The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, FootballZombie said:

 

I never guaranteed anything of note, I said they would have a good season

We got 7 wins with TH last year. Your adding to a team that was on the cusp of a winning season.

 

You add to that team, plus face a weaker schedule and whammo, that team has a good season. I guess that's blasphemy of some kind.

 

You said put any QB on that team and they have a good season. Fair enough you did not define  good season. So if it's just better than last year OK, but thgt seems a low bar. To each thier opnw. 

 

1 hour ago, FootballZombie said:

 

 

The team chose this direction of roster construction, the media just reported on it. Its not like the media made us sit out of FA proper, we did so ourselves.

 

Choosing to sit out FA and then blaming the media b/c we must not have wanted absolutely anybody of note? C'mon man.

There were players they wanted. They chose not to pursue them. Not hard to see why.

 

Making **** up again. First, they did not "sit out" FA. They signed specific people. Also, I never said they blamed te media for not signing more players. That took some keen mental gymnastics to get there. I said the media was on the narrative that somehow $28M was debilitating to roster development and i have said from the beginning that was bull****. The money if there if they wanted. SO clearly they did not want them, at least not at thier asking price. They unlike you have to consider the full impact of the contracts not jsut the one year in a vacuum. It had nothing to do with Carson's contract. 

 

 

1 hour ago, FootballZombie said:

 

 

 

Didn't realize it was false when I said he was had a top 10 cap hit this year. Or when I said he greatly impacted roster construction.  Or when I said a guy on an audition year is not exactly swimming in organizational faith.

 

I'd be cool if your the first guy to tell me I'm wrong when I say Wentz has baby hands and a noodle arm, but you contesting stuff that is true.

 

All I can do here is just laugh. SO much wrong there is no sense in addressing. 

 

1 hour ago, FootballZombie said:

 

 

And miss any shred of info about questionably human man-monster Kelley? I'll endure the delusion thank you very much

 

You complained about not being able to avoid the thread so I pointed out how. Then you say you don't want to miss anything. Like the rest hard you are kind of all over the place. 

 

Carry on lol.  Truly am done here. No reason to continue. Neither of us are changing our minds. We will see how the season goes. Can revisit this then.  

[FootballZombie]

4 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

Making **** up again. First, they did not "sit out" FA. They signed specific people. Also, I never said they blamed te media for not signing more players. That took some keen mental gymnastics to get there. I said the media was on the narrative that somehow $28M was debilitating to roster development and i have said from the beginning that was bull****. The money if there if they wanted. SO clearly they did not want them, at least not at thier asking price. They unlike you have to consider the full impact of the contracts not jsut the one year in a vacuum. It had nothing to do with Carson's contract

 

Carson's contract did impact our Free agency. Reporters have said it. Ron Rivera himself has said as much. Your choosing to ignore reality here.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/04/09/commanders-nfl-free-agency-ron-rivera/

 

6 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

All I can do here is just laugh.

 

Glad the baby hands joke went over well. Almost went with the crybaby direction, but I trusted my gut. I owe it a pizza.

 

7 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

You complained about not being able to avoid the thread so I pointed out how. Then you say you don't want to miss anything. Like the rest hard you are kind of all over the place.

 

I wouldn't miss stuff about probably-a-mutant Kelley if there was another Wentz centric thread. You couldn't have known that angle however so while your input was appreciated, it was suboptimal to solving the issue at hand.

 

 

 

Please know I'm not forcing you to respond, but if you want to keep presenting counterpoints I am more than happy to keep debating the topic.

[Skinsinparadise]

I already booked my flight to Indy, can't wait to this game.

 

I used to think I was one of the bigger Matt Ryan fans out there and certainty higher on him compared to most on this thread.  But apparently i am just medium on Ryan relatively speaking.  With the built up hype. I am expecting Ryan will be somewhat I gather a mix of Mahomes-Rodgers-Brady this season.  With where he's apparently headed, if Ryan just got the MVP it might not be enough to honor his prowess.   

 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[goskins10]

27 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I already booked my flight to Indy, can't wait to this game.

 

I used to think I was one of the bigger Matt Ryan fans out there and certainty higher on him compared to most on this thread.  But apparently i am just medium on Ryan relatively speaking.  With the built up hype. I am expecting Ryan will be somewhat I gather a mix of Mahomes-Rodgers-Brady this season.  With where he's apparently headed, if Ryan just got the MVP it might not be enough to honor his prowess.   

 

 

 

I am thinking about it. Will see how the games go.  Matt Ryan is 0-4 in games I attend including our win last year there.  Lol.  Maybe we can keep that streak going.  

[redskinss]

My biggest fear with Wentz is that he'll have a resurgent year, we'll give him a big extension and then he'll revert back to the guy who got kicked out of town the last two years.

Consistency has always been one of his biggest problems and even if he has a year close to what he had in 2017 I don't see him doing it year in and year out.

 

But if he has a good year this year we'll cross that (see if he can maintain it) bridge when we get to it.

 

For now it'd be nice just to have a professional level quarterback even for one year.

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

I am thinking about it. Will see how the games go.  Matt Ryan is 0-4 in games I attend including our win last year there.  Lol.  Maybe we can keep that streak going.  

 

I've been to Indy once, fun town, I try to do one out of town game a season.  I wanted to do Chicago or SF but neither fit my schedule. 

 

the only downside I see for this game is if they lose it would be painful considering all the context, conversely a win would be uber sweet.

 

My gut is Ryan does have a good season and I can buy he's revitalized in Indy but IMO they are getting way carried away with it -- Ryan has IMO a slam dunk Hall of Fame career.  He's had a better career IMO than some on this thread (not you considering your take seems similar to mine) believe he's had.  He's on another echelon above Alex Smith, McNabb, etc.  But the Colts are building him up like he's in the elite Brady top 5 class which does not reflect his career IMO albeit he has had 3 elite type seasons but they were more outlier seasons than the norm.

 

I think we can beat them but that one won't be easy on the road.  

 

Indy tradtionally has had a really good O line in recent years but they fell apart with injuries last year.  I like our depth better at O line than theirs.  I like our weapons better too. 

[goskins10]

7 minutes ago, redskinss said:

My biggest fear with Wentz is that he'll have a resurgent year, we'll give him a big extension and then he'll revert back to the guy who got kicked out of town the last two years.

Consistency has always been one of his biggest problems and even if he has a year close to what he had in 2017 I don't see him doing it year in and year out.

 

But if he has a good year this year we'll cross that (see if he can maintain it) bridge when we get to it.

 

For now it'd be nice just to have a professional level quarterback even for one year.

his Inconsistency has been more game to game or even play to play.  Hoping this staff can help him with that.  But it’s been a problem his entire career. 
 

I am still ok because if they fix the inconsistent he becomes a truly solid starter or better.  If not they just move on and look at next years draft.  It’s worth the cost and risk to me.  

[Warhead36]

8 minutes ago, redskinss said:

My biggest fear with Wentz is that he'll have a resurgent year, we'll give him a big extension and then he'll revert back to the guy who got kicked out of town the last two years.

Consistency has always been one of his biggest problems and even if he has a year close to what he had in 2017 I don't see him doing it year in and year out.

 

But if he has a good year this year we'll cross that (see if he can maintain it) bridge when we get to it.

 

For now it'd be nice just to have a professional level quarterback even for one year.

I doubt he'll return to 2017 form. That was league MVP caliber play and if he plays like that we're fighting for a top 3 seed in the NFC. 

 

If he's slightly better than last year that's still a damn good QB and well worthy of a long term deal.

[goskins10]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've been to Indy once, fun town, I try to do one out of town game a season.  I wanted to do Chicago or SF but neither fit my schedule. 

 

the only downside I see for this game is if they lose it would be painful considering all the context, conversely a win would be uber sweet.

 

My gut is Ryan does have a good season and I can buy he's revitalized in Indy but IMO they are getting way carried away with it -- Ryan has IMO a slam dunk Hall of Fame career.  He's had a better career IMO than some on this thread (not you considering your take seems similar to mine) believe he's had.  He's on another echelon above Alex Smith, McNabb, etc.  But the Colts are building him up like he's in the elite Brady top 5 class which does not reflect his career IMO albeit he has had 3 elite type seasons but they were more outlier seasons than the norm.

 

I think we can beat them but that one won't be easy on the road.  

 

Indy tradtionally has had a really good O line in recent years but they fell apart with injuries last year.  I like our depth better at O line than theirs.  I like our weapons better too. 

 

 

i lived near Indy for 10 yrs.  It’s a fun city.  Went to Atl last year   Probably go to Det as my son lives there.  But could still go to Indy.  
 

But I do want to see if we can be competitive before I spend money.   

[Skinsinparadise]

wrong thread but heck maybe it works here too 😀

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

I hope this works for him, IMO their backup is better than him. 

'

 

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Voice_of_Reason]

12 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

If he wasn't worth it, they should have traded him after 2015. I think that is what SM wanted, either sign him earlier in mid 2015, or trade him. SM didn't think he was that good anyway (You like that!!!). They would have gotten a first at least from somebody. (I mean, Phily got one for a recycled twice Bradbury)

Well, they would have had to have tagged then traded him, because 2015 was the last year of his contract.  

 

Kirk was a really unique situation, I'll grant that.  He had 1 year of starting, and a very good second half of the season, and a pretty "meh" first half of the season.  

 

It was a little unclear at the time exactly what he could develop into.  The problem was, it was pretty clear he was a starting QB, and those don't come free very often.  So he was going to get overpaid in the open market no matter what.

 

Couple that with the fact the 'Skins had no viable option, had just made the playoffs, they kindof needed to keep him around and not re-enter the QB wilderness just 4 years after drafting both him and Griffin.   So he was extremely highly leveraged.  

 

So, could they have tagged/traded him after 2015? I think they could have, but then they have a gaping hole at QB AGAIN.  

 

Btw, I think you pulled a VOR and meant Sam Bradford and typed Bradburry.  (Which is somewhat ironic...)

 

12 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

 

Yeah, my bad. I meant Trent Williams and types Samuels.  

 

12 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

Samuels should get his own day if anybody other than ST year after year. He was our throwback "Do Your Job" HOF type guy, playing for several Redskins teams where year after year players got paid to avoid doing their jobs, or got picked up to do jobs that they sucked at. I sometimes see HOF videos of guys like Ogden, or W Jones, or Boselli and think "we had that guy too". Except ours played for crap teams most of the time, excluding 2005 and 2007. 

I dunno.  The number of times I saw Samuels with his hands on his hips staring down at our QB lying on the ground... I was never as high on Samuels as some others.  Certainly a "Ring of Fame" player, but I'm not sure he was as good as some made him out to be.  

 

I had season tickets during this period, and that really stood out to me.  

 

I would say he was a really, really good player on a bunch of really really bad teams, but I wouldn't put him in the HOF category.  (Though, if he got in, I would celebrate it.  I have nothing against him, for sure.)

 

12 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

OK, so I'm a conspiracy theorist.  But I am encouraged, and emboldened, when every single one of them turns out to be true, eventually! 

OMG I just looked something up:  Kennedy was assassinated on November 22nd 1963.  (This I actually knew for some reason, but I confirmed it.

 

Dan Snyder's birth date is November 23, 1964!  One year and one day later!  That has to mean something.  Somehow, he killed Kennedy BEFORE he was even conceived!  

 

He's also probably knows where Jimmy Hoffa is buried.  Hoffa disappeared in 1975.  Clearly 11 year old Dan took out the teamsters leader as part of his Machiavellian plan to take over the world.

[Skinsinparadise]

I read some of that NY Times story, wow.  So his lawyers case is that some stuff happened but it was consensual and there is nothing wrong with having "happy endings'" after massages because supposedly they are perfectly normal to do. 

 

 

 

[SkinsFTW]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I read some of that NY Times story, wow.  So his lawyers case is that some stuff happened but it was consensual and there is nothing wrong with having "happy endings'" after massages because supposedly they are perfectly normal to do. 

 

Dude is filthy rich. Wasn't that a Robert Kraft thing too? Maybe he'll end up on the Patriots. They could reminisce. 

[mistertim]

13 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yep.  According to Mike Jones, Kyle told him directly they offered their first for Kirk, which was the 2nd pick in the draft. If I recall that was the 2017 off season.  Jay mentioned multiple times they could have gotten a first and change for Kirk that off season.

 

 

Jesus Christ.

 

If that's true and it was the 2017 draft...we could have had Mahomes.

[SkinsFTW]

4 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Jesus Christ.

 

If that's true and it was the 2017 draft...we could have had Mahomes.

 

Naa, they would have picked Watson and he would have found massage parlors the same year. 

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Jesus Christ.

 

If that's true and it was the 2017 draft...we could have had Mahomes.

 

It's definitely true.  Mike Jones said he got it directly from Kyle at the time.  Another beat guy said the same, forgetting which one.  And then Jay himself said they got that offer, of a first and change, he suggested if they pushed they'd have gotten their first the following year too.

 

No one can tell me Bruce Allen played the Kirk situation fine, I think the whole thing was a debacle.  For those who wanted Kirk to stay then they could have given him for that 24 million on the table when that deal could have been had.   OK even if they wanted it fully guaranteed they gave Alex plenty of guaranteed money just a year later. 

 

And for those who wanted Kirk, gone, then they could have traded him for a ransom.  A lose, lose no matter what the perspective was on Kirk.  One dude on that FO thread would constantly argue with me about the compensation saying it was more than fine for Kirk, as to the third round comp pick and insisted they couldn't get any more than that.  But aside from him (who obviously was dead wrong) even the Kirk haters on that thread admitted they got peanuts back for Kirk, and Bruce messed up on that front.

 

But forgetting Kirk, its just a pattern under Dan.  We don't get compensation for our guys under Dan.  The Eagles on the other hand are like on steroids as for how obsessed they are for getting compensation during that same period.  They got high picks for McNabb, Kolb, Bradford.  Heck they got more for AJ Feeley than we did for Kirk.  Some wonder why Philly has been so much better than us in the last 20 years or so, this is an underrated part of it. 

 

https://www.phillyvoice.com/look-back-past-eagles-quarterback-trades/

A look back at the Eagles' rich, recent history of trading quarterbacks

In fact, since 2010, they have traded Donovan McNabb, Kevin Kolb, Foles himself, Matt Barkley, Mark Sanchez, and Sam Bradford.

While the Eagles certainly won't get anything remotely close to the "two 1's and two 2's" a few national guys were suggesting for Foles, is it possible that the Eagles could get a first round pick in return? Many don't think that even that compensation is realistic. While I wouldn't completely disagree, it's fair to note that the Eagles always (Chip years aside) have maximized value for their quarterbacks.

Let's look at all the Eagles' quarterback trades over the last 15 years, a span during which they have traded a quarterback roughly every other year:

Edited June 8, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[formerly4skins]

25 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

Naa, they would have picked Watson and he would have found massage parlors the same year. 

 

He def would have...there are jack-shacks all over the place in nova.

 

At least that's what a friend told me. 

[88Comrade2000]

1 hour ago, redskinss said:

My biggest fear with Wentz is that he'll have a resurgent year, we'll give him a big extension and then he'll revert back to the guy who got kicked out of town the last two years.

Consistency has always been one of his biggest problems and even if he has a year close to what he had in 2017 I don't see him doing it year in and year out.

 

But if he has a good year this year we'll cross that (see if he can maintain it) bridge when we get to it.

 

For now it'd be nice just to have a professional level quarterback even for one year.

He isn't getting an extension in 23. 24, if he has a good second year; that's when he gets an extension.

[HigSkin]

9 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

He isn't getting an extension in 23. 24, if he has a good second year; that's when he gets an extension.

 

Given the history of the way this FO has been working contracts, I'd be surprised if they even touched Wentz's current contract.  I mean if he outperforms they have him relatively cheap for a top QB for 3 years.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

The only way they touch his contract situation is if he clearly outplays it and shows he's the future at the position.  At least, that's the only logical reason I can see for it.

[redskinss]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

The only way they touch his contract situation is if he clearly outplays it and shows he's the future at the position.  At least, that's the only logical reason I can see for it.

You're probably right, it's just a mild concern.

And even if he does play well it's not like he's grossly underpaid and will hold out or anything, that's highly unlikely. 

I'd say we're in a great position having 3 years with no commitment.

[oraphus]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I hope this works for him, IMO their backup is better than him. 

'

 

 

Hope is he goes down early and often playing Wash in 22

[CobraCommander]

1 minute ago, oraphus said:

Hope is he goes down early and often playing Wash in 22

He's gonna go down on Bofa.

[ntotoro]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I hope this works for him, IMO their backup is better than him. 

'