The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[bowhunter]

My fear with Wentz (to date) is that he does in fact have a tendency to be consistently inconsistent. While true that everyone at every position has ups and downs, they get amplified at the QB position. So if you have a QB that is great for 3 games and then sucks for 3 games wash, rinse, repeat. it can frustrate even the most even keeled coach. A change of scenery has yet to change Carsons history. I'm fine with Howell for a 3 game stretch and then re-evaluate. SH has shown game when he had some WRs, and became a pretty damn running QB last year when he didn't. Probably a better choice that behind that Oline than Carson for now.

[BraveWarrior]

I just shook my head when they traded for Wentz, but as the season drew near, I was hopeful he'd regain some of what he had in his good seasons with the Eagles. I also thought he's a much better guy than Indy was trying to get people to believe. But his inconsistency is hard to watch. HIs lack of mobility hurts him, and makes the line look even worse because he can't get away if he holds the ball longer than the line can help protect him (which is often). 

 

If they lose to the Bears and Wentz looks really bad, I'd be okay with a switch to Howell. For those who say "oh, if he plays too soon he'll be ruined." Well, so be it. If he's not mentally tough enough to get thrown into the fire, then we don't want him anyway, and they'll know they still need to find a QB next season. 

[Wyvern]

All QBs need time to really get familiar enough with a new playbook to have quick command of the system and the instinctive muscle memory needed to master their role within it.

 

In addition to learning Turner's system, another challenge for Wentz was developing a sense of his teammates' tendencies in order to better coordinate with them on how to be effective in the passing game. 

 

But Wentz building that level of rapport was hampered by different kinds of holdouts; such as, contracts, slow recovery of the primary starters from their injuries, and by all  the varous new substitutions to the starters caused by new injuries, etc,  Not only the WRs and TEs, even the running backs and offensive line were changing from week to week  -- especially the interior line.  And after Roulier went down, Wentz had to also call the O-Line adjustments since the newly acquired center hasn't learned them yet.  

 

That's a lot for anyone to pick up -- especially when they were still new to the system.  Then try remember all that, while trying to run the offense while facing huge amounts of defensive pressure due to  Washington's porous pass protection, anemic running attack,, and a defense that couldn't prevent opponents from building large leads that forced Wentz into "catch-up"mode and having to work out of the shotgun schemes where defenders could pin their ears back and blitz away.

 

Bottom line: Wentz is getting more familiar with what he needs to do for his role in the offense, but his supporting cast needs to be better, if the team is to see better results, resulting in more "W"s.

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Wyvern

[BraveWarrior]

1 hour ago, Jumbo said:

 

Just a fan. You joined this site in Nov. 2021. It's not just the timing, you say on your member page that you've been a fan of this team for a year. And you noted your favorite player was Taylor Heinie. So....🙂

 

I think this fuller disclosure for readers is worthwhile given some of the recurring themes in this long thread, i.e. the ongoing Taylor H. stuff.

@skinny21

Maybe this guy is for real with the Heine love. I can't believe the amount of people on FB Redskins/Commodes pages who have been calling for Heine to come into these games. 

[NoCalMike]

Everyone also has to realize that Wentz isn't likely getting benched for any other reason then the coaches getting together with the front office behind the scenes and agreeing to turn the page on him as far as his future here goes (meaning there isn't one).  I know everyone is considering the 2nd round pick ramifications, but if they deem Wentz one of the pieces to the puzzle, they will part with the 2nd round pick.  There is no way they are going to temporarily bench him just for that reason.  

 

Also keep in mind that the team isn't going to better with TH in there, nor likely Howell either.  If either of them play extended time, will it provide some excitement and a temporary spark? Sure, possibly...because they can do things Wentz can't, but Rivera has made it pretty clear that they aren't interested in 2022 being a year of evaluation. They went out and got Wentz with the intention of him being the QB going forward.  Maybe they end up proven wrong by the end of the season and move on, and it costs them the better draft pick, but they pretty much signed up for that scenario once the trade was made.

We don't have to like it, might downright disagree with it, but that is likely just how it is. 

[FLSkinz83]

I just listened to the Rivera comment again and I'm sorry, but that's a terrible job by Ron.   He says "Quarterback" right away and adds no context until there are follow up questions.

 

He started stumblin and bumblin once he realized the mess he created.

 

 

[757SeanTaylor21]

The fact of the matter is we can't block for crap and we expect offense to be lights out. The fact of the matter is our play caller can't call plays worth a crap and we expect Wentz to be lights out. The fact of the matter is the system as a whole for 3 years been trash and we expect our offense to be lights out. While we watch most other teams have great play designs or schemes. We for 3 years have had multiple receivers running close by each other. O line cant block for 2 seconds. Norwell had got to be replaced immediately and I see why he was let go from panthers and jags and that was a multi year contract. 

[Jumbo]

2 hours ago, BraveWarrior said:

Maybe this guy is for real with the Heine love. (edit quote)

 

Not a lot gets by you! 😛

[Renegade7]

If I'm going to be asked to let go of addressing QB in 2020 because Haskins was already here...I still reserve the right go be angry Rivera had total control of the QB situation and went into 2021 with a 38 year old bridge to nowhere and two Carolina rejects as his QBs.  

 

Ron doesn't get a pass for his almost 40 QB getting hurt week 1, they rarely play that long, that was a much larger risk then even I wanted to admit until it jus happened just like that. 

 

But to not have a future franchise QB to develop after him is the ultimate failure, because that ended the season with no hope for the future based on what we're evaluating. The Taylor story was only a brief reprieve from this reality, even I was trying to convinced myself we weren't this f'd already two years in.

 

But now we get into why Wentz being the QB hurts the team building process so bad and proves Ron has no idea what he's doing.  Because if he didn't plan to draft a first round QB to develop, he needed to make sure he had enough cap space to trade for a veteran QB plus build around them.  Almost as soon as we traded for that contract we started letting people leave we shouldn't have and cutting people we already miss.

 

The NFL is showing this trend of what happens once the young franchise QB gets the extension how hard it is to build around them.  We skipped over the sweet spot of a successful rebuild were we could've had a solid franchise QB on a rookie contract.  Instead, we have the worst of all worlds in a large contract our cap space barely had room for to a QB we are having an honest conversation about whether they are future or not.

 

That's not how you build a team, not how you do a rebuild. Ron cannot blame the QB situation for his failures when he has full control over the QB situation.

[DJHJR86]

There's a slight possibility that Wentz won't play Thursday due to a shoulder injury.  Could get interesting.

[RandyHolt]

Ron clearly had high expectations on Carson and has been disappointed.  On his 3rd team in 3 years though - Ron needs to look in the mirror and admit he too has been terrible and set unreal expectations. He just seems like a pat on the back guy at this point and delegating everything and if true - he needs to do better at the podium unless he thinks that tearing down Carson is the only way to resurrect his career. Ron's desperate and if he truly thinks Carson is the problem he needs to bench him for the 2nd half thursday night.

Edited October 11, 2022 by RandyHolt

[skinzplay]

RR should be equally disappointed in the performance of his OC. The play-calling has been abysmal. 

[RandyHolt]

1 minute ago, skinzplay said:

RR should be equally disappointed in the performance of his OC. The play-calling has been abysmal. 

Agree. Turner seeking shelter up in the booth is telling.

[CobraCommander]

9 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

RR should be equally disappointed in the performance of his OC. The play-calling has been abysmal. 

Really outside of the first two drives of the season we have looked pedestrian when it comes to offensive play calling. This Turner offense reminds me of that 700 page coordinator we had. I can't remember his name but boy did that stink. 

8 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Agree. Turner seeking shelter up in the booth is telling.

Lol, did he run back upstairs last week?

[SpacePenguin]

43 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

RR should be equally disappointed in the performance of his OC. The play-calling has been abysmal. 

It's been terrible from day one, but according to some "getting guys open" is somehow in short supply in the NFL.

[zCommander]

36 minutes ago, CobraCommander said:

Really outside of the first two drives of the season we have looked pedestrian when it comes to offensive play calling. This Turner offense reminds me of that 700 page coordinator we had. I can't remember his name but boy did that stink. 

Lol, did he run back upstairs last week?

 

Al Saunders. I absolutely hated Gibbs did that after being in the playoffs and handcuffed his offence.

 

Yes he was back in the booth. Probably because he likes the birds eye view.

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by zCommander

[method man]

1 minute ago, zCommander said:

 

Al Saunders and yes he was back in the booth.

I think it was more on Campbell. When Collins came in, they were rolling

 

Cooley and others do say hiring Saunders was a mistake though

[CobraCommander]

10 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Al Saunders. I absolutely hated Gibbs did that after being in the playoffs and handcuffed his offence.

 

Yes he was back in the booth. Probably because he likes the birds eye view.

 

I actually don't blame coordinators that want to be up in the booth so long as they have a field coach to be there and make sure the players are all on the same page.

[Warhead36]

The Al Saunders offense worked with Todd Collins. Scott Turner can't hold Saunders's jock strap.

[zCommander]

14 minutes ago, method man said:

I think it was more on Campbell. When Collins came in, they were rolling

 

Cooley and others do say hiring Saunders was a mistake though

 

Yes but Al's 700 page book didn't help. Collins had worked with Al before though. 

[NickyJ]

4 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

If I'm going to be asked to let go of addressing QB in 2020 because Haskins was already here...I still reserve the right go be angry Rivera had total control of the QB situation and went into 2021 with a 38 year old bridge to nowhere and two Carolina rejects as his QBs.  

 

Ron doesn't get a pass for his almost 40 QB getting hurt week 1, they rarely play that long, that was a much larger risk then even I wanted to admit until it jus happened just like that. 

 

But to not have a future franchise QB to develop after him is the ultimate failure, because that ended the season with no hope for the future based on what we're evaluating. The Taylor story was only a brief reprieve from this reality, even I was trying to convinced myself we weren't this f'd already two years in.

Who is the future franchise QB that Ron should have picked up to develop in 2021?

Edited October 11, 2022 by NickyJ

[Renegade7]

4 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

Who is the future franchise QB that Ron should have picked up to develop in 2021?

 

Does it really matter that I was practically begging this team to trade down in 2020 so we could trade up in 2021 if we didn't believe in drafting anyone except Burrow?

 

Rather have Zach Wilson then Wentz right now, who nows what kinda package we coulda put together if that was the plan.

 

If you want to argue there's nothing we could've done to prevent our current QB situation, that's fine, you and I aren't paid millions to figure it out, Ron is.

[method man]

7 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

Who is the future franchise QB that Ron should have picked up to develop in 2021?

T

Edited October 11, 2022 by method man

[jlevy08]

4 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

If I'm going to be asked to let go of addressing QB in 2020 because Haskins was already here...I still reserve the right go be angry Rivera had total control of the QB situation and went into 2021 with a 38 year old bridge to nowhere and two Carolina rejects as his QBs.  

 

Ron doesn't get a pass for his almost 40 QB getting hurt week 1, they rarely play that long, that was a much larger risk then even I wanted to admit until it jus happened just like that. 

 

But to not have a future franchise QB to develop after him is the ultimate failure, because that ended the season with no hope for the future based on what we're evaluating. The Taylor story was only a brief reprieve from this reality, even I was trying to convinced myself we weren't this f'd already two years in.

 

But now we get into why Wentz being the QB hurts the team building process so bad and proves Ron has no idea what he's doing.  Because if he didn't plan to draft a first round QB to develop, he needed to make sure he had enough cap space to trade for a veteran QB plus build around them.  Almost as soon as we traded for that contract we started letting people leave we shouldn't have and cutting people we already miss.

 

The NFL is showing this trend of what happens once the young franchise QB gets the extension how hard it is to build around them.  We skipped over the sweet spot of a successful rebuild were we could've had a solid franchise QB on a rookie contract.  Instead, we have the worst of all worlds in a large contract our cap space barely had room for to a QB we are having an honest conversation about whether they are future or not.

 

That's not how you build a team, not how you do a rebuild. Ron cannot blame the QB situation for his failures when he has full control over the QB situation.

This is 100% accurate.  RR and the front office are responsible for who is in the qb room right now.  
 

Every franchise’s #1 priority is finding that (young) long term qb.  WFT seems content to mill around with expensive veterans who would at best be a short term solution with a mediocre team anyway.  This team needs to have a real plan heading into next year’s qb rich draft, which has been highlighted by this year’s flop.

[RandyHolt]

Saunders finally purged his 800 page playbook in year 2 or 3.  How short sighted was that. 

 

But Campbell was so poorly used. Big long slow windup QB forced into being WCO QB. Expectations galore from trading up. And then having to deal with the Saunders bible and after school tutor lessons from Al's mini me Collins. Disaster of course which is par for the course for 3 decades.