The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[CjSuAvE22]

This team doesn’t need a qb Sam can play…. I don’t understand why we need to take a quarterback….take the best tackle you can get and sure up the position for the next ten years. In fact I hope we end up and 2nd so the gm can trade down and receive a haul for that pick.

Edited December 10, 2023 by CjSuAvE22

[sjinhan]

5 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

This team doesn’t need a qb Sam can play…. I don’t understand why we need to take a quarterback….take the best tackle you can get and sure up the position for the next ten years. In fact I hope we end up and 2nd so the gm can trade down and receive a haul for that pick.

The best scenario will be if we trade that pick for kings ransom for someone trading up for a QB then load up on young and cheap talent.  
 

Getting that LT of the future is great but we basically need to replace all 5 positions on the line

[Redskins 2021]

6 minutes ago, sjinhan said:

The best scenario will be if we trade that pick for kings ransom for someone trading up for a QB then load up on young and cheap talent.  
 

Getting that LT of the future is great but we basically need to replace all 5 positions on the line

I think that is the move. So many holes on this team.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

To my point a few days ago about the dearth of OLine talent in the NFL. A spotty (at best) line is pretty much guaranteed for a young QB nowadays 

 

 

[Stone Cold]

10 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

To my point a few days ago about the dearth of OLine talent in the NFL. A spotty (at best) line is pretty much guaranteed for a young QB nowadays 

 

 

Legit question…is it really talent or perhaps the OL hasn’t kept up with the offensive scheme changes?  I wonder bc I legit don’t recognize these offenses like I used to. The game has definitely passed me by lol

[MrJL]

1 hour ago, sjinhan said:

The best scenario will be if we trade that pick for kings ransom for someone trading up for a QB then load up on young and cheap talent.  
 

Getting that LT of the future is great but we basically need to replace all 5 positions on the line

 

Cosmi is servicable, I'd be cool with switching Leno to the right side and Stromberg might be something

[Rufus T Firefly]

22 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

To my point a few days ago about the dearth of OLine talent in the NFL. A spotty (at best) line is pretty much guaranteed for a young QB nowadays 

 

 

I just saw that tweet. 

 

Interesting point. I can't say that he's wrong. 

[Koolblue13]

I hope Billicheck gets canned and we can steal their OL coach.

 

I think that's the biggest issue.

 

NFL is changing to this super quick, motions, trickery **** on offense and there isn't really any OL coaches for it like there are old school zone or man coaches. That evolution hasn't caught up yet. I think it's why the Dolphins don't beat good teams.

[method man]

5 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

Cosmi is servicable, I'd be cool with switching Leno to the right side and Stromberg might be something

Cosmi is more than serviceable. He is a legit good guard who could still become great. Keep his performance in mind given who he has playing next to him.

 

Leno apparently struggles on the right side and he doesn’t have the weight to play guard at 305 except a zone scheme

 

Stromberg is a question mark. Can’t count on him to start next year

[Rufus T Firefly]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

I hope Billicheck gets canned and we can steal their OL coach.

 

I think that's the biggest issue.

 

NFL is changing to this super quick, motions, trickery **** on offense and there isn't really any OL coaches for it like there are old school zone or man coaches. That evolution hasn't caught up yet. I think it's why the Dolphins don't beat good teams.

Have you watched their OnLine this year? Nothing about that group makes me go "Ooh, how can we get their coach?"

[method man]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

I hope Billicheck gets canned and we can steal their OL coach.

 

I think that's the biggest issue.

 

NFL is changing to this super quick, motions, trickery **** on offense and there isn't really any OL coaches for it like there are old school zone or man coaches. That evolution hasn't caught up yet. I think it's why the Dolphins don't beat good teams.

A lot of good OL coaches will be collateral damage and will be available this offseason. The Bears’ and Chargers’ OL coaches seem to have both done a good job with the resources at their disposal

[MrJL]

14 minutes ago, method man said:

 

Stromberg is a question mark. Can’t count on him to start next year

 

so is anyone we draft

[Skinsinparadise]

On 12/9/2023 at 6:14 PM, zCommander said:

If I am the GM, I wouldn't get a QB in the 1st round because I want to come in and start running and not crawling. Howell gives me the best chance to hit the ground running. This team is not in rebuild but in update mode. This team can be easily in the playoffs next year if done right. 

 

I felt this way as recent as a few weeks ago.  It's what i expected as a slam dunk scenario before they looked like they were picking outside the top 5.

 

I've changed my mind some since.  4 reasons.

 

A.  This roster is looking worse than i thought.  We are really a crappy team.  I still think they can rebuild this quickly but it looks more difficult than I originally thought

 

B.  Howell was on an up trajectory but has stalled in recent weeks

 

C.  Daniels continued emergence gives them an intriguing option. 

 

D.  Looks like they might be able to get one of the top 3 QBs without trading up

 

 Especially with Harris comments of wanting to build a great team for the long term and there is no cheat code for that -- I get while all the beat guys expect this new regime to weigh this QB decision versus punting on it.

 

Picking in the mid first and taking Penix or Nix isn't at least on the surface exciting let alone knowing if they are better than Howell.  But for argument's sake if Daniels is the next Lamar type, that's a different scene.

 

And while i previously thought look try to get good fast because Howell is likely a good QB if you give him help -- let alone you only got him on the cheap for two more years so carpe diem.   But Jayden at his best is electric.  You got him for 5 years on the cheap.  And he's the type who would sell tickets as a bonus.

 

I don't think this is an easy slam dunk decision.  I don't envy the GM because if he gets this wrong -- by running this back or not running this back with Howell, he will and should get roasted for it.  It's a big decision for this organization and he can't blow this IMO.  Again assuming we pick top 5 where its in play.  

Edited December 11, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[FootballZombie]

I'd say the advent of the mobile QBs, especially in the college level, has greatly changed how OLs are taught, developed and greatly changes the play-by-play opportunities for practice and growth they face.

 

Back when 99% of QBs were statues, the OLs job was much more straightforward and there were things that a blocker could set his watch to in regards to what was going on behind him, which makes controlling whats in front of you easier.

[Commander202]

We just can’t say no to Caleb Williams if he’s available.

[88Comrade2000]

3 hours ago, Commander202 said:

We just can’t say no to Caleb Williams if he’s available.

But he might say no to you.  He’s another prima Donna and if he doesn’t get drafted where he likes; he will refuse to play for that team.

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I felt this way as recent as a few weeks ago.  It's what i expected as a slam dunk scenario before they looked like they were picking outside the top 5.

 

I've changed my mind some since.  4 reasons.

 

A.  This roster is looking worse than i thought.  We are really a crappy team.  I still think they can rebuild this quickly but it looks more difficult than I originally thought

 

B.  Howell was on an up trajectory but has stalled in recent weeks

 

C.  Daniels continued emergence gives them an intriguing option. 

 

D.  Looks like they might be able to get one of the top 3 QBs without trading up

 

 Especially with Harris comments of wanting to build a great team for the long term and there is no cheat code for that -- I get while all the beat guys expect this new regime to weigh this QB decision versus punting on it.

 

Picking in the mid first and taking Penix or Nix isn't at least on the surface exciting let alone knowing if they are better than Howell.  But for argument's sake if Daniels is the next Lamar type, that's a different scene.

 

And while i previously thought look try to get good fast because Howell is likely a good QB if you give him help -- let alone you only got him on the cheap for two more years so carpe diem.   But Jayden at his best is electric.  You got him for 5 years on the cheap.  And he's the type who would sell tickets as a bonus.

 

I don't think this is an easy slam dunk decision.  I don't envy the GM because if he gets this wrong -- by running this back or not running this back with Howell, he will and should get roasted for it.  It's a big decision for this organization and he can't blow this IMO.  Again assuming we pick top 5 where its in play.  

The choice of qb will define Josh’s first hires at Gm and coach.  If they botch this, coach is gone for sure.  The Gm could also be gone if they botch this.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

 

The choice of qb will define Josh’s first hires at Gm and coach.  If they botch this, coach is gone for sure.  The Gm could also be gone if they botch this.

 

Agree.  It's going to be a big time decision. 

 

I am not even saying what they should do.  Not even once have I said, this is the call I'd make.  I simply am saying, its clearly on the table and its a big decision.  Am surprised this bothers some people.  For 1 it feels super obvious.  #2, anyone who wants this call to be off the table -- doesn't that feel very Dan Snyderish like to do that? -- having a preconception and just sticking with it regardless?

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I certainly don’t envy the new guys position.  It’s a lot easier move to make when it’s obvious, and how things have setup for Sam, it’s anything but obvious.

 

Our guys have clearly made their vacation plans and we face good defenses through seasons end.  This is likely going to be a very tough stretch for Sam in pleading his case that we shouldn’t draft a QB with our first pick.

 

Right now, if I had to bet - I’d bet we draft a guy and trade Sam.

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I certainly don’t envy the new guys position.  It’s a lot easier move to make when it’s obvious, and how things have setup for Sam, it’s anything but obvious.

 

Our guys have clearly made their vacation plans and we face good defenses through seasons end.  This is likely going to be a very tough stretch for Sam in pleading his case that we shouldn’t draft a QB with our first pick.

 

Right now, if I had to bet - I’d bet we draft a guy and trade Sam.

 

I am not sure what they do.  But I would be shocked if they don't pore over these QBs with a fine tooth and comb. 

 

If they do draft a QB i don't think its off the table that both are here.  I know there is a camp here who hate the idea of having 2 QBs -- Brees and Philip Rivers style for a year but I could see that happening, too.  Sam is a mature dude who can likely handle it.    

 

Some coaches have said they know if they got the goods or a bust with a young QB after a few weeks of camp, typically.  So its a way to hedge your bets.  

 

Back to Sam.  Until the last two weeks, I saw that they had the easiest defense DVOA schedule in the NFL.  But starting with the Dallas game it got hard.  He has a tough road still left with th Jets, Dallas again, SF.  If this offense stalls and his upper trajector from weeks back continues to stall -- I do think it increases the odds that at a minimum they look at QB in the draft.

 

As to "roster building" as Ron likes to define it.  It's an interesing scenario.  With Sam, if he's the right guy you can likely build this roster up this off season and become a contender.  But how much of a contender?  Feels like Ron did an even crappier job than even I thought he did during the off season as I watch this season unfold.   So for me contender would be a wildcard -- the Dan Snyder era of a contender, 9-8 or 10-7 and one and done in the playoffs.  And then 2025 maybe you have a shot for bigger.  But after that Howell's cheap contract runs out.   So the window isn't big.   A new QB we'd have on the cheap for 5 years not just 2.

 

I can make arguments either way.  But I don't think its some easy no brainer decision.  Now if Howell lights up Dallas, the Jets, SF -- that would make the decision much easier.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[method man]

On Sam, look at the NFL.com scouting report on him two years ago. The strengths and weaknesses are totally on point. Never thought about Sam’s shorter arms hurting his launch angle. For context, Lamar and Mahomes are around the same height but their arm lengths are 3 inches longer than Sam’s

 

We know he has improved his footwork and has a better idea of how to attack NFL defenses vs two years ago but I’d argue his weaknesses from the scouting report are still weaknesses. 

Edited December 11, 2023 by method man

[MartinC]

On 12/10/2023 at 8:35 AM, Going Commando said:

 

He's got a point about it changing the leverage reads though. You wouldn't be able to read leverage well until kind of a while after the snap, instead of getting a much firmer picture of it pre snap with a static release.  Those leverage reads are key to making your decisions on where to throw too.

 

Things that change the picture for the defense can be a double edged sword because they change the picture for you too.

Fair. Thats part of why Peyton Manning didn’t like using motion. 

3 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I certainly don’t envy the new guys position.  It’s a lot easier move to make when it’s obvious, and how things have setup for Sam, it’s anything but obvious.

 

Our guys have clearly made their vacation plans and we face good defenses through seasons end.  This is likely going to be a very tough stretch for Sam in pleading his case that we shouldn’t draft a QB with our first pick.

 

Right now, if I had to bet - I’d bet we draft a guy and trade Sam.

I don’t think it’s a lock we trade Sam if we do draft a QB high. 
 

if we draft someone it’s probably because he’s struggles the next few games against some tough defenses. That probably weakens his trade value.

 

He on a rookie deal and could be the primary backup or insurance policy in case the guy we draft is not ready or struggles. 
 

I still think most likely outcome is we draft a LT and Sam gets another year to show he’s the long term guy behind a better line and with better coaching. 

[Going Commando]

16 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Fair. Thats part of why Peyton Manning didn’t like using motion. 

 

That makes sense.  He wouldn't need motion to dissect the whole field and play several moves ahead.  Must be nice to call an offense for a chess grandmaster QB.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Sad news, Sam has dropped to 4th in passing yards.

[DJHJR86]

Just now, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Sad news, Sam has dropped to 4th in passing yards.

 

Also 22nd in QBR behind Fields now.

[Warhead36]

19 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Also 22nd in QBR behind Fields now.

Honestly though, going into the season we'd probably take 22nd because we'd work under the assumption that the supporting cast would have been a lot better. With last year's defense and WR play, a QB 22nd in QBR probably has us at 7+ wins right now.