

3 hours ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

I love Sam and hope nothing but the best for him and us. 
 

But, For all the talk of our very porous oline and the number of rushers sent by the Buffalo D, I heard a stat on a radio show that Sam held the ball at least 4 seconds for every one of his sacks.
 

Can anyone corroborate that? Is that true?

 

 

 

No that’s absolutely not true. 

[DWinzit]

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

 

Gates-Feels like the middle gets pushed back too much and since Charles and Cosmi both appear to be at least decent, it must be on him. I think he's our 2nd worst lineman after Wylie and we should consider pushing Stromberg to be the starter or at least get more reps.

 

Wylie-Dog doo doo. Needs to either move to the inside or be benched.

 

Lucas-Has been a decent RT the last few years. Would like to see him replace Wylie.

 

Your Gates take is one of toughest I've seen. If he indeed is playing as poorly as you have posted, then Stromberg (or even Larsen) should begin seeing time.

Damn that would mean our two worse are the two the coaches brought in to "fix" the line. Ugh

 

There is definitely a good argument for Lucas being given a chance at RT!

[Renegade7]

4 hours ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

I love Sam and hope nothing but the best for him and us. 
 

But, For all the talk of our very porous oline and the number of rushers sent by the Buffalo D, I heard a stat on a radio show that Sam held the ball at least 4 seconds for every one of his sacks.
 

Can anyone corroborate that? Is that true?

 

Bills players said they saw he typically holds for 3, which is bad for us when they also believe they can get there in 2.5.

[Daniel.redskins]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Bills players said they saw he typically holds for 3, which is bad for us when they also believe they can get there in 2.5.

3 seconds isn't bad.  One of my things now is counting seconds for good QBs.  Allen and Mahomes feel about 3 seconds to me.  Looking at pff stats isn't giving the full picture, because screens will lower the average. 

 

Problem is Howell isn't even getting 3 seconds.  One more bad game for the o line, I expect changes.  Bench Wylie for Lucas.  Gates for Larson. 

[FootballZombie]

59 minutes ago, Daniel.redskins said:

3 seconds isn't bad.  One of my things now is counting seconds for good QBs.  Allen and Mahomes feel about 3 seconds to me.  Looking at pff stats isn't giving the full picture, because screens will lower the average. 

 

Problem is Howell isn't even getting 3 seconds.  One more bad game for the o line, I expect changes.  Bench Wylie for Lucas.  Gates for Larson. 

 

Can't do that. Different ecosystems allow different things.

 

 

Some QBs like Mahomie, Allen or Jackson are uber-elite at extending the play and can turn 3 seconds into 5. They don't have to care too much about getting the ball out ASAP.

Some QBs like Burrow and Hurts get like 5 seconds behind their O-line b/c their lines are very good. They don't have the need to get the ball out in 3 seconds.

 

If Sam holds the ball for 3 seconds, its probably a sack, which is part of the reason Sam is on pace to get sacked more than any QB ever.... like ever ever

 

 

Unless Howell starts flashing the elite level ability to extend a play, holding the ball for 3 seconds behind this O-line is a sure fire way to lead the league in sacks.

Ball has gotta come out, even if you have to throw it away.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

After giving it much thought, I know exactly what Sam needs.

 

A trade for Kyle Pitts.  He’s rendered useless in their system that brings a tear to Bill Callahans eye.  

[skins island connection]

 3 seconds can be an eternity, for some QBs.

Howell is young, and my hopes is that he learns to develop his pocket presence/movement in the pocket, whether left/right or backwards/forwards, but that little bit of movement, even with this horrendous o-line, can be more than enough to properly and accurately execute plays, if thats whats called.

EB has to know that these plays called that take so much time to develop cannot work right now, unless its quick slant-type plays or bootlegs to get him out in the open a little, maybe even give him a little better vision of the field. 

Every, EVERY opponent from now on knows that rushing the QB is priority 1 and have CBs glued to the WRs = success, and these next few weeks will tell us alot about EB's adjustment abilities or liabilities...

[Conn]

9 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

After giving it much thought, I know exactly what Sam needs.

 

A trade for Kyle Pitts.  He’s rendered useless in their system that brings a tear to Bill Callahans eye.  

People got mad at me before this past game for arguing that Pitts (with multiple years left on his rookie contract) would be worth more to this team and Howell’s future than the remaining 14 games of Young. 
 

A totally made up deal that someone else proposed to start the argument, and we’d still be doomed this year. But man would it set us up for the next regime. 

[Warhead36]

11 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

After giving it much thought, I know exactly what Sam needs.

 

A trade for Kyle Pitts.  He’s rendered useless in their system that brings a tear to Bill Callahans eye.  

He's a bum. "Generational talent" my butt.

 

I'm totally not a disgruntled fantasy football owner. Nope not at all. /s

[NoCalMike]

I am not sure if EB/Ron trust Sam so much that they are throwing him out there expecting to work magic already, but if you ask me, when these defenses are rushing 4 and dropping 7 into coverage, we should be running the ball.  I feel like EB is reminding me of Kyle Shanahan early in his career where he would get some kind of rhythm going and the offense was driving and then for no logical reason decide it was a good time to go away from what's working.

 

Howell isn't going to shoulder this offense in 2023.  Yes, he will (should) look better in December than he does now at processing and getting through his reads, throwing the ball away, taking off out of the pocket when needed, but for now, he is in his 5th start and these defenses are damn near conceding the running game if we would just take them up on their willingness to let us do it.  The way defenses are being called against us, they are anticipating a heavy skew towards the pass and we are giving them exactly what they want.