The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

4 minutes ago, method man said:

T

T?

[DJHJR86]

Keim was on Sheehan's show this morning and said that the coaching staff has come to terms with the flaws Wentz has, that they can't coach out of him.  "Decision making" was mentioned.  Not trying to play hero ball.  

[Warhead36]

3 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

Keim was on Sheehan's show this morning and said that the coaching staff has come to terms with the flaws Wentz has, that they can't coach out of him.  "Decision making" was mentioned.  Not trying to play hero ball.  

How are they just now figuring this out? There are 5+ years of film on him. 

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

How are they just now figuring this out? There are 5+ years of film on him. 

I imagine it's because every coach thinks he can get the best out of a player. It's why players like Sam Darnold and Baker Mayfield stick around probably longer than they should. 

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

How are they just now figuring this out? There are 5+ years of film on him. 

 

Ikr, was the plan to fix him and freak out if they couldn't?

 

If they plan was jus to accept what he was because it was the best we could get, that would be more understandable.

 

Did they factor him getting hit like a pinata all game into their calculations?

 

"Why can't we jus take him to Poke' Day Care? Does anyone have any Rare Candies we can give him?"

 

 

[NickyJ]

17 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

oes it really matter that I was practically begging this team to trade down in 2020 so we could trade up in 2021 if we didn't believe in drafting anyone except Burrow?

 

Rather have Zach Wilson then Wentz right now, who nows what kinda package we coulda put together if that was the plan.

 

If you want to argue there's nothing we could've done to prevent our current QB situation, that's fine, you and I aren't paid millions to figure it out, Ron is.

So your premise is that the team should have traded away from a DE that the entire NFL thought was a slam dunk pick, all so that they could be in prime position to draft whatever the leftovers were from the Trevor Lawrence 1st overall pick? And the leftover that you headline with is the dude who's thrown more interceptions than touchdowns?

 

lmao

  

16 minutes ago, method man said:

T

Edited October 11, 2022 by NickyJ

[SpacePenguin]

Just now, Professor_Nutter_Butter said:

I imagine it's because every coach thinks he can get the best out of a player. It's why players like Sam Darnold and Baker Mayfield stick around probably longer than they should. 

 

It's also why coaches should not have full control over roster construction.

[DJHJR86]

19 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

How are they just now figuring this out? There are 5+ years of film on him. 

 

Because they thought they could get through to him and "fix" him.  

[Renegade7]

21 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

So your premise is that the team should have traded away from a DE that the entire NFL thought was a slam dunk pick, all so that they could be in prime position to draft whatever the leftovers were from the Trevor Lawrence 1st overall pick? And the leftover that you headline with is the dude who's thrown more interceptions than touchdowns?

 

lmao

 

Well Young isn't a slam dunk and we don't have a future QB on a rookie contract, so jokes on all of us.  Jets have a winning record plus they aren't questioning getting rid of Wilson already, look where we are 5 weeks in (1-4 and coaching staff talking about Wentz being unfixable?)

 

Honestly, I would've traded the farm to get Lawrence after trading down in 2020, that's not that insane considering we had the #2 overall pick.

 

This isn't hindsight, go look at my posts back in 2020, I was totally alone is saying we should be prioritizing QB over a potential HOF DE because how much more important QB was and we could be wrong on Young.  

 

But noooooo...he was a slam fn dunk, let's root to lose to Dallas to make sure we get him. We'll figure out a plan for the most important position in football another day...😒

 

By all means, laugh all yall want, I'm still waiting for more folks to jus admit that drafting Young and not doing everything we could to either get a QB in 2020 or trade down so we could try in 2021 was a mistake, not doubling down like there was nothing else we could've done. The obvious lesson learned here is you cannot do a rebuild without one, full stop. 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Renegade7

[NoCalMike]

(not so) Breaking News: Unless you have one of the 5(ish) best QBs in the NFL, your starting QB is going to have flaws.  They key is to recognize the flaws so you can build the roster and design a scheme around those flaws.  It isn't very complicated and this idea that anyone from the top of the organization to the the most casual fan thought in trading for Wentz they were getting a infallible QB is comical and it sounds like this is way more Rivera trying to do damage control for over-promising the progress of the roster as a whole and using the QB as a scapegoat.  Wentz isn't a mystery to any GM or coach in the NFL. 

 

You guys think Jimmy G doesn't have flaws? How about Jared Goff?  Somehow they managed to go to the Super bowl and neither would be mistaken as a top QB in the NFL.  

Edited October 11, 2022 by NoCalMike

[Redskins 2021]

 If Wentz is not going to work that is fine just make sure you get a top Qb this year. It did cost us most likely a third round pick but we needed a Qb. for the season If it worked out it would have been great but it was a long shot.  If we get a top 2 pick this will be the first year we will be able to draft a Qb with out trading tons of capital.

 

Still think it was the right move. Look at Denver they gave up all that draft capital up for Wilson and he looks worse then Wentz.  Wentz will probably play till week 10 unless things turn around. We should take a look at Howell and if does not work out get one of the top Qb available. 

 

[ThomasRoane]

52 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

Keim was on Sheehan's show this morning and said that the coaching staff has come to terms with the flaws Wentz has, that they can't coach out of him.  "Decision making" was mentioned.  Not trying to play hero ball.  

 

Wentz is deficient in decision-making pre-snap and post-snap.  You can get by being good at one and not the other.  The elite QB's are good at both.  It's largely why TB is still playing at a high level in his mid 40s.  If you're bad at both?  AND you're not a good athlete who can extend plays?  Your days as an NFL starting QB are numbered.

[zCommander]

58 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

How are they just now figuring this out? There are 5+ years of film on him. 

 

The film guy replaced all other years films with 2017. lol...

[CobraCommander]

Maybe they only chose the highlights real on Youtube. 

[Fan since a Fetus]

I think more than Wentz’s decision making is his refusal to step into throws. I am talking about when he has plenty of room to, not when the o line is in his face. Not putting your weight into throwing the ball and slinging off your back foot constantly is going to get you in accurate throws. At this point in his career, I don’t believe this is fixable. 
 

Add that to not being able to audible and you have a poor combination. I didn’t watch last game, but the game before there were a couple of  times where he could have stepped into the pocket and made a throw only to backpedal so much that he got sacked.

 

Hes a really big guy , but it seems like he has a fear of getting injured. I didn’t believe that prior to this year, but I didn’t watch too many Colts games.

 

Does he not know the offense fully yet? Is he guessing out there? Has Turner gave him too much to start this year? Turner is looking like a poor OC right now. I thought he showed promise the last couple of years. 

[Llevron]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Ikr, was the plan to fix him and freak out if they couldn't?

 

If they plan was jus to accept what he was because it was the best we could get, that would be more understandable.

 

Did they factor him getting hit like a pinata all game into their calculations?

 

"Why can't we jus take him to Poke' Day Care? Does anyone have any Rare Candies we can give him?"

 

I want to know how they actually tried to address it honestly. Cause I bet they didn't try much. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I don’t know man, to me it takes quite the audacity for Scott Turner to feel at luxury of “coming to terms with Wentz”.  
 

Wentz has the experience and resume with some success on it.  Turner has nothing, but benefit of doubt provided to him because of his dad and not having a decent QB.  If anything, Scott should have already been catering his system to Wentz vs. the other way around.  I just don’t think he even knows what that is.  The more and more I hear about Turner’s system the less I like it.  If your QB refers to it as putting his head in a blender, that’s a problem and we see it every single week.  Scott ought to stick to designing plays and hand the reigns to someone qualified to craft an offense around Wentz and call the plays.

Edited October 11, 2022 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[CobraCommander]

10 minutes ago, Fan since a Fetus said:

I think more than Wentz’s decision making is his refusal to step into throws. I am talking about when he has plenty of room to, not when the o line is in his face. Not putting your weight into throwing the ball and slinging off your back foot constantly is going to get you in accurate throws. At this point in his career, I don’t believe this is fixable. 
 

So I think part of the problem is that the interior line is so bad that he has no faith it will hold up for him to step forward. More often than not they are getting pressure with only 4 rushing. Add to that the fact that he doesn't know if the snap if going to be at his feet or somewhere else entirely and you have a recipe for disaster on every snap that makes him gun shy, i'm sure. 

[NeverSurrender]

They can blame Wentz all they want but the failure to properly field a competent O-line is a much bigger issue.  Im no huge Wentz guy but he really isn't playing bad, its just hard to step into throws when your Oline is letting free rushers crush you up the middle and cant stop a 2 man rush with 5 Olineman.  Wentz has no faith in the Oline and he shouldn't.  I think that putting Howell in is a terrible idea at least until they get a little protection.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

4 minutes ago, CobraCommander said:

So I think part of the problem is that the interior line is so bad that he has no faith it will hold up for him to step forward. More often than not they are getting pressure with only 4 rushing. Add to that the fact that he doesn't know if the snap if going to be at his feet or somewhere else entirely and you have a recipe for disaster on every snap that makes him gun shy, i'm sure. 

I’ve been in similar debates with a buddy of mine who loathes Wentz.  He will point to X play where he had room to make a play and failed as proof positive it’s not the line - it’s him.   My only counter is that the regular pressure coming hot, heavy and in a hurry up the middle has cooked him.  That’s the stuff that makes a QB hear footsteps that aren’t there and just generally sluggish.  Beyond that he’s got a center that can’t get right.  It’s easy to see why he’s so shaky.  Sure, there are the great ones who persevere through that, but obviously Wentz is not a great QB.

 

Generally speaking, I (wrongly) trusted Ron’s experience with Turner and Norwell and didn’t expect them to be so awful.  But to compound the problems further is Chase’s injury.  It’s just a recipe for disaster for a QB playing in what sounds like a complicated system that’s new to him, who also happens to have lost his legs.  Something they should have known about him prior to making the trade.  Offseason reports indicate the offensive staff was doing cartwheels over the addition of Wentz.  One would think they should have some semblance of an idea of the version of him they acquired.

[Warhead36]

36 minutes ago, Fan since a Fetus said:

I think more than Wentz’s decision making is his refusal to step into throws. I am talking about when he has plenty of room to, not when the o line is in his face. Not putting your weight into throwing the ball and slinging off your back foot constantly is going to get you in accurate throws. At this point in his career, I don’t believe this is fixable. 
 

Add that to not being able to audible and you have a poor combination. I didn’t watch last game, but the game before there were a couple of  times where he could have stepped into the pocket and made a throw only to backpedal so much that he got sacked.

 

Hes a really big guy , but it seems like he has a fear of getting injured. I didn’t believe that prior to this year, but I didn’t watch too many Colts games.

 

Does he not know the offense fully yet? Is he guessing out there? Has Turner gave him too much to start this year? Turner is looking like a poor OC right now. I thought he showed promise the last couple of years. 

Yeah his mechanics are just so consistently flawed. I don't think his decision making is even THAT bad as much as his mechanics. I get more triggered by him consistently overthrowing open receivers. The red zone throws he's trying to squeeze into tight coverage but nobody was open and we were desperate, that's gonna happen.

 

And the offensive scheme/playcalling does him no favors either.

[CommanderInTheRye]

I was going through some of my old playlists on youtube and ran across this blast from the past. 

 

Was it just 10 years ago that our future at quarterback seemed so bright and Stephen A. almost had a hairline?

 

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by CommanderInTheRye

[Warhead36]

Wow Skip called it we did end up winning 7 straight.

 

Man 2012 was fun. That's what its like having a legit QB. You're basically a contender every year. Its what Chiefs, Bills, Packers fans etc. feel EVERY season. So jealous.

[HigSkin]

9 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah his mechanics are just so consistently flawed. I don't think his decision making is even THAT bad as much as his mechanics. I get more triggered by him consistently overthrowing open receivers. The red zone throws he's trying to squeeze into tight coverage but nobody was open and we were desperate, that's gonna happen.

 

And the offensive scheme/playcalling does him no favors either.

 

Agree.  I think it was RG3 who said it but Wentz has a wide base in his throwing mechanics and if he has trash around his feet, you're going to see overthrows.  There's also been a number of analyst who've shown he really doesn't get his feet set to throw a certain direction which leaves him in an open stance.  Hence the off target throws.  

 

I guess we'll see what happens.

 

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by HigSkin

[SkinsNumberOne]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

By all means, laugh all yall want, I'm still waiting for more folks to jus admit that drafting Young and not doing everything we could to either get a QB in 2020 or trade down so we could try in 2021 was a mistake, not doubling down like there was nothing else we could've done. The obvious lesson learned here is you cannot do a rebuild without one, full stop. 

Is that the obvious lesson here?

I mean, look at the other NFC East teams? Rivera wants to say Quarterback is what divides the NFC East teams. Do you agree? The Giants, Eagles, and Cowboys are winning because teams can adapt systems and make systems win without requiring a specific Quarterback. Scott Turner's system requires all of the pieces to fit just so... otherwise.. JENGA! 

 

This failure is because the system requires far too much; Scott himself has essentially said that (but he's too stupid to understand it) in the past. It's easy to blame QBs when they don't make the "perfect decision" or the "perfect play" in a situation. Is that realistic? How many quarterbacks need to come through and perform at best average (Alex Smith) until everyone universally realizes that the OC we have needs to be replaced before any QB would have any success? Josh Allen could come here, he would be a total failure. Maholmes. You have to have other pieces in place for success, starting with an OC who knows what he's doing. I am not saying there isn't a magic formula that could make Scott's decisions work, I am just saying the odds are against it. There's plenty of data to back my statement up.