The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Redskins 2021]

12 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

You're all over the place.

 

You said you want a top 15 vet QB. You don't get one of them easily. The first problem with that is one has to be available.

 

If you get a rookie and somehow acquire a top 15 vet you're looking at the Zappe range of QB as a rookie, not the higher end of the spectrum. 

The team is all over the place.

I think if we go for a top rookie we rite next year off and have to trade up.

I think we should try to get a top Qb Wilson, Watson, and Rodgers but that is unlikely to happen.

 I think we can get Jimmy G for a second round pick redo his deal for 3 or 4 years. I think if Carr is available we could get him for high price trade for 3 or 4 years. With either of these two QB we would have above average play.

 We could sign Mariota or Trubisky for the year we may get a Tanahill turn around but don't count on it. 

I am saying the owner, gm, and coaches need to decide what this team is. I think if we draft somebody we should expect to be bad next year. 

From reading the site I get the feeling we think we are closer to winning then rebuilding if that the case we should not go with rookie.

Edited January 17, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[Jabbyrwock]

16 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

Are we half in and half out?

 

With this team, Ive been half out of my mind and half in the bag for years...so yes.

 

Also, its "right" or "write", not "rite".  Usually not a spellin' Nazi...but all this discussion of "rites" makes me think you're about to sacrifice an animal to get a quarterback.  Its just football; put the knife down and back away from the cow.

 

...go have a burger or somethin'.

[Voice_of_Reason]

From this week's games:

 

- Carr: I still don't think the Raiders would trade him unless they're getting an upgraded QB back.  He is in the last year of his deal but only has a $19M cap number.  Now, the reason they WOULD trade him would be if they know they're not going to extend him, so they want to get value for him while they have him.  Which makes some sense.  But in that case, I'm not offering 2 1sts for Carr, because then WE have to extend him.  

 

I'd still kick the tires.  He's a legitimate NFL starting QB.  We don't have one of those on the roster.  And we need one.  If Carr was on this team exactly as it was constituted this year, we win at least 2, if not 3 more games, are at worst 9-8, maybe 10-7, and almost certainly in the playoffs.  And that's with a defense that couldn't get it's act together.  

 

- Garoppolo: Sigh.  I just don't like Jimmy G.  There's something about him.  But he also is a QB who deserves one of the 32 starting jobs.  He is definitely going to be available.  What would it take to get him?  I dunno.  I think that might depend a little on what transpires the rest of the playoffs.  But damn i if he didn't have 2 "almost cost the 49ers the game" moments:

1. The Trent Williams illegal-shift penalty was 100% on Jimmy G. He signaled for Trent to switch sides, then didn't wait for him to get set before snapping the ball.  WHY they motioned Trent, I don't know, and I don't care.  They did.  An NFL team should be able to pull that off without getting a penalty 10,000 times out of 10,000, especially with the clocked stopped coming out of a TO.  It's not like trying to execute some flea-flicker to hook-and-ladder play.  Guy stands up, runs to the other side of the line, sets, wait 1 second, snap the ball.  Jimmy didn't wait.  That's on him.

 

2. The INT was horrendous.  It was like the only thing you CAN'T do. Even just falling down would have been a perfectly acceptable result of the play.

 

So, he's not a world beater.  But he's miles better than anything we have.  If he's the best we can do, then I'd take him.  He made some really good plays yesterday.  

 

Also, Wilson's quote was "wants to explore places which will put him in better position to win a championship."  I'm not sure we qualify, so that probably excludes him.

 

I am not considering Watson an option until his legal problems are settled.  I'm jus removing him from the conversation. Rodgers is staying where he is, is my bet.

 

I think of the possible trade targets would be:

 

1. Rodgers (not happening, staying in GB most likely)

2. Russ (not happening, either staying with a new HC or going somewhere who can win now.)

3. Carr (I don't think he's being traded, but he might be more realistic.)

4. Garoppolo (He's the most realistic because he's going to be available.

5. Goff (He would be an upgrade, but now you're starting to talk about Goff + drafting a guy. You can't sell me he's the answer.)

6. Wentz (If they did this they would HAVE to draft a guy, and Wentz is just the better Mitch/Teddy/Marcus bridge guy who you don't have to give up much to get. And I DO think he's better than those guys.  But he's also a cantankerous ass hat.  

 

I kindof think if Russ goes anywhere, it's Pittsburgh to replace Ben or Las Vegas in a swap with Carr.  Pittsburgh needs a QB.  And they have the tradition, respected coach, and a playoff team.  (Though, they are going to need to completely re-tool a lot of the roster).  

 

If Watson gets traded, I could see him landing in NY if they get Flores. I don't think Pitt would touch Watson.  Carolina might,.  Again, this is all assuming his legal troubles are behind him.  

 

Personally, I would LOVE Watson to end up in Carolina.  As many teams ahead of us in the draft need to get QBs so we don't compete against them in the draft.  

 

 

[MrJL]

12 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

1) It's not the case.

 

2) "Get a vet" is easy to say, hard to execute.

 

I'm not the draftnik, but I've seen plenty of people saying this is a bad year for QBs for most of the year and only changing it up as we approach draft time, the time when teams need fans to believe there's some immediate hope in the future and ratings need it.  It feels more like justification.  Like when people were convincing themselves Ryan Nassib would be a first round QB

[KDawg]

Just now, MrJL said:

 

I'm not the draftnik, but I've seen plenty of people saying this is a bad year for QBs for most of the year and only changing it up as we approach draft time, the time when teams need fans to believe there's some immediate hope in the future and ratings need it.  It feels more like justification.  Like when people were convincing themselves Ryan Nassib would be a first round QB

 

Where is the justification? I've been saying it's a decent class for months now, well before this.

 

I thought VERY low of Trask last year. Think less of him now. This isn't justification or convincing. He just stinks. 

[MrJL]

Just now, KDawg said:

 

Where is the justification? I've been saying it's a decent class for months now, well before this.

 

I thought VERY low of Trask last year. Think less of him now. This isn't justification or convincing. He just stinks. 

 

well, I'm saying this because it seems like people are starting to agree with you at a certain time, more than that you're saying it

[KDawg]

Just now, MrJL said:

 

well, I'm saying this because it seems like people are starting to agree with you at a certain time, more than that you're saying it

 

I think I should be clear here:

 

I don't think this is some amazing class.

 

I think it's FAR better than 2019.

 

It's not 2020. 

 

There is no "can't miss" prospect in this class. So it has a much lower ceiling than other classes. But where I think this class is going to make it solid is that I think it's floor is fairly decent. There are a number of prospects that can wind up being "decent" (think Jimmy G/Derek Carr vicinity... hopefully minus the patented Jimmy G turnover in a big spot a game trait). 1 or 2 may wind up being high end quarterbacks.

 

Last year's class has a lot of high ceilings... Lawrence, Fields, Lance, Wilson for instance.

 

I thought Lance and Wilson had fairly low floors. I think Fields has a floor just above them. I think Lawrence probably has the highest floor of that group (though I still think his ceiling may be below all of them).

 

I don't know if that makes sense to you or not as far as I'm explaining it. But I'm not trying to sit here and pretend this is a star studded can't miss class. It has a lot of issues. But it's not a bad class, in my opinion. 

[Redskins 2021]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

I think I should be clear here:

 

I don't think this is some amazing class.

 

I think it's FAR better than 2019.

 

It's not 2020. 

 

There is no "can't miss" prospect in this class. So it has a much lower ceiling than other classes. But where I think this class is going to make it solid is that I think it's floor is fairly decent. There are a number of prospects that can wind up being "decent" (think Jimmy G/Derek Carr vicinity... hopefully minus the patented Jimmy G turnover in a big spot a game trait). 1 or 2 may wind up being high end quarterbacks.

 

Last year's class has a lot of high ceilings... Lawrence, Fields, Lance, Wilson for instance.

 

I thought Lance and Wilson had fairly low floors. I think Fields has a floor just above them. I think Lawrence probably has the highest floor of that group (though I still think his ceiling may be below all of them).

 

I don't know if that makes sense to you or not as far as I'm explaining it. But I'm not trying to sit here and pretend this is a star studded can't miss class. It has a lot of issues. But it's not a bad class, in my opinion. 

Can any of them start day 1 on a playoff team? 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

Can any of them start day 1 on a playoff team? 

 

That's really, really hard to predict.

 

I think Howell is the most pro ready.

 

I think it's possible Willis has a higher ceiling.

 

Pickett will largely depend on how he performs this offseason.

 

Corral MAY be able to, though I think he'll have an adjustment period. 

 

My gut says sure, any of them could start a playoff game. But unless everything goes right they are probably one and done in season 1.

 

If you mean lead the team to the playoffs I think that's where Howell and Pickett (pending) are most suited.

 

Though I think Corral probably could in year one if he gets comfortable quickly.

Edited January 17, 2022 by KDawg

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

I think I should be clear here:

 

I don't think this is some amazing class.

 

I think it's FAR better than 2019.

 

It's not 2020. 

 

There is no "can't miss" prospect in this class. So it has a much lower ceiling than other classes. But where I think this class is going to make it solid is that I think it's floor is fairly decent. There are a number of prospects that can wind up being "decent" (think Jimmy G/Derek Carr vicinity... hopefully minus the patented Jimmy G turnover in a big spot a game trait). 1 or 2 may wind up being high end quarterbacks.

 

Last year's class has a lot of high ceilings... Lawrence, Fields, Lance, Wilson for instance.

 

I thought Lance and Wilson had fairly low floors. I think Fields has a floor just above them. I think Lawrence probably has the highest floor of that group (though I still think his ceiling may be below all of them).

 

I don't know if that makes sense to you or not as far as I'm explaining it. But I'm not trying to sit here and pretend this is a star studded can't miss class. It has a lot of issues. But it's not a bad class, in my opinion. 

 

I am pretty close to the same view.  

 

Maybe the best way for me to put it is:

 

Just like the idea of landing an Aaron Rodgers is a fantasy -- ditto is taking the top QB who is head and shoulders over the pack at least in theory.   We are never in position to take the Joe Burrows, Andrew Luck, Kyler Murray types.   Has this team ever had the top pick in the draft ever?  So I don't lament that there isn't a Kyler Murray type in this draft considering we aren't getting that guy anyway.

 

So we don't really shop in the Tiffany's aisle.   We typically shop in the Macy's aisle.  And ironically there are IMO more goods in the Macy's aisle than typically or at the least an average amount.  

 

So when some degrade this draft class, its typically that hey there is nothing that makes the Tiffany's category in theory.  And that's unusual.    But considering the aisle we typically shop isn't that aisle anyway, this draft IMO is more than fine for our purposes 

 

 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Mooka]

19 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

I'm not the draftnik, but I've seen plenty of people saying this is a bad year for QBs for most of the year and only changing it up as we approach draft time, the time when teams need fans to believe there's some immediate hope in the future and ratings need it.  It feels more like justification.  Like when people were convincing themselves Ryan Nassib would be a first round QB

 

 

Justify drafting anything besides a QB for this team.

 

We drafted the top defensive player in the draft, We have a D-Line of first round picks and then went LB.

 

With all those guys playing we had the worst defense in the league and couldn't stop anything. 

 

Draft a QB. 

 

Draft another one in 2023. 

[Redskins 2021]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am pretty close to the same view.  

 

Maybe the best way for me to put it is:

 

Just like the idea of landing an Aaron Rodgers is a fantasy -- ditto is taking the top QB who is head and shoulders over the pack at least in theory.   We are never in position to take the Joe Burrows, Andrew Luck, Kyler Murray types.   Has this team ever had the top pick in the draft ever?  So I don't lament that there isn't a Kyler Murray type in this draft considering we aren't getting that guy anyway.

 

So we don't really shop in the Tiffany's aisle.   We typically shop in the Macy's aisle.  And ironically there are more goods in the Macy's asile than typically or at the least an average amount.  

 

So when some degrade this draft class, its typically that hey there is nothing that makes the Tiffany's category in theory.  And that's unusual.    But considering the aisle we typically shop, this draft IMO is more than fine. 

 

 

 

The last top Qb we drafted was Heath Shuler at 3 spot in 1994. That was the guy Gus Frerotte bet out for starting spot. Seem like that is when the great redskins  teams of the 1980 and early 1990 ended. 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Redskins 2021 said:

The last top Qb we drafted was Heath Shuler at 3 spot in 1994. That was the guy Gus Frerotte bet out for starting spot. Seem like that is when the great redskins  teams of the 1980 and early 1990 ended. 

 

Well, we don't have to worry about anything great being ended.

[kingdaddy]

4 hours ago, tomwvr said:

I thought TH was 1 million next year

You're probably correct....I know he's a really low number. 

[Renegade7]

15 hours ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

Big Ben was accused of rape and sexual assault in two different cases. Both cases settled out of court. Steelers didn’t take any moral high ground, they didn’t send him packing. The holy grail Steelers, lol. 
He won two Super Bowls in 6 years, the team didn’t blink an eye. It is however part of his story when it’s all said and done. As it will be for Watson. As I write this, Al Micheal’s is talking about him being a first ballot hall of famer. It’s funny the way time, memory, character, winning, success, and morality work. 

If the cases are settled, he’s willing to go to DC, and no criminal charges pending why the heck not pursue it.  I totally understand peoples apprehension or stand, on him being a crap human. I agree with the sentiment, but wouldn’t let it stop me from trying to put together the best team possible. 
 

He’d be at the top of my list.

I’d make every attempt to do it.
All that said I don’t think we do it. 

 

I don't believe I can be convinced that trading for Watson is the right thing to do in all the context I and others have brought up.

 

I can be convinced to live with it if we do it, and big reason why is what you said in this post.

 

We will get killed by the media at first, sports and non-sports, but if we start winning, it will come up less and less as time goes on.  It's messed it, but it's true.

 

Lord have mercy if we keep losing, though...

[kingdaddy]

14 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

That's really, really hard to predict.

 

I think Howell is the most pro ready.

 

I think it's possible Willis has a higher ceiling.

 

Pickett will largely depend on how he performs this offseason.

 

Corral MAY be able to, though I think he'll have an adjustment period. 

 

My gut says sure, any of them could start a playoff game. But unless everything goes right they are probably one and done in season 1.

 

If you mean lead the team to the playoffs I think that's where Howell and Pickett (pending) are most suited.

 

Though I think Corral probably could in year one if he gets comfortable quickly.

For those who don't believe Heinicke is the long term answer, or even short term answer, I get it. But saying Jimmy G. is miles ahead of TH as a starting QB I don't agree with. I believe TH will be an improved QB next year for two big reasons: 1). He's likely to have more talent around him then he had to work with this season (assuming better health for Samuel, Thomas). 

2). He got a full season to learn the position in real game speed/circumstances which gives him a full offseason to work on his weaknesses and learn from his mistakes. 

Can't help but think about Rich Gannon when I think about the potential growth of TH. Heinicke will get better, I have no doubt about that.

Given how cheap we have TH for next year there's no way I'm dealing assets to SF for Jimmy G. and paying him whatever he makes. Yes, I'd bring in a free agent vet reclamation guy and yes I'd study the draft hard for QB's but I just don't see Jimmy G being the answer here or anywhere else. Again, just my opinion and I respect all of yours. 

[FuriousD]

18 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

The last top Qb we drafted was Heath Shuler at 3 spot in 1994. That was the guy Gus Frerotte bet out for starting spot. Seem like that is when the great redskins  teams of the 1980 and early 1990 ended. 

RG3 called and said he's not chopped liver and would like to be included in your post.  I respectfully disagreed with him, for what it's worth..

[Redskins 2021]

Just now, FuriousD said:

RG3 called and said he's not chopped liver and would like to be included in your post.  I respectfully disagreed with him, for what it's worth..

 Forgot about RG3. Good call

[KDawg]

13 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

For those who don't believe Heinicke is the long term answer, or even short term answer, I get it. But saying Jimmy G. is miles ahead of TH as a starting QB I don't agree with. I believe TH will be an improved QB next year for two big reasons: 1). He's likely to have more talent around him then he had to work with this season (assuming better health for Samuel, Thomas). 

2). He got a full season to learn the position in real game speed/circumstances which gives him a full offseason to work on his weaknesses and learn from his mistakes. 

Can't help but think about Rich Gannon when I think about the potential growth of TH. Heinicke will get better, I have no doubt about that.

Given how cheap we have TH for next year there's no way I'm dealing assets to SF for Jimmy G. and paying him whatever he makes. Yes, I'd bring in a free agent vet reclamation guy and yes I'd study the draft hard for QB's but I just don't see Jimmy G being the answer here or anywhere else. Again, just my opinion and I respect all of yours. 

Why are you trying to convince me about trading for Jimmy G? I wouldn’t trade for him. I think he’s better than TH, though.

 

I think we can upgrade TH fairly easily in the offseason. Heinicke won’t get better unless he finds a way to increase arm strength and pass velocity. That is what is holding him back. Not necessarily processing. He makes some bad decisions but every QB does. A lot of his turnovers stem from the ball taking too long to get to the receiver.

[veteranskinsfan]

Jalon Hurts sure likes Taylor Heinke to me.  Both are  good number 2 quarterbacks but not ready for prime time.  Eagles have 3 first round picks so they will be going after

another quarterback.  Their GM Howie Roseman has a 50-50 chance that he will pick the wrong guy.  Eagle fans still crying about him picking Jalen Raeger in the first round.

Raeger fumbled punt yesterday.

[ExoDus84]

10 minutes ago, FuriousD said:

RG3 called and said he's not chopped liver

 

If you watch its film, Chopped Liver actually has better pocket presence than RG3 did.

[rumplestilskin]

2 minutes ago, veteranskinsfan said:

Jalon Hurts sure likes Taylor Heinke to me.  Both are  good number 2 quarterbacks but not ready for prime time.  Eagles have 3 first round picks so they will be going after

another quarterback.  Their GM Howie Roseman has a 50-50 chance that he will pick the wrong guy.  Eagle fans still crying about him picking Jalen Raeger in the first round.

Raeger fumbled punt yesterday.

Hurts differs from Taylor due to his elite running ability. Taylor is good but Hurts breaks ankles. I think the future is bright for him but will take time to grow as a passer.

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

17 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

For those who don't believe Heinicke is the long term answer, or even short term answer, I get it.

 

Just wondering if there is something TH/Skins can do in the off season to get some strength in his arm? I think TH would be willing to work but what conditioning drills are there to improve in that area....OR...is he pretty much locked in physically where he is.

[rumplestilskin]

3 hours ago, Rdskns2000 said:

Yep. We have to draft a rookie also, if We sign them.  Thing is, if Ron ad his gm crew sign them; would they still draft a QB?  Or punt for the future? Stay tuned.

Cousins is 45 million cap hit. That isn't happening. Minny will not find a team to take on all or part off that salary.

Cousins would need a contract extension and restructuring as part of the deal. We all know how that goes with him. I dont know about him as an option because of how he left but wouldn't be devistated if were back. He almost single handedly ruined the Vikings with his big contract though.

[MrJL]

44 minutes ago, Mooka said:

 

 

Justify drafting anything besides a QB for this team.

 

We drafted the top defensive player in the draft, We have a D-Line of first round picks and then went LB.

 

With all those guys playing we had the worst defense in the league and couldn't stop anything. 

 

Draft a QB. 

 

Draft another one in 2023. 

 

we lost two of those DL for significant chunks of the season and we have two competent LB for three starting spots and backups.  I'd be quite happy to go LB again this year